Fatal Stabbing In Portland - White Supremacy And Islamaphobia

Etagloc

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A Muslim kills someone on some random place on the globe

All Christians: Why don't muslims stop this crap? Why don't muslims condemn such attacks? Muslims are not doing any thing blah blah blah

A Christian kills someone on some random place on the globe

All Christians: What does this have to do with christianity? Look at Quranic verse blah blah blah Their Prophet blah blah


Hypocrisy at its finest.
Where does Jesus teach violence in the Bible?
 

Etagloc

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We can't simply say all religions are the same. It's a lazy, easy way out approach. It makes perfect sense that if we're going to look at a religion, we look at the scriptures. That is the source of the religion.

You have some people who refuse to eat meat as part of their religious beliefs. And there's been others who ate people as part of their religious beliefs. So there's a lot of diversity within various religions.
 

Lady

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Hilarious read of comments...Christians aren't victims of anything, you aren't attacked in the streets or heckled because of what you wear and you don't have an entire terrorist organisation hijacking and manipulating your faith.

The guy is a Christian extremist. Just because the media doesn't hype it up as much as if he were a Muslim, doesn't mean he's not an extremist

A lot of European skinheads, white supremacists and neo nazis identity or come from Christian backgrounds. This isn't new, they believe God told them their race is supreme

Have you tried wearing any pro-Trump apparel in the streets? It is like wearing a target on your back! :confused:

@Haich
"...you don't have an entire terrorist organisation hijacking and manipulating your faith."

You are right with this comment and it does my heart good to rad these words from a Muslim. Christians do NOT have a terrorist group hijacking their religion. This is why the solution begins within the Muslim community.
http://www.hoover.org/research/religious-sources-islamic-terrorism

For the moderate Muslims who condemn this OPENLY, I applaud and support you.
For the moderate Muslims who are active within their faith communities through discussion and through rebuke of pro-radical speech, I applaud and support you.
For the moderate Muslims who are looking to connect with non-Muslim and Muslim authorities in order to provide solutions, I applaud and support you.
For the moderate Muslim who is taking this to another level by naming names of suspicious activity and persons-of-interest and exposing evil-doing, I applaud and support you.
 

Kung Fu

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He does not promote violence, but the answer to violence (however, He may be promoting whiplash :p):
Matthew 5:39
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
I take it there's no violence in the OT? Logically speaking if Jesus is the God of in the OT then he's a lot more than just violent.
 

Violette

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Im sure you understand what I was getting at. It's easy for you as a Christian to dissociate your faith with Christmas because you know your bible.

Can't you trust Muslims to do the same with terrorism ? It's not part of Islam and isn't exclusive to us
I never said terrorism was apart of Islam. Maybe you've misunderstood me but I don't think Muslims are terrorists. I think making a thread about some psycho killing people and then saying he's one your guys is dumb. It's the same as saying ISIS is the same as you and other Muslims in this forum. People were scared of Irish terrorists in the 80s I think? That's before my time but I remember learning about it. the point is that anyone can be a terrorist if they choose to be regardless of their ethnicity, culture, or religion.
 

Haich

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Muslim communities aren't one huge group, they are many sub communities. For example in the U.K., you have Bengali Muslim communities, Pakistani, Somali, Nigerian, Caribbean etc.

To simply say Muslim communities must do something doesn't help the matter as there are so many diverse groups following Islam. The issue for me is number 1, leaders and security services are not doing anywhere near enough to contain the extremists they're aware of

Anjem Choudary is a hate preacher who calls for sharia law in the U.K. He's completely protected by the police and many terror attacks have been linked to him. I believe he has served some prison time for offences but the issue is, every time he's out he does the same thing over again. So what's the Muslim community supposed to do about that ? No one likes the guy and his followers are impressionable young converts who are brainwashed by his speeches

What Muslims can do is monitor the mosques for suspected radicalism, educate the youth about what ISIS really stand for and report any suspicious behaviour

This is quite personal so I'll only touch on the issue but a family member of mine was a victim of radicalism.
He was in university studying Aerospace engineering and was about to complete his final year. At a local mosque he met some friendly guys who were observing Islam, all converts and they encouraged him to take his faith seriously. They brainwashed him into believing it was his duty to kill non Muslims. They told him God would punish him and his family if he didn't go with them to fight the Americans. He started to speak odd, would be verbally abusive to his family and lock himself in his room for hours...

After a year of friendship they convinced him to travel to Turkey , then Syria. He lied to his parents and said he was going on lads holiday to Spain. He got to the border and all the men that were so intent on going to fight the Americans left him in the middle of the border, he was alone and confused. He saw the fighting happening and realised he'd been set up...the men then miraculously traveled back to the UK undetected and he was stranded.

