Dr. William Campbell destroyed by Dr. Zakir Naik on scientific errors in the Bible MUST WATCH!!

Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
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The issue with the "Christian scholars" you refer to is that a good many of them are not Christians. Many dissect the scriptures trying do remove from them a God they do not wish to find!
I edited my post. I'm not familiar with Jesus Seminar or it's scholars.

I don't agree with your opinion. Perhaps atheists do not want to find a God in the NT, but there are many Christian scholars who believe in God despite the inconsistencies and fallacies of the Christian doctrine.
 

elsbet

Superstar
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
5,122
The issue with the "Christian scholars" you refer to is that a good many of them are not Christians. Many dissect the scriptures trying do remove from them a God they do not wish to find!
You're absolutely right. If you really want to have some fun, look up the history (or the genesis) of the 7 Sciences and the degrees.

I think it's odd, though... they say the illiteracy of their uneducated prophet proves he was inspired by their god. But everyone else must be schooled in earthly wisdom, if they are to make judgment call on the material? I fail to see the logic.

LUKE 10:21


Oh what the heck... here:
THE 2ND DEGREE
7 LIBERAL ARTS & SCIENCES
 

phipps

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Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
4,239
@Haich, here are two videos that are about the scientific inaccuracies in the Quran. The first one is not Christian but he delves more into one particular scientific wrong and also quotes what your scholars say about it on both Sunni and Shia or Shiite sides. He is more researched.


This one doesn't elaborate as much.

 
Last edited:

phipps

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Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
4,239
The Trinity Led Me to Islam - An Irish Dentist Embraces Islam

My name is Roger Hadden, and I am originally from Dungannon in Northern Ireland. I am a dentist currently working in England. I have lived in Northern Ireland and Scotland, and I am now based in England. I was raised as a Christian, and my parents are born-again Christians.

Although I was raised with the teachings of the Bible, I did not particularly adhere to its principles. I suppose I was like most British youth, in that I liked to have fun but maybe didn't know where the limits were set. While I did not practice any religion, I always believed that there was a God.

I was scientifically minded, but realized that acknowledging there was a Big Bang did not necessarily rule out the possibility of there being a God who controlled and planned this event. We could not have come out of nothing, and we did not create ourselves, so we must have been created.

I thought about God from time to time, but it never had a real impact on my heart. My first encounter with Islam I suppose was the media, but I tend not to judge people or things until I see or find out about them myself and hear both sides of the story.

When I went to university I met many Muslims. At that time we discussed religion a little, but I was not seriously thinking about becoming religious. My desires were too strong, so I just wanted to enjoy myself. At that time, I knew that at some stage I would want to change my ways and become a Christian. I then would also want to find out about other religions and understand what makes people believe in them.

When I was in final year at university, I made plans to reform myself and become as my parents, a "born-again Christian". So I started my research with reading the Bible. The concept of the Trinity always bothered me, and it was my main aim to understand it. I remember as a child wanting to ask God for something. I was not sure whether to pray to God or to pray to Jesus. I decided to pray to God as I knew if He created everything, then He will hear me and help me.

I spoke to some ministers, and several attempts were made to explain the Trinity. None of them convinced me. I continued to read the Bible, searching for the truth. Obviously I am not a scholar in the Christian religion but the Trinity issue bugged me. Why did the Old Testament prophets all pray to God and do righteous acts hoping for God's forgiveness? Who did Jesus pray to? There was no mention of the Trinity in the Old Testament, and many argue none in the New Testament. I knew God did not change, so there was a problem somewhere.

I spoke to my friends at University. Some were Sikhs, Catholics, atheists, and some were Muslims. My conversion changed my life completely, and looking back I know I made the correct decision When I found out that Islam commands the worship of One God, and not to make any partners with Him, I was very interested.

I continued reading the Bible and Christian sources but also started reading some Islamic books. I read that Muslims believe that God sent his message to mankind through different prophets since Adam the first man. All the prophets believed in only One God and they also believed that there was going to be a day of reckoning when everyone will be raised and judged. I realized that this is what I believe, and what I thought the Bible was saying to me.

I discussed things with my parents, and they were not too impressed. Within a couple of months by the grace of God I became a Muslim. My conversion changed my life completely, and looking back, I know I made the correct decision, thank God.

Instead of living my life in a selfish way pleasing my desires, I try now to help others and please my Lord. I have now been a Muslim for five years and I am still learning new and amazing things about the religion. Every time I hear something "negative" about the religion, I get the issue explained to me and it turns out to be a very positive and beautiful thing.

I am continuing to learn Arabic and the Quran. In my career it has made me much more focused, and I now desire to do everything to my best ability. My friends at university are often surprised with regards to my change, especially relating to dentistry. My parents believed I was brainwashed, and many of my friends thought, and still think, it is just a phase.

As it has been over five years now, my parents know it is not just a phase. I first told my parents that I was thinking of becoming a Muslim, and they told me that it was a "hate religion" and that I should not do it. We talked about it for a while, and as I was convinced, I was sure I had to do it. I did not want to be punished in the next life. A few months later I took the best step and embraced Islam. The same day my Dad bought me a car, not as a conversion gift, rather, it was his kindness and it just happened to be on the same day.

