Does God Place Conditions on His Gift of Salvation?

Thunderian

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You've asked me this question before. Have you forgotten my response in which I used the Word of God or are you being annoying deliberately?
Forgive me, I had forgotten about that. However, since you're again making the false statement that a person needs to be baptized to be saved, I think I get a pass on asking the question again.

There are exceptions. Some people can't get baptised due to their situations. Some are ill, some like the thief on the cross could not get out their situation to be baptised. God knows our individual situations and looks on the heart too. He is not going to say to the thief on the cross that he can't get eternal life because he didn't get baptised. Jesus knew had the thief had the opportunity, he would have been baptised, that is why Jesus accepted him and assured him of his salvation. However most of us can get baptised and should, because its one of the conditions to being saved.
I'm sorry, but this is such utter garbage. If baptism is necessary for salvation, then it's necessary for everyone -- not just those who are able to get around to it. Does God also give special dispensations to those who can't find the time to accept Jesus Christ? Think about what you're saying, for a change.

The Bible says that salvation is obtained by faith in Jesus Christ, and not by any work. Baptism is clearly a work, and therefore, cannot be necessary for salvation. When you say baptism is necessary for salvation, but then say that, in special cases, it is not, based on no criteria other than "God understands the heart, and he'll make it all right", you stand the risk of veering into universalist doctrine.

There is one clear demand made by God for an unbeliever to be granted salvation: Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved. It doesn't say, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, get baptised, have a minister lay hands on you to receive the Spirit of God, endure to the end, and then thou shalt be saved."

Please don't ask me this question again.
Put me on ignore if you hate having to defend your mangling of the word of God, but I am enjoined by the Holy Spirit inside me to call you out on your lies, and I will follow his urging, and not yours.
 






Lisa

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Jesus made it super clear in John6, those who walked away NEVER believe from the beginning. The DISCIPLES of Christ never believe at all...hmm what does that tell ya?
That some people aren’t believers..ok. But that’s not what 1 Timothy 4:1 says.
 






phipps

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@Thunderian

Forgive me, I had forgotten about that. However, since you're again making the false statement that a person needs to be baptized to be saved, I think I get a pass on asking the question again.
If I'm making a false statement then that means so is Jesus who I quoted above. You're calling Him a liar because He said we have to be baptised to be saved. Below there will be more scripture on baptism. If you'd forgotten you asked me the question then that's okay.

I'm sorry, but this is such utter garbage. If baptism is necessary for salvation, then it's necessary for everyone -- not just those who are able to get around to it. Does God also give special dispensations to those who can't find the time to accept Jesus Christ? Think about what you're saying, for a change.
You are the one who is posting utter garbage here If you think one example of someone not getting baptised in the Bible because they were hanging on a cross and could not get down from it, exempts you from baptism. You are also calling Jesus a liar too who made it clear we have to be baptised to be saved and He showed us how.

The Bible says that salvation is obtained by faith in Jesus Christ, and not by any work. Baptism is clearly a work, and therefore, cannot be necessary for salvation. When you say baptism is necessary for salvation, but then say that, in special cases, it is not, based on no criteria other than "God understands the heart, and he'll make it all right", you stand the risk of veering into universalist doctrine.
Salvation is a process. It doesn't stop at just accepting Him.

Matthew 28:18-20, "And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen."

John 4:1-3, "Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples), He left Judea and departed again to Galilee."

Acts 2:38, "Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Christ Is Preached to an Ethiopian Acts 8:26-40

Now an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip, saying, “Arise and go toward the south along the road which goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” This is desert. So he arose and went. And behold, a man of Ethiopia, a eunuch of great authority under Candace the queen of the Ethiopians, who had charge of all her treasury, and had come to Jerusalem to worship, was returning. And sitting in his chariot, he was reading Isaiah the prophet. Then the Spirit said to Philip, “Go near and overtake this chariot.” So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah, and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?” And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he asked Philip to come up and sit with him. The place in the Scripture which he read was this:

“He was led as a sheep to the slaughter;
And as a lamb before its shearer is silent,
So He opened not His mouth.
In His humiliation His justice was taken away,
And who will declare His generation?
For His life is taken from the earth.”

