Do you believe secular Jewish state of Israel is prophesied in the Bible?

SquaredCircle

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How can you say a prophecy that is said to happen right before the prophecy you says has happened, “hasn’t happened yet”?




All the wrong places based on who exactly?

And if you don’t know why there, do you know why Egyptian artifacts have been found in Illinois and the Grand Canyon? With the Grand Canyon allegedly have a descendant or someone named “Zaphnath”? How come the only stone tablets of the commandments ever found in the world in were found in America? And in Hebrew?



Actually that’s what we’re trying to figure out. So let’s go from modern times. What curse does the holocaust for the “Jews” fit and what curse does slavery fit for so called blacks?



They weren’t forcibly scattered to the ends of the earth that’s for sure. The only people that could lay claim to that is “black” people. You can find “black” people in a variety of places like Brazil, Peru, Mexico, Colombia, Europe, there’s Afro Russians, Asians, etc... Nobody can be found in that variety of places other than blacks. And that’s because a certain tribe of black people are the real Israelites. Hopefully you took note of what happened to Egypt once the Israelites left Egypt.



No what I hate is when people willingly twist scripture to make it say something it doesn’t. God says that A then B then C will happen and you say B can come first then maybe C twice then A. That’s not how it works. God said the rebels wouldn’t enter the land after He gathered the Israelites, while you say God gathered the rebels and let them into the land. That’s a clear reason why you and the religion you represent are not to believed by anyone wanting anything to do with the Bible.
The Dogon know what is going on !
 






SquaredCircle

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Feel free to ignore anything you want. Why respond to something when you have no good answer? I'm down to provide supporting information. I was on my phone before and couldn't be bothered to type anything out. I'm all for having an intellectual discussion.



Okay I'm not sure what you're getting at by this.




Yep the word Egypt is latin which is dervied from Greek. The hebrew bible (as it was originally written) calls Egypt by the name of Mizraim. We use Egypt today so we know what land we're talking about.




I'm not really going to play dad here other than to say "Because I said so. :)". I think we all should supply support for our arguments otherwise nothing gets accomplished.



To answer the question of the thread, I do believe that Isreal today IS prophisied about in the bible. The reason I believe that is that the bible states that Isreal will have to be reborn before the coming of Christ and 70 years ago it was. It being secular has little to nothing to do with anything. In fact, I implore you to visit Isreal and see how unsecular it really is today. I've been there multiple times and can say from first hand experience that there are many Jews there still practicing their faith and awaiting their old testament messiah.

Follow up question though, what do you mean by it being in the wrong place? Please provide support for that claim.

Also, you may see it as a blessing to not believe in my God but obviously to me it isn't. Since I do believe that I am correct in believing in my God, then I can't help but feel sadness that you are not able to see the truth as wonderful as it is.
Misraim and Memphis Rites ! There are those pesky Mason’s again ! Lol
 






SquaredCircle

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I just explained it. I said they're not black because black (and white for that matter) are colors. They're not nationalities And they're not identities. So the people you refer to as black aren't "black" because that is a color. A color the majority of them don't even match. At the same time, I call them black for short hand instead of having to explain this every time.




How about you show me the oldest map you can showing Israel in the Middle East? You won't find one older than the 1800s I bet. So you can say they're old cities but where and can you prove the place you believe them to be is actually the place they originally were? Because in the 1400s Colombus was on the other side of the world looking for "Jerusalem"



You're saying land is younger than the scriptures? United States is a corporation err...I mean a country. The existence of the country has no relevance to the discussion because there were people and KINGDOMS here before the US was even thought of. But maybe I'm missing something though regarding your point

I don't know what specific answer you're looking for when you ask me about specific places. I can't map out the promised land for you. I can only provide reasonings for WHY I believe it's somewhere here


I'm not here to convince you of anything.




Yea things getting found AFTER the emergence of secular Israel. Anything before the emergence?

And there was travel between America and Africa before the transatlantic slave trade (which was over exaggerated by the way) and before Colombus. So the connection between Ethiopia and Israel could happen whether they were in America or secular Israel.



Based on....?