Since university, I have always lived away from my parents but I try to visit them a couple of times a year. Overall though, I feel my relationship with my parents has improved, as I try to be good to them as God commands in the Quran. I have moved on from university and lost contact with many of my friends, some I speak to now and again, but as with life, we keep moving on and old friends we see less of and new friends are made.

I am currently working as a dentist in the UK. I am working and doing a part time masters program. I am learning Arabic, and I regularly attend Islamic talks and seminars in order to increase my knowledge. I am married to a very special lady and we have, by the grace of God a beautiful 1-year- old boy named Ismael (Ishmael from the Bible). We are trying to improve as Muslims, and we would like to travel abroad to a Muslim country. Ideally we would both love to study Islam to a higher level, so we are looking for opportunities to fulfill this dream.

My Reasons Why I Quit Islam Forever

I was born in a devout Muslim family belonging to Sunni sect of Islam. I come from an Islamic country but currently I live in a western country. During every Ramadan I used to faithfully fast. During my University study, one of my subjects was Islamic Studies. My professor of the subject glorified Islam and taught all the good deeds of the prophet of Islam. I was taught that Quran is the perfect and the best book sent by God. Islam should be dominant and supersede all the religions of the world. However I realized that he never mentioned why the prophet was so violent and killed so many people. He never mentioned the numerous contradictions in the Quran. He was blowing the trumpet of how other people were converting to Islam but he was in a state of denial (just like most Muslims) with the fact that many Muslims were leaving Islam.

The Islamic teachings that I received were accepted totally by me in the beginning. I defended Islam at all costs. I hated anyone who criticized the prophet or Islam. However, when I read ‘23 Years of Prophet’ by Ali Dashti, and when I went through various web-sites like Answering-islam.org, Faithfreedom.org, and the Prophetofdoom.net, and had discussions with non-Muslims, I began to lift my head out of the sand. I started analysing the Quran and the Islamic teachings and I realized that the mullahs and the Islamic scholars were hoodwinking the Muslims. From my childhood I hated violence in any form. To my utter dismay I found out that Quran is full of violence. For example, Quran 8:12 (Hilali- Khan) states “(Remember) when your Lord inspired the angels, “Verily, I am with you, so keep firm those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved, so strike them over the necks, and smite over all their fingers and toes.” ” I discussed this verse with the mullahs and they stated that I have taken it out of context. I replied that the whole Quran has no context and chronology in the first place. They told many lies to cover up. They quoted the Meccan verse (By the way, non violent Meccan verses have been abrogated by violent Medina verses) that says he that kills a man is like killing the whole humanity, and he that saves a man is like saving the whole humanity (Quran 5:32). However this whole verse had been plagiarized verbatim from Mishnah Sanhedrin 4:5. This Mishnah was present 400 years before Quran. Quran 8:39 (Hilali-Khan) states “And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.” The context of this verse is not that Islam should dominate other religions but the only religion in the world and so Muslims should fight and annihilate all non-believers till there is only Islam in the whole world. This tenet of violence and killing made me to dislike Islam and leave it.

All Muslims say that Islam is a religion of peace, but I was thinking how this can be a religion of peace when it teaches to kill the non-believers by any method. Again, if any religion teaches to kill a believer if he/she leaves it, then it is not a religion but an evil cult. Islam teaches to kill its apostates. Quran 4:89 emphatically states that all apostates in Islam should be killed. Many references in hadith show that ex-Muslims were killed and are to be killed. Hence, I realized that Islam is not a religion but an evil cult. I was always for the equality of man and woman, but since Islam teaches opposite I had no option but to leave Islam. Quran 4:34 recommends beating a disobedient wife. Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 9, Number 493, quotes, “Narrated Aisha: The things which annul prayer were mentioned before me (and those were): a dog, donkey and a woman. I said, ‘You have compared us (women) to donkeys and dogs.’” Muslim Book 1 Number 142 quotes Muhammad the prophet saying, “O womenfolk, you should ask forgiveness for I saw you in bulk among the dwellers of Hell.” In Islam women are treated like animals with no freedom and equal rights. Three shots from the Divorce gun in the hand of Muslim man Divorce, Divorce, Divorce” will condemn even the most obedient wife to a life of ignominy and suffering. In Quran there is no punishment for the greatest crime to womenfolk, which is r*pe. On the other hand if a woman gets raped she will never ever get justice unless she produces four witnesses, who have actually seen the penetration during this horrid episode. This is bizarre procedure to get the witnesses who silently enjoyed the r*pe scene like in a theatre, and remember that those four watchers should be perfect believers with long beards as well.

