God Calling

A Freeman

Star
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
1,453
Hahaha the reincarnation hogwash is a satanic concept to the core..:D
We can almost hear satan saying- "It doesn't matter if you're a nasty person who's lived a nasty life, you won't be going to hell for it because God will give you another chance to do better by reincarnating you into another body, and another, and another".
No wonder Jesus warned us to be on our guard against satan-
"There is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies"- (John 8:42-44)
And yet you've bought into the satanic lie that you are a "good person" (i.e. that you aren't a nasty spirit-Being who has lived many nasty human lives, just like the rest of us - Ps. 53:1-3, Rom. 3:10-12).

Luke 9:54-55
9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw [this], they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elijah did?
9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what kind of spirit ye are of (Rev. 12:7-9; Matt. 8:22).

Matthew 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask Him?

You asked for proof of reincarnation in the Scriptures, and then let your lazy human (who is controlled by Satan) to keep you (the spirit-Being) from reading the mountain of evidence that's already been presented to this forum. Can you really not see that it's Satan who wants you to believe the lie that God is unfair, impatient, and without mercy, all of which go hand-in-hand with the idea that we are only given one human lifetime to get it right or burn? Can you really not see that it's Satan who has kept you from the truth?

Only the truth can set you free.
 






Tidal

Star
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
1,261
...You asked for proof of reincarnation in the Scriptures, and then let your lazy human (who is controlled by Satan) to keep you (the spirit-Being) from reading the mountain of evidence that's already been presented to this forum..

Surely it should only be necessary for you to post a few simple cast-iron verses to allegedly PROVE reincarnation rather than shunt us off to read a whole "mountain" of stuff which we regrettably usually don't have time to read, for example "Earth vs The Flying Saucers" is on TV soon and I can't miss that!
In the internet debating world we call it the "blunderbuss" style, meaning the poster fires off a big blast of verses at us to try to prove his point and expects us to wade through it, but all it does is leave us scratching our heads wondering what he's trying to say ..:D

"The more the words,the less the meaning, and how does that profit anyone?" (Ecc 6:11)


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By contrast my own posting style is the "sniper" style, using single carefully-aimed shots to prove my point..
As a great prophet once said-

"This is this!"
 






Last edited:

shankara

Veteran
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
961
If you would have taken the time to review the link that was shared, you would have seen that the point you were attempting to make wasn't missed; rather it was exposed as nonsense, because the true teachings of Buddha are in perfect agreement with the true teachings of Christ (Who is the Strait and Middle Way), neither of which remain silent about Father (God).

Unfortunately, the organized religion known as "Buddhism" doesn't come anywhere near the true teachings of Buddha any more than "Christianity" comes near the true teachings of Christ.

It is Satan (the Opposer) who wants us to remain silent about Father (The Source of All Truth). Lucifer/Satan/Iblis would like for everyone to continue to believe his lies, and all of his governments and organized religions, and most importantly that we are really smart and know better than Father how to run this world. That way Satan can continue, through our egos, to get us to help him destroy this world, and everyone in it, so we can all join him in The Fire on the Last Day.

The video and its script, found at the link below, seem to do a nice job of describing the Singularity (God), and why it MUST exist outside of time, space and motion (and why free-will and the Singularity being able to see all of eternity in the "blink of an eye" are not mutually exclusive).


There is a calm, peaceful place, inside each of us (in our minds/our true spiritual selves) that serves as a place of refuge from this world gone mad. That "eye of the storm" is the Singularity we know as God; our Heavenly Father and Creator. And that's exactly where each of us needs to return, to seek His Guidance with everything, free from human emotions, which always cloud reason and common-sense.

Psalm 46:10 Be still, and KNOW that I [am] God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.

This is the exact place that Prince Sedata searched for, and found, to become known as "the Buddha", i.e. "the Awakened or Enlightened One" (The Christ). A place where human e-motion could rage all around him and yet was powerless to influence/tempt the ego.

It's also where Prince Sedata discovered that every movement in the Universe is an effect provoked by a cause (which is why we're responsible for our own actions), and that there is no salvation without compassion for each and every other living thing.

It's a place open to any and all who choose to take refuge in it. Sadly very few do, because they refuse, of their own free-will, to learn to destroy their egos, as Prince Sedata did.

Peace (calm) be upon you.
That wasn't what I was suggesting about Buddha's apocryphal silence. I was suggesting that it wasn't a silence of "who knows?", but rather a silence of "we must keep silent about that which is beyond our comprehension", as the rest of my post pointed to. In fact to label the Ultimate Divinity "father" is to confuse the ultimate reality with the Demiurge.

The Ultimate Reality, being beyond all possibility of comprehension (and thus, to the ego, "darkness") cannot even have attributes such as "beyond space and time" applied to it, because this in itself is a determination of that which cannot be conceptually determined.

In this way I was attempting to refute your argument about predestination, although in a sense this is unnecessary because this can be rejected quite simply due to it's obvious injustice and absurdity. If the choice is already made in advance, why even bother to create a world? - this would be one way of putting it.
 






A Freeman

Star
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
1,453
That wasn't what I was suggesting about Buddha's apocryphal silence. I was suggesting that it wasn't a silence of "who knows?", but rather a silence of "we must keep silent about that which is beyond our comprehension", as the rest of my post pointed to. In fact to label the Ultimate Divinity "father" is to confuse the ultimate reality with the Demiurge.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, nor are you being honest with yourself (or, more accurately put, your "self" is deceiving you again), as evidenced by your self-contradictory statements and obvious confusion.

The Ultimate Divinity and King Ruler of the Universe is THE Source of ALL Wisdom. Those who come to KNOW Him, even in the limited way that is possible at this time, cannot help but call Him Father, exactly as we've been instructed to do by THE Master/Teacher.

Matthew 23:9 And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your FATHER, which is in heaven.

Matthew 6:5-9
6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt NOT be as the hypocrites [ARE]: for they love to pray standing in the churches and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward (they have been seen by men, but God will not answer them).
6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and WHEN THOU HAST SHUT THY DOOR, pray to thy FATHER in private (Enoch 56:5; Sura 7:55); and thy FATHER which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly (by answering you).
6:7 But when ye pray, use NOT vain repetitions, as the heathen [DO]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
6:8 Be NOT ye therefore like unto them: for your FATHER knoweth what things ye have need of, BEFORE ye ask Him.
6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: OUR FATHER which art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy name.

You not only attempt to limit our ALL-POWERFUL Father, but also to limit how others can share their experiences with Him. You must also think you know more than Christ (Father's Anointed/Enlightened/Awakened ONE), or you wouldn't advise others to do the exact opposite of what He teaches. Can you really not see how arrogant/ignorant that is?

The Ultimate Reality, being beyond all possibility of comprehension (and thus, to the ego, "darkness") cannot even have attributes such as "beyond space and time" applied to it, because this in itself is a determination of that which cannot be conceptually determined.
What could you possibly know about "the ultimate reality" please? And what would you know about what concepts can or cannot be conveyed to us by our ALL-POWERFUL and ALL-KNOWING and EVER-PRESENT Father?

John 17:3 And THIS is Life Eternal, that they might KNOW Thee the ONLY True God, AND Christ the Saviour, whom Thou hast sent.

In this way I was attempting to refute your argument about predestination,
In your mind, Satan planted the argument about predestination, using your ego (which pretends to be you). Satan then further conned you into believing that our Creator, Who created space, time, motion and ALL life, including His Children, is somehow unable to observe His Children at any point in time (part of being omnipresent), playing on the playground He created, without controlling their actions.

To hide his tracks, Satan then used your ego again, by tricking you into thinking you're really smart, and that you, all by yourself, discovered this apparent contradiction between predestination and free-will, all contingent upon redefining God. And then he (Satan) covered that track up too, in the same manner, by having you argue against anyone and anything that challenges your (Satan's really) totally illogical nonsense.

Anyone who comes to know Father, would know (not believe, but know) that Father is PERFECT, JUST and FAIR in ALL things.

We obviously have free-will, as evidenced by the millions of choices each of us face during a single human lifetime between good and evil. Even in human terms, people are held responsible for their actions in varying degrees within the imperfect systems we've created. And in every culture there seems to be a basic understanding that even if it seems as if someone gets away with some evil, they really don't, because perfect karma or just desserts will eventually catch up with us all. In other words, each of us will be held accountable for every thought, word and action we've ever had.

So please, for just a moment, consider the impossible situation that Satan has created in your mind. Predestination would necessarily mean that we're being punished for things we were supposedly programmed to do, which would make Father into Satan, i.e. call that which is good evil.

Isaiah 5:20-21
5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for Light, and Light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
5:21 Woe unto [them that are] wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

It therefore logically follows that there is no such thing as "predestination" which, in truth, is only a strawman Satan creates in people's minds to get them to argue his logical fallacies (illogical nonsense) for him, just as he's done with you. All so he can keep the truth about who and what we are, and why we are here on Earth, from you.

although in a sense this is unnecessary because this can be rejected quite simply due to it's obvious injustice and absurdity. If the choice is already made in advance, why even bother to create a world? - this would be one way of putting it.
Which was Father showing you the truth that there is no such thing as predestination, and that He obviously exists outside of time, space and motion, AND inside of them at the same time (OMNIPRESENT) otherwise He could not have created them, so there would be a playground (the Universe) for His Children to play in.

Instead of fighting against those who are striving to help you, why not instead consider why you felt the need to promote your predestination argument, so you could then argue against it?

