Do you believe secular Jewish state of Israel is prophesied in the Bible?

Lisa

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Your reality is this matrix. That’s where you get your basis of reality. When I pop that bubble like I’ve done here you don’t know what to do. So you lash out and start repeating yourself over and over because you can’t even show why you believe in your version of “reality”.
Ya, I’ve been repeating myself thinking you’d understand what I’m saying but you obviously can’t. I haven’t been lashing out, just trying to talk to you. But your right, I don’t know how to talk to someone who doesn’t know where Egypt is and I am not going to make an effort to show you because I already know that that convo is gonna go nowhere.
 





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Ya, I’ve been repeating myself
Because you don't haven't ever studied. You just regurgitate what you've been fed your whole life which is why you can't explain with support about WHY you believe anything.

But your right,
Yep ;)

I don’t know how to talk to someone who doesn’t know where Egypt is
Well if you're not repeating yourself to avoid talking about the discrepancies between what the Bible says and you say, you're misrepresenting my position.

I know where Israel is just as I know where Egypt is. I'm saying the places they are today do not match the places they were historically. And furthermore the places they're meant to represent were not referred to as "Israel" or "Egypt". But you're not mentally equipped to have this convo
 





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Because you don't haven't ever studied. You just regurgitate what you've been fed your whole life which is why you can't explain with support about WHY you believe anything.
No I’ve been repeating myself because of you.
You have no idea what I’ve been told or studied in my life :rolleyes:

Well if you're not repeating yourself to avoid talking about the discrepancies between what the Bible says and you say, you're misrepresenting my position.
No, you’ve been doing that to me.

I know where Israel is just as I know where Egypt is
Lol! Are ya sure? Earlier they were in America.

I'm saying the places they are today do not match the places they were historically.
You’re so full of it ya know that? I guess if that helps you believe the foolishness you believe...

And furthermore the places they're meant to represent were not referred to as "Israel" or "Egypt".
No, they were meant to represent the actual places. Especially when Abraham was given land by God in an everlasting covenant.

But you're not mentally equipped to have this convo
First you say you don’t know where Egypt is now you say you do...who’s not mentally equipped to have the convo?
 





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No I’ve been repeating myself because of you.
You have no idea what I’ve been told or studied in my life :rolleyes:
I go by what you say. You regurgitate the same stuff I was taught as a child with the difference being that I actually went out and learned for myself. You're probably twice my age and never have. And most likely, sadly, never will.
Lol! Are ya sure? Earlier they were in America.
The promised land is in America just as the land the "Israelites" were held captive is in the Americas. This promised land is not and was not called "Israel"(nor were the people) jyst as the land of bondage they were in was not called "Egypt".

Just like you people felt they could just change what these were called and the things God said as they deemed fit.

You’re so full of it ya know that? I guess if that helps you believe the foolishness you believe...
You've kept this type of passive aggressive convo going for days but when I asked you to provide support for your beliefs,nothing. The only one full of it is you...

No, they were meant to represent the actual places. Especially when Abraham was given land by God in an everlasting covenant.
Again, prove it. You say that's the land promised to Abraham, then where's the proof?

who’s not mentally equipped to have the convo?
Still you... Funny how it's a waste of time to verify the truth but not throw passive aggressive digs post after post.
 





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I go by what you say. You regurgitate the same stuff I was taught as a child with the difference being that I actually went out and learned for myself. You're probably twice my age and never have. And most likely, sadly, never will.


The promised land is in America just as the land the "Israelites" were held captive is in the Americas. This promised land is not and was not called "Israel"(nor were the people) jyst as the land of bondage they were in was not called "Egypt".

Just like you people felt they could just change what these were called and the things God said as they deemed fit.



You've kept this type of passive aggressive convo going for days but when I asked you to provide support for your beliefs,nothing. The only one full of it is you...



Again, prove it. You say that's the land promised to Abraham, then where's the proof?


Still you... Funny how it's a waste of time to verify the truth but not throw passive aggressive digs post after post.

I've skimmed this conversation so I won't get into technicalities here. Just from reading the both of you interacting, it's clearly evident that you are reacting emotionally to this whole subject. Believe it or not, not everything has to make perfect sense to you. God has no obligation to explain himself to us.

