Gavin McInnes In His Own Words: Proud Boys Engage In Violence For Fun

Etagloc

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#1


The conservatives have given up whatever moral principles they may have stood for and at this point they seem to merely be a front for white nationalism... rather than opposing degeneracy, they themselves have become degenerate...... and now they too have gone the same route as Antifa so it can no longer be said only the left has gone Antifa.... now both sides have gone that route..... proof the whole left-right thing is a dead end and the only reasonable thing is to oppose them both and play them against each other..... I don't like Antifa but Antifa at least are not white nationalists..... I wonder if something will happen to Gavin McInnes..... I like Antifa more than him, though I'm not for Antifa.... the conservatives have basically nothing to stand on.... their whole platform at this point is basically white nationalism.... they stand for nothing that deserves to see continuation.... and that which won't see continuation.... with how the right has moved, the left has become the lesser of two evils now, as I see it...... the right has become degenerate and the only justification for its existence was opposing degeneracy..... so its existence isn't really justified...... I don't mean the existence of people- I mean the existence of the right as a movement... it should cease to exist.
 





Lurking009

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#2


The conservatives have given up whatever moral principles they may have stood for and at this point they seem to merely be a front for white nationalism... rather than opposing degeneracy, they themselves have become degenerate...... and now they too have gone the same route as Antifa so it can no longer be said only the left has gone Antifa.... now both sides have gone that route..... proof the whole left-right thing is a dead end and the only reasonable thing is to oppose them both and play them against each other..... I don't like Antifa but Antifa at least are not white nationalists..... I wonder if something will happen to Gavin McInnes..... I like Antifa more than him, though I'm not for Antifa.... the conservatives have basically nothing to stand on.... their whole platform at this point is basically white nationalism.... they stand for nothing that deserves to see continuation.... and that which won't see continuation.... with how the right has moved, the left has become the lesser of two evils now, as I see it...... the right has become degenerate and the only justification for its existence was opposing degeneracy..... so its existence isn't really justified...... I don't mean the existence of people- I mean the existence of the right as a movement... it should cease to exist.
Would you mind defining who you mean by conservatives? No one I know who is conservative would ever support this group, and I'm not aware of any conservative politicians supporting them, either.

The conservative platform is pretty clear: uphold the constitution, lower taxes, less government and government regulation, free speech, fair deals for America on the global front, jobs, border security, defeat ISIS. White nationalism has nothing to do with that platform.
 





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Etagloc

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#3
Would you mind defining who you mean by conservatives? No one I know who is conservative would ever support this group, and I'm not aware of any conservative politicians supporting them, either.

The conservative platform is pretty clear: uphold the constitution, lower taxes, less government and government regulation, free speech, fair deals for America on the global front, jobs, border security, defeat ISIS. White nationalism has nothing to do with that platform.
I respect that platform. For a lot of every-day conservatives, that might actually be the platform. If that's what you believe in, I respect you and I respect what you follow.

I'm from the South and I grew up around conservatives and I'm used to conservatives.

For me personally, I think my platform if I was going to be on a conservative platform would be: anti-abortion, get rid of homosexual "marriage" (marriage is between man and woman), small government like you said, reduce taxes I think as much as possible, promote family values, beat ISIS (definitely, I'm for that)-

I mean that's the sort of conservativism I grew up around. And I respect that. I respect your Average Joe conservatives who truly do believe in that sort of platform. I'm definitely not against those people.

And it might be that those are the silent majority. I don't live in a conservative area so I don't really have a finger on the pulse of the conservative masses. It could be that the alt-right are actually just a vocal minority. Your old-school, traditional "small government conservative types- I think that sort of thing is perfectly reasonable and I have no problem with it. I'm fine with the "small government" stuff- no problem with that at all.

Even someone like Ted Cruz, for example. You look at Ted Cruz- I get the impression, he's your more old-school type conservative. Thomas Sowell, for example- I like him. The more dignified, old-school types- I don't mind them. But you look at Trump, for example. Before he got elected, I was reading The Federalist. They were sort of dignified, old-school, sort of religious-right type thing. When Trump turned out to be the candidate- they were horrified. I remember that moment within the conservative camp. I don't know how they feel at this point but if we believe that conservatism really does stand for moral principles- I think it follows that Trump is the abandonment of any such principles. I don't think he has any principles at all.

And if we say there's no connection with Trump and white nationalism.... ehh.... I mean I'm thinking about the well-being of minorities in the South. I've talked to people and I do think there has been an emboldening of white nationalists. I think there is a decline of society taking place and left and right are getting more extreme as a symptom. I think McInnes basically advocates for right-wing terrorism. There's already the left-wing terrorism... I have zero desire to see a growth of white nationalist terrorism. If I have to accept that either side is going to go that route.... I would rather see Antifa than a growth of white nationalist terrorists.
 





