Does God Place Conditions on His Gift of Salvation?

phipps

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I've been asking Lisa and Phipps this same question several time already but it was always ignored. Seem like ONLY the bad Christians out there can lose salvation but never ever themself. Such "Holier than Thou" mentality.
You asked me recently if I believe I can lose my salvation in this post and I replied in this post that I believe I can. My exact words were, "Yes I believe I can lose my Salvation, anyone can, if they stop doing God's will, if they stop listening to the Holy Spirit. This is what the Bible says. Do you think my beliefs differ from what I post here?" So you have either forgotten or you are lying. Also have you read all my posts here? I have actually posted about my Christian journey briefly.

When I post truths about the Bible that doesn't mean I am saying I am holier than thou or perfect. That would make me a liar because the Bible says we are all sinners and if anyone says they aren't they are a liar. However we are to always preach the truth of God's Word no matter what. Even when we ourselves have done the sins we preach about. Its testimony to God's power working in our lives that we can come back to Christ and He can forgive us and we testify of it. So you are wrong about my mentality just as you are wrong about osas. We have to be obedient just as Christ was here on earth and He is our example. If He did it so can we as long as we rely on Him completely as He relied on His Father. Whether you agree with this truth or not won't change that its true.
 






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floss

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You asked me recently if I believe I can lose my salvation in this post and I replied in this post that I believe I can. My exact words were, "Yes I believe I can lose my Salvation, anyone can, if they stop doing God's will, if they stop listening to the Holy Spirit. This is what the Bible says. Do you think my beliefs differ from what I post here?" So you have either forgotten or you are lying. Also have you read all my posts here? I have actually posted about my Christian journey briefly.

When I post truths about the Bible that doesn't mean I am saying I am holier than thou or perfect. That would make me a liar because the Bible says we are all sinners and if anyone says they aren't they are a liar. However we are to always preach the truth of God's Word no matter what. Even when we ourselves have done the sins we preach about. Its testimony to God's power working in our lives that we can come back to Christ and He can forgive us and we testify of it. So you are wrong about my mentality just as you are wrong about osas. We have to be obedient just as Christ was here on earth and He is our example. If He did it so can we as long as we rely on Him completely as He relied on His Father. Whether you agree with this truth or not won't change that its true.
You're correct, you did answer the question. I must have scrolled past those long copy and paste material and missed your answer. Great now I know where you and Lisa stand on this, I will not be asking it anymore. Apologies.

Phipps - "Yes, I believe I can"
Lisa - "I hope I don't"

Both perfectly honest answer and I'm satisfied. However, the Bible proved your weak Gospel wrong again and will continue to do so.


“These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The scripture said you can know that you have eternal life. If you're truly born again, you can know this information. If today you know that you have eternal life, and 10 years later you lost it. Did you ever have eternal life? If you can lose something that is eternal then it was NEVER eternal to begin with. Any ideas around this?
 






Lisa

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You're correct, you did answer the question. I must have scrolled past those long copy and paste material and missed your answer. Great now I know where you and Lisa stand on this, I will not be asking it anymore. Apologies.

Phipps - "Yes, I believe I can"
Lisa - "I hope I don't"

Both perfectly honest answer and I'm satisfied. However, the Bible proved your weak Gospel wrong again and will continue to do so.


“These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The scripture said you can know that you have eternal life. If you're truly born again, you can know this information. If today you know that you have eternal life, and 10 years later you lost it. Did you ever have eternal life? If you can lose something that is eternal then it was NEVER eternal to begin with. Any ideas around this?
My answer was actually...
I hope I don’t but...
Hebrews‬ ‭3:12‬ ‭
Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.

Why did you leave out the verse...which also says you can fall away from the living God...are you in denial?
 






floss

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if you believe you can fall away and lose your salvation then you are NOT born again.

if you're still unsure whether you'll be in heaven or hell, the scripture said you can know for sure (which you chose to ignored)

You're here warning folks about a place with weeping and gnashing of teeth when you are not even sure if you're going to be there or not. According to your belief, there is a chance you might meet them there, am I right?

the Gospel you believed is weak. There is no progression in salvation, that is a false doctrine, period. I wonder how many people have you brought to Christ? Do you tell them they have eternal life now in Christ, BUT WAIT, they can lose it later?