Over two-thirds of the Bible is prophecy, >99% of which has already been fulfilled in exact and minute detail, sometimes thousands of years in advance of these things happening. That fact alone makes the Bible stand out against every other text on Earth, to let everyone know without a doubt it is of EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL ORIGIN and is NOT constrained by linear time. THAT is what makes it possible for Father to know that only 144,000 will come to their senses, overcome their own egos, and learn the humility to accept the truth about who and what we are, and why we are here on Earth.

Have you never wondered why we've been relegated to this one, tiny planet in a vast and limitless universe? Is it not obvious that this is a prison planet?

IF these facts are clearly understood, then wouldn't the logical thing to do be to strive to learn how to be good, like Father, so we can be released from this prison and go home, to our REAL family and friends? Neither you nor anyone else needs to worry about any number of any kind; the ONLY thing each of us needs to worry about is whether we will be found lacking on the Last Day (Mal. 4).

Make the very best of each and every moment. Give them all to Father. Put the greater, common-good above all of your personal, selfish interests. And learn The Way home.
 






shankara

Veteran
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
961
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, nor are you being honest with yourself (or, more accurately put, your "self" is deceiving you again), as evidenced by your self-contradictory statements and obvious confusion.

The Ultimate Divinity and King Ruler of the Universe is THE Source of ALL Wisdom. Those who come to KNOW Him, even in the limited way that is possible at this time, cannot help but call Him Father, exactly as we've been instructed to do by THE Master/Teacher.

Matthew 23:9 And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your FATHER, which is in heaven.

Matthew 6:5-9
6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt NOT be as the hypocrites [ARE]: for they love to pray standing in the churches and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward (they have been seen by men, but God will not answer them).
6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and WHEN THOU HAST SHUT THY DOOR, pray to thy FATHER in private (Enoch 56:5; Sura 7:55); and thy FATHER which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly (by answering you).
6:7 But when ye pray, use NOT vain repetitions, as the heathen [DO]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
6:8 Be NOT ye therefore like unto them: for your FATHER knoweth what things ye have need of, BEFORE ye ask Him.
6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: OUR FATHER which art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy name.

You not only attempt to limit our ALL-POWERFUL Father, but also to limit how others can share their experiences with Him. You must also think you know more than Christ (Father's Anointed/Enlightened/Awakened ONE), or you wouldn't advise others to do the exact opposite of what He teaches. Can you really not see how arrogant/ignorant that is?


What could you possibly know about "the ultimate reality" please? And what would you know about what concepts can or cannot be conveyed to us by our ALL-POWERFUL and ALL-KNOWING and EVER-PRESENT Father?

John 17:3 And THIS is Life Eternal, that they might KNOW Thee the ONLY True God, AND Christ the Saviour, whom Thou hast sent.


In your mind, Satan planted the argument about predestination, using your ego (which pretends to be you). Satan then further conned you into believing that our Creator, Who created space, time, motion and ALL life, including His Children, is somehow unable to observe His Children at any point in time (part of being omnipresent), playing on the playground He created, without controlling their actions.

To hide his tracks, Satan then used your ego again, by tricking you into thinking you're really smart, and that you, all by yourself, discovered this apparent contradiction between predestination and free-will, all contingent upon redefining God. And then he (Satan) covered that track up too, in the same manner, by having you argue against anyone and anything that challenges your (Satan's really) totally illogical nonsense.

Anyone who comes to know Father, would know (not believe, but know) that Father is PERFECT, JUST and FAIR in ALL things.

We obviously have free-will, as evidenced by the millions of choices each of us face during a single human lifetime between good and evil. Even in human terms, people are held responsible for their actions in varying degrees within the imperfect systems we've created. And in every culture there seems to be a basic understanding that even if it seems as if someone gets away with some evil, they really don't, because perfect karma or just desserts will eventually catch up with us all. In other words, each of us will be held accountable for every thought, word and action we've ever had.

So please, for just a moment, consider the impossible situation that Satan has created in your mind. Predestination would necessarily mean that we're being punished for things we were supposedly programmed to do, which would make Father into Satan, i.e. call that which is good evil.

Isaiah 5:20-21
5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for Light, and Light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
5:21 Woe unto [them that are] wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

It therefore logically follows that there is no such thing as "predestination" which, in truth, is only a strawman Satan creates in people's minds to get them to argue his logical fallacies (illogical nonsense) for him, just as he's done with you. All so he can keep the truth about who and what we are, and why we are here on Earth, from you.


Which was Father showing you the truth that there is no such thing as predestination, and that He obviously exists outside of time, space and motion, AND inside of them at the same time (OMNIPRESENT) otherwise He could not have created them, so there would be a playground (the Universe) for His Children to play in.

Instead of fighting against those who are striving to help you, why not instead consider why you felt the need to promote your predestination argument, so you could then argue against it?

Over two-thirds of the Bible is prophecy, >99% of which has already been fulfilled in exact and minute detail, sometimes thousands of years in advance of these things happening. That fact alone makes the Bible stand out against every other text on Earth, to let everyone know without a doubt it is of EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL ORIGIN and is NOT constrained by linear time. THAT is what makes it possible for Father to know that only 144,000 will come to their senses, overcome their own egos, and learn the humility to accept the truth about who and what we are, and why we are here on Earth.

Have you never wondered why we've been relegated to this one, tiny planet in a vast and limitless universe? Is it not obvious that this is a prison planet?

IF these facts are clearly understood, then wouldn't the logical thing to do be to strive to learn how to be good, like Father, so we can be released from this prison and go home, to our REAL family and friends? Neither you nor anyone else needs to worry about any number of any kind; the ONLY thing each of us needs to worry about is whether we will be found lacking on the Last Day (Mal. 4).

Make the very best of each and every moment. Give them all to Father. Put the greater, common-good above all of your personal, selfish interests. And learn The Way home.
What I know about the Ultimate Reality is what various quite awakened people have communicated to me and what through my own spiritual practice I have come to understand. This has all given me enough awareness, perhaps just on an intellectual level in some respects (but nonetheless to the point where on certain subjects I don't have any doubts because I know my thinking is clear) to discount the story you are telling as the creation of a disturbed person with a messianic complex.

I've thought a lot about the question of predestination, which is a major issue with all of the Abrahamic doctrines, a problem which they cannot answer within the terms of their "one life" paradigm, a paradigm which, by the way, is not so different from your own with it's strictly limited number of rebirths. To put it more clearly, predestination as a doctrine is basically the Christian/Islamic attempt to give an explanation for why some go to eternal heaven and others to eternal hell due to their beliefs rather than whether they are just, an attempt to suggest that there is some kind of genuine justice behind it all. Even if your view is somewhat more nuanced and intelligent, it still leads to the same absurdity and you find yourself in exactly the same position as the dogmatists of these religions, trying to reconcile free will and the pre-birth choosing of an elect, whether this choice took place before one birth or many.

I would suggest to you a clearer view: Everyone exists under the Law of Karma. To the extent that a person is aware of their situation, and free from unconscious complexes inhibiting the capacity of their conscious "mind" or "soul" or "spirit" to make some particular choice, they are free from predestination. These complexes will also be worked out in time, however when a person is completely possessed by their unconscious, they are to an extent predestined. For example, if a person due to their actions in past lives is not born with the impulse and type of intelligence necessary to choose to walk some spiritual path, their Karma is working itself within the limits of the wisdom that person is capable of attaining in that life. Like somebody who is born with unnatural sexual desires, some say this person has a choice of whether to follow them or not but if they are not possessed nor capable of attaining the necessary insight to grasp that what they are doing is wrong, the so-called "choice" is purely theoretical. Yet all of this is Karmic action-reaction, the destiny of a person over the course of multiple lives is not determined in advance, nor is their "final state" (if one can even speak of such a thing).

As for what you say about Biblical prophecy, I would suggest that it is perhaps possible to predict the general pattern of events in advance with some grasp of the Karmic patterns working themselves out. However the nuances of thing and the destinies of particular individuals are not so predictable. I would also suggest that it is quite easy to match "prophecies" to events due to the natural inclination of humans to project (like a person seeing the personality of another to be a certain way because of something others have told them about the person, or looking up at the clouds and seeing faces and images where in reality there are just clouds).

I suggest you abandon your projection that humanity is basically evil and consider the possibility that while, yes, we are fallen, this is a part of a larger process of spiritual evolution and is not therefore a totally abhorrent and unnatural state. I also suggest you stop convincing yourself that anyone who disagrees with your doctrine is listening to the telepathic voice of the devil in their head, a very convenient idea for controlling people into believing that whatever you say is the truth. Whether or not your so-called prophet is consciously deceiving people - I'm not questioning that perhaps he is sincere - he is nonetheless deluding you into believing a fairytale with multiple logical contradictions.
 






A Freeman

Star
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
1,453
What I know about the Ultimate Reality is what various quite awakened people have communicated to me and what through my own spiritual practice I have come to understand. This has all given me enough awareness, perhaps just on an intellectual level in some respects (but nonetheless to the point where on certain subjects I don't have any doubts because I know my thinking is clear) to discount the story you are telling as the creation of a disturbed person with a messianic complex.

I've thought a lot about the question of predestination, which is a major issue with all of the Abrahamic doctrines, a problem which they cannot answer within the terms of their "one life" paradigm, a paradigm which, by the way, is not so different from your own with it's strictly limited number of rebirths.
You're still propping up your strawman argument of "predestination", even after being shown for your own benefit. That makes you incorrigible, i.e. someone who refuses to learn from his mistakes.