So the eunuch answered Philip and said, “I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?” Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing. But Philip was found at Azotus. And passing through, he preached in all the cities till he came to Caesarea.

Acts 18:8, "Then Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his household. And many of the Corinthians, hearing, believed and were baptized."

Acts 22:16, "And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

1 Peter 3:21,
"There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

Whenever someone repented and believed in Christ, they got baptised but according to you its unnecessary. That is not according to God's Word is it? I will believe God over you. He is the one who saved us and told us the conditions after all!

Edit: More verses about baptism. Matthew 3:16-17, John 3:23, Romans 6:3-6, 1 Corinthians 12:12-14, 20, 27, Galatians 3:27, Colossians 2:12. For something unnecessary the Bible says quite a lot about it.

You clearly don't understand how faith and works are connected because you don't want to. If baptism is a work then why did Jesus get baptised? Do you think anything Jesus did was a waste of time? He even told the disciples to continue baptising people in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Why?

There is one clear demand made by God for an unbeliever to be granted salvation: Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved. It doesn't say, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, get baptised, have a minister lay hands on you to receive the Spirit of God, endure to the end, and then thou shalt be saved."
Belief is not enough. Its important but there are conditions to be saved as the Bible clearly says. Or we won't be different from the demons that believe too will we? If you’ve studied your Bible much at all, you probably realise that we must look at a number of verses scattered throughout the Bible to get the whole picture on a subject. We must look at all the Bible says on a subject to come to a proper understanding of it. So you're wrong.

Put me on ignore if you hate having to defend your mangling of the word of God, but I am enjoined by the Holy Spirit inside me to call you out on your lies, and I will follow his urging, and not yours.
I defend the truth of God's Word (and its unpopular because it contradicts many doctrines taught in Christianity that are false) and many times on here you defend your doctrine not God's Word.

That is not the Holy Spirit Thunderian. You always do this. You always reject the plain teaching of the Bible to defend and justify your false doctrines. I have shown you scripture upon scripture above about baptism, so its up to you now whether you will accept it or reject it. Whether you will follow Christ's example or not. The thief on the cross not getting baptised does not cancel out all those that got and do get baptised including Jesus and everything that the Bible says about it.

And I might put you on ignore permanently because it gets tedious locking horns with you over the plain word of God all the time.
 






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Lisa

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You got that right, those walk away/ fall away aren't believer
I also said that some will fall away from the faith. Those are believers..otherwise..what faith are we talking about here?
 






phipps

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Nope still same topic. Repented clearly mean change one's mind. When someone get save by repentance, there's a change of belief. They goes from unbelief to believed, this is the moment they goes from unsave to saved. It does not mean they gotta repent of ALL their sins, that is impossible.

Nope, not only God know if Samson was save or not. If you're not so blinded of the true Gospel, you would know SAMSON WAS SAVED, the same for King Saul.

Repentance of your sins is a false Gospel that will damn you to hell. Jesus is the completed works of salvation. Maybe you should do less copy and paste of these damnable doctrines and get born again by putting all your faith in Jesus. Then the Holy Spirit wil guide you into all truth.
I hadn't seen this response.

Nope still same topic. Repented clearly mean change one's mind. When someone get save by repentance, there's a change of belief.
No, its not the same topic. God regretting creating man is not the same as us repenting and turning away from sin.

Repentance is a genuine sorrow for sin. Its for people who are so fed up of their sin ridden lives and want to turn away from sin. Repentance leads to people turning away from sin and realising that God can cleanse them from their sin.

They goes from unbelief to believed, this is the moment they goes from unsave to saved.
When we first come to Christ we have a conversion of heart. This is a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit. Our attitude towards God changes. Instead of running away from God, we turn to Him. The Holy Spirit renews our minds and creates new understandings and interests that were not there before. We begin to experience a new desire to know God. It’s the beginning of our spiritual life. Then we begin to realise just how sinful we are. We realise we've got to turn away from our lives of sin. This is something we receive from Christ. We come to Christ and then He does the job of cleansing us because we cannot turn away from sin in our own strength. This does not happen overnight.

