George Floyd/Protests/Peace/Riots/Chaos

Hermes

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May 8, 2017
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Why should arrests need to serve as a deterrent? Locking up criminals reduces crime so arrests are useful.

What should deter people from committing crime are things like having decent morals, being accountable, acting responsibly, acknowledging you're just one member of a society and civilization, you know, having basic human decency. How about we keep arrests, and start instilling a sense of morality and accountability and responsibility for all those kids that end up living fatherless which perpetuates the cycle of crime and poverty? We could stop appraising and facilitating the stereotypical thug lifestyle that was popularized by Arnold Rothstein's offspring on MTV; convince them that guys like Snoop and the Game aren't role models you want to immitate, but that they are part of the problem. Convince them that they can achieve other successes in life other than as a basketball player or a gangsta rapper. We should stop pandering the idea that they have no control over their destiny, that they could never achieve what they want to achieve because it's fixed against them by an artificial nemesis. They should be liberated from that idea or remain defeatist, because they'll be fighting windmills.
The war on drugs is directly responsible today for the over representation of blacks in the American incarceration system. You have to view black history in America in its successive phases. From slavery to the new Jim crow.

Do you understand why school systems were created? To control delinquency and socially condition kids. So don't give me that crap about instilling a sense of morality and accountability, when that is exactly what the education system is meant to do. The public education system today should be providing the same sense of moral education to black kids as you got (if of course you went to a public school). But we both know that's not the case because the education system needs to be reformed as it doesn't work for black kids.

You have to realize how the war on drugs factors in to this as well because drugs provide a route for quick money. Black communities suffer from a lack of generational wealth which is a direct result of slavery and racist policies that made it difficult for blacks to build economic self sufficiency (tulsa riots are a prime example of how racism had played a role in preventing generational wealth in the black community).

When education fails and there is no economic recourse, working a low paying service job isn't appealing. This creates an environment for the drug trade to proliferate. The crack cocaine epidemic killed the black communities and the governments role in spreading this can be easily looked up.

Black communities have also suffered from a leadership void which again is the product of government interventions (ie, cointelpro). Lack of strong leaders has created communities with a lack of guidance or sense of direction.

To insist that this is a black culture issue and then point to the culture glorified in media is laughable. Then you like to cover up the tracks that the media is still controlled by white people that promote these stereotypes by saying its not white people but its the Jews. Last I checked they look white to me. This parts important too at an economic level because many of these white owned media promote a culture that encourages blacks to spend. They don't show them the value of buying land or owning property or equity to build wealth but rather push the idea of buying jewels or cars or other non appreciating assets. But this isn't a black culture problem this is the white man imposing the type of culture they should see. I say this because anyone with a shred of knowledge of hip hop knows the vast variety of work within the industry. Much of which is not mainstream and doesn't get the radio plays for obvious reasons. It's interesting as the colonizers used these tactics on native Americans as well by creating a need for unnecessary goods and allowing natives to destroy each other by fighting over the fur trade to be able to economically access these goods.

I can agree with some of the last points you made. Improving self worth is important for a struggling community (or individual) to improve their situation. But self worth is also tied to how you're perceived. Through successive generations a caricature has been created of the black man which black people have internalized as a truth. I think this is why black on black crime is so rampant because internalized has even ended up teaching black people to hate their blackness.
 






seekinheart

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May 15, 2017
Messages
992
The war on drugs is directly responsible today for the over representation of blacks in the American incarceration system. You have to view black history in America in its successive phases. From slavery to the new Jim crow.

Do you understand why school systems were created? To control delinquency and socially condition kids. So don't give me that crap about instilling a sense of morality and accountability, when that is exactly what the education system is meant to do. The public education system today should be providing the same sense of moral education to black kids as you got (if of course you went to a public school). But we both know that's not the case because the education system needs to be reformed as it doesn't work for black kids.

You have to realize how the war on drugs factors in to this as well because drugs provide a route for quick money. Black communities suffer from a lack of generational wealth which is a direct result of slavery and racist policies that made it difficult for blacks to build economic self sufficiency (tulsa riots are a prime example of how racism had played a role in preventing generational wealth in the black community).

When education fails and there is no economic recourse, working a low paying service job isn't appealing. This creates an environment for the drug trade to proliferate. The crack cocaine epidemic killed the black communities and the governments role in spreading this can be easily looked up.

Black communities have also suffered from a leadership void which again is the product of government interventions (ie, cointelpro). Lack of strong leaders has created communities with a lack of guidance or sense of direction.

