Does Jesus/Yahweh love us or is he stalking us?

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If he idol worships whatever god or ideology he has accepted, the way Christians and Muslims do, --- true.

If that person is an esoteric ecumenist and perpetual seeker the way Gnostic Christians are, then that would be false as we are always ready to accept something better than the ideal we think we have found.

If a religion cannot evolve due to idol worship, that means it will either stagnate over time the way Christianity and Islam have, or it will eventually go extinct.

Regards
DL
So you conclude that if there were any kind of god, he/she must not have any fixed or distinct nature?
 





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So you conclude that if there were any kind of god, he/she must not have any fixed or distinct nature?
If there was a supernatural god, I would think that he was just one of a long line of gods. Turtle on turtle add infinitum, somewhat the way our myths have gods over gods, which is what Philip K Dick used in a lot of his writings. Think fractal math or matrix thinking repeating itself at different levels. Supernatural thinking is a never ending line of gods thinking.

If a supernatural god would exist, sure it would have a nature. To think it would resemble Yahweh, an androgynous god before Christianity took the feminine out of him somehow, is rather ridiculous.

Any god describe as Yahweh is in scriptures should be shot for his crimes against humanity, not adored.

Those who do adore that prick show how their religious beliefs have corrupted their moral sense.

Regards
DL
 





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That is not what your bible says but then, it sounds like you have never read it.

Ask nicely and I will get you the quote, if you have the couth to concede that I told the truth of that god decides who will get his grace and who he will withhold it from.

Can you take the truth in an honest way if it makes your god look like the prick he is? Even with genocide aside?

Regards
DL
Are you hung up on predestination-- ?
 





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Christianity has always been fascist. That is why they helped Hitler and his buddies.

Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical, right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy, which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

IOW. Place no one above me.

Note how Trump uses words like powerful and strong when speaking of Putin and Kim. His fascist heroes.

Regards
DL
Yes. People like to make a fuss about the occult aspects of some Nazis, but German Lutheranism paved the way for Nazism and is what made it possible.

Let’s not forget Mussolini and his good relationship with the Church.

Let’s not forget Franco and his support from the Church. Damn them.

Of course Islam is the same way.

D54B3543-2BF1-4429-87EB-59A7967FF958.jpeg

Wherever there is the God of Abraham there is Authoritarianism and horror.
 





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Well, did he have a choice?
Yes, He did
How do you reconcile the incompatible doctrines of free will and predetermination?
Yes, there is predetermination in regard to our existence,in the sense of nationality, who your parents are, etc(Acts 17:26) but when itcomes to salvation, there is no predetermination as to who was destined toheaven or hell because that undermines the concept of justice. Since you’llonly take Christ’s words, here He is pleading with the ancient Jewish nation.(Luke 13:34-35)

‘Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather yourchildren together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 35 Look, your house is left to you desolate. I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.”

Why would He make these pleas if He already destined them to reject Him? Was He just putting on a show? For which audience: the heavenly intelligences, earthly intelligences, And why?
 





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In a few decades we will probably create AI that is “superior” to us ( whatever that actually means ).
That is naturally impossible. If your creation can outsmart you, it stands to reason that you can outsmart God, a sort of Cosmic Singularity, but that is yet to be seen...because the singularity is a lieI said
A creator always leaves an imprint/ his fingerprints on his creation. Creatorship, in the truest sense of the word, is the ability to make something out of nothing. I can't go to a mine, strip it of minerals i can't make myself, then make a computer and call myself a creator of a computer. No one can create anything except God. This is best illustrated hypothetically when man stands up to God and tells Him that he doesn't need Him because he can also create living things (think Frankenstein, gene editing, cloning etc) and God responds to the challenge by asking him to go ahead and 'create' without 'using my dirt'.

Since no creation is greater than its creator, just by looking at man and his habitation, one can deduce that a Being much greater than or more superior to man, would have brought him into existence.

That's why the Singularity is a lie. Machines can never outsmart man, inotherwords man will beat a machine on any given day. So, inorder to make the singularity happen, man has to be deliberately dumbed down, his intellect fiercely assaulted, and forced to adapt to this new reality by merging with his own 'creation' to become trans-human. But that also signals his extinction
It’s for his entertainment and ego, why does he desire to be worshipped?
God doesn’t force anyone to worship Him. Worship is an expression of love and gratitude from creation to the Creator.
He could still let us have a choice but why does he not constantly show himself? At anytime he could come down and say hey guys! I’m God I created you, let me show you an example of my awesome and supreme power! So why the game? Why reveal Himself only to a group of desert nomads the rest of the world be damned?
Why doesn’t He show Himself? He already did! It seems as though you crave a Theophany, the question though is, if God revealed Himself to you, would you believe? Would you accept Him? You should use the events of the 1st Century as a lesson….How the Jewish nation treated Christ. Do you desire a manifestation inorder to boost your faith? God doesn’t need to dazzle you with His awesome power, He already left His imprints on His creation. Aren't dazzled by the natural world? There are two books that reveal God to us, Nature and the Sacred text. The complexities, mystery and beauty of the natural world stand as a testament to the Creator.

