Feminist Lies That Are Making Women Miserable

[manama]

Yeah jess should probably just speak for you at this point...

We are saying it because it is true. You just look stupid at this point because you are trying to ignore something that is a historical fact just so you can parrot "hurr durr traditions" at this point.

 

[Cintra]

Then why do YOU personally seek to still personalize valid critique?

Do you think society would be the same if there was just as much outlet dedicating time and resources to reach women informing them of their value to society in a traditional role as there is for the media and public indoctrination system gloating at how much of a great thing and success women in the work force now is for equality? Maybe if enough women realized how much value to society, their children, and husbands that a family orientated existence poses they may be persuaded and could mobilize and advocate to have the economy be reformed and dictated by that rather than their role become dictated by the economy.

Most women have only heard how great it is for them they have the same opportunities as men to work. They are so blinded and overwhelmed by this notion that no thought is given into how beneficial to society and even their own welfare that such a life could provide.

I am not personalising anything. I am not sure what you mean by that.
I am a woman, I speak as a woman. You are telling women what does and doesn't make hem happy.
To that extent it is personal, other than that no, not really.

Your original post seemed to me to make numerous assumptions that I didn't agree with.

You also seem to uses the word feminist as a sort of insult, to slur anyone who disagrees with you.
You use the word like a weapon and wield it with careless abandonment.
You tried to stick that label on me. I rejected it.

There never was a time when women were not part of the workforce.
The idea of the ideal family is a sentimental victorian concept that applied only to the upper classes, was a male status symbol, and relied on a lot of working class women working to enable it.

In the 50s they tried to sell the ideal to the general populace, with a variety of labor saving devices which did away with the need for servants.
Now every man could have a pet woman waiting at home in a negligee.

A lot of women found this both demeaning and isolating.
Some stuck their heads in the oven, others fought for equality.

 

[justjess]

That's pretty hypocritical considering nobody here even really bothered to address and respond specifically to any of the points brought up in the original post. Did you, or did you guys gloss at the title and put in your two cents with that? You attribute valid and articulated points(nevermind that you didnt even address the ones in the OP) I made to whining which is pretty intolerant and very unaccepting(there are those words again) of valid critique. Intolerance appears pretty at large here, but its not by feminist protesters. Two of the three women that dialoged with me were open feminists and the few women that did participate here discounted the viewpoints of everything I said and said in the OP and were too busy personalizing objections. That's hypocrisy and there was no interest on their part to actually engage me or the idea of potentially harmful social aspects belonging to feminism... They were too busy engaging their emotions to actually engage me constructively and the points made. Btw its hard to move unto solutions in this forum with women here when they cant even first accept the idea that the feminist movement is a problem. I cant speak solutions with people who wont first open up to accepting that feminism is a problem to begin with. The IR is not to blame for the issues and bullheadedness I am dealing with here. That is effectively the whole anti male females are oppressed feminist pitch that came with it, the same pitch that has to be dealt with first before women can finally get over these preconceived ideas. The IR didnt create this mentality you see here. The feminist campaign did. That is what you have to address first before you can talk solutions.... You cant even begin to have a constructive conversation leading into anything IR related when any objection to feminism is first met with "stop trying to oppress me, because I am a woman." You can blame feminism for this victim mentality not the IR. Some here are hypocrites and too proud to admit that the very feminist movement you guys support has actually ended up hurting most women, then children, the husbands, and then families and in result society. Maybe they can send in some other feminists here and ones that will actually bother to address the OP. Until then I suppose itll be business and repetition as normal with the usual campus feminists...

No one here is anti male. If I disagree with the entire premise of your op - that women are miserable - what exactly is the point of going through it with a fine picked comb? The article can’t prove women are miserable anymore than I can prove they aren’t. Misery is subjective. I am a woman and I am not miserable. The other women in this thread are not miserable. That’s enough to discount the premise of an op that makes a claim that all women are miserable. I’m not going to get into reasons why women are miserable if the only women here are not miserable. It doesn’t even make sense.

you are blaming the effects of our economic system on a movement that sought to give women rights within that economic system. Women have always worked - feminism wasn’t so that they could work. It was so that they could work in safer environments, with fair pay, and have access to better jobs. On top of a million other things that had nothing to do with work.

instead of trying to find agreement on the problems we see and finding a solution you are intent on arguing over what caused them while ignoring any possible explanation that doesn’t put the full weight of responsibility on women’s backs. Not me. I’ve been respectful to you. Are you really going to say I haven’t?

I don’t hate men - I have a husband and a son so hating men would be absurd. I highly doubt any of the women commenting in this thread hate men. Maybe one. But you keep insisting that’s the issue. It’s not.