Another reason why I left Islam is that Quran is full of internal contradictions, scientific errors and historical blunders. Muslims claim that Quran is ‘a miracle of miracles.’ This statement is a blatant and greatest lie ever told. Here are a few samples of contradictions in Quran: examples of internal sontradictions– 54:19 mentions Aad was destroyed in a day but 69:6,7 mentions Aad was destroyed in seven nights and eight days; 19:17 shows an angel appeared to Mary but 3:42 shows several angels appeared; 28:40 mentions pharaoh drowned and died but 10:92 states that the same pharaoh was saved; examples of scientific errors–18:86 states that sun sets in a muddy spring of water; 15:19 mentions earth is flat; 86:6,7 states that semen emits from between back-bone and the ribs; examples of historical blunders—19:27,28 states that Mary was the sister of Aaron, whereas history shows they were born about 1300 years apart; 28:8 tells that pharaoh and Haman were living at the same time and place whereas history clearly shows they were born about 1000 years apart and pharaoh lived in Egypt and Haman lived in shushan city in Persia; and 4:157 says that Jesus was not crucified whereas it is crystal clear in historical records that Jesus was crucified and not another man who looked like Jesus. By the way, the transliterated name of Jesus in arabic Quran is Isa but even this is wrong because the name of Esau, brother of Jacob (Yaqub in arabic) is Isa in arabic. The correct transliterated name of Jesus in arabic is Yasu. Isa (Esau) means ‘hairy’ and Yasu (Jesus) means ‘God saves.’ Muslims tell so many lies to cover up all internal contradictions, scientific errors and historical blunders in Quran. Any sane person can become sick of Muslim apologists’ deception and lies of ‘out of context,’ ‘bad translation’ and ‘arabic Quran can not be translated’ to hide and conceal the contradictions in the Quran.

I was taught to love Mohammad the prophet more than anybody and anything in the world. He was best of creation, and a mercy sent to the earth by Allah. All Muslims believe that Mohammad was faultless, sinless and perfect but Quran 48:2; 47:19; 40:55 reveal that Allah told Mohammad to ask forgiveness for his faults and also for the sins that he will be committing in the future. Wherever Mohammad went, he showed no mercy to non-believers but tortured, raped serially, killed, assassinated and committed genocide. All muslims have to say ‘peace be upon him’, whenever they mention the prophet’s name, but I discovered in Quran, Sira (biography of the prophet) by Ishaq and all hadith that when he was weak, he tried to follow peace and endured all the scoffing and ridicule, but when he was strong and had a large horde of powerful militants and terrorists, he tore all the peace treaties into pieces and destroyed peace wherever he went. Even till today his followers the Mohammedans i.e. Muslims pretend to follow peace when they are weak but when they are strong they destroy peace and harmony. Muslims tell don’t blaspheme Mohammad the prophet. Islamic countries have enacted blasphemy laws and they torture, imprison and kill innocent persons and minorities over trivial matter. The fact is that man cannot blaspheme man but he can only blaspheme God if he wants to do so. If a person is accused of blaspheming someone then that someone is God. The politically correct western governments and the toothless UNO are doing nothing to protest against these diabolic and wicked blasphemy laws concerning a dead man called Mohammed. Mohammedans i.e. Muslims say Mohammad was a man yet they treat him like or equal to God. Quran 4:80 (Hilali-Khan) tells “He who obeys the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), has indeed obeyed Allah.” This verse reveals Mohammad is equal to Allah. Quran 33:56 (Palmer) says “Verily, God and His angels pray for the prophet. O ye who believe! pray for him and salute him with a salutation!.” The above verse shows that Mohammad is greater than Allah because God does not pray for man. The arabic word used in 33:56 is ‘yusalloo’ which means pray. But other translators of Quran deceitfully translate ‘yusalloo’ as bless. But when the same word ‘yusalloo’ is used in Quran 4:102 those translators translate it as pray and not as bless.

Hence, one sees the deceitfulness of the translators here. Quran 49:2-4 and 33:53 reveal that Allah is acting lower in rank to prophet, that is, like a servant to Mohammad because Allah tells the believers to lower their voice and not to talk loudly in the presence of prophet; not to tarry long in prophet’s house and to talk to his wives only from behind the curtain and the prophet is embarrassed to tell you this but Allah is not. Any unbiased man and person with common sense can understand from the above Quranic verses that the author of Quran is not Allah but Mohammad who made himself equal to or sometimes greater than God. Tabari (contains Islamic hadith chronologically) IX: 187 states “Bakr saw that Umar would not listen. He went forward. ‘Those people who formerly worshipped Muhammad must know that the deity you worshipped is dead.’ ”

Though Islam teaches monotheism yet some verses of Quran and Hadith and Muslims by their actions support and are guilty of dual theism (Allah and Mohammad), prophetaltry (worship of prophet) and Quranaltry (worship of Quran). Since Muslims treat Mohammad like or equal to God, I quit Islam forever. At present I love the message of Lord Jesus who taught love, fraternity and peace in all his teachings. His entire message is love for humanity. Lord Christ died on the cross for the sins of humanity and was resurrected, to save the world. He never ever killed any human but only healed and saved all whereas Mohammad the prophet tortured and killed many. I would not like to even compare Lord Christ’s teachings with the Islamic nonsense of violence, looting, plundering, killing,enslaving and raping the non-believers.