It does not mean they gotta repent of ALL their sins, that is impossible.
They do have to repent all their sin. Otherwise that is not genuine repentance is it? Part of repentance is confession. We all have to confess all our sin not just some of them. “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9). Then Jesus will not only forgive us our sins but He will deliver us from the power of sin.

Nope, not only God know if Samson was save or not. If you're not so blinded of the true Gospel, you would know SAMSON WAS SAVED, the same for King Saul.
I don't know if Samson is saved but Judges 16:28 says, "Then Samson called to the Lord, saying, “O Lord God, remember me, I pray! Strengthen me, I pray, just this once, O God, that I may with one blow take vengeance on the Philistines for my two eyes!” I don't know if this qualifies as repentance but it shows that he turned to God for his strength at the very end. I cannot tell from that whether Samson is saved but Paul suggests he is in Hebrews. It would be good to meet Samson in heaven.

However
the Bible clearly shows Saul never repented before he died. In fact instead of repenting Saul went to a medium whom God banned, so whoever appeared to him as Samuel's ghost (probably the devil himself or a demon) told him, "For the Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, David. Because you did not obey the voice of the Lord nor execute His fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore the Lord has done this thing to you this day. Moreover the Lord will also deliver Israel with you into the hand of the Philistines. And tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The Lord will also deliver the army of Israel into the hand of the Philistines” (I Samuel 28:17-19).

Even the demon knew Saul was doomed. Samuel was dead and the Bible is clear the dead cannot do anything again under the sun. If Saul had repented, he would not have gone to a medium would he? And he died the next day (by suicide) just as he was told he was going to and he never repented.

Saul's case is actually very sad because he was a man of God. God chose him to be first king of Israel but he disobeyed Him and God cut off which is the worst thing that can happen to anyone. 1 Samuel 28:6, “the LORD did not answer him, either by dreams or by Urim or by the prophets.” Saul grieved the Holy Spirit. He committed the unpardonable sin.

Repentance of your sins is a false Gospel that will damn you to hell. Jesus is the completed works of salvation.
If repentance of sin is a false gospel then the Bible is teaching a false gospel. I am merely explaining to you what is written in the Bible. You have chosen to reject God's Word in favour of your false doctrine.

Maybe you should do less copy and paste of these damnable doctrines and get born again by putting all your faith in Jesus. Then the Holy Spirit wil guide you into all truth.
You think because I paste and copy I don't know the subjects? Well I do. I actually post subjects I've studied before hand. Some for years. Out of the two of us its you who hasn't really known what you re talking about. I do put my faith in Christ that is why I don't just follow doctrines. I always want to tell the truth of the Bible which sadly you're not on this topic. The Holy Spirit did guide me to this truth that is why I know I'm telling you the truth. I am going to google verses about repentance of those who fell away from the faith as 2 Peter 2:15 says the can, "They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam … who loved the wages of unrighteousness" from the Bible and I'm going to post them in the next comment to you. I want you to point me to any falseness I told you based on those verses. I like to be thorough you see.
 






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TokiEl

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Repentance of your sins is a false Gospel that will damn you to hell.
Look floss.

Why don't you shut the fuk up ?


Luke 13 1At that time some of those present told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2To this He replied, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered this fate? 3No, I tell you. But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

Luke 24 44Jesus said to them, “These are the words I spoke to you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about Me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms.” 45Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures. 46And He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and in His name repentance and forgiveness of sins will be proclaimed to all nations, beginning in Jerusalem.

Acts 17 30Although God overlooked the ignorance of earlier times, He now commands all men everywhere to repent.
 






