Fatal Stabbing In Portland - White Supremacy And Islamaphobia

Etagloc

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Not a true Scotsman?

You guys are hypocrites.

god bless the two martyrs who died trying to reason with this hateful fucking madman
It's not the true Scotsman fallacy. A religion is not defined by its supposed followers. Anyone can claim to be Christian or Muslim. The supposed followers don't define the religion, however. We don't even know if those followers are sincere. A lot of insincere people just use religion. Christianity is defined by Jesus and his teachings. Islam is defined by Muhammad and his teachings. Jesus taught people to turn the other cheek and Muhammad taught things like "slay the unbelievers". Muhammad killed people. Jesus did not teach violence. Muhammad did. Therefore, violence is much more compatible with Muhammad's teachings than with Jesus' teachings. You would have to be willfully ignorant not to see the difference in their teachings.

Furthermore, this is an obvious example of correlation does not imply causation. What does Christmas have to do with killing people?

Have we found out what the man ate for breakfast? Do you suppose he was a dog person or a cat person? There's no more reason to assume that he killed because of Christmas than because of what he ate for breakfast- or his eye color- or whether he was a dog or cat person.

"You guys are hypocrites"... and then you talk about hate but I think you come across as the one having hate.

When have I ever said "you muslims are hypocrites" or anything like that? I criticize Islam, sure, but I don't think I've ever said anything like that. You're attacking people on a personal level rather than attacking Christianity. I think you have the hatred. You're not attacking Christianity, you're attacking Christians.

There would have already been a thread about it if it had been a Muslim. I answered your question. I waited over 24 hours to post this to see if anyone else would. It never would have went that long with a "Muslim terrorist attack" - it never has.
I guess if you mean in the United States. Okay, so you're really determined to make a point and to try to make Christianity look bad.
 
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Violette

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Not a true Scotsman?

You guys are hypocrites.

god bless the two martyrs who died trying to reason with this hateful fucking madman
You complain of Islamphobia, make a Christianophobic comment, but we're hypocrites? Jesus never condoned people murdering in his name ever. Terrorism is manufactured by the governments of the world. People attacking others for their religious beliefs distracts us from who the real instigators are. Also, assaults with knives rarely receive as much attention as shootings and bombings do. Plus he's white, white men will be deemed as mentally ill before the media will depict them as terrorists.
 

Etagloc

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I mean.... why the attacks- not on Christianity but on Christians?

I don't think the problem is Joel Olsteen type Christians.

I think it's similar to what is talked about here

"It's the industry that is so evil. In order to be accepted, promoted, and to stay in good standing in the music industry, you have to keep quiet about Biblical Christianity. You have to make a deal with the Devil if you want to rise to the top and stay there. If any one of the mainstream CCM singers came out and said they were 100% against perverted homosexuality, murderous abortion, and the cursed Catholic Church, they would be finished overnight. Instead, it's just love, love, love and no one ever gets saved. If you have to sing, dress, and behave worldly to attract fans, then it's the world that they're all coming to, not the Lord Jesus Christ. The very minute that you preach THE TRUTH as God meant it to be, goodbye fans, so long! You cannot make God cool, hip, and acceptable to the world."

The problem people have is with Christians who are concerned with what the Bible teaches and who do not conform with a modern PC redefinition of tolerance that is exemplified here:



 

rainerann

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I don't even see Christmas as soley a Christian holiday. Christmas is a shared holiday between Christians and non religious people. It is more of an American holiday than a Christian holiday. That's why we have manger scenes and Santa associated with Christmas because we share the holiday for different reasons as Americans.

I just don't see the connection to religion here. If he is white supremacist too. What does that have to so with Christianity.

It is awful. I would call it terrorism too. but a white supremacist who celebrates Christmas doesn't scream Christian to me. It says he is American. He could be called American terrorist, but not a Christian terrorist.
 

Haich

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Hilarious read of comments...Christians aren't victims of anything, you aren't attacked in the streets or heckled because of what you wear and you don't have an entire terrorist organisation hijacking and manipulating your faith.

The guy is a Christian extremist. Just because the media doesn't hype it up as much as if he were a Muslim, doesn't mean he's not an extremist

A lot of European skinheads, white supremacists and neo nazis identity or come from Christian backgrounds. This isn't new, they believe God told them their race is supreme
 

Haich

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'Approximately 90,000 Christians were killed for their faith in 2016 worldwide, making them the most persecuted religious group in the world. '

@Violette
What about the millions of Muslim kids and women and elderly being slaughtered by ISIS in Iraq, Syria ?

What about Al Shabab and Boko Haram killing school kids and blowing themselves up in the midst of villages?

Your article doesn't prove anything, it just proves Muslims and Christians are both victims of extremism. In fact we all are...
 