To insist that this is a black culture issue and then point to the culture glorified in media is laughable. Then you like to cover up the tracks that the media is still controlled by white people that promote these stereotypes by saying its not white people but its the Jews. Last I checked they look white to me. This parts important too at an economic level because many of these white owned media promote a culture that encourages blacks to spend. They don't show them the value of buying land or owning property or equity to build wealth but rather push the idea of buying jewels or cars or other non appreciating assets. But this isn't a black culture problem this is the white man imposing the type of culture they should see. I say this because anyone with a shred of knowledge of hip hop knows the vast variety of work within the industry. Much of which is not mainstream and doesn't get the radio plays for obvious reasons. It's interesting as the colonizers used these tactics on native Americans as well by creating a need for unnecessary goods and allowing natives to destroy each other by fighting over the fur trade to be able to economically access these goods.

I can agree with some of the last points you made. Improving self worth is important for a struggling community (or individual) to improve their situation. But self worth is also tied to how you're perceived. Through successive generations a caricature has been created of the black man which black people have internalized as a truth. I think this is why black on black crime is so rampant because internalized has even ended up teaching black people to hate their blackness.
its not a black thing its a class thing, i know more poor white people...
 






Lisa

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Mar 13, 2017
Messages
16,931
Lol! Whatever you say..

Rate of deadly cop shootings is 70 per cent LOWER in cities with black police chiefs compared to white ones, study reveals


1593287748887.jpeg
 






Joined
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Messages
2,272
The war on drugs is directly responsible today for the over representation of blacks in the American incarceration system. You have to view black history in America in its successive phases. From slavery to the new Jim crow.
Disagree. They were doing better during Jim Crow and they were doing better because they had stable families. The War on Drugs has effected the blacks to a greater extent, but it wasn't targeted at them exclusively. Remember Woodstock and the 70s psychedelics?

Do you understand why school systems were created? To control delinquency and socially condition kids. So don't give me that crap about instilling a sense of morality and accountability, when that is exactly what the education system is meant to do.
That's not at all the purpose of the education system. Schools oughta provide children the tools to become functional members of a society in which they can succeed by teaching them how to write, how to do math, how to think correctly, etc. Education has no role in telling kids what's right, what's wrong or what to think. Parents, the extended family and the community centered around a religious institution transmit morality and a sense of accountability. That's why the destruction of the family unit and the religious insitution which emphasized the importance of said family unit was the number one agenda stemming from the illuminist philosophers, and in terms of destroying the family unit, it hit the black community the hardest, when it concerns the destruction of religion, it hit Catholics the hardest.

The public education system today should be providing the same sense of moral education to black kids as you got (if of course you went to a public school). But we both know that's not the case because the education system needs to be reformed as it doesn't work for black kids.
It's the same old reasoning. The education system isn't working for the black community, therefore the education system needs to change, while the consideration that the fault, at least partially, lies within the black community itself and the people who facilitate their status quo or degradation. It won't work by finetuning the education system for a specific group of people. If they want a different curriculum, I'd say let them have it. I'm all in favour of peaceful separation and giving them autonomy over every segment of their society, including education. But subjecting other groups of people who have no problem with the American education system just for the sake of another group who's falling behind is the exact same rationale behind school reforms that have weakened school systems all over the western world for decades. It's a bad idea.

You have to realize how the war on drugs factors in to this as well because drugs provide a route for quick money. Black communities suffer from a lack of generational wealth which is a direct result of slavery and racist policies that made it difficult for blacks to build economic self sufficiency (tulsa riots are a prime example of how racism had played a role in preventing generational wealth in the black community).
Generational wealth is very flexible. 70% of rich families lose their wealth by the 2nd generation, 90% by the 3rd. Just as there is a large dropout from the group of wealthy, there's alot of climbing-in too. The opportunity is there. It will require more effort if one doesn't have the proper connections or the inclination to do big money crime. And if it requires a little bit more effort from black people, then so be it. I have no compassion for them when I see how European farmers work on average twice as hard without getting any handouts, do practically zero crime, without turning to drugs and violence, and are forced to live in perpetual extreme poverty which has led in France to 2 farmer suicides every single day. The result of true economic oppression and governmental neglect and all without any media attention.

Drugs has been infused into society to all groups, whether it was LSD in the 70s, crack in the 80s, or heroin and other opioids right now. It hits alot of communities pretty hard. You can either mobilize against the crooked Sackler families of today, or start blaming an entire racial group and the civilization their ancestors have built. Other than than, don't be a softie on drugs, don't believe the con of legalization of drugs. They want you drunk, drugged and stoned so they can extort you without resistance. You can't fix the world if you can't fix yourself, just as you can't clean the world if you can't clean your own room. Again, the fundamental message here is personal accountability.
If one of my mates does an occasional weed, I'll let it slide. If they're hooked I'll tell them they need to change. If anyone I know does hard drugs, I play no jokes. I'll jam that stuff under their finger nails to make a point. Accountability and using basic common sense is not much to ask from adults.

