Does Jesus qualify as an idol?

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#1
Does Jesus qualify as an idol?

In reading the various definitions of idol, I think Christians have turned Jesus into the type of idol that he railed against.

We all idol worship in some sense. If you can think analogically you will agree. Here is a poet that might help you do that. He has a good message but he himself ends in being an idol worshiper.


Commandment #3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.”

Christians put Jesus before Yahweh.

Commandment #4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above,

Christian churches are full of carved images.

Gnostic Christians also have an ideal, but we do not let ourselves be subsumed by our own creations and remain perpetual seekers of the best god/rules and laws to live by, as Jesus taught.

I see Christians and Muslims as idol worshipers.

Is Jesus a Christian and Muslim idol and are they idol worshipers as most theologians say?

Regards
DL
 





Lisa

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#2
John‬ ‭14:6‬ ‭
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.”
‭‭
 





Lisa

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#8
Is there a cross in your church or a likeness of Jesus?

If so, go read the commandment that says that your church and people are idol worshiping.

Regards
DL
No one knows what Jesus looks like, so how can there be a likeness?

I don’t have any crosses in my house or on my person.
 





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#9
No one knows what Jesus looks like, so how can there be a likeness?

I don’t have any crosses in my house or on my person.
Then you are less of an idol worshiper than your church.

Likeness is what that your commandment condemns. Not exactness.

You should try to understand what you read more.

You do know that there is the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. Right?

Regards
DL
 





Lisa

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#10
Then you are less of an idol worshiper than your church.

Likeness is what that your commandment condemns. Not exactness.

You should try to understand what you read more.

You do know that there is the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. Right?

Regards
DL
I know that there are pictures of “Jesus” that people actually think are Jesus.
 





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#11
Does Jesus qualify as an idol?

In reading the various definitions of idol, I think Christians have turned Jesus into the type of idol that he railed against.

We all idol worship in some sense. If you can think analogically you will agree. Here is a poet that might help you do that. He has a good message but he himself ends in being an idol worshiper.


Commandment #3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.”

Christians put Jesus before Yahweh.

Commandment #4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above,

Christian churches are full of carved images.

Gnostic Christians also have an ideal, but we do not let ourselves be subsumed by our own creations and remain perpetual seekers of the best god/rules and laws to live by, as Jesus taught.

I see Christians and Muslims as idol worshipers.

Is Jesus a Christian and Muslim idol and are they idol worshipers as most theologians say?

Regards
DL
The fact remains evident from the entirety of the Old Testament that trinitarians are both idolaters and pharisees.
 





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#15
That's one of the reasons I have rejected the Trinitarain doctrine.
??

You do not see Jesus as a savior or son of god?

How are you saved then, if you think god condemned you in the first place?

That condemnation is an outright lie but most if not all Christians have to buy into that lie.

Regards
DL
 





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#16
??

You do not see Jesus as a savior or son of god?

How are you saved then, if you think god condemned you in the first place?

That condemnation is an outright lie but most if not all Christians have to buy into that lie.

Regards
DL
I see Jesus as the Bible describes him. He is the Messiah (anointed one), the son of God (we all become sons of God when we follow the example of Christ, so that debunks the idea that being the "son of God" is synonymous with being God himself), and the figurative "lamb of God" who "takes away the sin of the world". But my understanding of "takes away the sin of the world" is not the typical Christian understanding.

I do not believe Jesus died specifically to take on the punishement of my personal sins or to save me from going to hell (eternal torment). The bible clearly says the wages of sin is death, not eternal torment. If Jesus really paid the price for my sin, then I would never have to die. Since we know eveyyone is going to die, clearly Jesus did pay the price for our personal sins.

The curse of sin is death. Jesus broke the curse and was resurrected. Jesus death and resurrection is our hope and security that we too can be freed from the curse of sin and will be resurrected in the ages to come.