Haich

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Quite hypocritical to say Christmas is not part of Christianity despite it being celebrated by many Christians...but when Muslims say extremism is not part of Islam, you guys don't accept it

I'm glad you have the chance to experience how it feels to be constantly attributed to something which Islam doesn't preach and condemns
 

Violette

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Hilarious read of comments...Christians aren't victims of anything, you aren't attacked in the streets or heckled because of what you wear and you don't have an entire terrorist organisation hijacking and manipulating your faith.

The guy is a Christian extremist. Just because the media doesn't hype it up as much as if
'Approximately 90,000 Christians were killed for their faith in 2016 worldwide, making them the most persecuted religious group in the world. '

@Violette
What about the millions of Muslim kids and women and elderly being slaughtered by ISIS in Iraq, Syria ?

What about Al Shabab and Boko Haram killing school kids and blowing themselves up in the midst of villages?

Your article doesn't prove anything, it just proves Muslims and Christians are both victims of extremism. In fact we all are...
I agree that Christians and Muslims are persecuted, but OP tried to tear down Christians when pointing out islamphobia. It's hateful either way and doesn't create a productive conversation. Like I said before it would be ignorant to post something abou Isis terrorists and say they celebrate Ramadan, they're one of you guys. Just because someone claims to be a religion doesn't mean they actually practice it. You can google yourself most prosecuted religion today, Christianity comes up. I don't want anyone to be murdered for their beliefs but it's just the reality of the world we live in.[/QUOTE]
 
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TonyVanDam

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She sounded happy to be able to point out a Christian as a terrorist. But correlation does not imply causation. Why should we attribute the killing to Christianity? Did the attacker explicitly do this in the name of Christianity?

Muhammad was a war lord. The Quran is full of verses that say things like "slay the unbelievers". Muhammad himself killed people. Many people.

Who did Jesus kill?

Anyone who kills in the name of Jesus- and to my knowledge the person didn't even do this in the name of Jesus- does so in spite of Jesus' teachings. Whereas the Quran and the Hadith are full of verses that can be used to justify terrorism.
If you actually believe The Book Of Revelations, the messiah Yahshua ["Christ Jesus"] will kill during his second coming.
 

Violette

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Quite hypocritical to say Christmas is not part of Christianity despite it being celebrated by many Christians...but when Muslims say extremism is not part of Islam, you guys don't accept it

I'm glad you have the chance to experience how it feels to be constantly attributed to something which Islam doesn't preach and condemns
I didn't say Christmas is not a part of Christianity but it's a weird point to make when it's widely celebrated about everyone here in America. There's more santa clauses, Christmas trees, elves, reindeer, and other non Christian ornaments that are decorated everywhere than Christian ones. It's not a strictly Christian holiday at all
 

Aero

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This is why you should not try to confront the psychos when they are out of their cages. Unless you have a weapon. Events like this are why I think people should open their third eyes. Because where was God here? How does any of your religions play into any of these type of attacks?

I see no religion. I see a boiling pot of emotions and at any point the heat can get turned up. And we all know what happens next.
 

manama

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A Muslim kills someone on some random place on the globe

All Christians: Why don't muslims stop this crap? Why don't muslims condemn such attacks? Muslims are not doing any thing blah blah blah

A Christian kills someone on some random place on the globe

All Christians: What does this have to do with christianity? Look at Quranic verse blah blah blah Their Prophet blah blah


Hypocrisy at its finest.
 

manama

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A religion is not defined by its supposed followers. Anyone can claim to be Christian or Muslim. The supposed followers don't define the religion, however. We don't even know if those followers are sincere. A lot of insincere people just use religion. Christianity is defined by Jesus and his teachings. Islam is defined by Muhammad and his teachings. Jesus taught people to turn the other cheek and Muhammad taught things like "slay the unbelievers". Muhammad killed people. Jesus did not teach violence. Muhammad did. Therefore, violence is much more compatible with Muhammad's teachings than with Jesus' teachings. You would have to be willfully ignorant not to see the difference in their teachings.
Can you not?
 

manama

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The main point is if a man calling himself muslim does something its Islam's fault.

If a Christian does the same, suddenly terrorism has no religion? He isn't a true christian?

Either both religions are at fault or none of them is. You can't have it both ways.
 

Haich

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I didn't say Christmas is not a part of Christianity but it's a weird point to make when it's widely celebrated about everyone here in America. There's more santa clauses, Christmas trees, elves, reindeer, and other non Christian ornaments that are decorated everywhere than Christian ones. It's not a strictly Christian holiday at all
Im sure you understand what I was getting at. It's easy for you as a Christian to dissociate your faith with Christmas because you know your bible.

Can't you trust Muslims to do the same with terrorism ? It's not part of Islam and isn't exclusive to us
 

Etagloc

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The main point is if a man calling himself muslim does something its Islam's fault.

If a Christian does the same, suddenly terrorism has no religion? He isn't a true christian?

Either both religions are at fault or none of them is. You can't have it both ways.
This relies on a false assumption that both religions are the same. That's simply not true. All religions are not the same. You can't simply lump them all together.