When education fails and there is no economic recourse, working a low paying service job isn't appealing. This creates an environment for the drug trade to proliferate. The crack cocaine epidemic killed the black communities and the governments role in spreading this can be easily looked up. Black communities have also suffered from a leadership void which again is the product of government interventions (ie, cointelpro). Lack of strong leaders has created communities with a lack of guidance or sense of direction.
Yes, there's a lot of people in power that want the mass drunk, drugged and stoned. Add some weapons to the mix and they will reign over them while they kill each other. Doesn't take away people's own responsibilities to resist such manipulations, and the best way communities can resist these subversions is with strong family units with a strong collective moral foundation. That's the cultural way of resisting the beast, which is no more true for blacks than it is for whites or others.

To insist that this is a black culture issue and then point to the culture glorified in media is laughable. Then you like to cover up the tracks that the media is still controlled by white people that promote these stereotypes by saying its not white people but its the Jews. Last I checked they look white to me. This parts important too at an economic level because many of these white owned media promote a culture that encourages blacks to spend. They don't show them the value of buying land or owning property or equity to build wealth but rather push the idea of buying jewels or cars or other non appreciating assets. But this isn't a black culture problem this is the white man imposing the type of culture they should see. I say this because anyone with a shred of knowledge of hip hop knows the vast variety of work within the industry. Much of which is not mainstream and doesn't get the radio plays for obvious reasons. It's interesting as the colonizers used these tactics on native Americans as well by creating a need for unnecessary goods and allowing natives to destroy each other by fighting over the fur trade to be able to economically access these goods.
Yeah, no, it's still mostly Jews. Jerry Heller & Lyor Cohen a.k.a. "Little Lansky" (both critical in the creation of gangsta rap and the promotion of an anti-cop attitude among blacks), David Geffen, Jerry Moss and Alpert, Edgar Bronfman Jr., David Geffen, Leo Blavatnik, the Redstone family, ... it's basically the American Crime Syndicate that runs the entertainment industry. Or did Murder Inc. not ring any bells? Just like whites teamed up with Jews and satanists, or Jewish satanists, in the rock industry to spread (a lot of good music, but still) a degenerate culture involving drugs and sexual promiscuity to the masses, targeted mainly at white youth, while making a shedload of money, so too did black people partner Jewish satanists to spread another degenerate culture also involving drugs and sexual promiscuity, and add to that gun violence, to the masses, targeted mainly at black youth, while making a shedload of money. Am I singling out black people because they are black? Or am I identifying them because the effects on them have been worse, to make an understatement, and I don't think it's up to them to teach wider society, especially whites, how to live just and moral lives?

I can agree with some of the last points you made. Improving self worth is important for a struggling community (or individual) to improve their situation. But self worth is also tied to how you're perceived. Through successive generations a caricature has been created of the black man which black people have internalized as a truth. I think this is why black on black crime is so rampant because internalized has even ended up teaching black people to hate their blackness.
The same media has portrayed white caricatures in similar fashion, from hillbillies and rednecks to trailer trash. If certain people care about how they are perceived, give people reason to perceive you positively. Prejudice will always survive, it's not something that can be regulated.

But all I'm hearing is black people taking pride in their blackness. It's as futile as believing it's a weakness. And it's superficial. And embarassing. It makes them stagnant at best, because having a particular skin colour is not a skill set. It's they, and their liberal cheerleaders, who have blown life into a construct which had been thought extinct, namely "whiteness". Why do we all see a resurgence of people identifying as "whites"? It's because black people keep telling them, whether they are Russian, or Italian, or German, or Irish (it all doesn't matter to them, talk about racism), that they're white and that they're the enemy. When we see people protest and riot and vandalize our heritage (!) in London, Brussels, Paris, even in fucking New-Zeeland, because a black guy tripping on drugs died in Minnesota, but these same people never protest things that would negatively affect the national interest of all citizens, what does that tell us? It's telling us that the most important component of their identity is the colour of their skin. They protest in solidarity because of their blackness, not because of a sense of common citizenship, common nationality, common religious views, no ... common skin colour.

No white people, bar some fringe neo-nazi occultists, saw white as a component of their identity. It's become a component because black people and other similar-minded poc minorities keep reminding them of, and worse, blaming them for it. It is dumb, oh so fucking dumb. If they don't stop this madness, the imaginary beast they are fighting will either become a reality or they will become the beast themselves.
 