Then tell me what this signifies


You also never answered. Was I right or wrong when I said Egypt originally wasn't referred to as Egypt? Just making sure WE keep the conversation honest and humble because you originally acted as if I was incorrect making that statement.



Prove it. Meaning prove that the DNA matches that of the ancient philistines. You can't. You're going off of someone who has an agenda they want to prove.



Hey take your beef up with Colombus not me. He's the one who brought a Hebrew translator with him to the Americas (Luis de Torres). There's also Arron de Montezinos (?) who said he found Israelites in South America reciting the shema. You see this is what I want to see from you. Support. Not just "no you're wrong"


*yawns*







The one place where colonizer came, conquered, enslaved then transported the inhabitants out of are the Americas. This matches exactly what the Bible said would happen to Israel. Of course there was more than just Israel here but you should get the gist of what I'm saying
Its obvious that he is a sacrifice to Yahweh or King Kong ! King Kong was Hitlers favourite movie . That is synchronicity and King Kong was really Baal !
I have zero evidence for these theories, but they are as legit as most I read here !
Are UFO’s Jewish and did Hitler steal them from the Jewish people ?
 






SquaredCircle

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I've skimmed this conversation so I won't get into technicalities here. Just from reading the both of you interacting, it's clearly evident that you are reacting emotionally to this whole subject. Believe it or not, not everything has to make perfect sense to you. God has no obligation to explain himself to us.

I believe somewhere in this thread you pointed out that Egypt wasn't called Egypt back then. That's false, it is commonly documented throughout history books that Egypt existed and was even named so.

I think you have this huge desire to think that the Bible is incorrect so Lisa is correct in saying that arguing with you is pointless since there is no fiber of your being that would be open to even trying to understand where she coming from rationally.

The unfortunate thing about this thread is that you aren't even making any points that furthers your argument (What is your argument?). I'm sorry that you don't believe in a loving God and feel like we are all victims of his unjust wrath. If you truly are willing to learn the truth, please do some research outside of this website. Better yet, grab a Bible and start challenging it. Challenge it with any questions you have and then read it to see what it says. Prove yourself right or wrong.
The bible has been proved over and over to be a gigantic mess of corrections , omittance’s , add ons , lies , truths , translation errors etc... etc...
Do all you Christian’s know that the two oldest bibles in existence contain no resurrection of Jesus ! Or did Satan make those bibles ? Lol lol lol you guys crack me up ! All this energy fighting over a book that cant even support itself in a court of truth !
 






SquaredCircle

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The Bible tells us it was inspired by God, so not a book of myths and legends. God who created the world and people would surely know that history and He put it in a book for us to read among other things she thought was pertinent for us to know about Him.

Even History channel thinks there is biblical
Archaeology..
Explore 10 Biblical Sites: Photos
These tantalizing archaeological finds may—or may not—offer material evidence of ancient locations, characters and stories written about in the Bible.

I thought the creation of Israel had some of its roots in Nazi Germany where 6 million Jews were killed. They may never have gotten their land back but someone took pity on them...
Lisa the bible is not fact ! God says things in thousands of books ! Are they correct ! You have faith and thats it ! You have zero evidence! Matter of fact seminary’s and biblical colleges have a huge dropout rate, because students learn what a mess the bible is and only the church or a group of god appointed men can say what is true and not . So hundreds of kids go to school to become priests and pastors and after a few year of theology, ancient history , forensic archeology they leave agnostic or atheist !
Religion is dying , because every year more and more evidence is unburied that says the opposite of the big 3 holy books ! You guys might as well be fighting over the truth or falsehood of Dungeon & Dragons throughout history ! Its just a story with little actual evidence outside of its own words.

Further more who could read the OT and say ? “ yep this looks like a loving god Im joining “ Anyone who believes the bible to be infallible should have their voting rites , reproduction rites and service to our country revoked . Im serious ! We put people in State Hospital’s for less lunacy !
 






SquaredCircle

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Yes He does..
Deuteronomy‬ ‭7:6‬ ‭
For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
‭‭
You are quite strange Lisa , but all the guff you take Im sure is just evidence of the world hating Jesus in you ! Lol . You are a fundy Sunday gal ! WOW !!!
 