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#4
I concur. Most conservatives probably have no clue who the proud boys are.

Don't let stuff that's popular on Twitter fool you. They make a lot of noise but are a fringe group.
 





Etagloc

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#5
I concur. Most conservatives probably have no clue who the proud boys are.

Don't let stuff that's popular on Twitter fool you. They make a lot of noise but are a fringe group.
I have no idea what's popular on Twitter. I don't have a twitter.

This is not really about the Proud Boys. It's bigger than them. You cannot honestly tell me that the right is not pushing white nationalism. They are indicative of a larger trend.
 





Lurking009

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#6
I respect that platform. For a lot of every-day conservatives, that might actually be the platform. If that's what you believe in, I respect you and I respect what you follow.

I'm from the South and I grew up around conservatives and I'm used to conservatives.

For me personally, I think my platform if I was going to be on a conservative platform would be: anti-abortion, get rid of homosexual "marriage" (marriage is between man and woman), small government like you said, reduce taxes I think as much as possible, promote family values, beat ISIS (definitely, I'm for that)-

I mean that's the sort of conservativism I grew up around. And I respect that. I respect your Average Joe conservatives who truly do believe in that sort of platform. I'm definitely not against those people.

And it might be that those are the silent majority. I don't live in a conservative area so I don't really have a finger on the pulse of the conservative masses. It could be that the alt-right are actually just a vocal minority. Your old-school, traditional "small government conservative types- I think that sort of thing is perfectly reasonable and I have no problem with it. I'm fine with the "small government" stuff- no problem with that at all.

Even someone like Ted Cruz, for example. You look at Ted Cruz- I get the impression, he's your more old-school type conservative. Thomas Sowell, for example- I like him. The more dignified, old-school types- I don't mind them. But you look at Trump, for example. Before he got elected, I was reading The Federalist. They were sort of dignified, old-school, sort of religious-right type thing. When Trump turned out to be the candidate- they were horrified. I remember that moment within the conservative camp. I don't know how they feel at this point but if we believe that conservatism really does stand for moral principles- I think it follows that Trump is the abandonment of any such principles. I don't think he has any principles at all.

And if we say there's no connection with Trump and white nationalism.... ehh.... I mean I'm thinking about the well-being of minorities in the South. I've talked to people and I do think there has been an emboldening of white nationalists. I think there is a decline of society taking place and left and right are getting more extreme as a symptom. I think McInnes basically advocates for right-wing terrorism. There's already the left-wing terrorism... I have zero desire to see a growth of white nationalist terrorism. If I have to accept that either side is going to go that route.... I would rather see Antifa than a growth of white nationalist terrorists.
First off, thank you for the well-reasoned and non-hysterical reply, which seems a bit rare on this forum. I'm being totally straight up when I say I don't hear or see white nationalism being pushed in any conservative circles I know and am familiar with, and I believe there are millions in the 'silent majority' category who experience the same thing as me. The conservative policies I outlined above - which is basically Trump's whole platform - benefit U.S. citizens of all races and all colors. That's intentional since true conservatives don't see race or color - we see fellow human beings created by God. I honestly don't see how anyone comes to the conclusion of 'white nationalism' from that platform. I'm not saying Trump is perfect or even likable, but I'm in agreement with most of his admin's policies so far because they help everyone - from jobs to economy to security for tax-paying citizens. Those are good things.

Have you considered the radical white natl. groups have become emboldened because of the radical left? Radical groups can only push, demand, scream, and destroy so much before another radical group will push back in an equal manner. That's the only valid connection I see so far.
 





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#7
I have no idea what's popular on Twitter. I don't have a twitter.

This is not really about the Proud Boys. It's bigger than them. You cannot honestly tell me that the right is not pushing white nationalism. They are indicative of a larger trend.
Idk if I would go that far yet. My theory is that they are traditionalists. So they arent racist, but they arent sensitive to those type of issues.

You know? Not being sensitive or caring about every issue doesnt make you racist.
 





Etagloc

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#9
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#10
I concur. Most conservatives probably have no clue who the proud boys are.

Don't let stuff that's popular on Twitter fool you. They make a lot of noise but are a fringe group.
Oh yeah? Then why were they at an official GOP function?


Here’s sitting representative Steve King

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.es...rsed-a-white-supremacist-political-candidate/

This is far from the fringe. This is the normal and if you think we’ve gone past a point where obvious racism won’t come back you’re either horribly naive or dishonest.
 





