Epic Games vs Google + Apple

[Aero]

Apple Dramatically Escalates Its War With ‘Fortnite’ Developer Epic Games

After removing Fortnite from the App Store for allowing players to make purchases direct from developer Epic Games, Apple has now escalated its fight by threatening to remove Epic Games from its develoer program entirely.

www.forbes.com

I've been wondering if anyone has been following this story. Epic Games is a big deal in the video game industry, but this story specifically revolves around the game "Fortnite". Basically Epic Games implemented its own payment system into Fortnite, which circumvents the Google, and Apple payment systems. Now in response to Epic implementing this payment system, Google and Apple removed them completely.

In essence, Google and Apple would rather get no money from Fortnite, then have to lose some of the 30% or whatever cut they take. I'm not really sure of all the details, I haven't dug that deep yet. Plus this story is just unfolding. In any case, it's clear the actions from Google and Apple scream of anti-competitive behavior. Now I'm not an anti-trust law expert or anything, but it seems like Epic Games has a case.

Keep in mind that Google + Apple payment systems cover everything from Music and movies, to every kind of app that exists. Moreover, the reason these companies have grown so much is because of their anti-competition policies. Of course, it might be fair to say that anti-competition is common behavior on the internet. The internet may be the wild west as far as anti-trust law goes.

The conclusion is if you care at all about the "free market" you should pay attention to this story. There is a good reason anti-trust laws exist. It's to protect us, consumers, from a grand total of 2 corporations telling us everything we are allowed to watch, play, and listen to.

 

[Helioform]

Yeah as an Android game app maker, this lawsuit will probably have an impact on my revenue.

Epic Games has been fighting against the 30% cost of having your app on one of those stores and also the Steam store as well for a while now. If you publish your game on the Epic Games store you only give 12% of your revenue to Epic. They are trying to standardize this for the Play Store and the App store as well now as we can see.

But basically this does not really affect the consumer until they do things like they have done there by banning Fortnite from their marketplace. The 30% cut, if reduced, would just give more money to the developers. Epic Games has 40% of its shares owned by the Chinese Tencent company which is basically the Chinese government so I am wondering if there is not some kind of attempt at undermining these giant American companies with this. Probably not, and I firmly stand with Epic because their cause is noble. I also use their awesome Unreal Engine and they have done a great job supporting game devs like me with free tools and production assets.

 

[Aero]

Yeah as an Android game app maker, this lawsuit will probably have an impact on my revenue.

Epic Games has been fighting against the 30% cost of having your app on one of those stores and also the Steam store as well for a while now. If you publish your game on the Epic Games store you only give 12% of your revenue to Epic. They are trying to standardize this for the Play Store and the App store as well now as we can see.

But basically this does not really affect the consumer until they do things like they have done there by banning Fortnite from their marketplace. The 30% cut, if reduced, would just give more money to the developers. Epic Games has 40% of its shares owned by the Chinese Tencent company which is basically the Chinese government so I am wondering if there is not some kind of attempt at undermining these giant American companies with this. Probably not, and I firmly stand with Epic because their cause is noble. I also use their awesome Unreal Engine and they have done a great job supporting game devs like me with free tools and production assets.

The Epic Games store is phenomenal. It's easily the best digital storefront in the gaming industry.

Here is a bit I found from the FTC page about anti-trust law.

"Business associations made up of competitors can offer their members important services and benefits that improve efficiency and reduce costs. These services and benefits can range from general industry promotion to high-tech support. But when an association of competitors withholds these benefits from would-be members that offer a competitive alternative that consumers want, the restriction may harm competition and keep prices high. This problem only occurs when members of the association have a significant market presence and it is difficult for non-members to compete without access to association-sponsored benefits."

The whole thing could also be considered "market division". In essence, Apple and Google are forcing people into an agreement where they agree not to compete with them. That is very clearly against the law.