I wish that my testimony could open the eyes of other Muslims, who like to live in harmony with non-Muslims, lift their heads out of the sand and quit the cult of Islam. A caveat to Muslims that are brain dead zombies: my testimony is not fake and do not deceive yourselves that no Muslim will leave Islam
because Muslims are quitting Islam by scores. All westerners, liberals, leftists, rightists, media personnel, political leaders, government officials and non-Muslims, remember you are all kaffirs destined to be killed and burn forever in hell according to Islam. So please unite, stop being politically correct, help to stop the immigration flooding of Muslims to western countries and don’t be deceived by Islam. Because both
types of Muslims, that is, Islamic terrorists who use jihad, bombing and explosions and so-called Muslim moderates who use deception, conversion techniques, and mass population explosions by birth and immigration to western countries, are both trying very hard to achieve the same goal, which is to
fulfill Quran 8:39 that states there should be only one religion (Islam) for Allah in the whole world.


Abdullah Qasim
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
3,150
My Reasons Why I Quit Islam
Forever
I was born in a devout Muslim family belonging to Sunni sect
of Islam. I come from an Islamic country but currently I live
in a western country. During every Ramadan I used to
faithfully fast. During my University study, one of my
subjects was Islamic Studies. My professor of the subject
glorified Islam and taught all the good deeds of the prophet
of Islam. I was taught that Quran is the perfect and the best
book sent by God. Islam should be dominant and supersede all
the religions of the world. However I realized that he never
mentioned why the prophet was so violent and killed so many
people. He never mentioned the numerous contradictions in the
Quran. He was blowing the trumpet of how other people were
converting to Islam but he was in a state of denial (just like
most Muslims) with the fact that many Muslims were leaving
Islam.
The Islamic teachings that I received were accepted totally by
me in the beginning. I defended Islam at all costs. I hated
anyone who criticized the prophet or Islam. However, when I
read ‘23 Years of Prophet’ by Ali Dashti, and when I went
through various web-sites like Answering-islam.org,
Faithfreedom.org, and the Prophetofdoom.net, and had
discussions with non-Muslims, I began to lift my head out of
the sand. I started analysing the Quran and the Islamic
teachings and I realized that the mullahs and the Islamic
scholars were hoodwinking the Muslims.
From my childhood I hated violence in any form. To my utter
dismay I found out that Quran is full of violence. For
example, Quran 8:12 (Hilali- Khan) states “(Remember) when
your Lord inspired the angels, “Verily, I am with you, so keep
firm those who have believed. I will cast terror into the
hearts of those who have disbelieved, so strike them over the
necks, and smite over all their fingers and toes.” ” I
discussed this verse with the mullahs and they stated that I
have taken it out of context. I replied that the whole Quran
has no context and chronology in the first place. They told
many lies to cover up. They quoted the Meccan verse (By the
way, non violent Meccan verses have been abrogated by violent
Medina verses) that says he that kills a man is like killing
the whole humanity, and he that saves a man is like saving the
whole humanity (Quran 5:32). However this whole verse had been
plagiarized verbatim from Mishnah Sanhedrin 4:5. This Mishnah
was present 400 years before Quran. Quran 8:39 (Hilali-Khan)
states “And fight them until there is no more Fitnah
(disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides
Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone
[in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping
others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of
what they do.” The context of this verse is not that Islam
should dominate other religions but the only religion in the
world and so Muslims should fight and annihilate all non-
believers till there is only Islam in the whole world. This
tenet of violence and killing made me to dislike Islam and
leave it.
All Muslims say that Islam is a religion of peace, but I was
thinking how this can be a religion of peace when it teaches
to kill the non-believers by any method. Again, if any
religion teaches to kill a believer if he/she leaves it, then
it is not a religion but an evil cult. Islam teaches to kill
its apostates. Quran 4:89 emphatically states that all
apostates in Islam should be killed. Many references in hadith
show that ex-Muslims were killed and are to be killed. Hence,
I realized that Islam is not a religion but an evil cult.
I was always for the equality of man and woman, but since
Islam teaches opposite I had no option but to leave Islam.
Quran 4:34 recommends beating a disobedient wife. Sahih
Bukhari Volume 1, Book 9, Number 493, quotes, “ Narrated
Aisha: The things which annul prayer were mentioned before me
(and those were): a dog, donkey and a woman. I said, ‘You have
compared us (women) to donkeys and dogs.’” Muslim Book 1
Number 142 quotes Muhammad the prophet saying, “O womenfolk,
you should ask forgiveness for I saw you in bulk among the
dwellers of Hell.” In Islam women are treated like animals
with no freedom and equal rights. Three shots from the Divorce
gun in the hand of Muslim man “Divorce, Divorce, Divorce” will
condemn even the most obedient wife to a life of ignominy and
suffering. In Quran there is no punishment for the greatest
crime to womenfolk, which is r*pe. On the other hand if a
woman gets raped she will never ever get justice unless she
produces four witnesses, who have actually seen the
penetration during this horrid episode. This is bizarre
procedure to get the witnesses who silently enjoyed the r*pe
scene like in a theatre, and remember that those four watchers
should be perfect believers with long beards as well.
Another reason why I left Islam is that Quran is full of
internal contradictions, scientific errors and historical
blunders. Muslims claim that Quran is ‘a miracle of miracles.’
This statement is a blatant and greatest lie ever told. Here
are a few samples of contradictions in Quran: examples of
internal contradictions– 54:19 mentions Aad was destroyed in a
day but 69:6,7 mentions Aad was destroyed in seven nights and
eight days; 19:17 shows an angel appeared to Mary but 3:42
shows several angels appeared; 28:40 mentions pharaoh drowned
