European Court of Human Rights rules that defaming Prophet Muhammed is not free expression

Red Sky at Morning

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Of course not - it is both immoral and illegal!
Very good brother colgate......
Take that image for example if they criticize Islam it is within the realm of freedom of speech.......that is the blue part. That is acceptable.
If they hit the yellow area and they have defamed and insulted the prophets any and ALL of them including Jesus peace be upon him........
We will defend him for ourselves and the Christians and Moses peace be upon him for ourselves and the Jews. (Do they bow down to the dictates of the enlightenment crowd their new Gods who will tell them what is halaal (permissible) and haraam (impermissible).)
The only other thing that I would say to them if you make it permissible make it permissible for or against everyone do not have selective freedom of speech and anti-defamation laws.
Be consistent and that is a word of advise for the Christian Zionists on here who squawk like parrots when certain topics are brought up.
Stop being hypocrites.....please.....that sucks.




^ @Etagloc - now that is rhetoric ;-)

Btw - I do believe in freedom of speech. People are currently allowed to be anti-Christian and anti-Semitic in their speech. In the realm of ideas, we have free will and freedom of expression. If those ideas spill over into actions, there should be consequences, including the full penalty of the Law.
 
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DesertRose

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#commonesense101 be consistent folks......
:):p
To reiterate:
Be consistent and that is a word of advise for the Christian Zionists on here who squawk like parrots when certain topics are brought up.
Stop being hypocrites.....please.....that sucks."
 

Etagloc

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What about right-wing and left-wing violence?

Should we go after right-wingers and left-wingers?

What about all the people who have been killed in the name of Democracy?

Should we go after everyone who believes in Democracy?
 

Etagloc

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Of course not - it is both immoral and illegal!

Should people be allowed to listen to music?
Not from a sharia perspective, to my understanding. But Western countries aren't based on sharia so that's not what the laws are based on.

If you're going to say law has to be 100% secular- then you have no basis for saying incest should be illegal. From a purely secular perspective, you have no basis for saying incest or murder are wrong. If we really follow secularism to its logical conclusion, no perversion should be illegal- and that's exactly where secularism is heading.

All the degeneracy that secularism has promoted- and yet you defend it? Western civilization doesn't care about its own survival. It's gone over to the dark side- its sickness is only further illustrated when people defend its toxic status quo. What perversion will it be promoting next? Declining civilizations fall and growing ones rise. Such is life.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Not from a sharia perspective, to my understanding. But Western countries aren't based on sharia so that's not what the laws are based on.

If you're going to say law has to be 100% secular- then you have no basis for saying incest should be illegal. From a purely secular perspective, you have no basis for saying incest or murder are wrong. If we really follow secularism to its logical conclusion, no perversion should be illegal- and that's exactly where secularism is heading.

All the degeneracy that secularism has promoted- and yet you defend it? Western civilization doesn't care about its own survival. It's gone over to the dark side. Declining civilizations fall and growing ones rise. Such is life.
I think that God gave Moses an overarching principle of law within the Ten Commandments, on which many of the laws of Western society were originally based. Abandoning this base has led to unjust laws and permitting evil to grow in society. I don't believe in mere secularism. I also don't believe that simply keeping the letter of the law will make you right with God...

Matthew 5 puts it into the correct perspective:-

Jesus Fulfills the Law

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Anger and Reconciliation

(Luke 12:57-59)

21Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.23Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.25Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.26Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Adultery

(Leviticus 18:1-30)

27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
 

Etagloc

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I think that God gave Moses an overarching principle of law within the Ten Commandments, on which many of the laws of Western society were originally based. Abandoning this base has led to unjust laws and permitting evil to grow in society. I don't believe in mere secularism.
Okay, so it seems from this you believe the law comes from God. That is what I believe. Sovereignty belongs to Allah. The law comes from God.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Okay, so it seems from this you believe the law comes from God. That is what I believe. Sovereignty belongs to Allah. The law comes from God.
I think we also agree that society will intimately run best as a Theocracy. Where we differ is that you believe at present that Islam will establish this theocracy in our present age, whereas I believe that Jesus will return to establish it in an age soon to come*:-

*Please note there are Christians I like and respect who do not believe what I posted up below, but I believe it represents what the Bible teaches faithfully.