To put it more clearly, predestination as a doctrine is basically the Christian/Islamic attempt to give an explanation for why some go to eternal heaven and others to eternal hell due to their beliefs rather than whether they are just, an attempt to suggest that there is some kind of genuine justice behind it all. Even if your view is somewhat more nuanced and intelligent, it still leads to the same absurdity and you find yourself in exactly the same position as the dogmatists of these religions, trying to reconcile free will and the pre-birth choosing of an elect, whether this choice took place before one birth or many.
Who brought up predestination? You. Does it have any place in anything that's been personally shared? No. Is anything that has been personally shared based upon the doctrines of Christianity or Islam? No. Christianity and Islam are simply two evil organized religions which use and abuse God's Name and don't listen to or abide by what is in either the Bible or the Quran.

I would suggest to you a clearer view: Everyone exists under the Law of Karma. To the extent that a person is aware of their situation, and free from unconscious complexes inhibiting the capacity of their conscious "mind" or "soul" or "spirit" to make some particular choice, they are free from predestination. These complexes will also be worked out in time, however when a person is completely possessed by their unconscious, they are to an extent predestined. For example, if a person due to their actions in past lives is not born with the impulse and type of intelligence necessary to choose to walk some spiritual path, their Karma is working itself within the limits of the wisdom that person is capable of attaining in that life. Like somebody who is born with unnatural sexual desires, some say this person has a choice of whether to follow them or not but if they are not possessed nor capable of attaining the necessary insight to grasp that what they are doing is wrong, the so-called "choice" is purely theoretical. Yet all of this is Karmic action-reaction, the destiny of a person over the course of multiple lives is not determined in advance, nor is their "final state" (if one can even speak of such a thing).

As for what you say about Biblical prophecy, I would suggest that it is perhaps possible to predict the general pattern of events in advance with some grasp of the Karmic patterns working themselves out. However the nuances of thing and the destinies of particular individuals are not so predictable. I would also suggest that it is quite easy to match "prophecies" to events due to the natural inclination of humans to project (like a person seeing the personality of another to be a certain way because of something others have told them about the person, or looking up at the clouds and seeing faces and images where in reality there are just clouds).

I suggest you abandon your projection that humanity is basically evil and consider the possibility that while, yes, we are fallen, this is a part of a larger process of spiritual evolution and is not therefore a totally abhorrent and unnatural state. I also suggest you stop convincing yourself that anyone who disagrees with your doctrine is listening to the telepathic voice of the devil in their head, a very convenient idea for controlling people into believing that whatever you say is the truth. Whether or not your so-called prophet is consciously deceiving people - I'm not questioning that perhaps he is sincere - he is nonetheless deluding you into believing a fairytale with multiple logical contradictions.
You're still contradicting yourself, only you are blinded to it by your own arrogance/ignorance, including the ignorance of your own arrogance (and hypocrisy).

How could there be perfect karma without punishment? What punishment would PREVENT the crimes of adultery or of murder? Or mass murder? How long should an unrepentant habitual criminal be allowed to wreak havoc over others before they're destroyed completely FOR THE GOOD OF EVERYONE CONCERNED?

The real reason for human life on planet Earth is for each of us to learn how to be good. This all started thousands of years ago, when Lucifer organized and led a coup attempt to seize control of the Universe. He managed to recruit a third of the inhabitants of the Morning Star (angels) into his army, using LIES to CONvince them.

Revelation 12:3-4 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
12:4 And his tale (of lies - John 8:35) drew the third part of the "Stars" (ch. 9:1) of heaven (into his army), and did (cause them to be) cast to the Earth (for their treason against God): and the dragon stood before the woman (Israel) which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born (Christ - second coming).

Lucifer's lies were unprecedented, which is why they took the weaker-willed angels by surprise. No one on the Morning Star had EVER lied before Lucifer invented it.

John 8:35-36 (8:44-45 KJV)
8:35 Ye are of [YOUR] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the Truth, because there is no Truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father (inventor) of it.
8:36 And because I tell [you] the Truth, ye believe me not.

Lucifer's failed attempt to overthrow and murder God, so he could take God's Place as The King Ruler of the Universe, is a well-documented FACT.

Isaiah 14:12-17
14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the Morning (Star)! [How] art thou cut down to the earth, which didst weaken the nations!
14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the North:
14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like (take the Place of) The Most High.
14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, [and] consider thee, [saying, Is] this the person that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
14:17 [That] made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; [that] opened not the house of his prisoners?

The title Satan is Hebrew and means “the Opposer” (God's adversary). When Lucifer became darkness and evil, he became the d/evil-LIAR, opposing everything that is truthful and good (Matt. 19:17). The great red dragon, devil and Satan are therefore descriptive terms Lucifer earned as a result of his criminal actions. A dragon uses its tail/tale to draw its victims into its clutches, and everything that comes out of its mouth burns its victims. A perfect description of lying Lucifer/Satan/the devil. He is also referred to as being a serpent, because everything that comes out of his mouth is poison.

And that's what started The War

Lucifer's coup attempt had to be put down by Prince Michael, known here on Earth by many names, including The Messiah/Christ, (the Anointed One/Heir to the Throne – Dan. 10:21, Dan.12:1-4, Col. 1:14-15, Rev. 5:1-9), and His Army, the heavenly host. When the rebellion against God failed and the war ended 6000 years ago, Lucifer and his followers were banished from heaven to the Earth for their TREASON against God.

Revelation 12:7-9
12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon (Lucifer); and the dragon fought and his angels,
12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out to the earth, and his angels (you - Luke 9:55) were cast out with him (Matthew 25:41).

Luke 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what kind of spirit ye are of (Rev. 12:7-9; Matt. 8:22).

Matthew 7:11 If ye then, BEING EVIL, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask Him?

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into Everlasting Fire, prepared for the devil and his angels (YOU that do not DO God's Will):


The Prison-Reform School We Call Earth (Hell really)

Not executing Lucifer and his angels, outright, created quite a difficult situation. After making a study of the situation, God and the elders of the Morning Star decided to create a prison reform-school, far enough away, where, for the chosen period, they could safely try to teach Lucifer and his angels to be good, whereupon they could come home (Deut. 28:1, Rev. 2:28, Sura 29:6).

Lucifer and his angels (those who fought with Lucifer against God) had to be taught to keep the twelve laws of heaven; THE TWELVE COMMANDMENTS; ten of which were given to Moses on Mount Sinai (Exodus 20:1-17), and the eleventh and twelfth, which were given later-on, by Jesus; one of which God demonstrated and still demonstrates, i.e. “love your enemies into being good” (Matt. 5:43-48).

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in Our image, and teach him to be like Us (i.e. teach him to be good instead of sinful/evil): and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Every one of the convicts accepted God's most gracious and merciful offer to be rehabilitated inside human-animal bodies, except for Lucifer/Iblis, who arrogantly refused to submit to human limitations. Lucifer/Satan/Iblis then asked God for a stay of execution until The Day (Mal. 4). God granted Lucifer's request, to use him to test the rest of us to determine whether we were learning our lessons, or even paying attention.

That is why Lucifer/Satan/Iblis (the devil, serpent, red-dragon) is still so powerful, and why we NEED God's guidance and help to “slay the dragon”, i.e. learn to stop listening to and getting poisoned and burned by Satan's seductive voice and smooth-sounding LIES.


The Testing Process

Lucifer/Satan/Iblis regards the rest of us as traitors to himself for our decision to submit to the re-education program, and has vowed to do everything within his power and to attack us from every conceivable angle (Eph. 6:12-18), to keep us from learning what we NEED to learn, and doing what we need to DO, to be able to go home. That is why he is now our worst enemy.

Sura 7:11-18
7:11. It is We Who created you and gave you shape; then We bade the (fallen) angels submit to Adam (human limitations), and you submitted (Luke 9:55); not so Iblis (Lucifer); he refused to be of you who submitted.
7:12. ("I AM") said: "What prevented thee from submitting when I commanded thee?" He said: "I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire (energy), and him from clay."
7:13. ("I AM") said: "Get thee down from this: it is not for thee to be arrogant here: get out, for thou art of the meanest (of creatures)."
7:14. He said: "Give me respite till the Day they are raised up."
7:15. ("I AM") said: "Be thou among those who have respite."
7:16. He said: "Because thou hast thrown me out of The Way, lo! I will lie in wait for them on Thy Straight Way:
7:17. "Then will I assault them from before them and behind them, from their right and their left: nor wilt Thou find, in MOST of them, gratitude (for Thy mercies)."
7:18. ("I AM") said: "Get out from this, disgraced and expelled. If any of them follow thee,- Hell-Fire will I fill with you all (Matt. 8:22).

Sura 17:61-65
17:61. Behold! We said to the (fallen) angels: "Submit unto Adam (man)": you submitted (Luke 9:55) except Iblis (Lucifer): he said, "Shall I submit to one whom Thou didst create from clay?"
17:62. He said: "Seest Thou? This is the one (Adamic man) whom Thou hast honoured above me! If Thou wilt but respite me to the Day of Judgment, I will surely bring his descendants under my sway - all but a few (Rev. 14:3)!"
17:63. ("I AM") said: "Go thy way if any of them follow thee, verily Hell-Fire will be the recompense of you (all)- an ample recompense (Matt. 8:22).
17:64. "Lead to destruction those whom thou canst among them, with thy (seductive) voice; make assaults on them with thy cavalry and thy infantry; mutually share with them wealth and children; and make promises to them." But Satan promises you nothing but deceit.
17:65. "As for My servants, no authority shalt thou have over them:" enough is thy Lord for a Disposer of affairs (John 11:25).

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the Life: he that believeth me (NOT Lucifer's lies), though he were "Dead" (under God's death sentence for treason - Rev. 12:7-9; Matt. 8:22; Luke 9:55), yet shall he Live (be pardoned):

Anyone who is still under the mistaken impression that there are "good people" here on Earth is in store for a very rude awakening soon, as billions are going to begin murdering each other over food and water. This isn't decades away, it is only MONTHS away. Pretending that there won't be a Judgment Day, and that we won't all be judge according to our works, will NEVER keep it from happening.

