Gay Rights ...... Civil Rights

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#41
I did answer the question....Biblically speaking we share the Gospel. Preaching the Gospel is still important.

‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3:5-7, 9‬ ‭​

What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one. I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.​


For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.​

What you want to argue is foolishness..most people in America think they know the gospel but they don’t..think they know what a Christian is all about but they don’t. It’s through God’s word that we know what we should be...can’t discount His word.
As usual the whole point is going over your head...

You still didn't answer the question though...How many individuals lives have been totally changed and transformed because of you sharing the gospel using words with others?
 





Lisa

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#42
As usual the whole point is going over your head...

You still didn't answer the question though...How many individuals lives have been totally changed and transformed because of you sharing the gospel using words with others?
I don’t think so...Jesus told us to share the Gospel, people still need to hear the gospel today. In fact people will still be proclaiming the gospel throughout the world even till the end...

Mark‬ ‭13:9-11‬ ‭
But be on your guard; for they will deliver you to the courts, and you will be flogged in the synagogues, and you will stand before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them. The gospel must first be preached to all the nations. When they arrest you and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour; for it is not you who speak, but it is the Holy Spirit.
‭‭
 





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#43
Do you think that’s really the reason people aren’t Christians...because of other Christians?

I’ve heard that too however I think people use that as an excuse not to become a Christian...they don’t really understand what becoming a Christian actually means when they think like that. They don’t think of being saved do they? Otherwise they might not get so wrapped up in the actions of people.

The gospel is a hard sell...people have to first realize they are sinners deserving of hell...no one likes to think that and if they see Christians acting how they think Christians shouldn’t act...well that just reinforces their preconceived ideas about God, hell and salvation.
Yes I do. I think there are ppl out there who have been hurt by christians and therefore refuse to have anything to do with any God they serve. As believers we have a great responsibility to treat ppl as well as we can as much as we can.

And yes they don't understand anything about Jesus or his views on life, so all they have is us.

I am not saying that it is right, but I do know many ppl who are off put with Christ because of his "followers." It is a very sad case.
 





Lisa

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#44
Yes I do. I think there are ppl out there who have been hurt by christians and therefore refuse to have anything to do with any God they serve. As believers we have a great responsibility to treat ppl as well as we can as much as we can.

And yes they don't understand anything about Jesus or his views on life, so all they have is us.

I am not saying that it is right, but I do know many ppl who are off put with Christ because of his "followers." It is a very sad case.
True, we should treat people as well as we can as much as we can but also I think when you start telling the truth that makes people mad and it changes relationships...often for the worse because people don’t want to hang out with you.

You don’t mention what the Christians did that out people off..so I really can’t comment to that. Again I think it’s an excuse to be done with God.
 





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#45
You make a fine point about projects, they are called that for a reason eh? However, just as I enjoy black quarterbacks, white running backs and other stereotype-defying endeavors of humanity, I also enjoy when TBTB's plans for social engineering go awry. For example.... I can recall that basketball hoops on courts in white-majority parts of Boston had shamrocks on their backboards, not red, black and green stickers. I respected that. Not because I wished for others to live in poverty, but at least those people were real.... they were living the struggle to exist everyday and as hard and harsh as that life may be, its important for white people to remember that they are just a touch away from that world as well...... nothing other than God almighty is guaranteed and this life is easy come. easy go. So to me, its important that white folks keep their heads in the game, even if their privilege has some sitting on the sidelines for most of the contest.
Actually, white folks, and in particular white Christian conservatives (not to be mistaken for neocons), have been ahead of the game for years because they're the ones who have been living the social engineering for decades as their Christian conservative world view has been consistently under attack. The re-emergence of nationalism is a symptom of this. Trump is a manifestation of that with his "America first" principle. The nations are under attack by a ruthless financial and political globalism (the project for global governace and destruction of national sovereignty and identity). And while ethnicity becomes more and more relevant to the debate, those who reinforce the identity politics that divide the national identity or those that conflate nationalism with racial supremacy or conflate majority privilege with white privilege, are those that play in the hands of the globalists, because the people's discontent with politics gets focused horizontally instead of vertically. These identity politics (including the "white" identity) are a manufactured trap. First of all because they camouflage the class struggle with a racial struggle (or a gender struggle if we look at feminism). Secondly because 'white' is not an identity. Neither is 'black' or 'brown' or 'yellow'. They are meaningless constructs. The primary factors of ethnicity are language and culture, which is mostly based on religion. How then does one explain that Italian Catholics and Dutch Protestants belong to the same group? How does one explain that American black Evangelicals are in the same group as Somalian Muslims? It's a complete fraud and people need to wake up from this scam.
 