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floss

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I also said that some will fall away from the faith. Those are believers..otherwise..what faith are we talking about here?
1. Is there a different between walking away and falling away?
2. Why did JESUS said those who walked away was never a believer?
3. Your belief contradicted what Jesus said about those who walked away. It must be your misconception or misinterpretation of the scriptures regarding falling away and partaker of the Holy Spirit.

Why is it so difficult to understand those who fall away/ walk away NEVER believe? That's exactly what Jesus said but you believe otherwise. They don't believe, they leave. It's that simple.
 






floss

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Look floss.

Why don't you shut the fuk up ?


Luke 13 1At that time some of those present told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2To this He replied, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered this fate? 3No, I tell you. But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

Luke 24 44Jesus said to them, “These are the words I spoke to you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about Me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms.” 45Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures. 46And He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and in His name repentance and forgiveness of sins will be proclaimed to all nations, beginning in Jerusalem.
yes thy holy one
 






phipps

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@floss

Here are the verses.

Ezekiel 18:21, “If a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.”

Ezekiel 18:31, "Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel?"

Jeremiah 3:22, “Return, you backsliding children, And I will heal your backslidings.”

2 Peter 3:9, "he Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance."

Revelation 2:4-5, "Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent."
 






TokiEl

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yes thy holy one
It's for your own good that you listen and learn truths.

Salvation is removal of sins made possible by repentance that is regret of past sins.

God accepts this repentance of sins only because of Jesus sacrifice for sins.
 






phipps

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Look floss.


Luke 13 1At that time some of those present told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2To this He replied, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered this fate? 3No, I tell you. But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

Luke 24 44Jesus said to them, “These are the words I spoke to you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about Me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms.” 45Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures. 46And He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and in His name repentance and forgiveness of sins will be proclaimed to all nations, beginning in Jerusalem.

Acts 17 30Although God overlooked the ignorance of earlier times, He now commands all men everywhere to repent.
I understand the point you're making but can you please not swear? As Christians we ought not to use such language. Please edit your post and take out the swear word. Thank you.
 






floss

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They do have to repent all their sin.
If this is what you believe will save you, you aren't going to make it.

I take it, you and Tokio are update-to-date with all your sins repented, am I correct? You might be able to fool me but you are not fooling God.
 






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TokiEl

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If this is what you believe will save you, you aren't going to make it.

I take it, you and Tokio are all update-to-date with all your sins repented, am I correct? You might be able to fool me but you are not fooling God.
What have you lost control over your sins ?
 






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Salvation is not a progress, it was never meant to be. You get saved once you repented. You were an unbeliever now you believed, you were unsave now you're saved. There are NOTHING in between.
Another further flaw in the Christian belief system. If what you said was true, then according to your very same theology, there would be no need for God to sacrifice himself because it is merely a click of the fingers.
 






TokiEl

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There are sins that lead to death and sins that do not.

Do you know the difference ?
 






floss

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@floss

Ezekiel 18:21, “If a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.”
What this has to do with repentance of sins to obtain salvation? Sins will lead to death. People died every day because of sins...what's the problem here?
Ezekiel 18:31, "Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel?"
Again, what this has got to do with repentance of sins to obtain salvation?
Jeremiah 3:22, “Return, you backsliding children, And I will heal your backslidings.”
I'm getting confuse...salvation?
2 Peter 3:9, "he Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance."
again, you do not have the correct understanding of repentance.
Revelation 2:4-5, "Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent."
okay...God want you to get back to where you left... what's the problem here?

Once again you failed at providing anything remotely to "you shall lose your salvation if all your sins are not repented"
 






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floss

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Another further flaw in the Christian belief system. If what you said was true, then according to your very same theology, there would be no need for God to sacrifice himself because it is merely a click of the fingers.
Why wouldn't the sacrifice needed? How would you go about believing God died for you if there were no sacrifice? The Gospel was that powerful because GOD does ALL the hard work which was impossible for men. All He need you to do is TRUST Him.
 






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TokiEl

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Once again you failed at providing anything remotely to "you shall lose your salvation if all your sins are not repented"
Salvation is removal of sins and sins are removed by repentance.
 






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