Did god give you the right to murder? Did that commandment list exceptions to when murder is forbidden? That’s really all you should be asking yourself. The rest is just nonsense you continuously add in to try to confuse conversations.So, if someone's home or business is being attacked, they should ask the criminal if they intend to kill, r*pe, kidnap, or torture them and their family members first before defending themselves. That's awesome, and I'm sure you would do the same if your home was being invaded.
Regarding laws allowing lethal defense of property - you're wrong. States vary, but it is legal in many states:
"A stand-your-ground law (sometimes called "line in the sand" or "no duty to retreat" law) provides that people may use deadly force when they reasonably believe it to be necessary to defend against a threat of death, serious bodily harm, kidnapping, r*pe, or (in some jurisdictions) robbery or some other serious crimes (right of self-defense). Under such a law, people have no duty to retreat before using deadly force in self-defense, so long as they are in a place where they are lawfully present. Stand-your-ground laws cannot be invoked by someone who is the initial aggressor, or who is otherwise engaged in criminal activity.
- 35 states are stand-your-ground states, 27 by statutes providing "that there is no duty to retreat an attacker in any place in which one is lawfully present": Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, West Virginia, and Wyoming; Puerto Rico is also stand-your-ground. Of these, at least ten include "may stand his or her ground" language (Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, and South Carolina.) Pennsylvania limits the no-duty-to-retreat principle to situations where the defender is resisting attack with a deadly weapon.
- The remaining 8 of the 35 stand-your-ground states have case law/precedent or jury instructions so providing: California, Colorado, Illinois, New Mexico, Oregon, Vermont, Virginia, and Washington; the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands also falls within this category."
Regarding the Bible: Jesus Christ Himself expects people to obey the law of whatever nation they're in, or suffer the consequences, including death. Jesus does not support lawlessness, and He doesn't consider theft 'ok' as long as it's not murder. If you want to drag the Bible into this, that's fine but at least know what it actually says. Read the following very carefully -
Rom 13:1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
The 10 Commandments also clearly state you shall not steal right along with you shall not murder:
Ex 20:3 You shall have no other gods before me.
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.
7 You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.
8 Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.
12 Honor your father and mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.
13 You shall not murder.
14 You shall not commit adultery.
15 You shall not steal.
16 You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
17 You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.
Show us where in the 10 commandments theft is less than murder. I'll wait. Loving God and loving your neighbor MEANS not murdering, not stealing, not coveting, etc. Christians obey the 10 Commandments and the civil laws of whatever nation/country they're in.
Regarding your post #2,231 and posts after that: You're backpeddling... again. You said what you said, remember? It's all there. What you suggested was lawless murder, end of. It's pretty clear you believe yourself to be above the law while everyone else must cower in fear and not defend themselves against criminals.
my own personal morals are pretty clear.. don’t kill people. Saying this does not mean I’m saying people should be allowed to go rob and steal and loot and blah blah with no consequence. Just that the consequence isn’t vigilante murder. Not by the hands of citizens and not by the hands of cops. We have prisons for a reason.
edit: I never once expressed disagreement with laws that allow for use of deadly force against a deadly threat. If you murder my daughter you committed a capital crime. Capital crimes qualify for capital punishment. Try to twist that into something else if you want.. had I say steal my daughters snack pack we’d be having an entirely different conversation which you’d be absolutely correct to have. But I didn’t. Quite frankly it seems you want conservatives (and cops and politicians of a conservative bent) to be able to do whatever they want and cry about law and order only when it suits you.