Eternal Security/Once saved always saved.

Alanantic

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Well thats interesting, Im abit on the fence but lean to wards eternal security.

I mean working out your own salvation, I dunno. Maybe we are all judged differently on our circumstances, who knows.
"All these sufferings are man-made and it is within man's power to put an end to them. God helps by facing man with the results of his actions and demanding that the balance should be restored. (As you sow, so shall you reap.) Karma is the law that works for righteousness; it is the healing hand of God." -- Nisargadatta
 

Maldarker

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Well thats interesting, Im abit on the fence but lean to wards eternal security.

I mean working out your own salvation, I dunno. Maybe we are all judged differently on our circumstances, who knows.
You know that's from Philippians right? here is the best part of that: for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his purpose.”
 

phipps

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There is no such thing as eternal security in the Bible. It is not God's doctrine at all.

John 10:27-28, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand."

Many Christians are taught to think that being saved is a one time event. They say Jesus gives us eternal life, and we can never be snatched out of His hand. However, notice above verses say that He gives eternal life to those who are following Him. Also, even though no one can snatch us out of His hand, we are still always free to walk out of His hand, to go our own way. We were all created with free will. Even when we are saved we still have free will. God never takes it away from us. Our choice to be saved and choose Jesus Christ as our personal Saviour and live according to His will and standards is what seals our destiny. However we can choose to stop believing and living according to God's will and walk away from Him and choose to leave our lives as we see fit. We can all lose salvation depending on our choices.

In fact the Bible tells us what will happen to those who were once saved but chose to walk away from God:

Ezekiel 18:24, “But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die."

Hebrews 10:26-28, "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses."

2 Peter 2:20, "For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning." There are many more biblical warnings against apostasy. Why would the Bible have such solemn threats and admonitions of losing salvation eternally if professed Christians were not in danger of losing it? If "once saved always saved" was true shouldn't have someone sent the devil a memo? He would not waste his time tempting Christians since it would be impossible to cause them to be lost. Yet, we all know by experience that the devil works even harder to pull away the saints from following Christ.

Salvation is a process. The Bible states very clearly that we can only continue as partakers of Messiah if we hold fast our confidence and our faith firmly until the end. We have to have a continual relationship with Jesus, the source of eternal life to the end. Those who don't hold on to Jesus to the end will not make it.

1 Corinthians 9:24-27

Striving for a Crown

"Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain
it. And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified."

Plus there is the book of life which anyone's name can be taken out of (Exodus 32:33, Revelation 3:5, 22:18-19). I have a thread on this subject. This post talks about the book of life.


In the Bible there are conditions to being saved. What are those conditions?

- Belief in Jesus Christ (John 3:16; 14:1; Acts 16:31; 1 John 3:23)

- Repentance and confession of sin (Acts 2:38-39; 1 John 1:9; 2 Chronicles 7:14).

- Obedience (Matthew 7:22-24; 1 John 2:3-4, Revelation 22:14).

- Baptism (Mark 16:16; John 3:5; Acts 2:38-39; 1 Corinthians 12:13, 27)

- Loving and having faith In Christ.

"Once saved always saved" is a man made doctrine that gives Christians licence to sin. It makes them think they are secure because they are saved and nothing they do can make them lose that salvation. It teaches that sin can be excused since forgiveness is already given in advance. It teaches that one can be saved without his/her own choice. It abolishes and destroys the law. Why would any Christian be obedient if they are saved anyway? It advocates that one can be saved in sin instead of from sin. All of this contradicts the Word of God and therefore God since the Bible is His inspired Word. So obviously "Once saved always saved" is a doctrine from Satan.
 
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phipps

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I have a thread titled "Does God place Conditions on His Gift of Salvation?" In one of the posts (they are not my words) is written:

Salvation is free, but not cheap

You may have heard the expression, “Salvation is free, but not cheap”—in contrast to the “cheap grace” so many seem to effectively believe in. God’s gift of life to us cost Jesus Christ His life. He, the very Son of God, willingly surrendered His life so that we might receive God’s wonderful gift of eternal life. And it cost the Father, who “gave His only begotten Son” (John 3:16).

But God expects us to surrender our lives in return, as Jesus states in Luke 14:33: So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple."

Accepting God’s gift of eternal life comes at the highest cost we can imagine. As Jesus Christ gave His life for us, we must be willing to give our lives to follow Him!

So returning to the question at the beginning, does God place conditions on His gift of salvation? Clearly the answer is yes. His Word spells out the conditions. Let us be sure, as Hebrews 2:3 exhorts us, that we not “neglect so great a salvation”!
 

Daze

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What are the christians on the forums thoughts on this doctrine?
Thats funny. I knew before i even opened this thread it would say "discuss" or 'your thoughts".

Remember when you were Muslim for a day Seek? I do.
 

TokiEl

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Matthew 7 15Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20So then, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’

23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’





Show me your fruits... and i will tell you if you'll make it.

No as the Lord said... check their/your fruit.

We're not talking about apples and oranges here guys... but good produces good and bad produces bad.
 
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floss

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Salvation is a child-like faith. When you attach all these conditions, it's no longer a child-like faith.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved.

Not,
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and this and that.