What does the Bible say about the Millennium?

A short insight into the amazing thousand-year kingdom of peace that Christ will establish in the end times.



A short insight into the amazing thousand-year kingdom of peace that Christ will establish in the end times.

The prophecy given in the book of Revelation tells about all kinds of terrible plagues and tribulations that will fall over the earth in the end times. God’s wrath will be poured over the servants of Satan in abundance in an event known as the Great Tribulation. This is the natural culmination of the development of sin on the earth. As long as sin had the upper hand the earth became steadily more corrupt and damaged. (Read more about the Great Tribulation here.)

But at the end of all this Jesus Christ will come back with the armies of heaven and they will begin a glorious time of healing on the earth. This is the start of the thousand-year era of peace known as the Millennium.

What is the Millennium?

The Millennium is a time of peace and harmony on the earth when Jesus and the saints will rule in righteousness. It is a time when all wrongs will be put right and all evils will be cleansed from the earth. Isaiah 65:20-25 contains a fuller description of the wonder and harmony that will characterize this time.

Nobody will exploit another, nobody will steal or murder. The entire earth will be ruled by Christ, His bride and the martyrs. (Revelation 20:4) And their governance will be fair and exactly according to God’s laws. It will be how God always intended the earth to be. A haven of peace and righteousness and joy. A creation in complete harmony with its Creator.

People will live much longer lives than they do now. (Isaiah 65:20) Even the animals will stop from killing one another for food and all of them will turn to eating grass and plants. (Isaiah 65:25)

Will there be sin during the Millennium?

In spite of all of this the sinful nature that is inherent in all of mankind will not have changed. People will still be born with a flesh in which dwells no good thing. (Romans 7:18) The possibility for people to choose to sin will still be there.

But because Satan is bound during this time (Revelation 20:2) he will not be able to exert his outer influence on people. It will be much easier for people to choose to serve God and live a righteous life when they are surrounded by that same righteousness on all fronts. When there is equality and justice and mercy and patience and humility all around instead of war and famine and tyranny and injustice.

Those who nevertheless choose to live a sinful life and give in to their own pride and selfishness during this time will die early. (Isaiah 65:20) God’s laws still apply and nobody will be able to get away with sinning unnoticed.

Jesus, the bride, and the martyrs

Jesus and His bride, along with the martyrs killed during the Great Tribulation will be ruling the earth. These are God’s most trusted servants. Jesus, who was tried in all points yet without sin, has absolute authority over all sin and unrighteousness. He is one hundred percent united with God’s will.

Those who are in the bride of Christ have also conquered sin in their lives. They too have authority to judge and rule in righteousness because they have let God teach them this righteousness throughout their time on earth. God has tested them and they have been purified by fire, in the same way as Jesus. Jesus and His bride will dry away the tears and bring joy and peace to people. But they have no tears of their own to dry away because they are already filled with God’s goodness and joy. (Read more about the bride of Christ here.)

The martyrs of the Great Tribulation have also been tested and will also be along in ruling during the Millennium for they have also given their lives to God, albeit in a different way than the bride. (Revelation 20:4-6) The glory and the responsibility of the bride of Christ will be much greater than that of the martyrs, because their sacrifice was also greater.

All of these will work together to ensure that the world grows in peace, harmony, righteousness, and godliness during the Millennium.

After the Millennium

Even though the Millennium will be a time lived in peace and righteousness, it is not God’s final goal for His creation. Satan has been bound, but not completely eradicated. And despite the wonder and harmony on the earth, it is still not perfect in God’s eyes because it bears the eternal stain of sin.

At the end of the Millennium Satan will be loosed from his chains for a short time, though it is unclear exactly how long this time is. This is his final chance to deceive all the nations and get people to follow him. Incredibly, he will gather enough people from all over the earth to create an army, and they will surround Jerusalem again, in a last desperate bid to take over God’s creation.