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#46
True, we should treat people as well as we can as much as we can but also I think when you start telling the truth that makes people mad and it changes relationships...often for the worse because people don’t want to hang out with you.

You don’t mention what the Christians did that out people off..so I really can’t comment to that. Again I think it’s an excuse to be done with God.
The ppl who are most off put with God/Jesus are the ones who have been told they are going to hell for a particular action. Now we know if you do not believe in Jesus as the son of God you will not go to heaven, but running around willy nilly telling people they are hell bound can really hurt (especially as a child)


Another frequent complaint is that Christians have seemed to be cold , harsh and distant. Not loving gentle or kind. After meeting with these so called christians the individuals felt that what ever God they worshipped was not someone they would like to meet.

Ultimately it is an excuse. But I think it is a pretty good one. Humans typically react off of first impressions. Many christians leave a sour taste in the mouths of the "unclean, immoral, or hell bound," ppl they have labeled.
 





Lisa

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#47
The ppl who are most off put with God/Jesus are the ones who have been told they are going to hell for a particular action. Now we know if you do not believe in Jesus as the son of God you will not go to heaven, but running around willy nilly telling people they are hell bound can really hurt (especially as a child)


Another frequent complaint is that Christians have seemed to be cold , harsh and distant. Not loving gentle or kind. After meeting with these so called christians the individuals felt that what ever God they worshipped was not someone they would like to meet.

Ultimately it is an excuse. But I think it is a pretty good one. Humans typically react off of first impressions. Many christians leave a sour taste in the mouths of the "unclean, immoral, or hell bound," ppl they have labeled.
Sure..but are they going to hell for sin? Is telling a homosexual they are going to be thrown into the lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth wrong? I would say it is if you don’t give them Jesus too..there is a way out of that punishment. Christians are just people who believed that they are saved by believing in Jesus sacrifice for them, which means that we also had to believe that we were sinners first.

Let me ask you...is God only loving, gentle and kind? I think we can agree that some of God’s methods seem to us to be harsh, unloving and cold. Like people say...who has their Son sacrifice Himself?

I think those words would have more meaning if used in some sort of context..we all have our ideas about what loving, gentle and kind are and what it means to us.
In another thread I am often spoken of as unloving and cold because I don’t think it’s particularly loving to let people sleep in tents on the sidewalk...

No, its not a good excuse...most excuses aren’t good ones are they? Will they come up before God and say..well its your people that turned me off of You? Reminds me of Adam telling God..it was the woman you gave me...that doesn’t fly.

Many Christians leave a bad taste because they stand up for what is right..lets be clear about that. If a Christian says its wrong to be homosexual than they are branded..if they say its wrong to kill the unborn, they are branded...Christians are right to say those things, since they are Biblically right.
 





Lurking009

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#48
While I agree there are wonderful examples of true genuine Christians, at least here in America, they are greatly outnumbered by the hypocritical, judgemental and plan old apathetic Christians. When it comes to actually loving our neighbor as ourselves and living out what Jesus said (Matthew 25:31-46, and Matthew 5 come to mind) it's somewhat difficult to find Christians willing to inconvenience their lifestyle to do what Jesus actually taught.

I also find it contradictory to Jesus words to imply that unbelievers have less of an excuse to believe, then Christians have to actually do what Jesus said.
Luke 12:
47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

I also find it contradictory to the Bible to claim God puts the responsibility on men to run to him and seek him out, when it makes it clear that only the spirit of God can draw somebody towards Christ. It just also happens that the bible clearly shows the spirit of God works through believers to draw others to him. So I would say the responsibility lies more with us who believe.