People that believe salvation can be lost hardly bring anybody else to Christ, why? Because a bad tree (unsaved) cannot bring forth good fruit, only a good tree (saved) can. It make total sense, how are they going to preach a weak Gospel when they are not even sure about their own salvation.

ONLY A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN CAN "GIVE BIRTH" TO SOMEONE ELSE TO THE KINGDOM.

That's why Timothy was Paul's son in the faith. If you ain't born again, you cannot get anyone saved. Finally, if you don't know if you're born again or not. You're not.
 






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Nope still same topic. Repented clearly mean change one's mind. When someone get save by repentance, there's a change of belief. They goes from unbelief to believed, this is the moment they goes from unsave to saved. It does not mean they gotta repent of ALL their sins, that is impossible.

Nope, not only God know if Samson was save or not. If you're not so blinded of the true Gospel, you would know SAMSON WAS SAVED, the same for King Saul.

Repentance of your sins is a false Gospel that will damn you to hell. Jesus is the completed works of salvation. Maybe you should do less copy and paste of these damnable doctrines and get born again by putting all your faith in Jesus. Then the Holy Spirit wil guide you into all truth.
Jesus taught that repentance is needed:

Matthew
21:23 And when he was come into The Temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?
21:24 And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things.
21:25 The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?
21:26 But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet.
21:27 And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.
21:28 But what think ye? A [certain] man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
21:29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
21:30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I [go], sir: and went not.
21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of [his] father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the taxmen and the harlots go into The Kingdom of God before you.
21:32 For John came unto you in The Way of Righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the taxmen and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen [it], repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

It makes sense, if you believe then you would repent.

If you don't repent, then you either don't really believe, or, you are crazy.
 






Lisa

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if you believe you can fall away and lose your salvation then you are NOT born again.

if you're still unsure whether you'll be in heaven or hell, the scripture said you can know for sure (which you chose to ignored)

You're here warning folks about a place with weeping and gnashing of teeth when you are not even sure if you're going to be there or not. According to your belief, there is a chance you might meet them there, am I right?

the Gospel you believed is weak. There is no progression in salvation, that is a false doctrine, period. I wonder how many people have you brought to Christ? Do you tell them they have eternal life now in Christ, BUT WAIT, they can lose it later?

People that believe salvation can be lost hardly bring anybody else to Christ, why? Because a bad tree (unsaved) cannot bring forth good fruit, only a good tree (saved) can. It make total sense, how are they going to preach a weak Gospel when they are not even sure about their own salvation.

ONLY A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN CAN "GIVE BIRTH" TO SOMEONE ELSE TO THE KINGDOM.

That's why Timothy was Paul's son in the faith. If you ain't born again, you cannot get anyone saved. Finally, if you don't know if you're born again or not. You're not.
I am sure that I am saved...however..I also realize that with the scriptures I brought up..they are irrefutable in what they say...that some will fall away from the faith...so be on the alert. Which means to me, that it is possible for me to fall away..so I must be on the alert so that I am not deceived and fall away..I don’t see how that’s so hard to grasp. It doesn’t mean that I’m not saved..just alert.

There is a place that has weeping and gnashing of teeth..is there not? Should I tell people instead that they want to go there? I’m not sure your point?

The progression in salvation is to continue in the faith that you first heard..is it not?
Acts‬ ‭14:21-22‬ ‭
After they had preached the gospel to that city and had made many disciples, they returned to Lystra and to Iconium and to Antioch, strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying, “Through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.”
‭‭
Colossians‬ ‭1:22-23‬ ‭
Yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.​
‭‭
I think a born again believer would want people to understand that they are saved in faith..but they can also fall away from that faith..wasn’t there a reason the Bereans checked things out?

Acts‬ ‭17:11‬ ‭
Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.​
‭‭
 






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Maybe..but did the devil also insert..
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭4:1‬ ‭
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.​

I think being saved is more accurate because people can fall away from the faith..if you are being saved that makes more sense rather than you are saved. Scripture also doesn’t really support once saved always saved.
Agreed, this is confirmed also in:

1 Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the Day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

It's important that we read the whole Bible, not just some parts of it.
 