Those who, after 6000 years on Earth/Hell and many human lifetimes, refuse to repent of their selfish, evil ways will find themselves in The Fire on Judgment Day. Perfect Karma/Divine Justice (Gal. 6:7), because letting billions of hardened, unrepentant habitual criminals out into the Universe wouldn't be fair to anyone and thus will NEVER be allowed to happen.

What The King Ruler of the Universe suggests is that each of us learn to keep His Commandments and LIVE, because everyone who does otherwise WILL die. There's no one else on this planet, other than His Messiah/Christ/Mahdi/Buddha that is qualified to suggest anything.

Deuteronomy 30:15-20
30:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the "I AM" thy God, to walk in His Ways, and to keep His Commandments and His Statutes and His Judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the "I AM" thy God shall bless thee in the land where thou goest to possess it.
30:17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
30:18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, [and that] ye shall not prolong [your] days upon the land, where thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
30:20 That thou mayest love the "I AM" thy God, [and] that thou mayest obey His voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto Him: for He [is] thy Life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the "I AM" sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob/Israel, to give them.

Malachi 4
4:1 For, behold, the Day cometh, that shall burn like an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the "I AM" Lord of hosts, that it shall leave of them neither root nor branch (nothing).
4:2 But unto you that fear My name shall the Sun of Righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in The Day that I shall do [this], saith the "I AM" Lord of hosts.
4:4 Remember ye and return to The Law of Moses My servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, [with] the Statutes and Judgments.
4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the Prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful Day of the "I AM" (Sura 43:61):
4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse (see verse 4:1 for the details of the curse).
 






shankara

Veteran
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
961
You're still propping up your strawman argument of "predestination", even after being shown for your own benefit. That makes you incorrigible, i.e. someone who refuses to learn from his mistakes.


Who brought up predestination? You. Does it have any place in anything that's been personally shared? No. Is anything that has been personally shared based upon the doctrines of Christianity or Islam? No. Christianity and Islam are simply two evil organized religions which use and abuse God's Name and don't listen to or abide by what is in either the Bible or the Quran.


You're still contradicting yourself, only you are blinded to it by your own arrogance/ignorance, including the ignorance of your own arrogance (and hypocrisy).

How could there be perfect karma without punishment? What punishment would PREVENT the crimes of adultery or of murder? Or mass murder? How long should an unrepentant habitual criminal be allowed to wreak havoc over others before they're destroyed completely FOR THE GOOD OF EVERYONE CONCERNED?

The real reason for human life on planet Earth is for each of us to learn how to be good. This all started thousands of years ago, when Lucifer organized and led a coup attempt to seize control of the Universe. He managed to recruit a third of the inhabitants of the Morning Star (angels) into his army, using LIES to CONvince them.

Revelation 12:3-4 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
12:4 And his tale (of lies - John 8:35) drew the third part of the "Stars" (ch. 9:1) of heaven (into his army), and did (cause them to be) cast to the Earth (for their treason against God): and the dragon stood before the woman (Israel) which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born (Christ - second coming).

Lucifer's lies were unprecedented, which is why they took the weaker-willed angels by surprise. No one on the Morning Star had EVER lied before Lucifer invented it.

John 8:35-36 (8:44-45 KJV)
8:35 Ye are of [YOUR] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the Truth, because there is no Truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father (inventor) of it.
8:36 And because I tell [you] the Truth, ye believe me not.

Lucifer's failed attempt to overthrow and murder God, so he could take God's Place as The King Ruler of the Universe, is a well-documented FACT.

Isaiah 14:12-17
14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the Morning (Star)! [How] art thou cut down to the earth, which didst weaken the nations!
14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the North:
14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like (take the Place of) The Most High.
14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, [and] consider thee, [saying, Is] this the person that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
14:17 [That] made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; [that] opened not the house of his prisoners?

The title Satan is Hebrew and means “the Opposer” (God's adversary). When Lucifer became darkness and evil, he became the d/evil-LIAR, opposing everything that is truthful and good (Matt. 19:17). The great red dragon, devil and Satan are therefore descriptive terms Lucifer earned as a result of his criminal actions. A dragon uses its tail/tale to draw its victims into its clutches, and everything that comes out of its mouth burns its victims. A perfect description of lying Lucifer/Satan/the devil. He is also referred to as being a serpent, because everything that comes out of his mouth is poison.

And that's what started The War

Lucifer's coup attempt had to be put down by Prince Michael, known here on Earth by many names, including The Messiah/Christ, (the Anointed One/Heir to the Throne – Dan. 10:21, Dan.12:1-4, Col. 1:14-15, Rev. 5:1-9), and His Army, the heavenly host. When the rebellion against God failed and the war ended 6000 years ago, Lucifer and his followers were banished from heaven to the Earth for their TREASON against God.

Revelation 12:7-9
12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon (Lucifer); and the dragon fought and his angels,
12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out to the earth, and his angels (you - Luke 9:55) were cast out with him (Matthew 25:41).

Luke 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what kind of spirit ye are of (Rev. 12:7-9; Matt. 8:22).

Matthew 7:11 If ye then, BEING EVIL, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask Him?

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into Everlasting Fire, prepared for the devil and his angels (YOU that do not DO God's Will):


The Prison-Reform School We Call Earth (Hell really)

Not executing Lucifer and his angels, outright, created quite a difficult situation. After making a study of the situation, God and the elders of the Morning Star decided to create a prison reform-school, far enough away, where, for the chosen period, they could safely try to teach Lucifer and his angels to be good, whereupon they could come home (Deut. 28:1, Rev. 2:28, Sura 29:6).

Lucifer and his angels (those who fought with Lucifer against God) had to be taught to keep the twelve laws of heaven; THE TWELVE COMMANDMENTS; ten of which were given to Moses on Mount Sinai (Exodus 20:1-17), and the eleventh and twelfth, which were given later-on, by Jesus; one of which God demonstrated and still demonstrates, i.e. “love your enemies into being good” (Matt. 5:43-48).

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in Our image, and teach him to be like Us (i.e. teach him to be good instead of sinful/evil): and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Every one of the convicts accepted God's most gracious and merciful offer to be rehabilitated inside human-animal bodies, except for Lucifer/Iblis, who arrogantly refused to submit to human limitations. Lucifer/Satan/Iblis then asked God for a stay of execution until The Day (Mal. 4). God granted Lucifer's request, to use him to test the rest of us to determine whether we were learning our lessons, or even paying attention.

That is why Lucifer/Satan/Iblis (the devil, serpent, red-dragon) is still so powerful, and why we NEED God's guidance and help to “slay the dragon”, i.e. learn to stop listening to and getting poisoned and burned by Satan's seductive voice and smooth-sounding LIES.


The Testing Process

Lucifer/Satan/Iblis regards the rest of us as traitors to himself for our decision to submit to the re-education program, and has vowed to do everything within his power and to attack us from every conceivable angle (Eph. 6:12-18), to keep us from learning what we NEED to learn, and doing what we need to DO, to be able to go home. That is why he is now our worst enemy.

Sura 7:11-18
7:11. It is We Who created you and gave you shape; then We bade the (fallen) angels submit to Adam (human limitations), and you submitted (Luke 9:55); not so Iblis (Lucifer); he refused to be of you who submitted.
7:12. ("I AM") said: "What prevented thee from submitting when I commanded thee?" He said: "I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire (energy), and him from clay."
7:13. ("I AM") said: "Get thee down from this: it is not for thee to be arrogant here: get out, for thou art of the meanest (of creatures)."
7:14. He said: "Give me respite till the Day they are raised up."
7:15. ("I AM") said: "Be thou among those who have respite."
7:16. He said: "Because thou hast thrown me out of The Way, lo! I will lie in wait for them on Thy Straight Way:
7:17. "Then will I assault them from before them and behind them, from their right and their left: nor wilt Thou find, in MOST of them, gratitude (for Thy mercies)."
7:18. ("I AM") said: "Get out from this, disgraced and expelled. If any of them follow thee,- Hell-Fire will I fill with you all (Matt. 8:22).

Sura 17:61-65
17:61. Behold! We said to the (fallen) angels: "Submit unto Adam (man)": you submitted (Luke 9:55) except Iblis (Lucifer): he said, "Shall I submit to one whom Thou didst create from clay?"
17:62. He said: "Seest Thou? This is the one (Adamic man) whom Thou hast honoured above me! If Thou wilt but respite me to the Day of Judgment, I will surely bring his descendants under my sway - all but a few (Rev. 14:3)!"
17:63. ("I AM") said: "Go thy way if any of them follow thee, verily Hell-Fire will be the recompense of you (all)- an ample recompense (Matt. 8:22).
17:64. "Lead to destruction those whom thou canst among them, with thy (seductive) voice; make assaults on them with thy cavalry and thy infantry; mutually share with them wealth and children; and make promises to them." But Satan promises you nothing but deceit.
17:65. "As for My servants, no authority shalt thou have over them:" enough is thy Lord for a Disposer of affairs (John 11:25).

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the Life: he that believeth me (NOT Lucifer's lies), though he were "Dead" (under God's death sentence for treason - Rev. 12:7-9; Matt. 8:22; Luke 9:55), yet shall he Live (be pardoned):

Anyone who is still under the mistaken impression that there are "good people" here on Earth is in store for a very rude awakening soon, as billions are going to begin murdering each other over food and water. This isn't decades away, it is only MONTHS away. Pretending that there won't be a Judgment Day, and that we won't all be judge according to our works, will NEVER keep it from happening.