Red Sky at Morning

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This thread is just amazing . If you sent these threads to an alien race they would hit the button ! Boom Bye bye apes ! Lol
Joseph Campbell said he could not believe that mankind was still believing religions in the 1970s !!
How true he was !
Ahh...

Joseph Campbell:-

0A54A6A8-F177-41D0-A7FE-5EB3256AD86D.jpeg

“Hero with a thousand faces”, or a deceiver with a thousand stories?

 






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SquaredCircle

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Ahh...

Joseph Campbell:-

View attachment 32391

“Hero with a thousand faces”, or a deceiver with a thousand stories?

If you think Joseph Campbell is full of it ? Your cult conditioning through fear is very complete . Im not disrespecting you at all , but at this point trying to use any logic or historical data on the bible would be like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500 .
I have no problem with Christian’s as people have a right to believe anything they want !
The issues I have with your logic is that it resides predominantly in America in the evangelical fundamentalist groups . If you went to Moody Bible Institute or St.Tikon’s which are on quite opposite sides of Christian learning , you would learn at both institutions that little of what you know or believe of the bible is correct . Furthermore both those Christian schools would teach you universally accepted biblical truths that are nothing like evangelical sola scriptura falsehoods.

If you believe that the Jehovah Witnesses ,Mormons or Millerites are false and wrong ? Then you can ad evangelical fundamentalist to that list as well , because their theology is not supported in any serious manner’s of antiquity.
Dont you guys realise that dispensationalism coupled with hermeneutical philosophy is just flat out as crazy as the Jehovah’s or Mormons ?
If your going to be a self called Christian, then at a minimum you owe it to yourself to learn from the ones who put your bible together ! Do you understand how your bible was assembled? Do you know who Eusibius was or Athanasius or Earsnaius and the fact that the Ancient Church fathers were apostles of Jesus’s apostles !
Thats right ! We have dozens of men called the Ancient Church Fathers who were students of Matthew , Mark , Luke and John , and they wrote many books ! Their teachings were part of the 1400 plus men who for 30 days in Nicaea in the year 325 AD argued over the divinity of Christ . After just 30 days the Gnostics were shown the door and Eusibius under Constatine had 50 bibles transcribed as the one and true book of God Jesus ! They also came up with the Nicene Creed the very corner stone of Christian Faith .
Do you evangelical’s realise that very little of what you believe has any real Christian confraternity to the origins of the bible or Christian mysticism?

Im far from attacking you or calling you stupid . I will say this though after studying the bible extensively, being raised Methodist , 10 yrs of Evangelical non denominational and 20 plus years of Eastern Orthodoxy. I can say with authority in my own life that the history and formation of the Christian Church is so convoluted and filled with out right made up crap that my faith could no longer bridge the apparent fundamental problems with the bible and its formation .

If Im wrong I want you to tell me and us here how is Yahweh a loving god who we later found out was Jesus as well through the biblical trinity? You know the whole Father son holy spirit thing .
If you read the Old Testament to all children age 12 from beginning to end there would not be one child who would run to that god as a saviour !!!!!! Yet the OT is the story coupled to Jesus as it was made up by men !
Paul was a Jewish turn coat who Hijacked the true Jesus movement from Jesus’s Brother James. Paul was a Roman Sympathiser as well as he allowed the Jewish pollution of the new Jesus anti -Temple truth Jesus was teaching .
The bible is in my opinion a Jewish and Paul bastardised story of the real and beautiful teachings of a True Magus Jesus who learned the mystery school ways that we are God and salvation lies internally within each person FREE of religion and Roman or Jewish Gods !
Both the Sanhedrin and Rome wanted Jesus the MAN who is God destroyed , because he was upsetting the gold and power control that Rome and it’s Jewish viper Bankers at the Temple had .
 






SquaredCircle

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Ahh...

Joseph Campbell:-

View attachment 32391

“Hero with a thousand faces”, or a deceiver with a thousand stories?

Do you have any self created wisdom on matters ? Posting a pod cast of random people with an Idea is far from truth !
As a secret society member I could post Aeon Byte pod casts as evidence of my knowledge, but that would be stupid , because no one has complete authority to claim they know with certainty that they are correct on anyone subject ! Self Gnosis outweighs all other truth provided it does not produce bad Intent or dogma !
 