and died but 10:92 states that the same pharaoh was saved;
examples of scientific errors–18:86 states that sun sets in a
muddy spring of water; 15:19 mentions earth is flat; 86:6,7
states that semen emits from between back-bone and the ribs;
examples of historical blunders—19:27,28 states that Mary was
the sister of Aaron, whereas history shows they were born
about 1300 years apart; 28:8 tells that pharaoh and Haman were
living at the same time and place whereas history clearly
shows they were born about 1000 years apart and pharaoh lived
in Egypt and Haman lived in Shushan city in Persia; and 4:157
says that Jesus was not crucified whereas it is crystal clear
in historical records that Jesus was crucified and not another
man who looked like Jesus. By the way, the transliterated name
of Jesus in arabic Quran is Isa but even this is wrong because
the name of Esau, brother of Jacob (Yaqub in arabic) is Isa in
arabic. The correct transliterated name of Jesus in arabic is
Yasu. Isa (Esau) means ‘hairy’ and Yasu (Jesus) means ‘God
saves.’ Muslims tell so many lies to cover up all internal
contradictions, scientific errors and historical blunders in
Quran. Any sane person can become sick of Muslim apologists’
deception and lies of ‘out of context,’ ‘bad translation’ and
‘arabic Quran can not be translated’ to hide and conceal the
contradictions in the Quran.
I was taught to love Mohammad the prophet more than anybody
and anything in the world. He was best of creation, and a
mercy sent to the earth by Allah. All Muslims believe that
Mohammad was faultless, sinless and perfect but Quran 48:2;
47:19; 40:55 reveal that Allah told Mohammad to ask
forgiveness for his faults and also for the sins that he will
be committing in the future. Wherever Mohammad went, he showed
no mercy to non-believers but tortured, raped serially,
killed, assassinated and committed genocide. All Muslims have
to say ‘peace be upon him’, whenever they mention the
prophet’s name, but I discovered in Quran, Sira (biography of
the prophet) by Ishaq and all hadith that when he was weak, he
tried to follow peace and endured all the scoffing and
ridicule, but when he was strong and had a large horde of
powerful militants and terrorists, he tore all the peace
treaties into pieces and destroyed peace wherever he went.
Even till today his followers the Mohammedans i.e. Muslims
pretend to follow peace when they are weak but when they are
strong they destroy peace and harmony.
Muslims tell don’t blaspheme Mohammad the prophet. Islamic
countries have enacted blasphemy laws and they torture,
imprison and kill innocent persons and minorities over trivial
matter. The fact is that man cannot blaspheme man but he can
only blaspheme God if he wants to do so. If a person is
accused of blaspheming someone then that someone is God. The
politically correct western governments and the toothless UNO
are doing nothing to protest against these diabolic and wicked
blasphemy laws concerning a dead man called Mohammed.
Mohammedans i.e. Muslims say Mohammad was a man yet they treat
him like or equal to God. Quran 4:80 (Hilali-Khan) tells “He
who obeys the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), has indeed obeyed
Allah.” This verse reveals Mohammad is equal to Allah. Quran
33:56 (Palmer) says “Verily, God and His angels pray for the
prophet. O ye who believe! pray for him and salute him with a
salutation!.” The above verse shows that Mohammad is greater
than Allah because God does not pray for man. The arabic word
used in 33:56 is ‘yusalloo’ which means pray. But other
translators of Quran deceitfully translate ‘yusalloo’ as
bless. But when the same word ‘yusalloo’ is used in Quran
4:102 those translators translate it as pray and not as bless.
Hence, one sees the deceitfulness of the translators here.
Quran 49:2-4 and 33:53 reveal that Allah is acting lower in
rank to prophet, that is, like a servant to Mohammad because
Allah tells the believers to lower their voice and not to talk
loudly in the presence of prophet; not to tarry long in
prophet’s house and to talk to his wives only from behind the
curtain and the prophet is embarrassed to tell you this but
Allah is not. Any unbiased man and person with common sense
can understand from the above Quranic verses that the author
of Quran is not Allah but Mohammad who made himself equal to
or sometimes greater than God. Tabari (contains Islamic hadith
chronologically) IX: 187 states “Bakr saw that Umar would not
listen. He went forward. ‘Those people who formerly worshipped
Muhammad must know that the deity you worshipped is dead.’ ”
Though Islam teaches monotheism yet some verses of Quran and
Hadith and Muslims by their actions support and are guilty of
dual theism (Allah and Mohammad), prophetaltry (worship of
prophet) and Quranaltry (worship of Quran). Since Muslims
treat Mohammad like or equal to God, I quit Islam forever.
At present I love the message of Lord Jesus who taught love,
fraternity and peace in all his teachings. His entire message
is love for humanity. Lord Christ died on the cross for the
sins of humanity and was resurrected, to save the world. He
never ever killed any human but only healed and saved all
whereas Mohammad the prophet tortured and killed many. I would
not like to even compare Lord Christ’s teachings with the
Islamic nonsense of violence, looting, plundering, killing,
enslaving and raping the non-believers.
I wish that my testimony could open the eyes of other Muslims,
who like to live in harmony with non-Muslims, lift their heads
out of the sand and quit the cult of Islam. A caveat to
Muslims that are brain dead zombies: my testimony is not fake
and do not deceive yourselves that no Muslim will leave Islam
because Muslims are quitting Islam by scores. All westerners,
liberals, leftists, rightists, media personnel, political
leaders, government officials and non-Muslims, remember you
are all kaffirs destined to be killed and burn forever in hell
according to Islam. So please unite, stop being politically
correct, help to stop the immigration flooding of Muslims to
western countries and don’t be deceived by Islam. Because both
types of Muslims, that is, Islamic terrorists who use jihad,
bombing and explosions and so-called Muslim moderates who use
deception, conversion techniques, and mass population
explosions by birth and immigration to western countries, are
both trying very hard to achieve the same goal, which is to
fulfill Quran 8:39 that states there should be only one
religion (Islam) for Allah in the whole world.
Perhaps if you cared enough to format, I could read it. :)
 