I believe somewhere in this thread you pointed out that Egypt wasn't called Egypt back then. That's false, it is commonly documented throughout history books that Egypt existed and was even named so.

I think you have this huge desire to think that the Bible is incorrect so Lisa is correct in saying that arguing with you is pointless since there is no fiber of your being that would be open to even trying to understand where she coming from rationally.

The unfortunate thing about this thread is that you aren't even making any points that furthers your argument (What is your argument?). I'm sorry that you don't believe in a loving God and feel like we are all victims of his unjust wrath. If you truly are willing to learn the truth, please do some research outside of this website. Better yet, grab a Bible and start challenging it. Challenge it with any questions you have and then read it to see what it says. Prove yourself right or wrong.
 





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I've skimmed this conversation so I won't get into technicalities here. Just from reading the both of you interacting, it's clearly evident that you are reacting emotionally to this whole subject. Believe it or not, not everything has to make perfect sense to you. God has no obligation to explain himself to us.
Hey buddy, I'm going to ignore that "reacting emotionally" stuff and just ask you point out where I was wrong AND bring supporting information. That's literally all I asked all thread. If you can't or aren't willing to do that then why even respond?

Btw, Moses said what he was given from God was not too difficult to understand.

I believe somewhere in this thread you pointed out that Egypt wasn't called Egypt back then. That's false, it is commonly documented throughout history books that Egypt existed and was even named so.
Egypt derives from a Greek word. You know that right?

I think you have this huge desire to think that the Bible is incorrect so Lisa is correct in saying that arguing with you is pointless since there is no fiber of your being that would be open to even trying to understand where she coming from rationally.
Nope. I believe that YOUR interpretation is incorrect. Also, how come I have to be open to her but not her to me? I asked her to provide support for what she was saying and she couldn't. Can you?

If you and her are above responding then why are y'all even here? A good 5 or 10 posts ago she said she was above bringing proof. But that didn't stop her from throwing passive aggressive digs for post after post. So if she can do that why can't she simply support her beliefs?

So let's cut out all the side stuff and get to the topic. How am I wrong and what support do you have for me being wrong?
The unfortunate thing about this thread is that you aren't even making any points that furthers your argument (What is your argument?). I'm sorry that you don't believe in a loving God and feel like we are all victims of his unjust wrath. If you truly are willing to learn the truth, please do some research outside of this website. Better yet, grab a Bible and start challenging it. Challenge it with any questions you have and then read it to see what it says. Prove yourself right or wrong.
Read the title of the thread. My argument is that no, secular Israel is not prophesied in the Bible. Being that its in the wrong place and being inhabited by the wrong people. I've since provided why I believe this way all thread. And what I provided included history AND bible verses. She didn't do that. I doubt you're going to do it either but the doors open.

Also don't be sorry that I don't believe in your god. That's a blessing from where I stand.
 





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There’s no need to move on. You finally told the truth. It’s not happening and hasn’t happened. Appreciate the honesty



Of course I can because it is. Till the things God said would happen happen in the order He said it would its null and void
.


Well one, Egypt isn't the name of the biblical place Israel was held captive in. And two, the land of bondage the Israelites were held captive in was somewhere in America. Which is why “Egyptian” artifacts were found in Illinois and the Grand Canyon.

Which brings up... Do you know where the cities of gold were found? The Americas. Do you know where people came, conquered, enslaved and shipped out people? The Americas. Do you know where Columbus brought a Hebrew interpreter with him? The Americas.

And you saying you’re not going all out is like you saying you’re not going to the moon. It’s not because you don’t want to but because you cant


If I said slavery and walked off you'd have a point. But since I said conquered then sent elsewhere on ships to be enslaved/oppressed for 400 years that narrows it down to one group of people. It's bigger than just "slavery" just as this convo is bigger than you...

Oh and dum diversas says that they're in PERPETUAL servitude. And then there’s the 14th (or 13th) amendment which allows for slavery when it comes to prisons which are built to be FOR PROFIT. In other words, slavery didn’t go anywhere but behind the scenes in places that go over your head.


