Endgame: the real coming NWO (and I can’t wait!)

[Axl888]

You realize civil rights covered the rights of gays to not be killed or discriminated against right? And women are treated like property even in many of your churches today. Sexual abuse against women and minors, sordid homosexual affairs, spiritual abuse and fear mongering flow out of your American Evangelical churches along with innumerous cases of fraud and theft and you have the audacity to fling threats at people with your only excuse being "bUt tHaT's nOt rEaL cHrIsTiAnItY". Maybe you're not quite the fisherman of men you think you are?

You are right, I am not quite a "fisherman of men" and I dont pretend to be one for God himself will call all His people at His own appointed time...but I will tell you the truth bluntly for your sake for the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness (Romans 1:18-32)
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

 

[Drifter]

You are right, I am not quite a "fisherman of men" and I dont pretend to be one for God himself will call all His people at His own appointed time...but I will tell you the truth bluntly for your sake for the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness (Romans 1:18-32)
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

This verse should be shared the majority Western Christians nowadays . . . They could really use this warning.

 

[Axl888]

This verse should be shared the majority Western Christians nowadays . . . They could really use this warning.

Yes, this applies to everyone who does unrighteousness.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I find it interesting to observe that many people judge Christianity as false (based on the failings of Christians they know) by invoking the very moral standards it teaches!

The irony appears wasted...

 

[Zombiekirk]

No, Christians (true ones) were not taught to do such things.

You obviously have a corrupted view of morality, but this has been prophesied, people like you will accept the sign of the beast, as indeed we are already in the end times...but perhaps it is still not too late for you my friend, I do pray that you will come to repentance and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and saviour.

Have you read the bible? Women are literally property. The apostles go around demanding money from everyone, and one farmer dared to keep some back for him and his wife. She had absolutely no knowledge of this and the bible even states this. The apostles strike the husband down, then do the same to the wife, in the knowledge she didn’t know.

also, Jesus gets pissy with a guy because he won’t immediately drop everything and follow him. He doesn’t even let him fetch his wife and child to also follow Jesus.

if You want to find morals, the bible is a terrible reference point. These are just two examples of women and children being disposable, and common decency and reason being abandoned for unquestioning loyalty or else death. How is this ok?

 

[TokiEl]

I find it interesting to observe that many people judge Christianity as false (based on the failings of Christians they know) by invoking the very moral standards it teaches!

When christians make light of sins... of course godly people will object.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

When christians make light of sins... of course godly people will object.

God doesn’t make light of sins. As Christians grow and mature, they should understand God’s heart better and take on godly character.

 

[Drifter]

I find it interesting to observe that many people judge Christianity as false (based on the failings of Christians they know) by invoking the very moral standards it teaches!

The irony appears wasted...

It's just holding people accountable because the most hand-wringing, high-brow, self-righteous, hell-lusting screed usually come from those with more skeletons in their closet than a graveyard. There is a lot of questionable morality in the bible. Surely you cant deny that outright without some kind of verbose wordplay. Or maybe more faith is just needed to get over moral objections.

 

[Anri]

Have you read the bible? Women are literally property. The apostles go around demanding money from everyone, and one farmer dared to keep some back for him and his wife. She had absolutely no knowledge of this and the bible even states this. The apostles strike the husband down, then do the same to the wife, in the knowledge she didn’t know.

also, Jesus gets pissy with a guy because he won’t immediately drop everything and follow him. He doesn’t even let him fetch his wife and child to also follow Jesus.

if You want to find morals, the bible is a terrible reference point. These are just two examples of women and children being disposable, and common decency and reason being abandoned for unquestioning loyalty or else death. How is this ok?

You have clearly misunderstood many parts of the bible. The apostles did not go around demanding money. Paul simply stated that those who work for God by spreading the gospel should earn their living by it. Do you actually think that missionaries should starve to death?

Also Ananias and Saphira were struck down by God but not because they kept part of the money, but because they lied about giving the apostles all of the money and tried to deceive the Holy Spirit. It says in the Bible that blasphemy against the Holy spirit is unpardonable.

And Jesus wasn't really saying that the man wasn't allowed to have any contact with his family. Jesus meant that one needs to follow Him wholeheartedly, not just partially.

The bible is not always just the plain text. You need to find the deeper meaning.

 

[recure]

It's just holding people accountable because the most hand-wringing, high-brow, self-righteous, hell-lusting screed usually come from those with more skeletons in their closet than a graveyard. There is a lot of questionable morality in the bible. Surely you cant deny that outright without some kind of verbose wordplay. Or maybe more faith is just needed to get over moral objections.

What is the moral standard by which you judge whether something is "questionable"?

 

[Drifter]

What is the moral standard by which you judge whether something is "questionable"?

Whatever causes harm to other people=bad. Not that difficult.

 

[recure]

Whatever causes harm to other people=bad. Not that difficult.

I agree with your statement, but you did not give a standard but a moral judgment. It seems implied that whatever falls outside of these parameters is not immoral, in which case it resembles the Wiccan phrase: "An it harm none, do what thou wilt". Would you say, for instance, that theft is morally justified if it does not cause harm to another person?

 

[Zombiekirk]

You have clearly misunderstood many parts of the bible. The apostles did not go around demanding money. Paul simply stated that those who work for God by spreading the gospel should earn their living by it. Do you actually think that missionaries should starve to death?