Those who, after 6000 years on Earth/Hell and many human lifetimes, refuse to repent of their selfish, evil ways will find themselves in The Fire on Judgment Day. Perfect Karma/Divine Justice (Gal. 6:7), because letting billions of hardened, unrepentant habitual criminals out into the Universe wouldn't be fair to anyone and thus will NEVER be allowed to happen.

What The King Ruler of the Universe suggests is that each of us learn to keep His Commandments and LIVE, because everyone who does otherwise WILL die. There's no one else on this planet, other than His Messiah/Christ/Mahdi/Buddha that is qualified to suggest anything.

Deuteronomy 30:15-20
30:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the "I AM" thy God, to walk in His Ways, and to keep His Commandments and His Statutes and His Judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the "I AM" thy God shall bless thee in the land where thou goest to possess it.
30:17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
30:18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, [and that] ye shall not prolong [your] days upon the land, where thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
30:20 That thou mayest love the "I AM" thy God, [and] that thou mayest obey His voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto Him: for He [is] thy Life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the "I AM" sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob/Israel, to give them.

Malachi 4
4:1 For, behold, the Day cometh, that shall burn like an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the "I AM" Lord of hosts, that it shall leave of them neither root nor branch (nothing).
4:2 But unto you that fear My name shall the Sun of Righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in The Day that I shall do [this], saith the "I AM" Lord of hosts.
4:4 Remember ye and return to The Law of Moses My servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, [with] the Statutes and Judgments.
4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the Prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful Day of the "I AM" (Sura 43:61):
4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse (see verse 4:1 for the details of the curse).
Well in fact it is you who raised this whole question of predestination with your own insistence of there being literally 144,000 saved. You haven't responded to the majority of points in my argument. Perhaps your ideas make some sense in accordance with the internal logic of your belief system, in which we are all fallen angels in a prison. Your beliefs have some similarities with Gnostic ideas, to which I am quite receptive, so I thought perhaps you had a certain degree of intelligence and perhaps it would be possible to communicate and have a somewhat mature discussion with you. However you simply respond to everything by reiterating the dogmas of your beliefs, biblical quotes, not even really related to the facts being presented.

Personally I believe that the situation we are in, however dark it may seem, and however many dark forces may be genuinely at work, as a part of a cosmic process of evolution, from spiritual to material and finally bringing the spiritual out of the material. There will be those who don't arrive at the stage of the next evolution, they will have to repeat the process again, from mineral, to animal, to human, then again the choice, ascend or fall back again. My understanding of the myths about the fallen angels is not dissimilar to yours, that they are basically allegories for embodiment, however I consider this to be a necessary process and not the result of some unwanted "revolution" in the heavenly spheres. Without becoming human the angels would remain in a state of elemental ignorance, without tasting of the tree of knowledge man would rest in the fools' paradise of a demiurge.

I am strongly in favour of total intellectual liberty, people's freedom to think exactly as they want and even more so, that the ways in which people think are necessary parts of their own process of evolution. I presented to you solid arguments, unfortunately as you are convinced that they are simply the product of the "telepathic voice of the devil" in my head, you fail to grasp their import, as you will fail to grasp anything which conflicts with the belief system you have internalized.

I hope that by whatever asceticisms and spiritual processes you undergo, you will attain some realization and eventually let go of the dogmas. It's like Buddha said, the teaching is a boat, you practice and cross to the other side. Beliefs ultimately mean little, it is how they motivate us to act which is of importance.

OM MANI PEME HUNG
 






None of you

Established
Joined
Jan 17, 2020
Messages
132
Gentle With All. - April 13

Love and laugh. Make your world the happier for your being in it. Love and rejoice on the grey days.

There are wilderness days for My disciples as well as mountains of transfiguration, but on both it is duty, persistently, faithfully done, that tells.

Be gentle with all. Strive to see the heart I see, to know the pain and difficulty of the other life, that I know. Strive, before you interview anyone, or speak to anyone, to ask Me to act as interpreter between you two.

Just live in the spirit of prayer. In speaking to Me, you find soul-rest. Simple tasks, faithfully done and persisted in, bring their own reward, and are mosaics being laid in the pavement of success.

Welcome all who come here. I Love you.
 






A Freeman

Star
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
1,453
Well in fact it is you who raised this whole question of predestination with your own insistence of there being literally 144,000 saved. You haven't responded to the majority of points in my argument. Perhaps your ideas make some sense in accordance with the internal logic of your belief system, in which we are all fallen angels in a prison. Your beliefs have some similarities with Gnostic ideas, to which I am quite receptive, so I thought perhaps you had a certain degree of intelligence and perhaps it would be possible to communicate and have a somewhat mature discussion with you. However you simply respond to everything by reiterating the dogmas of your beliefs, biblical quotes, not even really related to the facts being presented.

Personally I believe that the situation we are in, however dark it may seem, and however many dark forces may be genuinely at work, as a part of a cosmic process of evolution, from spiritual to material and finally bringing the spiritual out of the material. There will be those who don't arrive at the stage of the next evolution, they will have to repeat the process again, from mineral, to animal, to human, then again the choice, ascend or fall back again. My understanding of the myths about the fallen angels is not dissimilar to yours, that they are basically allegories for embodiment, however I consider this to be a necessary process and not the result of some unwanted "revolution" in the heavenly spheres. Without becoming human the angels would remain in a state of elemental ignorance, without tasting of the tree of knowledge man would rest in the fools' paradise of a demiurge.

I am strongly in favour of total intellectual liberty, people's freedom to think exactly as they want and even more so, that the ways in which people think are necessary parts of their own process of evolution. I presented to you solid arguments, unfortunately as you are convinced that they are simply the product of the "telepathic voice of the devil" in my head, you fail to grasp their import, as you will fail to grasp anything which conflicts with the belief system you have internalized.

I hope that by whatever asceticisms and spiritual processes you undergo, you will attain some realization and eventually let go of the dogmas. It's like Buddha said, the teaching is a boat, you practice and cross to the other side. Beliefs ultimately mean little, it is how they motivate us to act which is of importance.

OM MANI PEME HUNG
The 144,000 is a PROPHECY. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with “predestination”, which you brought up as a strawman and then began to argue against it. Those are the facts, as anyone who reads through this thread can see for themselves.

There's a huge difference between evidence and conjecture. Truth is built on the former; lies are built on the latter. And it is the doom of men that they forget the difference between the two.

Sedata was then tempted by the five (seven really) deceptively innocent looking daughters of Marah/Lucifer/Iblis the lord of darkness:- Pride (Arrogance); Greed (Avarice); Fear (or Hate or Anger); Ignorance (of the real truth about your "Self") and Desire (Lust or Covetousness) (the other two are Sloth and Gluttony) - "The Seven Deadly Sins". The lord of darkness (Marah - Lucifer - Iblis - Satan) had sent them to tempt Sedata away from his search, but Sedata overcame* them.

* Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the Tree of Life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Matthew 4:8-11
4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and showeth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him ONLY shalt thou serve.
4:11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.


"Darkness" had tried to tempt Sedata, in the cleverest of ways, by disguising the temptations of life in the simplest forms but Sedata was looking beyond form, beyond the present. Now "Darkness" was enraged, and sent an army of demons to try to attack Sedata, but he stayed calm and at peace with God and was defended by God because of his total (blind) Faith (The Shield - Ephesians 6:16; Genesis 15:1) and the consequent lack of fear that such Faith (Trust) gives.

His human body then said to him (his Being), "You who go where no-one else will dare. Will you be my god?"

Sedata said, "Architect. Finally I have met you. You will not rebuild your house (my human prison - my "Self") again."

His human body replied, deviously, "But I am your house and you live in me."

Sedata said to lord Darkness (Lucifer the Devil), "Oh lord of my own ego ("Self"), you are pure illusion (deceit and lies - the word devil means liar), you do not exist (you will no longer deceive my "Self" with your lies because my "Self" is crucified and it no longer exists). The earth (from which the human "Self" was created) is my witness."

The teaching of Buddha, not that of the Buddhist religion, in relation to the body and the soul (Being) and crucifixion of "Self" is identical to the teaching of Christ, not the teaching of the Christian religion.

Peace be upon you in your spiritual journey to overcome the "self". May it be one of enlightenment.
 






shankara

Veteran
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
961
The 144,000 is a PROPHECY. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with “predestination”, which you brought up as a strawman and then began to argue against it. Those are the facts, as anyone who reads through this thread can see for themselves.

There's a huge difference between evidence and conjecture. Truth is built on the former; lies are built on the latter. And it is the doom of men that they forget the difference between the two.

Sedata was then tempted by the five (seven really) deceptively innocent looking daughters of Marah/Lucifer/Iblis the lord of darkness:- Pride (Arrogance); Greed (Avarice); Fear (or Hate or Anger); Ignorance (of the real truth about your "Self") and Desire (Lust or Covetousness) (the other two are Sloth and Gluttony) - "The Seven Deadly Sins". The lord of darkness (Marah - Lucifer - Iblis - Satan) had sent them to tempt Sedata away from his search, but Sedata overcame* them.

* Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the Tree of Life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Matthew 4:8-11
4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and showeth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him ONLY shalt thou serve.
4:11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.


"Darkness" had tried to tempt Sedata, in the cleverest of ways, by disguising the temptations of life in the simplest forms but Sedata was looking beyond form, beyond the present. Now "Darkness" was enraged, and sent an army of demons to try to attack Sedata, but he stayed calm and at peace with God and was defended by God because of his total (blind) Faith (The Shield - Ephesians 6:16; Genesis 15:1) and the consequent lack of fear that such Faith (Trust) gives.