What Jesus did by dying on the cross and being resurrected three days later, was break the curse or hold or power that sin has over us. We are all in bondage sin..i.e. within our own strength and ability none of us are capable of living sinless lives and because of that we wil all die. The soul that sins will die. (Ezekiel 18:20)

The bible clearly states that the suffering and pain we all observe in this temporal world is also the result of sin. That is the curse. Jesus came to break the curse. When we trust in the power of Jesus death and resurrection, we can be freed from the curse of sin, not only through the blessing of resurrection but also from the pain and suffering that sin causes us in the here and now. By identifying with Christ's selfless act, and dying to our own selfish desires and will (exactly what Jesus did when he prayed the night of his crucifixion "not my will but your will be done"), we are born again and set free from the power of sin in the here and now. The degree to which we die to our own desires and will is the degree to which we are set free from the pain and suffering that results from our sin. It's not just some future afterlife thing as most Chrsitians believe.

I think this answers you question about condemnation also. God does not condemn. God saves and according to the Bible it is God's will to save all men. If one believes that God is onmniscient and omnipotent, then one must logically conclude that all men will be saved eventually, since that is God's will.

When Christian's claim that our salvation is dependent on a personal choice of free will that each of us must make, they are elevating the personal will of the individual as more powerful than the will of God himself. This of course means that most Christians don't really believe that God is omnipotent then, as he isn't capable of bringing about his full will.
 





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#17
I see Jesus as the Bible describes him. He is the Messiah (anointed one), the son of God (we all become sons of God when we follow the example of Christ, so that debunks the idea that being the "son of God" is synonymous with being God himself), and the figurative "lamb of God" who "takes away the sin of the world". But my understanding of "takes away the sin of the world" is not the typical Christian understanding.

I do not believe Jesus died specifically to take on the punishement of my personal sins or to save me from going to hell (eternal torment). The bible clearly says the wages of sin is death, not eternal torment. If Jesus really paid the price for my sin, then I would never have to die. Since we know eveyyone is going to die, clearly Jesus did pay the price for our personal sins.

The curse of sin is death. Jesus broke the curse and was resurrected. Jesus death and resurrection is our hope and security that we too can be freed from the curse of sin and will be resurrected in the ages to come.

What Jesus did by dying on the cross and being resurrected three days later, was break the curse or hold or power that sin has over us. We are all in bondage sin..i.e. within our own strength and ability none of us are capable of living sinless lives and because of that we wil all die. The soul that sins will die. (Ezekiel 18:20)

The bible clearly states that the suffering and pain we all observe in this temporal world is also the result of sin. That is the curse. Jesus came to break the curse. When we trust in the power of Jesus death and resurrection, we can be freed from the curse of sin, not only through the blessing of resurrection but also from the pain and suffering that sin causes us in the here and now. By identifying with Christ's selfless act, and dying to our own selfish desires and will (exactly what Jesus did when he prayed the night of his crucifixion "not my will but your will be done"), we are born again and set free from the power of sin in the here and now. The degree to which we die to our own desires and will is the degree to which we are set free from the pain and suffering that results from our sin. It's not just some future afterlife thing as most Chrsitians believe.

I think this answers you question about condemnation also. God does not condemn. God saves and according to the Bible it is God's will to save all men. If one believes that God is onmniscient and omnipotent, then one must logically conclude that all men will be saved eventually, since that is God's will.

When Christian's claim that our salvation is dependent on a personal choice of free will that each of us must make, they are elevating the personal will of the individual as more powerful than the will of God himself. This of course means that most Christians don't really believe that God is omnipotent then, as he isn't capable of bringing about his full will.
I hope you don’t think I say this in malice but...

https://www.vigilantcitizenforums.c...rned-about-the-gospel-from-hacking-code.5107/
 





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#18
Malice? no. Criticism or disagreement? probably....there is a difference.

Are you implying that I am removing sections of the gospel and replacing them with my own ideas? If you are implying that, then by your analogy I should be getting syntax errors in my faith, no? However I have personally observed the opposite. When I believed and followed most of the tenants of the mainstream/orthodox gospel I encountered "syntax errors" quite often. Since rejecting many orthodox/mainstream doctrines I see more fruit from my faith than ever.