Also Ananias and Saphira were not striken down by God because they kept some of the money, but because they lied about giving the apostles all of the money and tried to deceive the Holy Spirit. It says in the Bible that blasphemy against the Holy spirit is unpardonable.

And Jesus wasn't really saying that the man wasn't allowed to have any contact with his family. Jesus meant that one needs to follow Him wholeheartedly, not just partly.

The bible is not always just the plain text. You need to find the deeper meaning.

But she had no part in the lie. It specified this. If you have to really stretch to excuse striking someone down because they wouldn’t hand over all of their hard earned money, then I’m sorry but I’m not convinced. If Jesus had meant that, it wasn’t clear. The man literally says he needs to go speak to his family, and Jesus rebukes him. Nowhere does it mention the man is on the fence, he just wants to do the right thing but Jesus expects him to abandon everything right then and there. What IS in plain text is cruelty, a false sense of right and wrong and using religion as a tool to punish and control.

 

[Maldarker]

It's just holding people accountable because the most hand-wringing, high-brow, self-righteous, hell-lusting screed usually come from those with more skeletons in their closet than a graveyard. There is a lot of questionable morality in the bible. Surely you cant deny that outright without some kind of verbose wordplay. Or maybe more faith is just needed to get over moral objections.

Old saying, "that those that are the loudest have the most to hide."

 

[Drifter]

I agree with your statement, but you did not give a standard but a moral judgment. It seems implied that whatever falls outside of these parameters is not immoral, in which case it resembles the Wiccan phrase: "An it harm none, do what thou wilt". Would you say, for instance, that theft is morally justified if it does not cause harm to another person?

I think you misunderstand me. I am not an atheist, I am a disillusioned agnostic with more questions than answers. But I dont think that people need the bible to have a moral guide -that's a mistake often made in arguing for Christianity and it's a principle lived out in real lives many times where "heathens" can prove to show something closer to resembling "the heart of Christ" than the fire and brimstone crowd. Is the touchstone not supposed to be the redemption offered by Christ's death and resurrection, not the promise of a moral guidebook? Isnt it spirit over works (applied morality)? Is it not a clean heart that leads to clean deeds, and not an exaltation of the latter as some sort of superiority trumpcard over "the sick and dirty"? At least that's how I understand it.

 

[Drifter]

Old saying, "that those that are the loudest have the most to hide."

If you're referring to the clanging gong zealot crowd then yes.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I think you misunderstand me. I am not an atheist, I am a disillusioned agnostic with more questions than answers. But I dont think that people need the bible to have a moral guide -that's a mistake often made in arguing for Christianity and it's a principle lived out in real lives many times where "heathens" can prove to show something closer to resembling "the heart of Christ" than the fire and brimstone crowd. Is the touchstone not supposed to be the redemption offered by Christ's death and resurrection, not the promise of a moral guidebook? Isnt it spirit over works (applied morality)? Is it not a clean heart that leads to clean deeds, and not an exaltation of the latter as some sort of superiority trumpcard over "the sick and dirty"? At least that's how I understand it.

I think you are touching on something that is sometimes referred to as “Divine Command Theory”, where some people wrongly deduce that Atheists must be immoral if they don’t acknowledge God. Of course, the truth is more interesting and nuanced than that.

David Wood treats the subject pretty intelligently (as an ex atheist, psychopath Christian). The psychopath part of his make-up makes his perspective particularly interesting as he really doesn’t care what people think of him, and will tell it as he sees it regardless:-

 

[Maldarker]

I think you misunderstand me. I am not an atheist, I am a disillusioned agnostic with more questions than answers. But I dont think that people need the bible to have a moral guide -that's a mistake often made in arguing for Christianity and it's a principle lived out in real lives many times where "heathens" can prove to show something closer to resembling "the heart of Christ" than the fire and brimstone crowd. Is the touchstone not supposed to be the redemption offered by Christ's death and resurrection, not the promise of a moral guidebook? Isnt it spirit over works (applied morality)? Is it not a clean heart that leads to clean deeds, and not an exaltation of the latter as some sort of superiority trumpcard over "the sick and dirty"? At least that's how I understand it.

GOD said he wrote his basic law on everyone's heart. The problem with religion is the same as "CHRIST's" time with the Pharisees and the Sadducees. I get where your coming from. Disillusioned with religion and the people that cling to their religious rags thinking that those cover their blemishes marks sins "nope sorry" those are the ones doing the most damage to the name of CHRIST. So yes i am disillusioned with that not CHRIST.

 

[Drifter]

GOD said he wrote his basic law on everyone's heart. The problem with religion is the same as "CHRIST's" time with the Pharisees and the Sadducees. I get where your coming from. Disillusioned with religion and the people that cling to their religious rags thinking that those cover their blemishes marks sins "nope sorry" those are the ones doing the most damage to the name of CHRIST. So yes i am disillusioned with that not CHRIST.

Despite Christianity's track record, I think Jesus was/is a pretty amazing man. It's just all the other stuff that I grapple with.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Despite Christianity's track record, I think Jesus was/is a pretty amazing man. It's just all the other stuff that I grapple with.

As if on cue, about 16 minutes in, David Wood finds himself talking about similar issues to this very thread!