Do you believe secular Jewish state of Israel is prophesied in the Bible?

Lisa

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Here American Jewish Businessman and anti-Zionist Benjamin Freedman exposes the fact that the Jews of modern day Israel are Ashkenazi Khazars. This is from 1961!
I guess they’ve been trying to deceive people for a long time then...
 





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But the "Old Testament" is actually the Torah.... correct or perhaps I am mistaken?
Torah is the first five books of the Bible: Genesis (Beresheit/Beginnings), Exodus (Shemot/Names), Leviticus (Vayikra/And He Called), Numbers (Bamidbar/In the Wilderness), Deuteronomy (Devarim/Words). For more information, check out torahportions.ffoz.org. The Tanakh is the proper term for the entire OT, encompassing the Torah, the Prophets, and the Writings.

I still feel drawn to study the Torah although I do not agree with Hebrew Roots anymore and the Zionism I saw there. It is important to know Torah to see Jesus in it.
 





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Yes I do believe the DNA studies that were done by Jewish scientists no less. Jewish author Arthur Koestler, wrote a book call the 13th Tribe back in 1976. It has now been proven by science that what wrote was true.

Wikipedia -
The Thirteenth Tribe is a 1976 book by Arthur Koestler, in which the author advances the thesis that Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from the historical Israelites of antiquity, but from Khazars, a Turkic people. Koestler hypothesized that the Khazars migrated westwards into Eastern Europe in the 12th and 13th centuries when the Khazar Empire was collapsing.

Here American Jewish Businessman and anti-Zionist Benjamin Freedman exposes the fact that the Jews of modern day Israel are Ashkenazi Khazars. This is from 1961!

Bad argument...
Over 50% of the Jewish population is of at least a partial Sephardi/Mizrahi descent
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Jews

I dont often use Rationalwiki but they capture a certain truth here...
The Khazar myth holds that Ashkenazi Jews (i.e., those descended from an Eastern European bloodline) are not ethnically Jewish at all, but descended from the Turkic Khazar Empire. This myth is often harnessed in attempts to discredit Zionism and/or to explain why the British/Aryan/Black/Arabs/insert race here, and not the Jews, are the REAL chosen people of the Bible.


Though Ashkenazi Jews are the largest ethnic group of Jews today, Sephardim (Jews of Spanish and North African descent) and Mizrahim (Jews of Middle Eastern descent) make up the majority of the Jewish population in Israel. Furthermore, Israel has become the home of many smaller Jewish ethnic groups, such as Ethiopian Jews, Yemenite Jews, and Kaifeng Jews. Since the Khazar myth doesn't address those Jews at all, any use of it to prove that "the Jews" aren't real Jews has significant holes.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Khazar_myth
 





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Bad argument...
Over 50% of the Jewish population is of at least a partial Sephardi/Mizrahi descent
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Jews

I dont often use Rationalwiki but they capture a certain truth here...
The Khazar myth holds that Ashkenazi Jews (i.e., those descended from an Eastern European bloodline) are not ethnically Jewish at all, but descended from the Turkic Khazar Empire. This myth is often harnessed in attempts to discredit Zionism and/or to explain why the British/Aryan/Black/Arabs/insert race here, and not the Jews, are the REAL chosen people of the Bible.


Though Ashkenazi Jews are the largest ethnic group of Jews today, Sephardim (Jews of Spanish and North African descent) and Mizrahim (Jews of Middle Eastern descent) make up the majority of the Jewish population in Israel. Furthermore, Israel has become the home of many smaller Jewish ethnic groups, such as Ethiopian Jews, Yemenite Jews, and Kaifeng Jews. Since the Khazar myth doesn't address those Jews at all, any use of it to prove that "the Jews" aren't real Jews has significant holes.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Khazar_myth
I am assuming you never read the thread and my other posts. edit
 





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https://www.henrymakow.com/2018/09/fraudulent-khazar-claim.html

A 2012 genetic study published in the British journal Genome Biology and Evolution claims that European Jews (Ashkenazi) don't belong to the 12 (Semite) tribes of Israel. They're a mix of genetic ancestries, far more of which than previously thought to originate in tribes from the Caucasus - a region that sits between Eastern Europe and Asia Minor. Ashkenazi ancestry comes from Slav, Bulgar, Iranian and Turkic tribes which established the Khazar empire in that region - which at its peak stretched from Kiev in the West to the Aral Sea in the Southeast.