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Lisa

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The war on drugs is directly responsible today for the over representation of blacks in the American incarceration system.
I thought it was the fatherless families that was the downfall..Larry Elder..a black man thinks that’s the number one problem facing blacks..and not just blacks..

 






Joined
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I still don’t quite understand why you would say that arresting people shouldn’t serve as a deterrent in order to demonstrate that it is an effective institution. If you know you are going to be arrested for stealing and there are going to be penalties for this. It is logical to weigh this penalty with the potential benefits of stealing.

that would be when police work would evidence effectiveness within a community. If this does not appear to be an effective deterrent, then there is an imbalance somewhere so that when a person weighs their options before committing a crime, the benefits of committing the crime still outweigh the benefits of not committing the crime.

I don’t know why you said you thought your suggestions would come across as racist either. Although, you are listing many things that the modern civil rights movement pre 2000 were saying exist because of racism.

think about it, I’m sure you have some familiarity with the demographics for executive positions and you are aware that pre 2000 it was more likely for a white man to be in an executive position than a man of a different race. This is reality. It doesn’t mean that every white man lacked integrity in these positions, but it is true that they had the final say many times over whether something was produced that gave the appearance that the black community was all about the thug life.

there has been a power struggle in this industry over this image for a long time, so you also can’t say this is the only way black people are seen in media either.

your suggestions also suggest that you would agree that crime is reduced by creating educational opportunities that help correct an imbalance so to speak. So that people start being able to see that not committing crime has more benefit than committing crime because they are able to develop greater self esteem or some other positive quality.

And since your suggestions encourage creating balance, I wonder why you don’t support diverting funding from police services towards other services that would essentially help correct this imbalance?
Defunding the police sends the wrong message. I'd defund welfare for single moms instead.
 






Lisa

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Mar 13, 2017
Messages
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Hmmm...don’t crowd police car...won’t get run hurt...

Up to 12 injured as Detroit police car charges into crowd of screaming protesters before speeding away with demonstrators STILL clinging to the hood
 






Lisa

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Messages
16,931
Extortion as a lifestyle..better if the police are gone.

Black Lives Matter Organizer: 'Give Me Money or We'll Break Windows'
"You don't want 600 people to come here and destroy your business and burn it down."

It seems like this happens in all countries..you have people that love where they live and you have people that hate it and would like nothing more to get rid of life as they know it. Sometimes that’s justified..and sometimes its just another way to bring down another people to the basest level...

Iranian Ayatollah Gloats: Now It’s Americans Screaming 'Death to America!'
The Hate-America Left gives aid and comfort to the nation’s enemies.
 






seekinheart

Veteran
Joined
May 15, 2017
Messages
992
Yeah, no, it's still mostly Jews. Jerry Heller & Lyor Cohen a.k.a. "Little Lansky" (both critical in the creation of gangsta rap and the promotion of an anti-cop attitude among blacks), David Geffen, Jerry Moss and Alpert, Edgar Bronfman Jr., David Geffen, Leo Blavatnik, the Redstone family, ... it's basically the American Crime Syndicate that runs the entertainment industry. Or did Murder Inc. not ring any bells? Just like whites teamed up with Jews and satanists, or Jewish satanists, in the rock industry to spread (a lot of good music, but still) a degenerate culture involving drugs and sexual promiscuity to the masses, targeted mainly at white youth, while making a shedload of money, so too did black people partner Jewish satanists to spread another degenerate culture also involving drugs and sexual promiscuity, and add to that gun violence, to the masses, targeted mainly at black youth, while making a shedload of money. Am I singling out black people because they are black? Or am I identifying them because the effects on them have been worse, to make an understatement, and I don't think it's up to them to teach wider society, especially whites, how to live just and moral lives?
ur so right...

 






Lisa

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Mar 13, 2017
Messages
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Luckily the guys a lawyer who seems to live in a nice area..he might be able to afford to fight it if they do.

St Louis prosecutor considers charges against lawyer couple who brandished firearms at protesters outside their mansion after 'fearing for their lives'
 






justjess

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Mar 16, 2017
Messages
8,244
Luckily the guys a lawyer who seems to live in a nice area..he might be able to afford to fight it if they do.

St Louis prosecutor considers charges against lawyer couple who brandished firearms at protesters outside their mansion after 'fearing for their lives'
I thought the people in Chaz brandishing guns were bad? But the stay home protesters brandishing guns were good.. and now these people brandishing guns were good... I’m starting to see a trend here. :rolleyes:
 






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