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#12
Gavin Mcinnes is weird on top of being a casual POS. He put a dildo up his butt on his show to “trigger Muslims”, “own libs” and prove his approval of gay sex although he doesn’t agree with gay marriage because it’s against christian beliefs. He’s a mess
 





Etagloc

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#14
First off, thank you for the well-reasoned and non-hysterical reply, which seems a bit rare on this forum. I'm being totally straight up when I say I don't hear or see white nationalism being pushed in any conservative circles I know and am familiar with, and I believe there are millions in the 'silent majority' category who experience the same thing as me. The conservative policies I outlined above - which is basically Trump's whole platform - benefit U.S. citizens of all races and all colors. That's intentional since true conservatives don't see race or color - we see fellow human beings created by God. I honestly don't see how anyone comes to the conclusion of 'white nationalism' from that platform. I'm not saying Trump is perfect or even likable, but I'm in agreement with most of his admin's policies so far because they help everyone - from jobs to economy to security for tax-paying citizens. Those are good things.

Have you considered the radical white natl. groups have become emboldened because of the radical left? Radical groups can only push, demand, scream, and destroy so much before another radical group will push back in an equal manner. That's the only valid connection I see so far.
I appreciate the non-hysterics from your end as well. However, I have to differ- and it's nothing personal.

Honestly, what I'm seeing is what Descartes described. I think it was in Discourse on the Method where he explained- the best person to judge a matter is the person who is personally involved in it. For example, a ship-builder is best going to understand ship-building. Much more so than, for example, an academic who has never been involved in the trade- or say a commentator who has never been involved in the trade. If you want to understand the daily reality of ship building- who should you go to? Obviously, you won't learn the trade from the academic or a commentator. You have to go to the actual ship builder.

And so.... it is what it is. Unfortunately, the rhetoric- is not in touch with the boots on the ground reality of what minorities experience. To say that Trump has not emboldened white nationalists... is either dishonest or out of touch with the boots on the ground reality.

This out of touch rhetoric.... is useless. Go to the hood. Go to the hood and try selling them that. Firstly, no one will take you seriously. Secondly, people might get hostile. It might get ugly. You can't go to certain places and push that kind of narrative.

It's a feel-good narrative for white people- and I hate to say that but it's the plain truth. It is completely alien to the experiences and genuine concern for the well-being of minorities.

My concern is not to try to make white people feel guilty, ashamed or to antagonize them. Or to say "check your privilege" or anything like that. I'm simply concerned for people's well-being. And Allah is my Witness and my Judge.

I think there did come a time when the left (I'm talking late in the Obama years) was going too far and when certain people were simply antagonizing others for being white. I saw it. I'm not out to antagonize anyone or make anyone feel guilty or ashamed. And this post is an attack on ideas- not on people, not on individuals. This nothing personal against anyone.

All that to the side- it's a crime to bear false witness. It is a crime in the eyes of God.

If I see a crime taking place, I might not say anything. If I see a poor person stealing something... I might look the other way, as much as it might upset me. But if I see a crime take place, get pulled to the side and they ask me what happened... if I claim nothing happened and I cover the crime, I think that makes me an accomplice. If I see a murder and they question me and I claim "nah he didn't do it"- for all intents and purposes I'm in on it. At that point, I'm an accomplice and I should maybe be locked up too.

There's these really interesting books Regis Debray wrote about his experiences with Che Guevara. If you look it up, they should be easy to find- they're very interesting. Anyways, the problem Che had was- the locals in Bolivia weren't collaborating with him and his guerrillas. He needed civilians to cooperate with him and his guerrillas. Not everyone does the combat- not directly. Someone has to supply the medical supplies, someone has to supply food, etc. Some people give information, etc. This is all described in the Regis Debray books, this isn't any sort of esoteric knowledge.

It's the same with the white nationalists and the "huh? white nationalism?? what white nationalism? I don't see any white nationalism" crowd. I think the latter function as a class of collaborators. And once they've gone that route... once they're in, I don't expect them to change their story. I think they have chosen a side and I don't expect them to confess and come out into the open.
 





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#15
That last line is a strawman. That is not the argument being made at all. It's common knowledge and well-documented that they are white nationalists.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/proud-boys
That article, and the men quoted within it, are the embodiment, and the hired agents, of state-sponsored Propaganda, respectively.

Sort of like agent provocateurs.

The weak /weak-principled people who follow them are (imo) dangerous because they are hiding behind a group-- they're loaded with fear of the groups they hate. Especially the misogynists. :rolleyes:

Very fringe-y. But very useful to create in-fighting between American citizens.

More importantly, Conservatives traditionally support families, a good work ethic, private ownership and privacy.. this crap is meant to undermine the people who still believe in those things, because they are a serious threat to the State.
 





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#16
That article, and the men quoted within it, are the embodiment, and the hired agents, of state-sponsored Propaganda, respectively.

Sort of like agent provocateurs.