His human body then said to him (his Being), "You who go where no-one else will dare. Will you be my god?"

Sedata said, "Architect. Finally I have met you. You will not rebuild your house (my human prison - my "Self") again."

His human body replied, deviously, "But I am your house and you live in me."

Sedata said to lord Darkness (Lucifer the Devil), "Oh lord of my own ego ("Self"), you are pure illusion (deceit and lies - the word devil means liar), you do not exist (you will no longer deceive my "Self" with your lies because my "Self" is crucified and it no longer exists). The earth (from which the human "Self" was created) is my witness."

The teaching of Buddha, not that of the Buddhist religion, in relation to the body and the soul (Being) and crucifixion of "Self" is identical to the teaching of Christ, not the teaching of the Christian religion.

Peace be upon you in your spiritual journey to overcome the "self". May it be one of enlightenment.
I spoke about the validity of prophecy, you evidently didn't read it as you were too busy collecting Biblical quotes to attempt to prove that the poor suffering and fallen humanity is evil and must be permanently spiritually destroyed. Here it is again:
As for what you say about Biblical prophecy, I would suggest that it is perhaps possible to predict the general pattern of events in advance with some grasp of the Karmic patterns working themselves out. However the nuances of thing and the destinies of particular individuals are not so predictable. I would also suggest that it is quite easy to match "prophecies" to events due to the natural inclination of humans to project (like a person seeing the personality of another to be a certain way because of something others have told them about the person, or looking up at the clouds and seeing faces and images where in reality there are just clouds).
If a prophecy like the 144,000 is to be exactly true, this means that the event has been predetermined to pass before it's passing, which in itself is predestination.

Anyway, I hope maybe what I mentioned about the whole fallen angels thing being an allegory for embodiment, but not in quite such a literal sense as you take it, that it refers to a cosmic process which is supposed to happen, the evolution from elemental ignorance to full human consciousness, from the false paradise "Garden of Eden" of the Demiurge to the true paradise of awakened being - I hope that this might be useful to you. I also think that there are some who won't "make the grade", and thus will have to repeat the process of evolution from mineral, to plant, to animal, to human, and then either to conscious angel or again return to mineral...

It's a shame that you block out ideas which might prove useful to you because you are convinced that anyone who disagrees with the dogmas you hold to be under the influence of "the telepathic voice of the devil".

As we will never agree (nor should we, for as Blake said "true friendship is opposition", and intellectual liberty is positive and necessary), I'll end with something we can both agree on:

 






A Freeman

Star
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
1,453
I spoke about the validity of prophecy, you evidently didn't read it as you were too busy collecting Biblical quotes to attempt to prove that the poor suffering and fallen humanity is evil and must be permanently spiritually destroyed. Here it is again:

As for what you say about Biblical prophecy, I would suggest that it is perhaps possible to predict the general pattern of events in advance with some grasp of the Karmic patterns working themselves out. However the nuances of thing and the destinies of particular individuals are not so predictable. I would also suggest that it is quite easy to match "prophecies" to events due to the natural inclination of humans to project (like a person seeing the personality of another to be a certain way because of something others have told them about the person, or looking up at the clouds and seeing faces and images where in reality there are just clouds).
All of the above pseudo-intellectual nonsense was designed to do one thing: call our Creator a liar so the “self” can continue to rule/be your god.

Everything you've said above from a decidely human perspective, and ALL of it is wrong. It doesn't need to be read or reread by anyone, because it's all lies, as humans always see everything upside down and backwards. The only thing that keeps you from “seeing” that truth (spiritually) is your “self”.

Even today, the technology exists for us to create virtual reality video games, where someone can have a virtual life inside of a game programmed by someone else. The player can exercise their free-will choice within the confines of the game construct, and is satisfied that the outcome is unpredictable, from inside the game.

But from outside of the game, the programmer alone knows every detail and possibility, and that each of those free-will choices is actually nothing more than a sequence of if-then-else statements, which lead the player to the next decision, in a series of choices that can only produce one of two possible results: either the game is mastered by the player and they “win”, or the player never masters the game and they “lose” over and over again, until they run out of time.

The Earth is, in its own way, a virtual reality game. The human body is a complex, organic computer, firing electrical impulses from its sensors to its central processor to interpret the game setting in real time, so decisions can be made.

No one on this planet has ever had an original idea; every single thought is nothing more than an if-then-else statement, providing the opportunity to choose between two sources: good and evil. The only thing that cons people (players) into thinking any differently is their egos (the “self”).

The game of Life is designed with one goal in mind: to teach the player to choose good over evil in every decision, for both individual and collective benefit. The reward for doing so is spiritual enlightenment/advancement. The punishment for choosing evil instead is a series of escalating self-correcting measures, in the form of physical sickness, disappointment and heart-ache, isolation and even physical death. These are followed by new surroundings in the next round that perfectly match what the player earned from their previous rounds, where the surroundings are custom-taylored to each player's personal choices, to give them the very best opportunity to learn what they need to learn, so they can “win” the game and go home.

The programmer in the game of Life is of course our Creator, Who remains invisible to the players inside the game. However, unlike human video games, the Creator has set up a special link to all of the players, so they can access Him/His Mainframe (True Wisdom) at any time, providing them with foreknowledge of events (warning signs) as well as Guidance and Protection every step of The Way.

Sadly, most of the players in this game are so mesmerized by their virtual surroundings, that they literally begin to believe they are their human avatar. And in so doing, they abandon the goal of winning the game in favor of collecting as many game points as possible in the virtual world (materialism), against their fellow players, losing all sight of reality. As a result, these players have little or no use for communication with the Programmer/Creator, because the two goals (discipline and self-sacrifice v. materialism) are mutually exclusive.

Eventually, because they physically cannot see it with their human eyes and thus cannot adjust their notion of reality accordingly, they are convinced there is nothing outside of the game they mistakenly believe they've mastered, because they are temporarily able to manipulate its rules within this controlled environment. This, in turn deceives them into thinking they can “win” by serving their “selves” instead of the greater, common good. At that point there is no hope of them ever winning the game, because their goals have been completely subverted, and they are totally convinced they are seeing things correctly when, in fact, they are seeing everything upside down and backwards, through human eyes from within the game.

Of course the rules for this game of Life, including specific instructions on how to contact the Creator/Programmer directly, with numerous examples and even prophetic warnings of potential pitfalls as well as extra credit pearls of wisdom that may be found along The Way, can only be found in ONE place: in the basic instruction manual.

Basic Instruction Before Leaving Earth

Envision if you can, how sad it must be for our Creator/Programmer to see people stumbling around in the dark when He has provided a Light and all of the necessary tools and reminders, and written instructions, i.e. everything necessary to help all of the players “win” the game, while respecting their free-will right to choose. He even sends players who are more familiar with the rules as messengers to help those who are less familiar (or not at all), only to watch the messengers be cursed and scorned by the other players, who choose of their own free-will to feed their egos and remain in the dark because they love darkness rather than Light.

If a prophecy like the 144,000 is to be exactly true, this means that the event has been predetermined to pass before it's passing, which in itself is predestination.
Of course that's how humans would see it, because they have no facility for seeing anything spiritual. Humans don't understand (nor can they) what a prophecy is or how it is made, much less anything about our Creator Who made it. All part of willfully choosing ignorance over true enlightenment and wisdom, which is only possible through true humility and loving respect for our Creator and all living things, which He (Father) created.

All prophecy is written into the program with at least two possible outcomes, to be determined by our free-will choices. Of course one has to read the instruction manual to find this out.

For our Creator, Who exists outside of the game of Life He created—i.e. outside of time, space and motion—everything that will ever happen throughout eternity has already been recorded, as He also serves as the repository/library/construct for ALL of that information. “Tomorrow” isn't created as it is experienced here inside the game; tomorrow already exists, waiting for us to advance to that point in the game.

So He ALONE knows every possible outcome of every situation and scenario there ever has been and ever will be, even though He exerts no external pressure on any of it to influence it.

Time simply does NOT exist outside the game of Life any more than the internal clock inside a video game has any bearing on our day to day lives. But humans, who have been trained to think in terms of linear time, counting the minutes between their births and deaths, are incapable of understanding such things. Only a spiritual-Being, who knows he isn't the human avatar, has read and understands the instructions, and has followed them to establish a line of communication with our Creator, can understand such things.

Which is likewise what makes it so easy to differentiate between those who have read the instructions and understand them to some degree, and those who haven't and are obviously clueless.

Anyway, I hope maybe what I mentioned about the whole fallen angels thing being an allegory for embodiment, but not in quite such a literal sense as you take it, that it refers to a cosmic process which is supposed to happen, the evolution from elemental ignorance to full human consciousness, from the false paradise "Garden of Eden" of the Demiurge to the true paradise of awakened being - I hope that this might be useful to you.
The above is simply more human intellectualizing about the spiritual, which it knows absolutely nothing about and never will. There is no such thing as “full human consciousness” (which is a dead give away who made this statement); there is only a spirit-Being who is either asleep inside the human condition or who has awakened to the true reality that we are NOT human, and cannot learn ANYTHING of any value without the help of our Creator.

I also think that there are some who won't "make the grade", and thus will have to repeat the process of evolution from mineral, to plant, to animal, to human, and then either to conscious angel or again return to mineral...
More pseudo-intellectual human nonsense. A spirit-Being doesn't “evolve” from a mineral to a plant, or to an animal before becoming a human. This is a human thinking it's at the top of the food chain here inside the game, and that it must have worked its way up some imaginary evolutionary ladder to attain such a lofty status.