For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities – his eternal power and divine nature – have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. Romans 1:20
God is also by necessity the source of evil if he is the source of all things
God is the source of good. Evil finds its definition in good in the sense that it cannot be understood apart or outside the concept of goodness. Evil is the inversion or perversion of good. It isn’t a stand-alone concept. If there was a source/wellspring of evil, the source justifies its existence but evil is senseless. There is no legitimate reason for its existence. Besides, evil is inherently destructive. So, if ever there was a source of evil like God, the source eventually destroys itself. Just look at an evil man: he not only destroys all that is around him but he also ends up destroying himself. And we know that God cannot cease to be, so that is evidence enough that He isn’t the source of evil because He would as soon destroy us and Himself.

Even though God is the source of good, it is impossible for Him to be the source of evil because;

a)He cannot go against His own nature. He is good.

b)God is incapable of evil because there is no incentive for Him to be evil. He is the highest authority. There is no authority above Him whose throne He daydreams of usurping or marshalling a band of rebels to stage a revolt. If He needs money, icecream and cake, He can simply create those things. The reason we do evil is because we cannot gift ourselves what we want when we want it, so we pervert our will, strength, intellect etc to get what we want at the expense of others and ourselves.

Iam echoing what is written in Job (34:10-15)

‘So listen to me, you men of understanding.
Far be it from God to do evil,
from the Almighty to do wrong……It is unthinkable that God would do wrong,
that the Almighty would pervert justice.
13 Who appointed him over the earth?
Who put him in charge of the whole world?
14 If it were his intention
and he withdrew his spirit[a] and breath,
15 all humanity would perish together
and mankind would return to the dust.
 





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God doesn’t force anyone to worship Him. Worship is an expression of love and gratitude from creation to the Creator.
If the option is worship him or face eternal torment/darkness then you are forced to worship him. That’s not a choice it’s an ultimatum.


Why doesn’t He show Himself? He already did! It seems as though you crave a Theophany, the question though is, if God revealed Himself to you, would you believe? Would you accept Him? You should use the events of the 1st Century as a lesson….How the Jewish nation treated Christ. Do you desire a manifestation inorder to boost your faith? God doesn’t need to dazzle you with His awesome power, He already left His imprints on His creation. Aren't dazzled by the natural world? There are two books that reveal God to us, Nature and the Sacred text. The complexities, mystery and beauty of the natural world stand as a testament to the Creator.
Allegedly showed himself. Truth is there is very little evidence of a historical Jesus and zero evidence for anything in the Old Testament. I can say for sure that Socrates or Nefertiti existed but we can’t say the same for Moses.

There are perfectly natural explanations for the beauty natural world. Erosion for instance. Tectonic shifts and volcanic eruptions. None of this requires theism.


There is no legitimate reason for its existence. Besides, evil is inherently destructive. So, if ever there was a source of evil like God, the source eventually destroys itself. Just look at an evil man: he not only destroys all that is around him but he also ends up destroying himself.
What we define as evil comes from our selfish natures as animals and for some the inability to control impulses whether for pleasure or power, and some is just bad wiring and brain chemistry.

Are you sure about that? Tons of evil men die with no punishments with their families and wealth intact. Indeed some are viewed as historical heroes, you can find them in the Bible too.

A ) Are you sure about that? By every standard God has done evil things, the fact that believers dismiss it by saying “ He’s God” changes nothing. It’s unlikely there is an active creator, but if there is the Gnostics are right in calling it an evil demiurge who is below the true god.
 





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Allegedly showed himself. Truth is there is very little evidence of a historical Jesus and zero evidence for anything in the Old Testament. I can say for sure that Socrates or Nefertiti existed but we can’t say the same for Moses
If it was Socrates or Nerfertiti in the Bible and Moses wasn't, you'd still say the same thing....folklore
Tons of evil men die with no punishments with their families and wealth intact. Indeed some are viewed as historical heroes, you can find them in the Bible too.
An evil act scars the perpetrator, victim and those around him. Indeed, a man's own punishment is his guilty conscience.
A ) Are you sure about that?
Yes, iam sure that God is good.

I enjoy our exchanges btw. Thanks and I guess we should leave it here.
 





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Yes. People like to make a fuss about the occult aspects of some Nazis, but German Lutheranism paved the way for Nazism and is what made it possible.

Let’s not forget Mussolini and his good relationship with the Church.