See the link below
The study, titled 'The Missing Link of Jewish European Ancestry: Contrasting the Rhineland and the Khazarian Hypotheses', was

conducted by Dr. Eran Elhaik, an Israeli-American geneticist at the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health in Baltimore, Maryland. Elhaik compared the genomes of 1,287 unrelated individuals who hail from eight Jewish and 74 non-Jewish populations.

Among the European Jews, Elhaik found ancestral signatures that pointed clearly to the Caucasus and also, but to a smaller degree, the Middle East, where the Israelite (Hebrew tribes) had originated. More than 90% of 12.7 million world Jewish population is Ashkenazi.
 





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If you’re anti Zionist you don’t want the Jews to have a homeland, so that would also make you anti Jewish.
This is incorrect on all three fronts insinuated here.

Idk about your bf, doesn’t he/she know that God gave them the land forever? If they are religious they should at least know about God’s covenant with Abraham.
Well, my Jewish friend believes the "country" of Israel to be completely illegitimate. He's more proficient in this topic than me, but he does believe that what Israel does is a disgrace to Jews and the Jewish religion. He also happens to not think too highly of non-religious (and/or atheist) Jews who he sees as indicative of absolute hypocrisy when it comes to what it means to be a Jew.
 





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https://www.henrymakow.com/2018/09/fraudulent-khazar-claim.html

A 2012 genetic study published in the British journal Genome Biology and Evolution claims that European Jews (Ashkenazi) don't belong to the 12 (Semite) tribes of Israel. They're a mix of genetic ancestries, far more of which than previously thought to originate in tribes from the Caucasus - a region that sits between Eastern Europe and Asia Minor. Ashkenazi ancestry comes from Slav, Bulgar, Iranian and Turkic tribes which established the Khazar empire in that region - which at its peak stretched from Kiev in the West to the Aral Sea in the Southeast.

See the link below
The study, titled 'The Missing Link of Jewish European Ancestry: Contrasting the Rhineland and the Khazarian Hypotheses', was

conducted by Dr. Eran Elhaik, an Israeli-American geneticist at the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health in Baltimore, Maryland. Elhaik compared the genomes of 1,287 unrelated individuals who hail from eight Jewish and 74 non-Jewish populations.

Among the European Jews, Elhaik found ancestral signatures that pointed clearly to the Caucasus and also, but to a smaller degree, the Middle East, where the Israelite (Hebrew tribes) had originated. More than 90% of 12.7 million world Jewish population is Ashkenazi.
Its a bad argument because in Israel Ashkenazi jews are a minority...less than 50%
 





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I guess that’s why your narrative is wrong then...too bad.
I’m fine with being wrong according to you while being right according to history.

Unsurprisingly you whittled the convo down to this to avoid answering what you can’t answer that was in my posts. Which is what I expected in the first place and is why I wondered why even quote me if we’re going to end up in this same place every time. To each their own tho
 





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Its a bad argument because in Israel Ashkenazi jews are a minority...less than 50%
The math doesn't work. According to the Elhaike study and others - Contemporary Eastern European Jews comprise the largest ethno-religious aggregate of modern Jewish communities, accounting for approximately 90% of over 13 million Jews worldwide (Ostrer 2001).

So that leaves 1.3 million as non Eastern European Jews worldwide.

If your source say that 51% of the Core Jewish population in Israel are partial Sephardi/Mizrah Jews then that means out of 6,556,000 there are 3,343,560 compared to 1,300,000 worldwide! Something doesn't add up.

Over 50% of the Jewish population is of at least a partial Sephardi/Mizrahi descent
Wikipedia
6,556,000 (2015)
74.6% of the Israeli population[1][2][3]
Enlarged Jewish population (includes non-Jewish relatives of Jews):
6,705,000
79.3% of the Israeli population
 





Lisa

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I’m fine with being wrong according to you while being right according to history.

Unsurprisingly you whittled the convo down to this to avoid answering what you can’t answer that was in my posts. Which is what I expected in the first place and is why I wondered why even quote me if we’re going to end up in this same place every time. To each their own tho
I didn’t think our conversation was going anywhere which is why I whittled it down to the bare bones as it were..
 





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“Immigration to Israel:
Table of Contents
|
Total, by Year
|
Total, by Country per Year
Russia/Ukraine (Former USSR)
1,557,698
Morocco, Algeria & Tunisia
361,339*
Romania
276,834*
Poland
173,907*
Iraq
131,013*
United States
110,237
Ethiopia
92,912
France
71,987
Iran
80,863*
Argentina
61,695
Turkey
63,837
Yemen
51,518*
Bulgaria
44,472*
Egypt and Sudan
37,953*
Libya
36,088*
United Kingdom
35,540
Hungary
32,662*
India
28,939*
Czechoslovakia (Former)
24,620*
South Africa
20,730
Germany
20,381*
Yugoslavia (Former)
10,871*
Syria
10,239*”
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/total-immigration-to-israel-by-country-of-origin

There is no way the Jewish population in Israel originates as either 50% mizrahi or Sephardic or even a combination of both.