Lisa

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Agreed, this is confirmed also in:

1 Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the Day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

It's important that we read the whole Bible, not just some parts of it.
Well in your case...it would be more helpful to you to leave your cult, cult leader and just follow God...
 






phipps

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You're correct, you did answer the question. I must have scrolled past those long copy and paste material and missed your answer. Great now I know where you and Lisa stand on this, I will not be asking it anymore. Apologies.

Phipps - "Yes, I believe I can"
Lisa - "I hope I don't"

Both perfectly honest answer and I'm satisfied. However, the Bible proved your weak Gospel wrong again and will continue to do so.


“These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The scripture said you can know that you have eternal life. If you're truly born again, you can know this information. If today you know that you have eternal life, and 10 years later you lost it. Did you ever have eternal life? If you can lose something that is eternal then it was NEVER eternal to begin with. Any ideas around this?
So you were wrong about me being holier than thou weren't you?

The problem with you floss is you don't know how to read the Bible. The Bible talks about salvation all over. You have to examine and study all or almost all verses that talk about salvation to understand the subject. Some scripture gives more information about salvation than others. That is true about most subjects in the Bible. Once you understand this about scripture you will never study it the same way again. No matter what is taught in your church you should always examine and study scripture all scripture on the same subject to understand what God's message is. That is why I post a lot of scripture on a the particular we are studying so people can read and understand what the Bible says on the same subject in different parts of the Bible.

So yes we may know we have eternal life if we believe, accept and obey Christ and His will. I have shown you scripture after scripture that says that but you are picking and choosing what you want to believe to support your doctrine NOT to understand God's message to us on it. I will repost some of it here. Don't skip it because it doesn't agree with your doctrine. Examine and study all scripture that talks about salvation and you will see that its your doctrine that is the weak one and doesn't tell the truth about salvation.

Matthew 16:27, "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works."

Matthew 19:17, "So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 24:13, “He who endures to the end will be saved.”

Matthew 25:33-35,
“He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink.‘”

John 8:31, "Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.

John 8:51, "Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.

John 14:15,If you love Me, keep My commandments.

John 14:21, "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

John 14:23-24, "Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me."

John 15:10, "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love."

John 15:14, "You are My friends if you do whatever I command you."

Revelation 22:12-14,
And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.” Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city."

The Bible teaching of strict obedience to God in all things is so plain that children would understand and some do. We have to be obedient, do God's will and get baptised or we won't make it to heaven. Now I'm done debating the truth with you on this subject. Its up to you if you want to know all that God's Word says on this subject and others or if you are going to pick and choose scripture that aligns with your doctrine.
 






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Lisa

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So you were wrong weren't you about me being holier than thus weren't you? No one is holier than thou here.

The problem with you floss is you don't know how to read the Bible. The Bible talks about salvation all over. You have to examine and study all or almost all verses that talk about salvation to understand the subject. Some scripture gives more information about salvation than others. That is true about most subjects in the Bible. Once you understand this about scripture you will never draw conclusions until you have read a lot of scripture on the same subject. That is why I post a lot of scripture so people can read and understand what the Bible on the same subject in different parts of the Bible.

So yes we may know we have eternal life if we believe, accept and obey Christ and His will. I have shown you scripture after scripture that says that but you are picking and choosing what you want to believe. I will repost some of it here. Don't skip it because it doesn't agree with your doctrine. Examine and study all scripture that talks about salvation and you will see that its your doctrine that is weak one and doesn't tell the truth about salvation.

Matthew 16:27, "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works."

Matthew 19:17, "So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 24:13, “He who endures to the end will be saved.”

Matthew 25:33-35,
“He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink.‘”

John 8:31, "Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.

John 8:51, "Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.

John 14:15,If you love Me, keep My commandments.

John 14:21, "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

John 14:23-24, "Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me."

John 15:10, "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love."

John 15:14, "You are My friends if you do whatever I command you."

Revelation 22:12-14,
And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.” Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city."