Eventually his family contacted the police and he came back. The police questioned him and were supportive, he had come into contact with a well known terror cell that operate in the U.K. that recruit young men and teens...

Now this is where my skeptisim comes in. This happened to a close family member and what concerns me was the very people that recruited him were never persecuted despite the amounting evidence . Phone calls, messages and emails...the police pretty much swept it all under the carpet. Why is that? Why is it when young men come forward nothing is ever done ? Why was he left at the border and who were these men?
 

Kung Fu

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I never said terrorism was apart of Islam. Maybe you've misunderstood me but I don't think Muslims are terrorists. I think making a thread about some psycho killing people and then saying he's one your guys is dumb. It's the same as saying ISIS is the same as you and other Muslims in this forum. People were scared of Irish terrorists in the 80s I think? That's before my time but I remember learning about it. the point is that anyone can be a terrorist if they choose to be regardless of their ethnicity, culture, or religion.
You might not think that but they're are plenty on this forum that do believe that Muslims somehow have this "terrorist" gene in them when in reality research has shown us that the majority of terrorists don't come from "Islamic" backgrounds.

The reason Justjess made this thread was to illustrate the hypocrisy of said Christians on this board.
 

Lady

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I take it there's no violence in the OT? Logically speaking if Jesus is the God of in the OT then he's a lot more than just violent.
First, the wars and violence found within the OT are descriptive, not prescriptive. They are describing events as they occurred, commandments God had given a specific people for a specific purpose. These instructions are not prescriptions for followers today, which is unlike the Quran. The Islamic injunctions are binding on all Muslims for all times, making it mandatory that all the faithful wage war against the infidels till the end of the age. Thank God that many Muslims are reasonable and want to follow a more peaceful way in modern society! These will be the answer to the radicalized.

Second, none of the OT wars were fought with the purpose of forcibly converting the pagans to the religion of Israel. God commanded these wars for the specific purpose of punishment and judgment, that the time had come for God to punish specific peoples for all of their atrocious acts and abominations.
 
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Lady

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Muslim communities aren't one huge group, they are many sub communities. For example in the U.K., you have Bengali Muslim communities, Pakistani, Somali, Nigerian, Caribbean etc.

To simply say Muslim communities must do something doesn't help the matter as there are so many diverse groups following Islam. The issue for me is number 1, leaders and security services are not doing anywhere near enough to contain the extremists they're aware of

Anjem Choudary is a hate preacher who calls for sharia law in the U.K. He's completely protected by the police and many terror attacks have been linked to him. I believe he has served some prison time for offences but the issue is, every time he's out he does the same thing over again. So what's the Muslim community supposed to do about that ? No one likes the guy and his followers are impressionable young converts who are brainwashed by his speeches

What Muslims can do is monitor the mosques for suspected radicalism, educate the youth about what ISIS really stand for and report any suspicious behaviour

This is quite personal so I'll only touch on the issue but a family member of mine was a victim of radicalism.
He was in university studying Aerospace engineering and was about to complete his final year. At a local mosque he met some friendly guys who were observing Islam, all converts and they encouraged him to take his faith seriously. They brainwashed him into believing it was his duty to kill non Muslims. They told him God would punish him and his family if he didn't go with them to fight the Americans. He started to speak odd, would be verbally abusive to his family and lock himself in his room for hours...

After a year of friendship they convinced him to travel to Turkey , then Syria. He lied to his parents and said he was going on lads holiday to Spain. He got to the border and all the men that were so intent on going to fight the Americans left him in the middle of the border, he was alone and confused. He saw the fighting happening and realised he'd been set up...the men then miraculously traveled back to the UK undetected and he was stranded.

Eventually his family contacted the police and he came back. The police questioned him and were supportive, he had come into contact with a well known terror cell that operate in the U.K. that recruit young men and teens...

Now this is where my skeptisim comes in. This happened to a close family member and what concerns me was the very people that recruited him were never persecuted despite the amounting evidence . Phone calls, messages and emails...the police pretty much swept it all under the carpet. Why is that? Why is it when young men come forward nothing is ever done ? Why was he left at the border and who were these men?

@Haich
"What Muslims can do is monitor the mosques for suspected radicalism, educate the youth about what ISIS really stand for and report any suspicious behaviour"
YES!!
We can influence within the "circle" in which we live. Exactly!