The weak /weak-principled people who follow them are (imo) dangerous because they are hiding behind a group-- they're loaded with fear of the groups they hate. Especially the misogynists. :rolleyes:

Very fringe-y. But very useful to create in-fighting between American citizens.

More importantly, Conservatives traditionally support families, a good work ethic, private ownership and privacy.. this crap is meant to undermine the people who still believe in those things, because they are a serious threat to the State.
They are not the fringe. This is now mainstream conservatism. Its funny that you think private property is a threat to the State. The State enforces illegal property rights for the rich. The only thing the state fears is Anarchy.
 





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#17
They are not the fringe. This is now mainstream conservatism. Its funny that you think private property is a threat to the State. The State enforces illegal property rights for the rich. The only thing the state fears is Anarchy.
I disagree.

The State enforces illegal rights for *their* people.. not regular citizens. Traditionally, conservatives dont think the State should have that kind of power.

This is an argument over a label-- you can call them Republicans, but the behavior itself doesn't fit the definition of conservative.
 





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#18
I disagree.

The State enforces illegal rights for *their* people.. not regular citizens. Traditionally, conservatives dont think the State should have that kind of power.

This is an argument over a label-- you can call them Republicans, but the behavior itself doesn't fit the definition of conservative.
Who would you call a conservative? Ron Paul? He's another white nationalist. So called anti-state conservatives/libertarians are just an authoritarian fist in a libertarian glove.
 





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#19
[QUOTE="Lurking009, post: 165557, member: 2381]

Have you considered the radical white natl. groups have become emboldened because of the radical left? Radical groups can only push, demand, scream, and destroy so much before another radical group will push back in an equal manner. That's the only valid connection I see so far.[/QUOTE]

This is what I have been thinking lately. It is like they are feeding each other and the rest of us are just getting caught in the cross fire.

It makes me want to be like Tony Curtis walking through the pie fight in this old movie I used to love when I was younger.


Look at tony curtis’ clothes. They are pristine. This is my metaphor for politics rights now. I want to be able to be in the room without getting all covered in cake.
 





Etagloc

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#20
Have you considered the radical white natl. groups have become emboldened because of the radical left? Radical groups can only push, demand, scream, and destroy so much before another radical group will push back in an equal manner.
That is a valid point and I do agree with that. People did start to go too far during the Obama years imo.

More importantly, Conservatives traditionally support families, a good work ethic, private ownership and privacy.. this crap is meant to undermine the people who still believe in those things, because they are a serious threat to the State.
I'm in favor of all those things.

I think of how in the Cold War in Latin America (just to use history I'm somewhat familiar with).... you would have the guerrillas mixing with villagers. When the governments would go and try to go after the guerrillas... they wouldn't know who are the guerrillas and who are just the civilians. They don't know which are the guerrillas, which are supporting the guerrillas and which are just the innocent villagers caught in the middle.

That's what this makes me think of. You would have incidents where the armies would attack villagers because- they didn't know who are the guerrillas, who are the ones supporting the guerrillas and who are the ones just going about their business.

That article, and the men quoted within it, are the embodiment, and the hired agents, of state-sponsored Propaganda, respectively.



Sort of like agent provocateurs.
I think you might be right- I believe that they might be agent provocateurs. The whole alt-right thing.... it very well could be directed by agent provocateurs. I don't doubt that at all.

And if that's the case- I definitely think it's an effective strategy. If that's really what's happened- those are clever evil people. Because- I think unfortunately, things are moving in such a way where... is conservatism a front for white nationalism? Is all the "small government, traditional values" talk just smokescreen? Is conservatism about traditional values?

Things have gotten to where it seems blurry.

I'm looking at it like where you have the guerrillas mixing with the villagers and I'm thinking "I'm sorry but we need to relocate the villagers, they need to evacuate- these guerrillas have to be shut down". And I hate it. I really hate it. But I would rather let Antifa and Antifa types take over than allow for white nationalists. I just got a call talking about the racism someone's been seeing. And I've been hearing from multiple people about the racism they've been seeing.

I think this stuff was fringe. I think in the George Bush days- this stuff was fringe. Conservatives are not homogenous, as I see it. You've always had different groups. You'd have the Ron Paul libertarian types (and I don't think Ron Paul is white nationalist at all). You'd have your Christian conservatives, who I basically see as my cousins and I personally like them. You'd have your "small government, traditional values" folk. And yes there was a white nationalist element but I think they were fringe. I won't deny they existed- but they were fringe.

And hopefully they're still fringe in terms of support- but I think they are taking over the movement. I think they're moving from the fringe to the center. And it might not be based on what the masses want- it might be orchestrated from the top. But I think it is a situation and I think it does need to be addressed.

very useful to create in-fighting between American citizens.
Unfortunately, I think that's true. I think it is being engineered deliberately for that very reason.