This teaching is so plain a child would understand and some do. We have to be obedient, do God's will and get baptised or we won't make it to heaven. Now I'm done debating the truth with you on this subject. Its up to you if you wnat to know all that God's Word says on this subject and others or if you are going to pick and choose scripture that aligns with your doctrine.
You’re so close Phipps...just got to incorporate Hebrews 6:4-8. You fall away, you can’t come back.
 






phipps

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You’re so close Phipps...just got to incorporate Hebrews 6:4-8. You fall away, you can’t come back.
I'm not wrong and I showed you scripture that proves that. We can fall away but if we don't turn back while we can there is risk of not being able to, as our hearts become hardened to the Holy Spirit. David, Solomon, the parable of the prodigal son, Israel etc say so. Its the Sabbath where I am, so happy Sabbath. God bless.
 






Lisa

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I'm not wrong and I showed you scripture that proves that. We can fall away but if we don't turn back while we can there is risk of not being able to, as our hearts become hardened to the Holy Spirit. David, Solomon, the parable of the prodigal etc say so. Its the Sabbath where I am so happy Sabbath. God bless.
You talk about taking a look and studying the scriptures but what about..
Hebrews 6:4-8
For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
Won’t you study that verse too? Or do you want to only see what you want to see too?
 






phipps

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You talk about taking a look and studying the scriptures but what about..
Hebrews 6:4-8
For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
Won’t you study that verse too? Or do you want to only see what you want to see too?
Like I told you this scripture doesn't cancel out the others does it? That means it means something else because the Bible doesn't contradict itself. I have studied those verses. They are some of the verses that are controversial in the Bible and seem to contradict other scripture but really they don't. Are you also going to reject scripture about God giving us chances even after we fall away for these verses or are you going to find out how they harmonise with them?

Here is another example of Israel. It fell away but God gave the nation so many chances to turn back. He sent prophet after prophet to warn them of their apostasy, He punished them, He cut off most of their tribes that were scattered around the world, and Israel was left with just Judah and Benjamin and then in the book of Daniel God cut off a time for Israel where they were to change and to anoint the most Holy or they would stop being a chosen nation. (Daniel 9:24). They were not going to continue to be rebellious forever.

Well that's how God deals with us individually too as the cases of David, Solomon and others prove. We are given chances to turn back. By the time God cuts off from someone they have been prompted and plead with by the Holy Spirit but they chose to reject God. How God deals with each individual is different depending on their circumstances. I'm leaving now. Bye.
 






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Lisa

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Like I told you this scripture doesn't cancel out the others does it. That means it means something else because the Bible doesn't contradict itself. I have studied those verses. They are some of the verses that are controversial in the Bible and seem to contradict other scripture but really they don't. Are you also going to reject scripture about God giving us chances even after we fall away for these verses or are you going to find out how they harmonise with them?

Here is another example of Israel. It fell away but God gave the nation so many chances to turn back. He sent prophet after prophet to warn them of their apostasy, He punished them, He cut off most of their tribes tat were scattered around the world, and Israel was left with just Judah and Benjamin and then in the book of Daniel God cut off a time for Israel where they were to change and to anoint the most Holy or they would stop being a chosen nation. (Daniel 9:24). They were not going to continue to be rebellious forever.

Well that's how God deals with us individually too as the cases of David, Solomon and others prove. By the time God cuts off from someone they have been prompted and plead with by the Holy Spirit but they chose to reject God. How God deals with each individual is different depending on their circumstances. I'm leaving now. Bye.
It doesn’t cancel out the others but expands upon them. Does it say Christians will fall away..check! Does it say that when they do they can’t be renewed again...check! What’s so hard to figure out?
 






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Why should I see that video...I can’t stand trunews.

You follow a cult student.
It contains important information for you and any others of like mind. I would not recommend it otherwise. You need to know what they really believe in Judaism about you, behind your back, and that's what I want you to see. I thought of you while watching it.
 






Lisa

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It contains important information for you and any others of like mind. I would not recommend it otherwise. You need to know what they really believe in Judaism about you, behind your back, and that's what I want you to see. I thought of you while watching it.
I already know what the Jews think of Christians..that’s besides the point.
 






phipps

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phipps

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It doesn’t cancel out the others but expands upon them. Does it say Christians will fall away..check! Does it say that when they do they can’t be renewed again...check! What’s so hard to figure out?
Proverbs 24:16, "For a righteous man may fall seven times And rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity."
 






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