I have told you (or someone else I can’t be sure) before that if you paid women and gave them SS credits for the years they stayed home to care for children or elderly parents or sick relatives you’d eliminate many of the issues which lead women who’d rather stay home to enter the workforce instead. I have mentioned here that there are plenty of ways to support families that don’t hinge on taking away women’s rights and may result in a more natural realignment to what your looking for... but you dismiss it all because I refuse to engage with an op that makes sensational untrue and exaggerated claims. Suit yourself.

 

[Lyfe]

We are saying it because it is true. You just look stupid at this point because you are trying to ignore something that is a historical fact just so you can parrot "hurr durr traditions" at this point.

There was a psychology and long list of rhetoric that women were fed that eased them more comfortably into the work force. It helped undermine the social stigma that would have otherwise impeded such a fluid transition. It shaped female thought. This psychology and the rhetoric deserves critique on its effects on society. How did that reshaping of female thought affect society? The IR would not have become what it did if it didn't have the new psychology and reshaping of perception and female thought to backbone it to get more women working and get society ok with more women working. The question is how did that psychology affect social elements in society today like the family, marriage, and children?

..in turn how does that effect the state of mental health in society on an individual basis?

 

[justjess]

There was a psychology and long list of rhetoric that women were fed that eased them more comfortably into the work force. It helped undermine the social stigma that would have otherwise impeded such a fluid transition. It shaped female thought. This psychology and the rhetoric deserves critique on its effects on society. How did that reshaping of female thought affect society? The IR would not have become what it did if it didn't have the new psychology and reshaping of perception and female thought to backbone it to get more women working and get society ok with more women working. The question is how did that psychology affect social elements in society today like the family, marriage, and children?

THEY WERE ALREADY IN THE WORKFORCE LONG BEFORE FEMINISM CAME ABOUT. Women have ALWAYS been in the workforce. Do you not get this?

the IR changed the workforce from a family economy to an industrial economy where people of both sexes were forced to take jobs OUTSIDE THE HOME for the first time in mass numbers. Feminism came AFTER this.

 

[Lyfe]

THEY WERE ALREADY IN THE WORKFORCE LONG BEFORE FEMINISM CAME ABOUT.

Yeah... and what was the overall view and general consensus of that back then as opposed to what it became after feminism? It changed peoples perceptions of it no?

 

[Lyfe]

Women were already working, but the question is what was society's and even women's views of themselves and working and family life back then as opposed to what it is now post feminism?

 

[Cintra]

Women were already working, but the question is what was society's and even women's views of themselves and working and family life back then as opposed to what it is now post feminism?

Even womens views?

 

[Cintra]

There was a psychology and long list of rhetoric that women were fed that eased them more comfortably into the work force. It helped undermine the social stigma that would have otherwise impeded such a fluid transition. It shaped female thought. This psychology and the rhetoric deserves critique on its effects on society. How did that reshaping of female thought affect society? The IR would not have become what it did if it didn't have the new psychology and reshaping of perception and female thought to backbone it to get more women working and get society ok with more women working. The question is how did that psychology affect social elements in society today like the family, marriage, and children?

..in turn how does that effect the state of mental health in society on an individual basis?

When was this agenda pushed on society?
What generations of women were subjected to this mental manipulation?

Dates please.

 

[justjess]

Women were already working, but the question is what was society's and even women's views of themselves and working and family life back then as opposed to what it is now post feminism?

The entire mentality about work - for men and women - was way more fluid pre IR. Your trying to ascribe modern mentalities and values and positions to people who lived in an entirely different world... that doesn’t work because it’s unworkable.

Pre IR things were more communal - extended families and close relations with neighbors, most work occurred in the home, women worked alongside their husbands and children learned trades and skills from their parents. Some women worked outside the home or picked up outside employment from home to supplement wages - no one thought badly of any of this because that’s just what it was and how people survived. The elite classes made this whole housewife ideal mythology well after both the IR AND FEMINISM. Your arguing in favor of something that never existed for the vast majority of people.

I agree - PRE IR was better in many ways then modern society, in other ways not at all. We are capable of taking the best from both situations and making something truly workable and as close to ideal as possible for families - men, women and children. But you don’t care about that - just send women back to the kitchen. That’s your answer.

 

[Lyfe]

What women believed to be their purpose in life, indentity in society, how they relate to the world, and their view of themselves in that regard has changed post feminism. That is social engineering. Women were already working, but their mind and society's mind was completely changed to accomidate a more fluid transition as you say.

 

[Cintra]

What women believed to be their purpose in life, indentity in society, how they relate to the world, and their view of themselves in that regard has changed post feminism. That is social engineering. Women were already working, but their mind and society's mind was completely changed to accomidate a more fluid transition as you say.

So women realised they could have choices, and be valued for those choices, instead of being forced into a role demanded of them by a partiarchy that perceived them as property passing from father to husband, created to cater for the needs of men?

Is that what you are saying?