 

[Corvus Metus]

I like that Epic is sticking it to Google and Apple... But I don't exactly trust that Epic has the best interests of the consumer at heart, considering they've money-hatted developers for "exclusives" to their store... And I'm not sure that this will work out in the end them. While Fortnite is still big, Fall Guys seems to be taking a lot of its hype... So it no longer has the total dominance.

The Epic Games store is phenomenal. It's easily the best digital storefront in the gaming industry.

As a consumer, I'm more of a fan of GOG. DRM-free.

 

[Aero]

I like that Epic is sticking it to Google and Apple... But I don't exactly trust that Epic has the best interests of the consumer at heart, considering they've money-hatted developers for "exclusives" to their store... And I'm not sure that this will work out in the end them. While Fortnite is still big, Fall Guys seems to be taking a lot of its hype... So it no longer has the total dominance.




As a consumer, I'm more of a fan of GOG. DRM-free.

Unreal Engine is still pretty dominant though. And I agree that GOG is a good store.

Epic Games gives out free games every week or so. That gives them the edge in my book.

 

[Vision]

I definitely agree that this duopoly needs to be regulated but completely forgot the link with Tencent.

Epic Games has 40% of its shares owned by the Chinese Tencent company which is basically the Chinese government so I am wondering if there is not some kind of attempt at undermining these giant American companies with this. Probably not, and I firmly stand with Epic because their cause is noble.

^ Agreed and interesting..

The US and China are essentially in a cold war..while we're told to enjoy our videogames, Netflix and worry about Covid.

 

[Aero]

If China wanted to make a move against Apple there are a lot of better ways.

Let me try to explain something to everyone. Let's say I or you were going to design a game and try to bring it to the market. If we use the unreal engine we have to pay Epic Games 10% of profits over a million dollars. We also have to pay Google+Apple 30% of every sale. But wait there's more. We also have to pay the credit card companies 1.5% - 3.4%.

For those who are bad at math, if we design a game and try to bring it to market in the most practical way, we lose up to 45% of the profits to these middlemen. Basically nobody can legitimately do business this way without massive cash injections from investors. Moreover, the reason these middlemen can charge so much is because of how they have destroyed the competitive side of the playing field.

The simple conclusion is nobody can compete with the Google+Apple marketplace and bring down that absurd 30% fee. I estimate organic market forces would bring that fee down to the 5-10% range. If they were allowed to exist. In essence, my argument is what's bad for software developers is inherently bad for consumers.

 

[Aero]

Apple terminates Epic’s App Store access following Fortnite dispute

Bad news if you want to re-download Infinity Blade or get Fortnite skins on iOS.

arstechnica.com

Fortnite = gone from Apple devices.

Apparently the judge didn't like how Epic Games intentionally broke Apple's terms of service. Basically, if you wanted to sue someone for anti-trust breaking their terms of service isn't the best opening move. The best opening move is a deep dive into Apple's publically available data. All the proof of their monopoly and anti-competitive policies is written in plain English.

In hindsight, Epic Games should have removed Fortnite and sued Apple first a long ass time ago. Mainly because the fact of the matter is nobody gives a shit about gaming on Apple devices. In essence, Apple is just leeching heavily off the few games that somehow end up on an Apple device.

 

[Aero]

Evidently, this case is going to a jury trial.

The reality is when you say anti-competitive to a judge they don't bat an eye. Or they don't know what it means. Conversely, when Apple accuses Epic Games of "theft" the judge knows theft is bad. Case closed

 

[Aero]

Not to turn this into a rant or anything. But let's say I'm sick of fanboys who act like Apple is doing them a favor. Like no, fools Apple didn't come down from Heaven to sell you a 1,000 dollar iPhone. The fact that people are happy to pay that only proves how low the collective economic sense is.

Apple would have you believe they are selling you some amazing security package. But the reality is, the security package is only necessary because of how vulnerable their devices are. I mean, there are few other examples where someone sells you something based on security, where you are more secure without it. It's like Apple is selling you a fence that comes pre-stocked with the intruders.

 

[Helioform]

Big win!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329502784090112001