*Einstein explains physics to 3 year old*

3 year old: "You're confusing"

;)


Your reality is this matrix. That’s where you get your basis of reality. When I pop that bubble like I’ve done here you don’t know what to do. So you lash out and start repeating yourself over and over because you can’t even show why you believe in your version of “reality”.
Just out of curiosity of your viewpoint, where in the Americas was the biblical Jerusalem?
 





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Hey buddy, I'm going to ignore that "reacting emotionally" stuff and just ask you point out where I was wrong AND bring supporting information. That's literally all I asked all thread. If you can't or aren't willing to do that then why even respond?
Feel free to ignore anything you want. Why respond to something when you have no good answer? I'm down to provide supporting information. I was on my phone before and couldn't be bothered to type anything out. I'm all for having an intellectual discussion.


Btw, Moses said what he was given from God was not too difficult to understand.
Okay I'm not sure what you're getting at by this.



Egypt derives from a Greek word. You know that right?
Yep the word Egypt is latin which is dervied from Greek. The hebrew bible (as it was originally written) calls Egypt by the name of Mizraim. We use Egypt today so we know what land we're talking about.



Nope. I believe that YOUR interpretation is incorrect. Also, how come I have to be open to her but not her to me? I asked her to provide support for what she was saying and she couldn't. Can you?

If you and her are above responding then why are y'all even here? A good 5 or 10 posts ago she said she was above bringing proof. But that didn't stop her from throwing passive aggressive digs for post after post. So if she can do that why can't she simply support her beliefs?
I'm not really going to play dad here other than to say "Because I said so. :)". I think we all should supply support for our arguments otherwise nothing gets accomplished.

So let's cut out all the side stuff and get to the topic. How am I wrong and what support do you have for me being wrong?

Read the title of the thread. My argument is that no, secular Israel is not prophesied in the Bible. Being that its in the wrong place and being inhabited by the wrong people. I've since provided why I believe this way all thread. And what I provided included history AND bible verses. She didn't do that. I doubt you're going to do it either but the doors open.

Also don't be sorry that I don't believe in your god. That's a blessing from where I stand.
To answer the question of the thread, I do believe that Isreal today IS prophisied about in the bible. The reason I believe that is that the bible states that Isreal will have to be reborn before the coming of Christ and 70 years ago it was. It being secular has little to nothing to do with anything. In fact, I implore you to visit Isreal and see how unsecular it really is today. I've been there multiple times and can say from first hand experience that there are many Jews there still practicing their faith and awaiting their old testament messiah.

Follow up question though, what do you mean by it being in the wrong place? Please provide support for that claim.

Also, you may see it as a blessing to not believe in my God but obviously to me it isn't. Since I do believe that I am correct in believing in my God, then I can't help but feel sadness that you are not able to see the truth as wonderful as it is.
 





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Feel free to ignore anything you want. Why respond to something when you have no good answer? I'm down to provide supporting information. I was on my phone before and couldn't be bothered to type anything out. I'm all for having an intellectual discussion.
It's the side stuff I like to ignore. If you're here to have a discussion about the topic and you're willing to show WHY you believe what you do or why you disagree with what I believe, while I may disagree, but I won't ignore it.


Okay I'm not sure what you're getting at by this.
You said not everything has to make perfect sense and I said that Moses said that what he was given was not hard to grasp. What you believe is hard to grasp and not in a "physics is hard to grasp" type of way but in a "2+2 is not equaling 4" type of way


Yep the word Egypt is latin which is dervied from Greek. The hebrew bible (as it was originally written) calls Egypt by the name of Mizraim. We use Egypt today so we know what land we're talking about.
Ok. So when I say "Egypt wasn't called Egypt during biblical times", was I right or wrong?

I'm not really going to play dad here other than to say "Because I said so. :)". I think we all should supply support for our arguments otherwise nothing gets accomplished.
I'm not asking you to answer for her. Just not come in the thread with the same passive aggressive energy she did.