Divide, divide, divide. Why oh why does this trap continue to play out here. Catch your breath people.
Do not assume that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father a daughter against her mother a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. A man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’ -Matthew 10:34

I'm not a pawn of elites. My stuff is not coming from elites. My beliefs come from the Bible. If we go by the Bible, Muhammad is a false prophet and anti-Christ. That's simply the result that we get if look at Muhammad from the standpoint of the Bible. I go by the Bible. I'm not following some elite agenda.

And I'm not anti-Muslim. I'm not for hatred against Muslims. Believe it or not, disagreeing with people does not equal hatred.

Muslims are free to disagree with my beliefs and I'm free to disagree with their beliefs. I can say Jesus is the Son of God and they can say he's a prophet. It's not the end of the world.

This is like social justice warrior logic. The idea that disagreeing with people=hate is straight social justice warrior logic. You can't say you're against transgenderism because you're promoting hate. You can't say you believe homosexuality is a sin because you're promoting hate.

Look, people are free to do as they please. I'm not going to hate a muslim if they say they believe Jesus was a prophet and that Christians are associating a partner with Allah. They're free to argue for their beliefs. In fact, I respect them for speaking up for what they believe in. If they decided "we're not gonna say anything that might offend Christians" then I would kinda think they were spineless. I like Haich, manama, Kung Fu and God is Formless. They all seem like cool people to me. I don't hate anyone for disagreeing with me.

Intolerance is when you try to tell people they can't express their beliefs and shut down the free exchange of ideas. Disagreeing with people is not intolerance. I assume people are mature adults and that we can disagree over whether Jesus was a deity or a prophet without people getting violent. I understand in theory people could get violent but they could get violent over anything. I'm not going to simply never disagree with people. Liberals wouldn't be able to debate conservatives- someone might get hurt. Conservatives wouldn't be able to debate liberals- someone might get hurt. The world is a dangerous place. We just have to accept it for what it is. We can't try to turn the world into a giant, sanitized safe-space. If people can't handle that, they can run to a safe space where they won't hear anything that might hurt their feelings. It's absurd, this postmodern new age logic that you can't disagree with people and that disagreement is hate. Can you imagine if scientists adopted that logic? Science would never advance. Galileo would have never spoke up because he wouldn't want to offend anyone. Socrates would have never spoke up because he wouldn't want to offend anyone. He would have never taught Plato. Plato would have never taught Aristotle. Jesus would have never spoke up. Don't believe the watered-down, PC version of Jesus they try to make people believe in- Jesus apparently was seen as enough of a threat that they killed him. He offended a lot of people. Muhammad would have never spoke up and there wouldn't be Islam.

Now this is true- if I was here trying to make you hate Muslims, I would be wrong. Christians have to love Muslims. But I'm not trying to make people hate each other. If someone is saying "evolution is wrong" or "creationism is wrong", that's not hate. That's just people disagreeing about ideas. Someone could go out and shoot an evolutionist or creationist. But that's the fault of that individual. We can't simply say "well now we have to shut down debates about evolution". That's exactly the sort of logic being forced on people. "Ahhhh! Terrorism!! we have to give up our rights!!"- no, I reject that. I might be against Isis or whatever but if Muslims want to try to preach their religion and try to debunk Christianity, they can do that. A Muslim who loves their religion and tries to convince me Jesus was a prophet is not the same as isis. I'm not some Christian equivalent of isis if I disagree with Islam.

I showed how Jesus taught that his message would divide people. So dividing people might not necessarily be bad. For example, I think individuals and nations should be free and independent. You have a right to say what you wish. If you're attacking people rather than ideas, I think that's bad but I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing ideas. But in any case- what is the elite ultimately trying to do?

The elite is out to unite everyone. They don't want individuals and nations to be free and independent. They don't want things like national sovereignty. They want the centralization of power. So I think the good fight is for the decentralization of power. I don't want all the religions to be turned into one homogeneous blob- a "New World Religion". I want things to be decentralized. I'm not trying to become part of some One World System. I like being free and independent and having my own perspective and I simply won't give that up. I don't want others to either. I respect Muslims like Grateful Servant who are not afraid to offend me and who try to convince me to become Muslim. I respect people like that. I don't want people to compromise in order to not offend me, nor do I wish to make such a compromise. When we both begin making these compromises, it furthers the agenda of the centralization of power and a One World System. I want to things to be decentralized. I don't want a One World System. I don't want all the religions to become a unified, homogeneous blob and I don't want things to become any more centralized than they already are.

If people can't be mature and understand that disagreeing about ideas is nothing to become violent over and cannot understand the difference between attacking ideas and people, then that is their problem, it's not mine.

Seriously, I love Grateful Servant, God is Formless, manama, Haich, and Kung Fu. I'm still hoping that manama will one day apply her debating skills to attacking evolution. I can only dream.
 
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