 

[justjess]

What women believed to be their purpose in life, indentity in society, how they relate to the world, and their view of themselves in that regard has changed post feminism. That is social engineering. Women were already working, but their mind and society's mind was completely changed to accomidate a more fluid transition as you say.

How do you know what women in the 1700’s viewed to be their purpose in life or their identity? Women were never stay at home moms, period. So why would they have viewed that as their purpose? How do you explain them signing up for feminism if this was actually the case?

and no - it was more fluid BEFORE the Ir, not after. I’m going to say this very kindly... I’ve studied families in depth from every conceivable discipline out there for decades now. If I am telling you something it is because it has been fully researched and contemplated from every possible angle in my own mind and then fleshed out with actual data and scholarly information. You are wrong. It doesn’t even matter that your wrong in the grand scheme except you apparently don’t care about actual solutions that would help families, only solutions that would confirm your incorrect premise.

 

[Lyfe]

Im at work on my phone so i cant keep up with this thread like i can at home.

The solution is first for women to rerealise worth and value that exists within a traditional family oriented existence that was at one point and time more prevalant and recognized as important. Stop attributing such a way of life to feminist lies that it leads to misery and is a form of outdated oppression. Most women are happiest when they are expressing their innate biology to nurture in the form of wife and motherhood tasks, not wasting it as some corporate cog being alienated and mutated into a golemn. Thats the first step in giving value and worth to it...

 

[justjess]

Im at work on my phone so i cant keep up with this thread like i can at home.

The solution is first for women to rerealise worth and value that exists within a traditional family oriented existence that was at one point and time more prevalant and recognized as important. Stop attributing such a way of life to feminist lies that it leads to misery and is a form of outdated oppression. Most women are happiest when they are expressing their innate biology to nurture in the form of wife and motherhood tasks, not wasting it as some corporate cog being alienated and mutated into a golemn. Thats the first step in giving value and worth to it...

Do you have female mind reading powers that are telling you this is the case above and beyond EVERY woman here telling you it’s not so?

I’ve been both btw.. a stay home mom, a career woman, a mix of each. I prefer the mix of each. That’s my happy place. I am not happy being home with my kids 24/7 and I am not happy working soo damn much that I never see them. Both of those situations make me miserable. Why do you get to tell me what should make me happy in my own life?

 

[Cintra]

Im at work on my phone so i cant keep up with this thread like i can at home.

The solution is first for women to rerealise worth and value that exists within a traditional family oriented existence that was at one point and time more prevalant and recognized as important. Stop attributing such a way of life to feminist lies that it leads to misery and is a form of outdated oppression. Most women are happiest when they are expressing their innate biology to nurture in the form of wife and motherhood tasks, not wasting it as some corporate cog being alienated and mutated into a golemn. Thats the first step in giving value and worth to it...

Stop mansplaining how women feel.

 

[Lyfe]

Do you have female mind reading powers that are telling you this is the case above and beyond EVERY woman here telling you it’s not so?

I’ve been both btw.. a stay home mom, a career woman, a mix of each. I prefer the mix of each. That’s my happy place. I am not happy being home with my kids 24/7 and I am not happy working soo damn much that I never see them. Both of those situations make me miserable. Why do you get to tell me what should make me happy in my own life?

Why do YOU and feminists get to tell other women what will make them happy?

All i advocated for as a solution was an outlet for women that can acctually contend with and address the tide of the deeply ingrained feminist social engineering and mindset. Women should be made aware of value the value they can have to society in a more traditional existence rather than constently having the typical feminist pitch pumped into their brain.

 

[Lyfe]

Stop mansplaining how women feel.

The two articles in OP were acctually written by women.

 

[Cintra]

Why do YOU and feminists get to tell other women what will make them happy?

Why do YOU?
All I see here is women taking about how they see their lives, and a man telling them how they are seeing it all wrong, and how they need to be told by men what they feel.

The two articles in OP were acctually written by women.

Then they should come here and defend their opinions.
Or do they need a man to do it for them?

 

[Maes17]

Do you have female mind reading powers that are telling you this is the case above and beyond EVERY woman here telling you it’s not so?

I’ve been both btw.. a stay home mom, a career woman, a mix of each. I prefer the mix of each. That’s my happy place. I am not happy being home with my kids 24/7 and I am not happy working soo damn much that I never see them. Both of those situations make me miserable. Why do you get to tell me what should make me happy in my own life?

You guys sound like us.
This is my first time being home 24/7 I’m enjoying it. Wife works from home so the first two days I got a glimpse of her being mom, working and trying to tidy up the place all while I was at work. So I do appreciate the work she does now.

I’m enjoying the downtime here. Been doing the home gym, spring(winter cleaning) the house, testing my culinary skills and spending time with the baby.

My 8 year old son is pretty independent. I’ll help him with his school work here and there. When he ask.

But for the most part it’s been nice to be around the family