What would be the point of such a ridiculous process? What would any of us learn from being a rock or mineral, or even a plant or an animal?

The reason human animals were created is to be used as private prison cells for spirit-Beings who have been sent to this prison reform school. A spiritual-Being has no needs (e.g. food, clothing), nor can it feel pain, so it cannot be spanked or sent to bed without supper when it misbehaves. But placing it inside of a human, so that it feels everything the human body feels, allows it to be disciplined, which is necessary in any rehabilitation process.

It's a shame that you block out ideas which might prove useful to you because you are convinced that anyone who disagrees with the dogmas you hold to be under the influence of "the telepathic voice of the devil".
Nothing you've shared thus far in this thread would prove helpful to anyone, because it's a bunch of lies stemming from a very obvious human perspective. That's why your human “self” (pretending to be you) offers nothing more than its opinions (zero evidence), and so desperately tries to dismiss the evidence that exposes it, erroneously referring to it as “dogma”.

As the human is incapable of understanding anything extraterrestrial/spiritual—ALL of which is completely foreign to it—it cannot discern between religious dogma and the extraterrestrial instruction manual that is its only hope of successfully navigating through this very dark world.

As we will never agree (nor should we, for as Blake said "true friendship is opposition", and intellectual liberty is positive and necessary), I'll end with something we can both agree on:
Only a human (who all suffer from cognitive dissonance) could think that "true friendship is opposition". True friendship is striving to help lift someone out of the pit of confusion you can clearly see they're mired in, even when they are kicking, screaming and fighting against you every step of The Way. We all have been given intellectual liberty by our Creator (free-will); it's a shame that so few choose to exercise it for the greater good, in the service of others.
 






Last edited:

shankara

Veteran
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
961
All of the above pseudo-intellectual nonsense was designed to do one thing: call our Creator a liar so the “self” can continue to rule/be your god.

Everything you've said above from a decidely human perspective, and ALL of it is wrong. It doesn't need to be read or reread by anyone, because it's all lies, as humans always see everything upside down and backwards. The only thing that keeps you from “seeing” that truth (spiritually) is your “self”.

Even today, the technology exists for us to create virtual reality video games, where someone can have a virtual life inside of a game programmed by someone else. The player can exercise their free-will choice within the confines of the game construct, and is satisfied that the outcome is unpredictable, from inside the game.

But from outside of the game, the programmer alone knows every detail and possibility, and that each of those free-will choices is actually nothing more than a sequence of if-then-else statements, which lead the player to the next decision, in a series of choices that can only produce one of two possible results: either the game is mastered by the player and they “win”, or the player never masters the game and they “lose” over and over again, until they run out of time.

The Earth is, in its own way, a virtual reality game. The human body is a complex, organic computer, firing electrical impulses from its sensors to its central processor to interpret the game setting in real time, so decisions can be made.

No one on this planet has ever had an original idea; every single thought is nothing more than an if-then-else statement, providing the opportunity to choose between two sources: good and evil. The only thing that cons people (players) into thinking any differently is their egos (the “self”).

The game of Life is designed with one goal in mind: to teach the player to choose good over evil in every decision, for both individual and collective benefit. The reward for doing so is spiritual enlightenment/advancement. The punishment for choosing evil instead is a series of escalating self-correcting measures, in the form of physical sickness, disappointment and heart-ache, isolation and even physical death. These are followed by new surroundings in the next round that perfectly match what the player earned from their previous rounds, where the surroundings are custom-taylored to each player's personal choices, to give them the very best opportunity to learn what they need to learn, so they can “win” the game and go home.

The programmer in the game of Life is of course our Creator, Who remains invisible to the players inside the game. However, unlike human video games, the Creator has set up a special link to all of the players, so they can access Him/His Mainframe (True Wisdom) at any time, providing them with foreknowledge of events (warning signs) as well as Guidance and Protection every step of The Way.

Sadly, most of the players in this game are so mesmerized by their virtual surroundings, that they literally begin to believe they are their human avatar. And in so doing, they abandon the goal of winning the game in favor of collecting as many game points as possible in the virtual world (materialism), against their fellow players, losing all sight of reality. As a result, these players have little or no use for communication with the Programmer/Creator, because the two goals (discipline and self-sacrifice v. materialism) are mutually exclusive.

Eventually, because they physically cannot see it with their human eyes and thus cannot adjust their notion of reality accordingly, they are convinced there is nothing outside of the game they mistakenly believe they've mastered, because they are temporarily able to manipulate its rules within this controlled environment. This, in turn deceives them into thinking they can “win” by serving their “selves” instead of the greater, common good. At that point there is no hope of them ever winning the game, because their goals have been completely subverted, and they are totally convinced they are seeing things correctly when, in fact, they are seeing everything upside down and backwards, through human eyes from within the game.

Of course the rules for this game of Life, including specific instructions on how to contact the Creator/Programmer directly, with numerous examples and even prophetic warnings of potential pitfalls as well as extra credit pearls of wisdom that may be found along The Way, can only be found in ONE place: in the basic instruction manual.

Basic Instruction Before Leaving Earth

Envision if you can, how sad it must be for our Creator/Programmer to see people stumbling around in the dark when He has provided a Light and all of the necessary tools and reminders, and written instructions, i.e. everything necessary to help all of the players “win” the game, while respecting their free-will right to choose. He even sends players who are more familiar with the rules as messengers to help those who are less familiar (or not at all), only to watch the messengers be cursed and scorned by the other players, who choose of their own free-will to feed their egos and remain in the dark because they love darkness rather than Light.


Of course that's how humans would see it, because they have no facility for seeing anything spiritual. Humans don't understand (nor can they) what a prophecy is or how it is made, much less anything about our Creator Who made it. All part of willfully choosing ignorance over true enlightenment and wisdom, which is only possible through true humility and loving respect for our Creator and all living things, which He (Father) created.

All prophecy is written into the program with at least two possible outcomes, to be determined by our free-will choices. Of course one has to read the instruction manual to find this out.

For our Creator, Who exists outside of the game of Life He created—i.e. outside of time, space and motion—everything that will ever happen throughout eternity has already been recorded, as He also serves as the repository/library/construct for ALL of that information. “Tomorrow” isn't created as it is experienced here inside the game; tomorrow already exists, waiting for us to advance to that point in the game.

So He ALONE knows every possible outcome of every situation and scenario there ever has been and ever will be, even though He exerts no external pressure on any of it to influence it.

Time simply does NOT exist outside the game of Life any more than the internal clock inside a video game has any bearing on our day to day lives. But humans, who have been trained to think in terms of linear time, counting the minutes between their births and deaths, are incapable of understanding such things. Only a spiritual-Being, who knows he isn't the human avatar, has read and understands the instructions, and has followed them to establish a line of communication with our Creator, can understand such things.

Which is likewise what makes it so easy to differentiate between those who have read the instructions and understand them to some degree, and those who haven't and are obviously clueless.



The above is simply more human intellectualizing about the spiritual, which it knows absolutely nothing about and never will. There is no such thing as “full human consciousness” (which is a dead give away who made this statement); there is only a spirit-Being who is either asleep inside the human condition or who has awakened to the true reality that we are NOT human, and cannot learn ANYTHING of any value without the help of our Creator.


More pseudo-intellectual human nonsense. A spirit-Being doesn't “evolve” from a mineral to a plant, or to an animal before becoming a human. This is a human thinking it's at the top of the food chain here inside the game, and that it must have worked its way up some imaginary evolutionary ladder to attain such a lofty status.

What would be the point of such a ridiculous process? What would any of us learn from being a rock or mineral, or even a plant or an animal?

The reason human animals were created is to be used as private prison cells for spirit-Beings who have been sent to this prison reform school. A spiritual-Being has no needs (e.g. food, clothing), nor can it feel pain, so it cannot be spanked or sent to bed without supper when it misbehaves. But placing it inside of a human, so that it feels everything the human body feels, allows it to be disciplined, which is necessary in any rehabilitation process.


Nothing you've shared thus far in this thread would prove helpful to anyone, because it's a bunch of lies stemming from a very obvious human perspective. That's why your human “self” (pretending to be you) offers nothing more than its opinions (zero evidence), and so desperately tries to dismiss the evidence that exposes it, erroneously referring to it as “dogma”.

As the human is incapable of understanding anything extraterrestrial/spiritual—ALL of which is completely foreign to it—it cannot discern between religious dogma and the extraterrestrial instruction manual that is its only hope of successfully navigating through this very dark world.


Only a human (who all suffer from cognitive dissonance) could think that "true friendship is opposition". True friendship is striving to help lift someone out of the pit of confusion you can clearly see they're mired in, even when they are kicking, screaming and fighting against you every step of The Way. We all have been given intellectual liberty by our Creator (free-will); it's a shame that so few choose to exercise it for the greater good, in the service of others.
Urizen_with_his_net_-_The_Book_of_Urizen,_copy_G,_object_27_c1818_(Library_of_Congress)_Detail.jpg
The great mystic William Blake's "Urizen", a figure representing a kind of Demiurge - described as ' “Creator of Men,” a god of immense power who invented a repressive web of laws and religion based on reason. For Blake, Urizen’s laws limited energy and crushed the imagination.'

Before you go slandering people who may have had more insight than you and accusing them of "cognitive dissonance" simply for saying things which to the intellectual ego are puzzling (like Zen "Koans"), you could at least try reading some of their work. It seems that you have little appreciation for the spiritual power of art, I posted a Hugo poem on here which was also accused of being merely "human". If you could create something of equal beauty yourself, then perhaps I would consider believing you...