This is what I do in as I work in public schools on behalf of students. I have reported suspicious behaviour of adults toward children, sometimes it pans out, sometimes not. My comments are not always received well, even if I try to say it in as non-accusatory of a tone as possible.
I always think, "If I do not speak up and something is really wrong here, how am I not assisting in evil-doing?"
After hearing about the pedo scandals going on in schools, CPS agencies, foster care programs, etc. I am not keeping my mouth shut on behalf of kids.
 

manama

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This relies on a false assumption that both religions are the same. That's simply not true. All religions are not the same. You can't simply lump them all together.
What does those differences has to do here? Your religion says if someone does something bad to you let them. My religion says if someone does something bad to you fight back

LOOK at this incident

Someone of your religion harrassed girls on a bus for being a muslim. The man who died followed the islamic teachings and stood up for those women, the person following your religion killed him. Whats so difficult to understand here?
 

Lady

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@Haich,
Thanks for the personal story. It really helps to bring this down to a human level, if you know what I mean.
Yes, those who are pulling the marionette strings seem to be always in the shadows, evading apprehension. There is money and power there along with much evil influence.
 

Haich

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It won't solve the problem though, ISIS will still exist and be funded that's my point. I'm convinced they use black magic or some other type of sorcery to recruit kids
 

manama

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First, the wars and violence found within the OT are descriptive, not prescriptive. They are describing events as they occurred, commandments God had given a specific people for a specific purpose. These instructions are not prescriptions for followers today, which is unlike the Quran. The Islamic injunctions are binding on all Muslims for all times, making it mandatory that all the faithful wage war against the infidels till the end of the age. Thank God that many Muslims are reasonable and want to follow a more peaceful way in modern society! These will be the answer to the radicalized.
You are the one who is not realizing it. The wars mentioned in the Quran are also telling us a certain story, the commands given to the people AT THAT TIME. Its only applicable today if we end up in a similar war. Even then it has to DEFENSIVE.

So if i call myself a christian and start killing people cuz OT you'd tell me why what i am doing is wrong. Similarly when we muslims say that people are taking verses OUT OF CONTEXT we are the liars?
 

Haich

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@Haich,
Thanks for the personal story. It really helps to bring this down to a human level, if you know what I mean.
Yes, those who are pulling the marionette strings seem to be always in the shadows, evading apprehension. There is money and power there along with much evil influence.
I just get annoyed when people try to sweep this all under the carpet, oh muslims are Isis sympathisers its in their books...no it's not we're victims of these guys too it's our kids that are joining these pricks.
 

Lady

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It won't solve the problem though, ISIS will still exist and be funded that's my point. I'm convinced they use black magic or some other type of sorcery to recruit kids
I can't say that when I am dealing in the public schools. The kids come first, even if it seems as though NO one is fighting for them, I still will! (And I do see teachers verbally abusing kids).

Do not have that defeatist attitude-we cannot afford for the good ones to give up! Good triumphs over evil.
 

Kung Fu

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First, the wars and violence found within the OT are descriptive, not prescriptive. They are describing events as they occurred, commandments God had given a specific people for a specific purpose. These instructions are not prescriptions for followers today, which is unlike the Quran. The Islamic injunctions are binding on all Muslims for all times, making it mandatory that all the faithful wage war against the infidels till the end of the age.
Semantics. God ordered them to kill so whether you like calling it descriptive and or prescriptive the bottom line is God ordered them to kill and some would say in the most violent of ways. This idea that Jesus was some pacifist is a false believe if we're to believe he's also the God of the OT. There's no way you can squirm around this.

You've been on the forums for years now and you still don't understand anything about Islam. We are only able to wage war in self-defense. If people try to kill you Islam gives us the right to defend ourselves and fight back.

Second, none of the OT wars were fought with the purpose of forcibly converting the pagans to the religion of Israel. God commanded these wars for the specific purpose of punishment and judgment, that the time had come for God to punish specific peoples for all of their atrocious acts and abominations.
That's because they were too busy being ordered to kill everyone they see in sight.

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
(Numbers 31: 17-18)

We have Jesus ordering Moses(pbuh) to kill innocent little kids and all non-virgin women and then finally take the virgin women for yourselves. This after they killed all the other adult males.

I take it your god Jesus orders the killing of innocent little kids and the r*pe of little girls? If that's the kind of justice and punishment that your god commands than by comparison Islam does look like a hippy pacifist religion.
 

Violette

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You might not think that but they're are plenty on this forum that do believe that Muslims somehow have this "terrorist" gene in them when in reality research has shown us that the majority of terrorists don't come from "Islamic" backgrounds.

The reason Justjess made this thread was to illustrate the hypocrisy of said Christians on this board.
Justjess made this thread to start unnecessary drama. The Muslim vs Christians crusades on this forum is getting really old. Not one Muslim has said that it's wrong to group this terrorist with the rest of the religion even though they experience this daily. They jumped on a hateful bandwagon that's getting no where. A lot of people think Muslims are terrorists because of 9/11 and that's exactly why I don't think they're terrorists. It was an inside job. Our government sacrificed our own people for an insidious agenda. We're fighting each other instead of the powers that be.
 
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