Even if they did, some percentage of these populations would be descended from converts during the time of the Hasmoneans, which is an undisputed historical reality, and on top of this, there is no way to actually know who was an original Israeli since there is no actual evidence in the location we are calling Israel that there was ever a historical kingdom of Israel present there. Literally Judaism as we know it could have been invented by the Hasmoneans.

Where these stories originate is a mystery and there is no real reason to believe that Sephardic or mizrahi Jews are not actually converts either. Since ancient Israel did not exist in the place that people are presently claiming that it did, there is no way to know who would truly be considered a descendent of this history at this point in time, but it would more than likely be a much smaller number than the ones represented in this census data.
 





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I didn’t think our conversation was going anywhere which is why I whittled it down to the bare bones as it were..
Convos usually don’t go anywhere when one side simply keeps repeating themselves. If you say a verse in Ezekiel is proof of prophecy being fulfilled then you should also be able to address the Ezekiel verse(s)that comes before that that says that BEFORE they enter the land the rebels will be purged from their midst.

Of course since it pokes a hole in what you’re saying you disregard it which is exactly what I knew you’d do. And that’s fine as I’m not here to force you to talk or address anything. But it kinda defeats the purpose to engage someone in conversation (by you quoting me)then ignore what they say.
 





Lisa

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Convos usually don’t go anywhere when one side simply keeps repeating themselves. If you say a verse in Ezekiel is proof of prophecy being fulfilled then you should also be able to address the Ezekiel verse(s)that comes before that that says that BEFORE they enter the land the rebels will be purged from their midst.

Of course since it pokes a hole in what you’re saying you disregard it which is exactly what I knew you’d do. And that’s fine as I’m not here to force you to talk or address anything. But it kinda defeats the purpose to engage someone in conversation (by you quoting me)then ignore what they say.
That’s because that verse in Ezekiel is a big deal, God beings the Jews back in their land despite them. Seems like that’s exactly what has happened since they aren’t following God. So ya I think that verse is correct in why they are back in their land. You can say but this or that but the reality is they are back in their land and the verse in Ezekiel is why.

I also add other prophetic verses to it to show its prophetic but you’re the one who wants to stick to the verses you brought up which are wrong since the Jews are back in the land God gave them in the M.E.

And that’s the other problem, you think the Jews are in America and are being kept in because of the wall in Mexico...you aren’t even being realistic about that, how can you then quote scriptures like you understand the truth when you obviously don’t?
 





lightseeker

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Even if God wanted to lead Jews back to the promised land.

Instead it was a bunch of atheist Europeans.

Lisa basically has to ignore every aspect of reality to keep her views in tact, and has stated that that's what she intends to do. It led to a lot of interesting counter points being brought against a comically staunch advocate, a type of character which usually wouldn't exist other than hypotheticals
 





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Lisa

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Even if God wanted to lead Jews back to the promised land.

Instead it was a bunch of atheist Europeans.

Lisa basically has to ignore every aspect of reality to keep her views in tact, and has stated that that's what she intends to do. It led to a lot of interesting counter points bringing brought against a comically staunch advocate, a type of character which usually wouldn't exist other than hypotheticals
The Jews wandered the world for a long time and many of them came from Europe doesn’t mean that they aren’t still Jews. That they are worldly only goes to prove why they build a temple to God, they think that they have no way to go back to Him then what their ancestors did, proving they still reject Jesus. Its when they build that temple and start the sacrifices again is when the last week starts.

And that last week is huge in prophecy, that’s when we see Jesus return, which is why maybe people like to lie and say those aren’t real Jews, trying to mess up the timeline and non discerning people are deceived. However, discerning people know that there is a group within Israel that has already made plans for a rebuilt 3rd temple. They have the plans for it drawn up, and some say its all ready pre built and can be put up right away. They found Levite’s and attired them and have been training them how to do the sacrifice.They also have all the implements needed to perform the sacrifice. The rebuilt temple was spoken about in Revelation, so are you saying that’s all a coincidence then?
Revelation‬ ‭11:1-2‬ ‭
Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, “Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it. Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months.​
‭‭
I’m not talking about hypotheticals here, I’m talking about prophecy being fulfilled and one of those is that the Jews will return to their land. That’s where we see them now, and they are hated by the people around them, which is what the Bible says would happen, even nations not around them hate them. Instead of focusing on verses that may or may not have to do with the times of the end..focus on the ones that do, you will be more in tune with the events of today when you do that.
 