Haich

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
6,757
I don't really pay attention to convert stories because there's converts to different faiths all the time. It doesn't prove a faith right, people accept faiths which they gravitate towards.

I could post tons of Christian convert stories but what would it prove? Of course the person will disagree with the tenants of Christianity, they left it!
 

TokiEl

Superstar
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
7,239
So after a personal experience with the power of the Name of God... i of course reached for the dusty old Bible and began to study the unbelievable accounts about God angels demons and Jesus.

And i was convinced that His book the Bible must be able prove that Jesus is God.

There was the star of Bethlehem in the Gospel of Matthew describing a star in connection with the birth of Jesus. Now that's something tangible which can provide evidence for the written stories in the Bible. There was a star which according to the account guided wise men from the East to Jerusalem looking for the newborn king of the Jews. And Herod the king of Judea had no idea what they were talking about.

I love a good mystery but truth be told one Rick Larson had figured it out already and made a presentation called the Star of Bethlehem. And it was awsome to see the planetary movements pointing to Jesus... the implication of course is that the exact timing of His birth was decided before the planets began their orderly clockwork wandering across the sky.

Although the Jews proved to be in the dark about who the Messiah was and when He would come... i was convinced that His book the Bible would provide all the answers necessary to prove who Jesus was and when He would come.

And i found the timing of the Messiah in the book of Daniel chapter 9. An angel Gabriel visited Daniel and told him exactly when the Messiah would come.

"...,from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks:" - Daniel 9:25

Most have messed up this prophecy of the angel Gabriel. But it points to the Spring of 33 AD and is easy to prove which i have done several times on here already.

So we got historical astronomical and prophetic proof that the Messiah is Jesus Christ and that His exact timing was foretold in His book long before it came to pass... besides we got the personal experience with His power as God.

I was not going to believe any text pretending to be from God in blind faith... and with the Bible i didn't have to.
 

phipps

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from my point of view: Satan is definitely working out there to make the sons of Adam worship the creation instead of the Creator.God guides whom He wills. Peace.
I wanted to show you that there are just as many stories of Muslims who convert to Christianity too. In my church we have a few and I have to say they are some of the best people I know. One thing I can say about Muslims is they are very serious and devoted to their religion and its no different when they convert either. We could learn from them in that aspect. I know I will never agree with Islam (which I think is a false religion) and its many contradictions. It seems their prophet who is revered almost more than God Himself (that is not monotheism) could do what he wanted and make excuses for them. Apparently Allah made excuses for him to sin, so I've read. We'll have to agree to disagree on that front. God bless.
 
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cfowen

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Timothy is Paul the Apostle’s Son.

But every word of the Bible is God-given truth.
I think that Timothy held the legal position of Paul's "Son", even though he was not Paul's natural progeny.

Back then, most all civilized societies had a "law of adoption", which was mainly designed for inheritance purposes. A natural-born male "child" could not inherit unless he entered into "Sonship" and became a "Son", through a legal adoption procedure. A male could "adopt" a person unrelated to him and make that person his legal "Son", or heir. That "Son" would rank higher than any unadopted natural "children" the man might have. This was often used as a ploy when a King didn't want his natural "child" to become King when he died, so he would "adopt" the person he wanted to succeed him. I'm thinking this was also used several times by the Roman Caesars.

Only a "Son" could inherit. An adopted Son was an automatic heir. An unadopted "child's" position was no better than a slave. In fact, the unadopted natural "child" could be sold into slavery (and often was) by the father, if I remember right.

Rom 9:4 speaks of the advantages the Jews during Acts had over the Gentiles. It says, "Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption. In other words, only the Israelites were Sons of God and, therefore, would have an inheritance from God. We find more proof of this in Eph 2:11-12. In vs 11, it speaks of a time when the Gentiles were called "uncircuncision" by the "circumcision", the Jews. The only place in the Bible where this term was recorded was during Acts. In vs 12, it says, at that time, in Acts, the Gentiles were without Christ and were without God in the world.. In Ac 28:28, the very end of Acts, it says that the Gentiles were , at that time, given the Salvation of God, which surely means they didn't have it before then. I believe the "Salvation of God" is Jesus Christ, which would fit well with Eph 2:11-12.