Red Sky at Morning

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Do you have any self created wisdom on matters ? Posting a pod cast of random people with an Idea is far from truth !
As a secret society member I could post Aeon Byte pod casts as evidence of my knowledge, but that would be stupid , because no one has complete authority to claim they know with certainty that they are correct on anyone subject ! Self Gnosis outweighs all other truth provided it does not produce bad Intent or dogma !
You misunderstand me @SquaredCircle - I don’t believe debate achieves a great deal, so I simply share what I have come across.

In flat text, if you consider the many facets of the “Monomyth” as coined by James Joyce and popularised by Joseph Campbell, you might conclude that the story of apotheosis is a primal tale of mankind.

It is - it was told by the serpent to Eve, and has been woven skilfully, reframed for different cultures in different ages, from Osiris to Harry Potter! It’s the same old story, but it’s not the only story. You might one day consider re-examining the Gospel you are seemingly religiously vaccinated against right now, but I believe (and I hope I’m wrong) it would take some event or unexpected intervention in your life for you to do so.

If you do, this was a good read...

 






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SquaredCircle

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You misunderstand me @SquaredCircle - I don’t believe debate achieves a great deal, so I simply share what I have come across.

In flat text, if you consider the many facets of the “Monomyth” as coined by James Joyce and popularised by Joseph Campbell, you might conclude that the story of apotheosis is a primal tale of mankind.

It is - it was told by the serpent to Eve, and has been woven skilfully, reframed for different cultures in different ages, from Osiris to Harry Potter! It’s the same old story, but it’s not the only story. You might one day consider re-examining the Gospel you are seemingly religiously vaccinated against right now, but I believe (and I hope I’m wrong) it would take some event or unexpected intervention in your life for you to do so.

If you do, this was a good read...

Thank you ! If Jesus is a Confraternity of other pre stories how can you claim that the gospels are the end all of end all authority. ? Jesus or Horus ? The origins of Jesus are in Egypt and I accept Jesus in a lineage of illuminated teachers !
When Jesus said he is from the Father and answered Harrod with “ I am who you say I am “ we both can agree that Jesus believed that ! The difference is that I accept Jesus as God and Man just as I am God and Man ! Jesus asked his followers to become perfect as he was . Now how can a Man become perfect like a God ? Simple ! Get to work internally and find You who is God ! Jesus was either insane to ask man to become perfect or he knew a way to align your meat heat brain with your souls eyes which are God . If just accepting Jesus as Saviour is all that is required why the big long drawn out birth , life and crucifixion ? Why not send an Angel every 10 yrs as a reminder ? Jesus was Man and God who taught that YOU are as well , which contradicts Jewish Law ! The law saves you ! Not god or yourself as the Jews preach .
Jesus was special in the fact that he became a Sage and had courage beyond courage to challenge the Jewish money grubbers and their Roman handlers ! Jesus showed the FREE to play way to the Kingdom and the Jews went nuts , because they sold tickets to paradise and Rome could tax the Jews who were rolling in interest payment gold .
You accept Jesus above you as THE God and you as MAN are nothing without Jesus the mediatrix .
How can you look at the stars and think that the Many Eyed Many Winged Ancient of Days picked an arbitral time to come to Earth as a God/Man separate from all creation , perform miracles, beat death , hand over his kingdom to uneducated people and then never interact objectively again ? Furthermore why would God choose 2000 yrs ago as the poignant time then charge the whole of humanity prior and after to accept the bible or parish . As well not only condemn those who wont follow by demand with punishment , but a triumphant return were loving Jesus kills all the billions of people who are Jewish , Muslim , Buddhist, Agnostic and atheists.
If I formed a club under the same construct you would call me a monster. Your issue is fear and not faith !
 






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SquaredCircle

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You misunderstand me @SquaredCircle - I don’t believe debate achieves a great deal, so I simply share what I have come across.

In flat text, if you consider the many facets of the “Monomyth” as coined by James Joyce and popularised by Joseph Campbell, you might conclude that the story of apotheosis is a primal tale of mankind.