To answer the question of the thread, I do believe that Isreal today IS prophisied about in the bible. The reason I believe that is that the bible states that Isreal will have to be reborn before the coming of Christ and 70 years ago it was. It being secular has little to nothing to do with anything. In fact, I implore you to visit Isreal and see how unsecular it really is today. I've been there multiple times and can say from first hand experience that there are many Jews there still practicing their faith and awaiting their old testament messiah.
I'll just post the same verses I posted to her to you.

Ezekiel 20
I will bring you from the nations and gather you from the countries where you have been scattered—with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm and with outpoured wrath. 35 I will bring you into the wilderness of the nations and there, face to face, I will execute judgment upon you. 36 As I judged your ancestors in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so I will judge you, declares the Sovereign Lord. 37 I will take note of you as you pass under my rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant. 38 I will purge you of those who revolt and rebel against me. Although I will bring them out of the land where they are living, yet they will not enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Lord

rebels will not enter they land of Israel. Yet we look up today and see freemasonry monuments, gay parades, oppression of Palestinians and foreigners, them hiding behind human nations etc... There's no reconciling the two.

Follow up question though, what do you mean by it being in the wrong place? Please provide support for that claim.
People after Colombus time switchedthe map around so to move places that were here to the other side of the world. Look up how much gold was found in this part of the world then tell me what resources have been found in the Middle East. Go look at places like the Amazon rainforest or a mountain like Mount Roraima then compare it to the Middle East. The land of milk and honey isn't a desert.

Why did Colombus say he was going to conquer the holy land before leaving for America? Why in the same year he "found" America did Spain exile "Jews" from their country (1492 Alhambra Decree)? The SAME country that sent Colombus on his voyage? Why did the "Jews" want to establish a homeland in Uganda before choosing Palestine? I'm not expecting a essay to answer the questions or everything I'm saying, but these are some of things that lead me to my conclusion.

Also, you may see it as a blessing to not believe in my God but obviously to me it isn't. Since I do believe that I am correct in believing in my God, then I can't help but feel sadness that you are not able to see the truth as wonderful as it is.
The Torah condemns your religion which is why I reject it.
 





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@KoncreteMind

I've read all your answers here but you lost me when you said

You can't find two other nations that have been conquered and transported on ships to be enslaved/oppressed for 400+ years like black people have. The reason for that is because ONLY the descendants of Israel would punished in that manner.
I guess you talked about African Americans as a monolithic group since some people in Eastern Europe are called Slavs because they originally were enslaved by their neighbors, mostly Arabs, before the 10th century which is centuries before the trans atlantic trade.
But then you said:

The people I'm referencing aren't black. Of course you and people like you want to keep them "black" because if they take back their heritage and leave the nations they're in captivity
I tried to connect the dots but I honestly don't understand your Israel america narrative.
Who are they ? Are they Hispanics?

And more importantly where was for you the red sea? the river of jordan? places like Jericho, Damascus, Gaza? the Temple of Solomon ?

How do you explain Ethiopians mentioned in the OT and NT? Philistines? Syria?
Arabs mentioned in NT and OT?
Cyrus or Nebuchodonosor king of babylon?

Is it even possible to find a place called America in the torah/bible?
I'm genuinely asking how you come to such conclusion.
 





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@KoncreteMind

I've read all your answers here but you lost me when you said


I guess you talked about African Americans as a monolithic group since some people in Eastern Europe are called Slavs because they originally were enslaved by their neighbors, mostly Arabs, before the 10th century which is centuries before the trans atlantic trade.
But then you said:



I tried to connect the dots but I honestly don't understand your Israel america narrative.
Who are they ? Are they Hispanics?
Well black is a color. It's not an identity or nationality. But it's much easier for me to reference "black" when talking about the group you call "African" American then to have to explain this each and every time. Though a lot of times I'll give the side note about black being a color and not an identity anyways.

And like I said to the person the post was towards, if I said slavery then walked off you'd definitely have a point. Blacks aren't the only people who have been slaves. But I was very specific about what black people went thru and how it relates to what the Bible says the descendants of Israel would go thru. If you want to address that then the post is there. If you want to pretend that all I said was "blacks were slaves thus they're Israelites" well then I can't help you.