The reason most people do not come to Christ, is becuase no Christian has ever made a sincere attempt to bless them and meet a need in their life. Sure they have been preached at and been told the gospel with words, but most have never seen it demonstrated by actions. As St. Francis of Assisi said "Preach the Gospel at all times. When necessary, use words". Unfortunatley most Christians have it backwards and preach with words at all times and, only when it absolutley does not inconvenince their lifestyle, might once in a great while demonstrate the gospel though actions and deeds.

Your post shows absolutely zero compassion for those who have been hurt and wounded by religion and just feeds the stereotypical image the world has of Christians being hateful and judgemental.
You've taken Luke 12 way out of context: It's talking about 2 servants [believers, followers] - one who knows much and therefore should know better, and one who doesn't know much yet. This is not talking about a believer and an unbeliever.

You paint with a really wide brush in saying people don't come to Christ because NO Christian has ever made a sincere attempt to meet needs. Millions of true Christians do wonderful things in the name of Christ every day, but their works are often ignored or ridiculed because they are Christian and their works come with the gospel message.

The Word of God isn't tolerance towards sin, and godly compassion means telling the inconvenient truth. The Gospel encompasses both law and grace. If the law did not exist, there would be no judgment. If grace and faith did not exist, there would be no salvation from judgment. The world hates the message that there will be punishment for rejecting Christ and sinning against Him, but that doesn't make the message itself hateful. The message is ultimately love, grace, and eternal salvation.

St. Francis of Assisi was not Christ, by the way. Good works accompany true faith, but they accomplish nothing without preaching the gospel, which is power of God for salvation:

2 Thess 2:13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. 14 He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

Eph 1:11 In Him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of His will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of His glory. 13 And you were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession – to the praise of His glory.

Rom 10:14 How, then, can they call on the One they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

Rom 1:16 I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

Rom 10:17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.

Mark 1:14-15 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

1 Cor 15:1 Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ dies for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that He was buried, that He was raised was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve.

Jn 3:14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 13 that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. 18 Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.


Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in Himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which He put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near.

Heb 13:7 Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. 8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. 9 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.

2 Tim 4:1 In the presence of God and Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of His appearing and His kingdom, I give you this charge: 23 Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke, and encourage – with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.


The undeniable pattern is to preach the gospel, in season and out. My original point: Yes, there are many hypocrites, false churches, false teachers and false prophets - which Christ very clearly warned us about. There will be no excuses on Judgment Day.
 





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#49
Sure..but are they going to hell for sin? Is telling a homosexual they are going to be thrown into the lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth wrong? I would say it is if you don’t give them Jesus too..there is a way out of that punishment. Christians are just people who believed that they are saved by believing in Jesus sacrifice for them, which means that we also had to believe that we were sinners first.

Let me ask you...is God only loving, gentle and kind? I think we can agree that some of God’s methods seem to us to be harsh, unloving and cold. Like people say...who has their Son sacrifice Himself?

I think those words would have more meaning if used in some sort of context..we all have our ideas about what loving, gentle and kind are and what it means to us.
In another thread I am often spoken of as unloving and cold because I don’t think it’s particularly loving to let people sleep in tents on the sidewalk...

No, its not a good excuse...most excuses aren’t good ones are they? Will they come up before God and say..well its your people that turned me off of You? Reminds me of Adam telling God..it was the woman you gave me...that doesn’t fly.

Many Christians leave a bad taste because they stand up for what is right..lets be clear about that. If a Christian says its wrong to be homosexual than they are branded..if they say its wrong to kill the unborn, they are branded...Christians are right to say those things, since they are Biblically right.
I don't recall Jesus walking around pointing his fingers and saying you are going to hell. The ppl he was the most aggressive with were the pharasees.

If "telling the truth," moves ppl furhter away from God, I am going to try something else. It is not my job to tell ppl that they are going to hell. I would much rather show them the love of God. Sin does not get you to hell, the disbelief of Christ as the son of God does.

I am all about telling the truth, but we must be careful about what we say and how we say it.

I feel you though, I do