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you’re the one who wants to stick to the verses you brought up which are wrong
Ok let’s start here and with the Ezekiel verse that says before they enter the land all rebels will be purged from their midst. How am I “wrong” concerning that happening BEFORE (not after) them entering the land?
And that’s the other problem, you think the Jews are in America and are being kept in because of the wall in Mexico...you aren’t even being realistic about that, how can you then quote scriptures like you understand the truth when you obviously don’t?
Let’s not start with me then. Let’s start with Colombo. Why was he in the Americas looking for Israelites and Israel when it should have been common knowledge (according to you) that Israel is in the Middle East?

Or if not there then Deuteronomy 28 where it says the curses will lie on the descendants of the Israelites. We could also go thru that and compare that to who I say the Israelites are vs who you say the Israelites are. Doubt you take up the offer but it’s there
 





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Ok let’s start here and with the Ezekiel verse that says before they enter the land all rebels will be purged from their midst. How am I “wrong” concerning that happening BEFORE (not after) them entering the land?


Let’s not start with me then. Let’s start with Colombo. Why was he in the Americas looking for Israelites and Israel when it should have been common knowledge (according to you) that Israel is in the Middle East?

Or if not there then Deuteronomy 28 where it says the curses will lie on the descendants of the Israelites. We could also go thru that and compare that to who I say the Israelites are vs who you say the Israelites are. Doubt you take up the offer but it’s there
Michael S Heiser and Vocab Malone have an interesting discussion about it...


For more in depth study on a spectrum of topics from a former Black Hebrew Israelite, this looks like a good channel...

https://www.youtube.com/user/ttv2050
 





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lightseeker

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The Jews wandered the world for a long time and many of them came from Europe doesn’t mean that they aren’t still Jews. That they are worldly only goes to prove why they build a temple to God, they think that they have no way to go back to Him then what their ancestors did, proving they still reject Jesus. Its when they build that temple and start the sacrifices again is when the last week starts.

And that last week is huge in prophecy, that’s when we see Jesus return, which is why maybe people like to lie and say those aren’t real Jews, trying to mess up the timeline and non discerning people are deceived. However, discerning people know that there is a group within Israel that has already made plans for a rebuilt 3rd temple. They have the plans for it drawn up, and some say its all ready pre built and can be put up right away. They found Levite’s and attired them and have been training them how to do the sacrifice.They also have all the implements needed to perform the sacrifice. The rebuilt temple was spoken about in Revelation, so are you saying that’s all a coincidence then?
Revelation‬ ‭11:1-2‬ ‭​

Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, “Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it. Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months.​
‭‭
I’m not talking about hypotheticals here, I’m talking about prophecy being fulfilled and one of those is that the Jews will return to their land. That’s where we see them now, and they are hated by the people around them, which is what the Bible says would happen, even nations not around them hate them. Instead of focusing on verses that may or may not have to do with the times of the end..focus on the ones that do, you will be more in tune with the events of today when you do that.
I don't deny that Israel is significant to the end times, but people have different ideas of what will occur. As I understand it, Israel is not going to reign in Jesus Christ ruling as the righteous king, but the anti-Christ embodied. I think this is hard to deny given that they are sworn enemies of Christ. The Jewish religion that we know today was essentially the people that rejected Christ. I'm not sure of your views on how the end times will occur. But from what I see these events are being orchestrated by the anti-Christ.

Where does that leave God in this equation? Obviously God is beyond good and evil. God makes the best of all things. His Son being crucified even God used his blood to atone for the sins of the world. So God cannot be defeated. But the establishment of the third temple will be the beginning of the anti-christ's establishment of his kingdom of earth.

Don't forget that Jews do not agree with your religion. They believe Jesus was a criminal and deserved to die. This is in their Talmud. They believe that you worshipping Jesus makes you an idol worshipper and according to their law you would be condemned to death. They believe you do not have a soul and cannot have one, and the most perverse and degenerate Jew has a more righteous soul than you could ever have. They believe you were created to serve as a slave to them, at that when their moshiach comes all gentiles will be slaves of the Jews
 





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Michael S Heiser and Vocab Malone have an interesting discussion about it...


For more in depth study on a spectrum of topics from a former Black Hebrew Israelite, this looks like a good channel...

https://www.youtube.com/user/ttv2050
20 minutes and not once did they open up the Bible to disprove the biblical claims that are made. Maybe you could tell me why that is...