“The Truth is the unknown from moment to moment, our minds must be always alert with full attention, free from prejudices, misconceptions, so it can be really receptive.” (Samael Aun Weor)
 






A Freeman

Star
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
1,453
View attachment 34884
The great mystic William Blake's "Urizen", a figure representing a kind of Demiurge - described as ' “Creator of Men,” a god of immense power who invented a repressive web of laws and religion based on reason. For Blake, Urizen’s laws limited energy and crushed the imagination.'

Before you go slandering people who may have had more insight than you and accusing them of "cognitive dissonance" simply for saying things which to the intellectual ego are puzzling (like Zen "Koans"), you could at least try reading some of their work. It seems that you have little appreciation for the spiritual power of art, I posted a Hugo poem on here which was also accused of being merely "human". If you could create something of equal beauty yourself, then perhaps I would consider believing you...

“The Truth is the unknown from moment to moment, our minds must be always alert with full attention, free from prejudices, misconceptions, so it can be really receptive.” (Samael Aun Weor)
More egotistical human nonsense. All to protect a fragile ego that's now been exposed for all to see.

The King Ruler of the Universe stated the following about the imaginations of men:-

Genesis 6:5 And "I AM" saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.

Truth and Justice are NOT transitory theories that change from moment to moment; they are IMMUTABLE.

Learn to destroy your ego before it destroys you.

Peace be upon you.
 






shankara

Veteran
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
961
More egotistical human nonsense. All to protect a fragile ego that's now been exposed for all to see.

The King Ruler of the Universe stated the following about the imaginations of men:-

Genesis 6:5 And "I AM" saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.

Truth and Justice are NOT transitory theories that change from moment to moment; they are IMMUTABLE.

Learn to destroy your ego before it destroys you.

Peace be upon you.
Genesis is a very interesting (kabbalistic) document, like the rest of the Pentateuch it draws on a variety of "pagan" sources, gives new names to people, slight alterations to stories whether to focus on some different facet or to uniquely Jewish esoteric teachings. You are quoting these Bible verses to try to justify your position, specifically in relation to what I mentioned in the last post about you completely lacking respect for some very spiritual and beautiful artistic creations. In this regard your thinking is quite like that of many other cults, who use the notion that everything "outside" is evil, wrong, corrupt, depraved, filthy, wicked, demonic and such in order to keep adherents firmly within the bosom of the cult which is good, decent, honest, holy, wise, insightful, too profound for the heathen to understand. I'm a pretty open minded person when it comes to religious theories, so rather than simply dismissing your ideas like the evangelicals on here do, I decided to be open to them and try to discuss them with you because to me they looked like a form of some Gnostic ideas, for example the stuff about earth being a kind of prison.

Yet you have very fixed interpretations of allegories which in reality have a quite different significance from the way you are interpreting them. You are unwilling to even entertain the suggestion that these allegories have a different significance because I am "outside" and therefore everything I say is merely the cunning trickery of the wily devil, egotism and misguidance. A devil which, by the way, you also fail to understand the allegorical significance of.

You think that I am trembling about my petty ego being exposed by your illuminated wisdom, that I am the wicked black magician who dreads being exposed before the terrible light of public opinion. I am not trembling and I am not trying to lead you astray. I am trying to communicate as well as I possibly can to people who are caught up in the confusion of a delusional person's twisted doctrines.

What you say about truth, well in a sense I agree, I believe there is an immutable universal law, yes. I believe that there are genuine facts about reality, including some of the things I have been trying to put across to you. On the other hand as human beings our perspectives are always partial, incomplete, at best a reasonable reflection of the light - and so we should always remain open to the possibility of revising our beliefs, seeing things in a new light, otherwise we become merely parrots of dogma, being used by our "lower selves", negative emotions like anger, pride etc, whilst convincing ourselves that we are truly striving to help humanity ("telling ourselves stories", as some Buddhists put it).
 






A Freeman

Star
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
1,453
Genesis is a very interesting (kabbalistic) document, like the rest of the Pentateuch it draws on a variety of "pagan" sources, gives new names to people, slight alterations to stories whether to focus on some different facet or to uniquely Jewish esoteric teachings. You are quoting these Bible verses to try to justify your position, specifically in relation to what I mentioned in the last post about you completely lacking respect for some very spiritual and beautiful artistic creations. In this regard your thinking is quite like that of many other cults, who use the notion that everything "outside" is evil, wrong, corrupt, depraved, filthy, wicked, demonic and such in order to keep adherents firmly within the bosom of the cult which is good, decent, honest, holy, wise, insightful, too profound for the heathen to understand. I'm a pretty open minded person when it comes to religious theories, so rather than simply dismissing your ideas like the evangelicals on here do, I decided to be open to them and try to discuss them with you because to me they looked like a form of some Gnostic ideas, for example the stuff about earth being a kind of prison.

Yet you have very fixed interpretations of allegories which in reality have a quite different significance from the way you are interpreting them. You are unwilling to even entertain the suggestion that these allegories have a different significance because I am "outside" and therefore everything I say is merely the cunning trickery of the wily devil, egotism and misguidance. A devil which, by the way, you also fail to understand the allegorical significance of.

You think that I am trembling about my petty ego being exposed by your illuminated wisdom, that I am the wicked black magician who dreads being exposed before the terrible light of public opinion. I am not trembling and I am not trying to lead you astray. I am trying to communicate as well as I possibly can to people who are caught up in the confusion of a delusional person's twisted doctrines.

What you say about truth, well in a sense I agree, I believe there is an immutable universal law, yes. I believe that there are genuine facts about reality, including some of the things I have been trying to put across to you. On the other hand as human beings our perspectives are always partial, incomplete, at best a reasonable reflection of the light - and so we should always remain open to the possibility of revising our beliefs, seeing things in a new light, otherwise we become merely parrots of dogma, being used by our "lower selves", negative emotions like anger, pride etc, whilst convincing ourselves that we are truly striving to help humanity ("telling ourselves stories", as some Buddhists put it).
Your human is still trying to argue its upside down and backward nonsense, and only making a bigger fool of itself in the process. It is the pagan sources that draw from Genesis, NOT the other way around. And now your human is pretending that it wants to discuss things, which is to say it hopes to be able to teach others about spiritual matters it knows absolutely nothing about, even after its ignorance has been repeatedly exposed. And yes, it's trying to lead anyone astray who will listen to its satanic nonsense, whether you are aware of it or not.

We ALL have a common enemy: our "selves" (our egos). It's completely intuitive to help another who is under attack from that enemy, before the enemy destroys them. Unfortunately that isn't possible though when the other is convinced that his worst enemy is his best friend, as appears to be the case with you.

The immutable universal law is found in the first five books of the Bible, which your human has conned you into believing is kabbalistic and the product of pagan stories, all of which is patently false. That Perfect Law of Liberty not only contains The Commandments, Judgments and Statutes that form the basis for the perfect system of Justice, it also contains the perfect system of governance, the perfect agricultural policy, the perfect economic policy, and the perfect healthy diet.

Those who take the time to read, study and put into practices these basic, universal principles will live and grow through the better understanding they have for our Creator, Who gave us His Law to protect us from evil and to set and keep us free.

If you would genuinely like to have a productive discussion, then please read The Way home or face The Fire and study The Law. That way we can discuss something real, instead of figments of some human's imagination.

Peace be upon you.
 






Lisa

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
17,004
So when the "cloud" overshadowed Jesus and the others at the Transfiguration and God's voice came out of it saying "This is my beloved son, listen to him", was Jesus throwing his voice into the cloud like a ventriloquist?.. :D
No, that was Yahweh, the Father, talking to His beloved Son, Jesus.
 






Tidal

Star
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
1,261
No, that was Yahweh, the Father, talking to His beloved Son, Jesus.

Sorry sweety-pie you've lost me, I thought you said earlier that Jesus was God but now you're saying some Yahweh bloke is God..:p
 






None of you

Established
Joined
Jan 17, 2020
Messages
132
Equally Yoked. - April 14

My children, I guide you always. The walking in The Way may not be always carried out, but the Guiding is always so sure. God is using you both in marvellous ways. Go on gladly. You will see.

To be a perfect gymnast you must learn balance. It is Balance and Poise, perfect Balance and Poise, I am teaching you now. This will give you power (the Force) in dealing with the lives of others, and that power (Force) is already being marvellously manifested.

Dwell with Me as the centre of your lives. Fix your whole Being (both of you) with Me as its centre. That gives you the true balance as is the case with some delicate instrument.

The vision you both have is the means of clearing the obstacles away. When My disciple sees My Purpose ahead, that very sight is the power that clears away every obstacle along that range of vision. You will both have mighty power to do this. Spiritual Light is in itself a miracle-worker.

People waste so much time in seeking to work out what they see. I declare to you that in the seeing My Purpose all is done. Truly I said to My Disciples, "I have many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now." But to you, and the two's who gather to hear Me as you do, I can declare those things now, that then I left unsaid.

Is not the message of My servant Paul now plain: "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers," because My Guidance is intensified immeasurably in power, when the two are one in desire to be with Me - but so few have understood.
 






Lisa

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
17,004
Sorry sweety-pie you've lost me, I thought you said earlier that Jesus was God but now you're saying some Yahweh bloke is God..:p
God has many names He is known by...3 persons..one God. And within those persons, God is known by different names that reflect His nature...I think this is gonna be over your head though...
 






Tidal

Star
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
1,261
..God is known by different names that reflect His nature...I think this is gonna be over your head though...

But angel, there are thousands of chickensh*t "gods" all around the world with stupid names, but Christianity is above all that nonsense because it doesn't belittle God by trying to slap a name on him.. :p
I mean, just look at these sad freaks with names-



















 






Top