It is - it was told by the serpent to Eve, and has been woven skilfully, reframed for different cultures in different ages, from Osiris to Harry Potter! It’s the same old story, but it’s not the only story. You might one day consider re-examining the Gospel you are seemingly religiously vaccinated against right now, but I believe (and I hope I’m wrong) it would take some event or unexpected intervention in your life for you to do so.

If you do, this was a good read...

If Old Scratch Satan himself was planting seeds to manipulate prior tales why did he not manipulate the Bible to shed his old serpent ways as a true and correct way ! Your idea that Satan manipulated older parallel Jesus archetypes also caries with it the knowledge that God allows all of Satan’s actions or denies them . The story of Job were Lucifer is at Gods feet pleading to have a go at Job /Faust .
So why would the creator God allow Satan to deceive millions of people into hell prior to the non Satan tampered OT/NT bible with other Jesus type stories that deceived ?
I want you to think about what you write before you write it !
 






Red Sky at Morning

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IYour idea that Satan manipulated older parallel Jesus archetypes also caries with it the knowledge that God allows all of Satan’s actions or denies them .
God’s plan of salvation and Satan’s line of deception have both been present from the beginning.

04FFFA91-0101-4C3B-8975-C842E8B971BF.png

Perhaps the two great themes of history are whether Satan or YHWH is God and worthy of worship, and whether we are our own saviours or whether we need one.

On the topic of the broad sweep of history, I am presently reading the following book, and finding it very enlightening:-

 






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Its obvious that he is a sacrifice to Yahweh or King Kong ! King Kong was Hitlers favourite movie . That is synchronicity and King Kong was really Baal !
I have zero evidence for these theories, but they are as legit as most I read here !
Are UFO’s Jewish and did Hitler steal them from the Jewish people ?
Look around you ma’am (or sir)... The kingdom who has been teaching you fake history/math/religion for the last 400+ years is on its last legs.You can’t find evidence of the Bible because they purposely won’t look in the right place.

But as I said maybe in this thread or another, the Bible is a FAMILIAL book. Its not for you so that’s why you don’t get it,mock it, laugh at it, try to dissuade others from believing it etc... Because that’s your purpose here in life.

I’m in the game and you’re the heckler in the audience who has no hand in what’s going on in the game. So just stay on the sidelines watching. The truth will be revealed to everyone in front of everyone in due time ;)
 






Lisa

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Lisa the bible is not fact ! God says things in thousands of books ! Are they correct ! You have faith and thats it ! You have zero evidence! Matter of fact seminary’s and biblical colleges have a huge dropout rate, because students learn what a mess the bible is and only the church or a group of god appointed men can say what is true and not . So hundreds of kids go to school to become priests and pastors and after a few year of theology, ancient history , forensic archeology they leave agnostic or atheist !
Religion is dying , because every year more and more evidence is unburied that says the opposite of the big 3 holy books ! You guys might as well be fighting over the truth or falsehood of Dungeon & Dragons throughout history ! Its just a story with little actual evidence outside of its own words.

Further more who could read the OT and say ? “ yep this looks like a loving god Im joining “ Anyone who believes the bible to be infallible should have their voting rites , reproduction rites and service to our country revoked . Im serious ! We put people in State Hospital’s for less lunacy !
We are told that the Bible was inspired by God..so that makes it the most accurate book out of any and the book with authority, as its inspired by the God who made us and the earth we live on! How can it be wrong?

Yep, that’s it in a nutshell, you have to have faith. We walk by faith and not by sight..however..who made the stars in the sky? Who made the animals that roam the earth..they all have different looks and different roles in life..birds fly, but not all do, funny looking animals and sweet looking ones, ones that will kill humans. Its an incredible world in the animal kingdom. And that’s not thought out, or designed but created in a bang over time..I don’t think so. Of course its a man that came up with that right? One has to be careful what they learn and who they learn it from.

Ya, I would imagine that schooling could be the worst part of belief..because then you are looking for proof instead of faith...and if the colleges have fallen away, you might too.