And more importantly where was for you the red sea? the river of jordan? places like Jericho, Damascus, Gaza? the Temple of Solomon ?
They changed the names of places so I can't give you exact info on those things beyond the temple of Solomon being in central/South America. I'll never claim to have all the answers or that I know it all. But They haven't found ANYTHING of Solomon or David in the Middle East.

How do you explain Ethiopians mentioned in the OT and NT? Philistines? Syria?
Arabs mentioned in NT and OT?
Cyrus or Nebuchodonosor king of babylon?

Is it even possible to find a place called America in the torah/bible?
I'm genuinely asking how you come to such conclusion.
Everything biblically happened in America. That's why there are Egyptian monuments in DC, and cities such as Memphis/Little Egypt. It's why there was Egyptian artifacts found in the Grand Canyon/Illinois. It's why a statue of Mohammed can be found in DC. It's why Greek names can be found in in certain cities (ones with "opolis") It's why Alexander the Greats tomb was allegedly found in Illinois. Because all the events happened here before people started changing things around.

So I'm not sure what specific answer you're looking for in regards to the questions you asked. But yes it all happened here
 





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Just something to think about. They have literally found evidence of tin that was mined in England in “Israel” before they have been able to find evidence of the exodus or the kingdom of Solomon. They found evidence they weren’t even looking for that would potentially support the history of the presence of the sea people, and they have found no evidence to support anything that should be a dominant remnant in the land that they have been intentionally looking for.

“The most logical source? According to the authors, the most likely suppliers of the 13th–12th century BCE tin ingots from Israel are tin mines from Cornwall and Devon.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/groun...urce=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Also, for what it’s worth. Egypt was never historically known as mizraim. The only Egypt-mizraim reference that exists is from the Bible.

In my opinion, if Israel is a real location, it has been fairly well confirmed that it was not in the location we are presently calling Israel. However, Philo wrote a lovely book on reading the Bible as allegory that is fascinating to consider as well since it is becoming more and more obvious that archeology is nowhere near being able to support the theory that the secular state of Israel is the one prophesied in the Bible.
 





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Well black is a color. It's not an identity or nationality. But it's much easier for me to reference "black" when talking about the group you call "African" American then to have to explain this each and every time.
I don't understand why you said you're not talking about blacks. So they're not hispanic?


They changed the names of places so I can't give you exact info on those things
How? Damascus and Jericho are among the oldest cities in human history so when exactly people changed the name of those places ?
The United States are younger than the dead sea scrolls and other hebrew scriptures that mentions places like the red sea, Jericho, Persia so how does that work ?

temple of Solomon being in central/South America
Do you have anything that could convince me of that?


But They haven't found ANYTHING of Solomon or David in the Middle East.
The Tel dan stele found in Palestine mentioning the house of David? Ethiopians claiming a solomonic dynasty that originates from the queen of Seba mentionned in the Bible ?

Everything biblically happened in America
No, it's a big no and you can't possibly say that with a straight face because Romans never invaded south America, crucifixion wasn't practiced by Native Americans, we have the DNA of Philistines who lived in what we call now Israel almost 3000 years ago, which is in the middle east.
The jordan river isn't in America, Arabs mentioned in the OT are semite and don't live in America plus no American tribes spoke Arabic because Arabs used to live in Arabia.

It's why a statue of Mohammed can be found in DC.
This is so wrong that it hurts my brain.
Plus it's forbidden in Islam.

To be straight, you think the world revolves around south america and 'real' Jerusalem exist between mexico and Sao Paulo?
 





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They have also found an Egyptian temple instead of evidence of Moses' trek through the wilderness.

"Mount Horeb is the holy mountain of Exodus. It is referred to as “the mountain of God” in Exodus 3:1, and named by Moses “Massah, and Meribah” (Exodus 17:6), where the rock was smited in order to create water for the troups. [This is also near the site of the battle between the Amalek and the Hebrews.] Beginning in Chapter 19 of Exodus, however, there is an apparent move “into the wilderness of Sinai” and “to the desert of Sinai”, whereupon Moses, et al, pitched camp at what is now referred to as Mount Sinai.

Later, after all of the goings on at Mount Sinai, Moses is again told to head for greener pastures (“a land flowing with milk and honey” -- Exodus 33:3), but apparently before going, the children of Israel are stripping “themselves of their ornaments by the mount Horeb.” (Exodus 33:6). Was there some backtracking here? Are there two mountains?