Let’s not forget Franco and his support from the Church. Damn them.

Of course Islam is the same way.

View attachment 22251

Wherever there is the God of Abraham there is Authoritarianism and horror.
People forget how many people the Church helped murder over time.

Man we are a forgiving peoples eh. Too forgiving IMPOV.

Regards
DL
 





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there is no predetermination as to who was destined toheaven or hell because that undermines the concept of justice.
This is not true.
Your own bile tells you that God decides who he will give the grace to believe or have faith to and who he will reject and condemn for his own reasons.

If you have yet to read your bible and cannot do your research, let me know. I will get you the quotes.

I doubt that you care if your are wrong in any case.

Regards
DL
 





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Yes, iam sure that God is good.
The bottom line on the existence of hell would be the moral implications.
God killing instead of curing is evil.
God curing instead of killing is good.
If gods do the good, then there is no hell.
This is irrefutable
Such logic trails are how god’s attributes are found in many areas of thought.
Regards
DL
 





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People forget how many people the Church helped murder over time.

Man we are a forgiving peoples eh. Too forgiving IMPOV.

Regards
DL
Lest anyone tries to claim otherwise Brother Bishop

“We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.” -Adolf Hitler

“My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.” –Adolf Hitler

Damn them and their evil fascism.
 





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Lest anyone tries to claim otherwise Brother Bishop

“We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.” -Adolf Hitler

“My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.” –Adolf Hitler

Damn them and their evil fascism.
Good finds my friend.

I was wondering the other day about why Jews have been hated for so long.
I have concluded that it was because they were really good at banking and that the Vatican and Christianity wanted to take over that role and used our instinctive hate of those who control or hold our wealth.
Remember that historically, Jews were the first to finance wars for both sides.

Even during inquisitions, Jews with the cash were spared and used by political leaders.

I have yet to flesh out my theory and might never do the research to prove this but that is where my thinking has taken me.

Even Hitler kept a few Jews around so as to pick their brains, from what I understand.

Strange to think that, biologically speaking, the pressure against the Jews, over time, may be what has helped them grow mentally.

Regards
DL
 





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Good finds my friend.

I was wondering the other day about why Jews have been hated for so long.
I have concluded that it was because they were really good at banking and that the Vatican and Christianity wanted to take over that role and used our instinctive hate of those who control or hold our wealth.
Remember that historically, Jews were the first to finance wars for both sides.

Even during inquisitions, Jews with the cash were spared and used by political leaders.

I have yet to flesh out my theory and might never do the research to prove this but that is where my thinking has taken me.

Even Hitler kept a few Jews around so as to pick their brains, from what I understand.

Strange to think that, biologically speaking, the pressure against the Jews, over time, may be what has helped them grow mentally.

Regards
DL
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/business-38499883

It’s an interesting theory GCB. The Church for a long time opposed banking but at the same time wanted to utilize it. So they used the Templar’s for a while, or as you say let the Jews do it. It was really one of the few jobs they could do as it was seen as dirty. It’s an interesting loophole here

“It was the interpretation that interest could be charged to non-Israelites that would be used in the 14th century for Jews living within Christian societies in Europe to justify lending money for profit. As this conveniently side stepped the rules against usury in both Judaism and Christianity as the Jews could lend to the Christians as they are not Israelites and the Christians were not involved in the lending but were still free to take the loans.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_banking#Judaism

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_banking#Court_Jew

It does seem like a way for the rich to deflect anger against them towards “the Jews” and to be honest as we can see daily on this forum it works.
 





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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/business-38499883

It’s an interesting theory GCB. The Church for a long time opposed banking but at the same time wanted to utilize it. So they used the Templar’s for a while, or as you say let the Jews do it. It was really one of the few jobs they could do as it was seen as dirty. It’s an interesting loophole here

“It was the interpretation that interest could be charged to non-Israelites that would be used in the 14th century for Jews living within Christian societies in Europe to justify lending money for profit. As this conveniently side stepped the rules against usury in both Judaism and Christianity as the Jews could lend to the Christians as they are not Israelites and the Christians were not involved in the lending but were still free to take the loans.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_banking#Judaism

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_banking#Court_Jew

It does seem like a way for the rich to deflect anger against them towards “the Jews” and to be honest as we can see daily on this forum it works.
Thanks for putting some meat on the bone and bolstering my view.

It is strange how our brains make connections and analogies. My view came out of a situation concerning a drug pusher. He was at a party once where all was well when out of the blue, everyone turned on him and he had to run for the hills. A few days latter, all returned to (friendly) normalcy and people using him again.

Why exactly this brought the Jewish situation to mind, I cannot really say, but it is an almost perfect analogy of the love/hate relationship that Christians have had with the Jews as they abused and used them over time.

Regards
DL