But now it is finally enough, and Satan’s time is up. God will send fire down from heaven to devour them. The devil will finally be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the Antichrist are, and they will be tormented there forever. (Revelation 20:7-10)

This marks the end of the Millennium and is the last event before the Final Judgment takes place, time ceases and eternity starts. (Read more about Judgment Day here.)

Before the end

It is wonderful to sit and think about what immense rejoicing the Millennium will bring, when all the tears and sorrows are finally washed away. But the happiest people in the Millennium will be Jesus and His bride. They have the greatest reward because they have made the greatest sacrifice.

Now is still the time to choose where you will be. The glory of each one will differ in eternity. How awful would it be to trade in our eternal glory for the passing pleasures of sin here on earth! Why not choose to be a part of the bride now? Choose to be one of those who accepts God’s judgment and leading in their lives. This is His way of training you for the responsibility of ruling over the earth during the Millennium.

Choose to be one of the ones drying away tears instead of one who has tears to dry.

https://activechristianity.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about-the-millennium
 
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Etagloc

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I think we also agree that society will intimately run best as a Theocracy. Where we differ is that you believe at present that Islam will establish this theocracy in our present age, whereas I believe that Jesus will return to establish it in an age soon to come*:
I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm not out to establish a utopia. And I'm not a political activist. I don't run society and I'm not out to run society. Having some theological views doesn't make me a political activist.
 
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Red Sky at Morning

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I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm not out to establish a utopia. And I'm not a political activist.
I'm just referring to the way that Muslims and Christians might have differing views on society and laws, both present and future.
 

Etagloc

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I'm just referring to the way that Muslims and Christians might have differing views on society and laws, both present and future.
Firstly, believing in Islam doesn't mean you're out to impose sharia on non-Muslim countries. Secondly, sharia is not utopianism. If sharia is utopianism- then utopia has already been accomplished many times over.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Firstly, believing in Islam doesn't mean you're out to impose sharia on non-Muslim countries. Secondly, sharia is not utopianism. If sharia is utopianism- then utopia has already been accomplished.
The Millennium will not be utopianism either. It will be the best we have ever known, but most importantly with new management!
 

Etagloc

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The Millennium will not be utopianism either, just new management!
What you are saying makes no sense. There's like twenty countries where they already have sharia law (not perfectly but more or less).

Sharia law already exists. The theoretical utopia you're referring to is nowhere to be found. You can go fly to Saudi and see sharia law. It's been around for 1,400 years. It's already been done.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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What you are saying makes no sense. There's like twenty countries where they already have sharia law (not perfectly but more or less).

Sharia law already exists. The theoretical utopia you're referring to is nowhere to be found. You can go fly to Saudi and see sharia law. It's been around for 1,400 years.
With respect...

im-only-responsible-for-what-i-say-not-for-what-5455448.png
 

Etagloc

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Right/left violence isnt the topic here, and there are several threads already for it. Pointing to other groups committing violence doesn't erase the topic at hand.
So I made a valid point and you want to change the subject.
 

elsbet

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"This is Europeans and on a basis of Political Correctness." @Etagloc

Maybe so-- not a bad point, to be sure. This line was in more than one article, citing their reasoning:

"... aim of preserving religious peace in Austria."

They seem to be prosecuting out a fear of potential religious discord... the perceived threat of violence-- and it isn't unwarranted, really. It has happened before, God knows.

And yes-- appeasement is antithetical to the American spirit-- we bow up, quite naturally, at the threat to our 1st Amendment. Give me liberty or ... ! :p

BUT... in other news:

"Muslim parents had alleged that sending their daughters to compulsory swimming lessons violated freedom of religion.

The ECHR ruled that Swiss authorities were within bounds to deny an exemption."

A little inconsistent in their application, though. How could this be mandatory in light of the the ruling on PC ?
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Some people do not know that we also believe that Prophet Jesus peace be upon him will be a Just ruler according to Islam as well.o_O:D
https://www.islamicity.org/5640/jesus-will-return/
Plus what is up with posting religious stuff on a non religious thread?
I think @Etagloc took issue with my definition of freedom, so in the end I needed to give him an explanation that referred to my source for that understanding. I will let you carry on in a non-religious direction if you like while exploring the ideas expressed in the OP...
 
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