In all respects, it appears that Mount Horeb is the one mountain of the one God. Located in the Sinai wilderness/desert, Horeb is also a mountain of Sinai. In fact, it was only in the fourth century A.D. that “Mount Sinai” even existed -- apparently given the name by Greek Christian monks almost two thousand years after Moses. In modern times, the mountain called Gebel Musa -- “Mount of Moses” -- is now the alleged stand-in for the holy mountain, but Mount Horeb is actually the peak now called Mount Serabit, at a location called Serabit el-Khadim. [1] " https://joycebayarcheology.blogspot.com/2014/08/mount-horeb-aka-moount-sina-or-mount.html
There was a huge mining operation in the same wilderness that the Israelites were apparently wandering for forty years.

"Serabit el-Khadim, a large, systematic operation was set up that would flourish for thousands of years. It was important enough to the Egyptians that a number of policing actions and protective measures were taken to protect the mines throughout most of Egypt dynastic period To mine the turquoise, the Egyptians would hollow out large galleries in the mountains, carving at the entrance to each a representation of the reigning pharaoh who was the symbol of the authority of the Egyptian state over the mines. A huge quantity of turquoise over that period was mined, carried down the Wadi Matalla to a garrisoned port located at el-Markha (south of Abu Zenima), and loaded aboard ships bound for Egypt. The turquoise was then used both for jewelry and to make color pigments for painting."

https://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/serabit.htm
And a temple that was built for Hathor around the time of the 12th dynasty, which would have been approximately 1991-1802 BC. This is within a few hundred years of when Moses would have made the exodus. It definitely would have been present and would have likely still been operational during this time.

The Serabit El Khadim temple looks like a double series of steles leading to an underground chapel dedicated to the Hathor Goodness. Much of the temple's large number of sanctuaries and shrines were dedicated to Hathor, who among her many other attributes, was the patron goddess of copper and turquoise miners. It is the only temple we know of built outside mainland Egypt and mostly dedicated to Hathor. The earliest part of the main rock cut Hathor Temple, which has a front court and portico, dates to the 12th Dynasty The temple was probably founded by Amenemhet III, during a period of time when the mines were particularly active. The 12th Dynasty was a period of considerable mineral wealth for Egyptians and some of the finest jewelry from Egypt's past have been discovered in the tombs of 12th Dynasty women.

A number of scenes portray the role of Hathor in the transformation of the new king, upon ascending the throne, into the deified ruler of Egypt. One scene, for example, depicts Hathor suckling the pharaoh. Another scene from a stone tabled depicts Hathor offering the pharaoh the Ankh. https://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/serabit.htm
Here is a picture approximation of this temple that would have been present during the exodus from the same touregypt site.



In my opinion, it is pretty safe to say that the secular Jewish state is not the Israel that is prophesied in the Bible.
 





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This guy has a different exodus route to avoid the mining operations that the Israelites would have run into if they went from Egypt to Israel the traditional way that has been assumed.

Here is his map.



Take a look at that little green line going around the loooong way and tell me if you really think an entire group of people including women and children could accomplish this trek in 40 years. To me, this looks like another dead end in trying to prove that the secular state is the one prophesied in the bible.

https://sites.google.com/site/why40daysand40nights/mt-lawz-the-true-mt-sinai
 





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This guy has a different exodus route to avoid the mining operations that the Israelites would have run into if they went from Egypt to Israel the traditional way that has been assumed.

Here is his map.



Take a look at that little green line going around the loooong way and tell me if you really think an entire group of people including women and children could accomplish this trek in 40 years. To me, this looks like another dead end in trying to prove that the secular state is the one prophesied in the bible.

https://sites.google.com/site/why40daysand40nights/mt-lawz-the-true-mt-sinai
As usual, excellent posts RA.....
 





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Take a look at that little green line going around the loooong way and tell me if you really think an entire group of people including women and children could accomplish this trek in 40 years
Regarding the map, you think it's possible or you think it's not possible because
God couldn't have been possibly with them thus miracles couldn't happen?