What I just said about "adoption" is generally from memory of what I learned 30 years ago. I could have make some mistakes, although I don't think so. As I understand it, none of this was known until the 19th or early 20th Century and it was first discovered and written up by a famous Christian archeologist. I seem to remember the man's name was Ramsay. The KJV was written long before these laws were known and, as a result, the KJV has many occurrences of the words, "child", "children", "son", and "sons" totally screwed up and it's a mess. Child is often used where it should be rendered Son and visa versa. Child and children occur a total of 206 times in the KJV NT and son and sons, 368 times. I would suggest using Strong's to sort these out when you suspect it is in error. Thirty years ago, I noted these errors in an old Bible, but not all of them. I think Bullinger's Companion Bible does a decent job of sorting them out.

Anytime, in scripture, you see the words, "adoption", "adopted", "heir", "inheritance", "child", "children". "son", or "sons", remember that these are all legal terms and that their meanings were totally different than they are today

I think this passage from the KJV is fairly accurate in it's usage of "child" and "son". It sort of sums up what I have written.
Gal 4:1-7
1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
 
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I wanted to show you that there are just as many stories of Muslims who convert to Christianity too.
And I wanted to show you that to many former Christians, Trinity simply makes no sense.

I know I will never agree with Islam
Never say never. You don't control your heart, God does. Perhaps He will guide you to the truth of your salvation and you will become Muslim. peace.
 
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But trinity is the Crux (no pun intended) of your faith so even if the word itself is not mentioned anywhere in the OT or NT, there should at least be an abundance of CLEAR and UNAMBIGUOUS verses describing it. Of those you have NONE - NONE!
Romans 1:
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
 

Serveto

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They aren't terribly forthcoming on the previous scripture they're referring to... good luck!
What is it about the previous scriptures you would like to discuss?


"... Khadija then accompanied him [Muhammad] to her cousin Waraqa ...who, during the PreIslamic Period became a Christian and used to write the writing with Hebrew letters. He would write from the Gospel in Hebrew as much as Allah wished him to write ..."
Vol 1, Book 1, No. 3

To me, and the bold emphases in this post are mine, it sounds as though, quite possibly, Waraqa had something it seems no Christian has today: an original gospel in Hebrew or Aramaic, Jesus' probable language and mother tongue. Without exception, our canonical, New Testamentary gospels are all Greek based. However, St. Jerome (340-420 A.D.), when translating the Vulgate, which ultimately contributed to the Protestant King James Version, apparently had the original Matthew Gospel in Hebrew, which he used to correct our present Greek-based version. Such a pity, it seems to me, that the original Aramaic (Matthew) gospel seems, well, lost to us, and might be in some forgotten vault in the Vatican, disintegrating with age.

"... Let us now recall the testimony of the other ecclesiastical writers on the Gospel of St. Matthew. St. Irenæus (Adv. Haer., III, i, 2) affirms that Matthew published among the Hebrews a Gospel which he wrote in their own language. Eusebius (Church History V.10.3) says that, in India, Pantænus found the Gospel according to St. Matthew written in the Hebrew language, the Apostle Bartholomew having left it there. Again, in Church History VI.25.3-4, Eusebius tells us that Origen, in his first book on the Gospel of St. Matthew, states that he has learned from tradition that the First Gospel was written by Matthew, who, having composed it in Hebrew, published it for the converts from Judaism. According to Eusebius (Church History III.24.6), Matthew preached first to the Hebrews and, when obliged to go to other countries, gave them his Gospel written in his native tongue. St. Jerome has repeatedly declared that Matthew wrote his Gospel in Hebrew ("Ad Damasum", xx; "Ad Hedib.", iv), but says that it is not known with certainty who translated it into Greek. St. Cyril of Jerusalem, St. Gregory of Nazianzus, St. Epiphanius, St. John Chrysostom, St. Augustine, etc., and all the commentators of the Middle Agesrepeat that Matthew wrote his Gospel in Hebrew. Erasmus was the first to express doubts on this subject: "It does not seem probable to me that Matthew wrote in Hebrew, since no one testifies that he has seen any trace of such a volume." This is not accurate, as St. Jerome uses Matthew's Hebrew text several times to solve difficulties of interpretation, which proves that he had it at hand .."
Catholic Encyclopedia


 
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phipps

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What is it about the previous scriptures you would like to discuss?

"... Khadija then accompanied him [Muhammad] to her cousin Waraqa ...who, during the PreIslamic Period became a Christian and used to write the writing with Hebrew letters. He would write from the Gospel in Hebrew as much as Allah wished him to write ..."


To me, and the bold emphases in this post are mine, it sounds as though, quite possibly, Waraqa had something it seems no Christian has today: an original gospel in Hebrew or Aramaic, Jesus' probable language and mother tongue. Without exception, our canonical, New Testamentary gospels are all Greek based. However, St. Jerome (340-420 A.D.), when translating the Vulgate, which ultimately contributed to the Protestant King James Version, apparently had the original Matthew Gospel in Hebrew, which he used to correct our present Greek-based version. Such a pity, it seems to me, that the original Aramaic (Matthew) gospel seems, well, lost to us, and might be in some forgotten vault in the Vatican, disintegrating with age.