Instead of just implying you think I'm subtracting or adding from the true gospel, why not address the actual points you think I am incorrect about and lets discuss those in more detail.
 





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#19
Malice? no. Criticism or disagreement? probably....there is a difference.

Are you implying that I am removing sections of the gospel and replacing them with my own ideas? If you are implying that, then by your analogy I should be getting syntax errors in my faith, no? However I have personally observed the opposite. When I believed and followed most of the tenants of the mainstream/orthodox gospel I encountered "syntax errors" quite often. Since rejecting many orthodox/mainstream doctrines I see more fruit from my faith than ever.

Instead of just implying you think I'm subtracting or adding from the true gospel, why not address the actual points you think I am incorrect about and lets discuss those in more detail.
I believe you modify the doctrine of atonement at your own peril @Todd

In wanting to have a gospel that will save everyone, like it or not, the clear message of salvation is confused. I think I understand you well enough to know this desire comes from a good heart but I cannot find a meaningful scriptural case for UR that doesn’t require scissors.
 





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#20
I see Jesus as the Bible describes him. He is the Messiah (anointed one), the son of God (we all become sons of God when we follow the example of Christ, so that debunks the idea that being the "son of God" is synonymous with being God himself), and the figurative "lamb of God" who "takes away the sin of the world". But my understanding of "takes away the sin of the world" is not the typical Christian understanding.

I do not believe Jesus died specifically to take on the punishement of my personal sins or to save me from going to hell (eternal torment). The bible clearly says the wages of sin is death, not eternal torment. If Jesus really paid the price for my sin, then I would never have to die. Since we know eveyyone is going to die, clearly Jesus did pay the price for our personal sins.

The curse of sin is death. Jesus broke the curse and was resurrected. Jesus death and resurrection is our hope and security that we too can be freed from the curse of sin and will be resurrected in the ages to come.

What Jesus did by dying on the cross and being resurrected three days later, was break the curse or hold or power that sin has over us. We are all in bondage sin..i.e. within our own strength and ability none of us are capable of living sinless lives and because of that we wil all die. The soul that sins will die. (Ezekiel 18:20)

The bible clearly states that the suffering and pain we all observe in this temporal world is also the result of sin. That is the curse. Jesus came to break the curse. When we trust in the power of Jesus death and resurrection, we can be freed from the curse of sin, not only through the blessing of resurrection but also from the pain and suffering that sin causes us in the here and now. By identifying with Christ's selfless act, and dying to our own selfish desires and will (exactly what Jesus did when he prayed the night of his crucifixion "not my will but your will be done"), we are born again and set free from the power of sin in the here and now. The degree to which we die to our own desires and will is the degree to which we are set free from the pain and suffering that results from our sin. It's not just some future afterlife thing as most Chrsitians believe.

I think this answers you question about condemnation also. God does not condemn. God saves and according to the Bible it is God's will to save all men. If one believes that God is onmniscient and omnipotent, then one must logically conclude that all men will be saved eventually, since that is God's will.

When Christian's claim that our salvation is dependent on a personal choice of free will that each of us must make, they are elevating the personal will of the individual as more powerful than the will of God himself. This of course means that most Christians don't really believe that God is omnipotent then, as he isn't capable of bringing about his full will.
You seem to want to believe in the Gnostic Christian universalist god, where there is a heaven but no hell, and show a healthy disrespect for how Christians see god, yet have swallowed a lot of their supernatural garbage.

You also talk of our free will while ignoring that your bible says we do not have it.

Are you a Christian or just a wanabe Christian? What denomination are you trying to favor, if any
and why did you choose a homophobic and misogynous religion with a genocidal god?

Answering that will clear things up quite a bit. Please give it a try as the Christians you dislike all run from explaining their motivation.

Regards
DL