God is loving in the OT read about how He made skins to cover Adam and Eve..read about how He asked them about what happened to them..did He hurt them, kill them..no but He did give them a penalty for disobeying Him..which He warned them about in the first place. Look at Cain who killed his brother, He sealed Cain with a mark so no one would kill him for murder. Look at how He took care of His people and saved them from pharaoh. How He helped them with the people around them who wanted to wipe them out. God send prophets to His chosen people to turn them back to Himself all the time. And then in the nT He sends HIs Son to die on our behalf. He’s a GREAT God!

You are quite strange Lisa , but all the guff you take Im sure is just evidence of the world hating Jesus in you ! Lol . You are a fundy Sunday gal ! WOW !!!
I do take a lot of guff, that’s for sure, that is quite strange, isn’t it?
 






TempestOfTempo

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Looks like handshakes to me ! Do you really believe this stuff your posting or are you winding us up !
Ill get worried when I see a werewolf drinking a pina colada at Trader Vic’s with perfect hair !
It does look like handshakes. And I dont think every instance of look-alike activity is proof of a grand conspiracy. But when the shoe fits......
Tell you what tho you need an update... because I saw a werewolf buying frozen daiquiri mix at Trader Joe's, and his hair was static!
 






Sanchuniathon

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@SquaredCircle

You brought up many excellent, albeit unknown and/or unspoken of, facts regarding the Bible.

• Money (or rather debt), for instance, is a central theme in the Bible that is oddly never mentioned today. It was, as you stated, the very reason why Jesus was killed - he bothered the Roman Empire and the usurious lenders of the Temple. Economist Michael Hudson wrote a great book on the subject, I recommend the article about it:


• The idea that Jews invented banking and the lending of money with interest isn't accurate. The two concepts originated in Sumer and were practiced and spread by the Canaanite-Phoenicians (and Assyrians) as early as the 8th century BC. Another great article by the same author here:


• When the Babylonians conquered Sumer, they pretty much copied everything - commercial practices (banking, usury, etc) as well as religious scriptures. Hence why the Book of Genesis begins in the same way the Sumerian scriptures did: "In the beginning God created ..." vs "When the gods in their assembly had created ...". It would explain that today's Judaism came to be from Babylon as the Persian Empire (who had made of Babylon its capital) expanded to Canaan in order to get rid of polytheism and to create a Temple State where a tax was to be collected from:


• A most high God with an assembly of minor gods was also found in Canaan (as attested by the Ugarit tablets). Whoever the authors of the Old Testament were, they essentially plagiarized and blended Sumerian, Egyptian, Canaanites, Persian etc belies, stories and concepts to come up with their book - which continued to be edited over the course of centuries by various authors. The Yahweh of the OT for instance is based on El of the Canaanite religion:

https://phoenicia.org/ugarbibl.html.

• I believe Jesus was a real person who opposed the money lenders. To the best of my knowledge, it was Roman Emperor Tiberius who from the island of Capri ordered his killing through the Pharisees. It had the adverse effect with more people following Jesus' way. That is when Rome decided to make of him a "good story" (for lack of better words) based on the Egyptian Horus.

• I should note here that I never understood how Jesus could have been "Jewish" when he was cautioned from going back to the Jews who wanted to stone him after Lazarus raised and when Jesus’ disciples called the Jews “foreigners” (ref.: John’s Gospel)? There is also the discrepancy in Jesus' birth place. There were/are two Bethlehem - one in Judea and one in Galilee.

"The town of Bethlehem of Judea, about six miles south of Jerusalem, has always been considered the birthplace of Jesus. According to the New Testament, Joseph and Mary were living in Bethlehem of Judea at the time of Jesus’ birth and later moved to Nazareth up north. In another account, Joseph and Mary, who was then nine months pregnant, traveled more than 175 kilometers (68 miles) from Nazareth to Bethlehem of Judea, Joseph’s hometown, in order to be counted in a Roman census."


This theory is also supported by Karim El-Koussa:

https://www.lau.edu.lb/news-events/news/archive/was_jesus_phoenician/

• I can't agree more why (evangelical/fundamentalist/etc) Christians today insist on worshipping the violent, murderious and revengeful God of the OT. Wasn't the NT, with a loving/caring/forgiving God, written to get rid of the OT?
 






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