"... Let us now recall the testimony of the other ecclesiastical writers on the Gospel of St. Matthew. St. Irenæus (Adv. Haer., III, i, 2) affirms that Matthew published among the Hebrews a Gospel which he wrote in their own language. Eusebius (Church History V.10.3) says that, in India, Pantænus found the Gospel according to St. Matthew written in the Hebrew language, the Apostle Bartholomew having left it there. Again, in Church History VI.25.3-4, Eusebius tells us that Origen, in his first book on the Gospel of St. Matthew, states that he has learned from tradition that the First Gospel was written by Matthew, who, having composed it in Hebrew, published it for the converts from Judaism. According to Eusebius (Church History III.24.6), Matthew preached first to the Hebrews and, when obliged to go to other countries, gave them his Gospel written in his native tongue. St. Jerome has repeatedly declared that Matthew wrote his Gospel in Hebrew ("Ad Damasum", xx; "Ad Hedib.", iv), but says that it is not known with certainty who translated it into Greek. St. Cyril of Jerusalem, St. Gregory of Nazianzus, St. Epiphanius, St. John Chrysostom, St. Augustine, etc., and all the commentators of the Middle Agesrepeat that Matthew wrote his Gospel in Hebrew. Erasmus was the first to express doubts on this subject: "It does not seem probable to me that Matthew wrote in Hebrew, since no one testifies that he has seen any trace of such a volume." This is not accurate, as St. Jerome uses Matthew's Hebrew text several times to solve difficulties of interpretation, which proves that he had it at hand .."



You can't learn Hebrew Greek or Aramaic and have any hope of comprehending it anywhere near natively unless you live and communicate in the countries that speak those languages. No one speaks, Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek the way they used to thousands of years ago either. I'm sure its the same with Arabic. There are people I know who've studied Hebrew and Greek and they went to university to learn the languages. Of course they understand the Bible better but God knows its not practical or possible for most people to learn the original languages the Bible was written in.

During the dark ages only those who could read and understand Latin read the Bible mostly. Latin was not the language that the local people spoke in Rome let alone the whole of Europe and other parts of the world. So most people never understood the Bible and the Catholic Church liked it that way. They liked people being ignorant so no one would question them about all the things they did that weren't biblical and they kept their absolute power intact. I'm sure you know the history of how Martin Luther came to pin his 95 theses on on the question of indulgences on the Castle Church door in Wittenberg. Being a Monk he could read and understand Latin and came to realise that what the Catholic Church was doing was contrary to what the Bible taught. Protestantism began. Once people started printing the Bible in their local dialect, people became enlightened and found Christ for themselves. Their knowledge increased and they started to abandon the Catholic Church in droves even during the worst periods of persecution. Many gave their lives to God and would rather die than accept the lies of the Roman Church.

God made provision for the Bible to be translated in many languages so people could find Him and get close to Him. It was always His plan that the whole world hear the good news of the gospel. Yes, some Bible versions have deliberate mistakes but Jesus' love still shines through somehow. If someone can find out about Jesus' love from the NIV version of the Bible for example, which has so many mistakes and verses missing, that is miraculous. In the dark ages some people didn't even have full Bibles but felt the love of God from the portions they had and couldn't wait to spread what little information they knew. That is because spiritual things are spiritually discerned. They were touched by the Holy Spirit of God. That is how powerful the Word of God is. I believe as our faith grows and we continue to grow in Christ, He leads us to the right Bible and to the right places to learn more about Him. God will give us the knowledge we need to know Him through the Holy spirit, if we seek Him in the Word. Matthew 7: 7-8, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

God always preserved His pure unadulterated word all through the ages even through the difficult years of papal supremacy where every kind of heresy had been introduced into the church (deliberately) including bringing in new Bible versions that buried the Word of truth beneath the rubbish of error and heresy. I like what one Pastor wrote, "God cannot expect obedience to His Word if that Word is not available to us. It is therefore essential that Scripture must have been preserved by Him in an uncorrupted form in order for us to comply with its demands." In all the ages there have always been a people of God who have His true word and they are never the majority. During the dark ages and reformation such people denied the supremacy of the Roman Church, rejected image worship as idolatry, and kept the commandments of God according to the Bible not the Roman Church. The Roman church tried to change the word of God but the Bible is the inspired, infallible Word of the living God, no one no matter how powerful they think they are, can completely stamp it out. God is more powerful. The true word of God will be with us till Jesus returns. Satan cannot and never will get rid of it. In fact Jesus says in the Bible in three gospels Matthew 24:35; Mark 13:31; Luke 21:33, “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away” God's Word is everlasting.

Whatever language the Quran or other Muslim texts were written in, they are not from the God of the Bible because they have a different message and they deny the divinity of Christ which the whole Bible is about.

Colossians 1:16, For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

John 1:1-3, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
 
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^^
Dude quotes a verse from surah 5 and calls it a Meccan surah.
Surah Al Maaida is a Madani surah.

He says that it is plagiarised from some Mishna...clearly hasn't done basic research....

Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.

and all from a guy who claims he is an ex moslem.


As for the hebrew gospels..
the hadith doesnt detail the man's scope of knowledge,, perhaps he was a genius who would understand hebrew well?
it's not that different to arab anyway.
 
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