Don't get mixed up between Justification and Sanctification. You're justified by a child-like faith and sanctified by walking in the spirit (carry the cross daily). The only requirement to enter the gate of Heaven is to be justified by the work of Christ, it has NOTHING to do with you nor your deeds. God (Jesus) done all the works on your behalf and you just need to trust only that. Once you're justified by faith alone, you're called to become a Saint (sanctification) which will take your whole life and you will still fall short. However, as you become more Saint-like in the flesh, you're also a walking testimonies of Christ which will led more sinners to repent. Sanctification is very important but that's not the substances that get you into heaven. The thief on the cross was never Sanctified but we know he was Justified by his Faith in the Savior.
 

elsbet

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You know that's from Philippians right? here is the best part of that: for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his purpose.”
Exactly.

Everyone seems to forget that part.

for it is God who works in you
to will and to do
of His good pleasure.
PHILIPPIANS 2:13
 

floss

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Does anybody want to be in this camp?

God: Why should I allow you to enter the Gate of Heaven?

You: First, I fully trust that Jesus died for my sins...etc (Gospel). On top of that, I kept your commandments, walk in the spirit, carry the cross daily, and I'm sanctified. I have done so many great things in your name like heal the sicks, feed the poor, cast out demon, and led many people to repentance. I have no doubt you'll let me in instead of that willful sinners over there.

Or this camp

God: Why should I allow you to enter the Gate of Heaven?

Willful Sinner: Lord, I know I'm an evil sinner in your eyes. I deserve hell fire for the things I have done. But I thank you for being gracious and sent your Son to took the punishment on my behalf. I completely trust His works and shameful on my end. Lord, please forgive me and look at Jesus.

Sure, I can be bias as that's exactly what I believe. Feel free to give your scenario how you think it may play out.
 

Alanantic

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Exactly.

Everyone seems to forget that part.

for it is God who works in you
to will and to do
of His good pleasure.
PHILIPPIANS 2:13
"Just as when you are half awake and can see a dream, and know you are dreaming, and yet are apart from it, that is how God feels this universe. On one side he is awake, and on another side he is dreaming this universe. And that is how you should look upon this world. Then you will know why he created it, and will not ascribe these dream conditions to your soul. If you pass through a nightmare, you know that is no more than a bad dream. If you can live in the world in that consciousness, you will not suffer.
You won't mind then, because you will know you are dreaming. Do not pay undue attention to the passing scenes of life. You are the immortal Self (Consciousness) living only temporarily in a dream that is sometimes (imagined) to be a nightmare. That is the higher philosophy (and truth) of the mystics." -- Yogananda
 
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the nature of sin is not the same as the accountability of sin.

'saved' means to become Christ-like, to become a branch of the olive tree that is Jesus Christ. The only way is if someone's consciousness reflects Jesus. The consequence of such a state of consciousness is that you would also experience carnal death like Jesus and as such be 'dead' to the world.
Otherwise, without that actual state, no christian is truely saved but they are still, at least, hopeful. Paul said gentiles can be 'cut off' easier than God cut off the jews.

Jesus will reject many who call him 'lord'. so clearly those are christians he's going to reject.
So how can you even ask the question? surely by this point you should know?
 

Axl888

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There is this so-called eternal security for the Elect. But who is/are exactly the Elect? These are the people predestined by God to be saved from the beginning, these are the people who believe in God and in Jesus Christ as their Lord and saviour until the end of their life on earth. But the thing is, no man ever know who these predestined people are, we can only assume based on what we saw from outside that some people died as a believer until their death but we do not know what is in their heart and mind, only God knows. You and I may believe today that we are saved as we believe in God and in Jesus Christ (today), but the question is do we persevere and remain the same until the end? Only God knows! If despite with all the temptations and guiles of the world and satan today and we still persevere as a believer until death, then we are part of the Elect and are saved eternally.
 

floss

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There is this so-called eternal security for the Elect. But who is/are exactly the Elect? These are the people predestined by God to be saved from the beginning, these are the people who believe in God and in Jesus Christ as their Lord and saviour until the end of their life on earth. But the thing is, no man ever know who these predestined people are, we can only assume based on what we saw from outside that some people died as a believer until their death but we do not know what is in their heart and mind, only God knows. You and I may believe today that we are saved as we believe in God and in Jesus Christ (today), but the question is do we persevere and remain the same until the end? Only God knows! If despite with all the temptations and guiles of the world and satan today and we still persevere as a believer until death, then we are part of the Elect and are saved eternally.
“Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:9-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Based on these verses, I think the Elect of God are the New Man (born again believer) with God living inside them. What do you think?
 

A Freeman

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What are the christians on the forums thoughts on this doctrine?
According to Christ (the Truth -- John 14:6), no one has ever gone to heaven.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of Man which is from heaven.

No one gets to mark their own score card; only Christ will do that, and not until the Last Day, after all of the evidence has been gathered.

John 5:22-23

5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son (Enoch 58:1; 60:11; 68:39):
5:23 That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
 
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Axl888

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“Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:9-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Based on these verses, I think the Elect of God are the New Man (born again believer) with God living inside them. What do you think?
I agree. The Elect of God are new men...born again in soul and spirit.

You see, there are elects among the atheists, buddhists, muslims, hindus, and every pagan religion in the world and they will be called at the appointed time (by God) to come back to Him, who are these people? We do not know, only God knows.

And I do believe, when all elect are called (the fullness of the gentiles) then that is the time when Jesus Christ will come back to gather (rapture) his people and bring them to heaven.
 
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