First of all you provided no verse from the Quran which would prove your claims about Angel Michael A.S give me proof from the Quran that one verse doesn't prove anything other than both Angel Gabriel and Angel Michael A.S are exalted angels of God (Peace be upon them)
[/QUOTE]
Actually, you were given dozens and dozens of verses, from the Koran (Quran), you just decided to ignore them. Please see a few examples again below, all of which direct readers of the Koran (Quran) to read, carefully study and apply what it says in the Bible:
References to The Torah and The Gospel in The Koran (Quran)
(more than 30)
Suras
2:53,
2:87-93,
3:1-3,
3:48-50,
4:54,
5:46-50,
6:91-92,
6:154-157,
7:157,
9:111,
11:17,
15:9-10,
17:2-4,
21:48,
23:20,
23:49,
25:35,
28:1-3,
32:23,
35:25-32,
37:117,
40:53,
40:70,
41:45,
42:14-17,
45:16,
46:12,
46:30,
48:29,
53:36-47,
57:25-29,
61:6,
78:2
References to the Koran (Quran) being sent to
CONFIRM what came before it, i.e. the Old Covenant and New Covenant,
NOT to start some new organized religion (some repeats from the list above):
Sura 2:97-98,
3:1-3,
4:47,
5:51,
6:92-94,
6:154-157,
10:37,
12:111,
22:52,
35:31,
46:12,
61:6-7
If you would have taken the time to study what's been shared for your benefit (and everyone else's too), instead of having a knee-jerk reaction and attempting to justify being part of one of the many sects of "Islam" (which is condemned in the Koran (Quran), you would have noticed that indeed, all of those verses have been examined in great detail, confirming they have been altered.
Sura 2:125 and 2:127 ARE in the Bible though, and discussed in much greater detail than in the Koran (Quran), and prove beyond any reasonable doubt that the Roman Catholic Meccans changed the name Isaac in the original Koran to Ishmael, to continue tourism through pagan Mecca, with their new religion that is also condemned in the Koran.
Here are those verses in their original form, translated into English:-
King of kings' Bible - Sura 2:125-127
2:125. Remember We made The House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety and take ye The Station of Abraham (Mt. Moriah -
Gen. 22:2) as a place of prayer and We Covenanted with Abraham and
ISAAC (
Gen. 17:21), that they should sanctify
My House for those who compass it round, or use it as a retreat, or bow, or prostrate themselves (there, in prayer).
2:126. And
remember Abraham said:
"My Lord, make this a City of PEACE (Jeru-SALEM in Hebrew), and feed its people with fruits,- such of them as believe God and in the Last Day." He said: "(Yea), and such as reject Faith,- for a while will I grant them their pleasure, but will soon drive them to the torment of Fire,- an evil destination (indeed)!"
2:127. And remember Abraham and
ISAAC (
Gen. 17:21,
22:2;
Sura 37:101-102,
112-113) raised the foundations of The House (with this prayer): "Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us: For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing.
The name "Mecca" does
NOT mean "city of peace" in Arabic or any other language. The name
JERU-SALEM does, in fact, mean "city of peace", in Hebrew.
Further, the Koran (Quran) itself proves that this alteration took place, and that the Roman Catholic Meccans who altered it didn't realize that there was another reference in the Koran (Quran) proving it was Isaac who Abraham was told to sacrifice,
NOT Ishmael.
37:100. O my Lord! Grant me (Abraham) a righteous (son)!"
37:101. So We gave him the
GOOD NEWS of a boy (
Isaac -
37:112;
Gen. 17) ready to suffer and forbear.
37:102. Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he (Abraham) said:
"O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice (
Gen. 22): now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if God so wills, one practising Patience and Constancy!"
37:103. So when they had both submitted their wills (to God), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
37:104. We called out to him, "O Abraham! (
Gen. 22:11-12)
37:105. Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
37:106. For this was obviously a trial -
37:107. And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice:
37:108. And We left (this blessing) for him among generations (to come) in later times:
37:109. "Peace and salutation to Abraham!"
37:110. Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
37:111. For he was one of our believing Servants.
37:112.
And We gave him the GOOD NEWS of Isaac - a Prophet,- one of the Righteous.
37:113.
We blessed him (Abraham) and Isaac: but of their progeny [the children of Jacob/Israel] are (some) that do right, and (some) that obviously do wrong, to their own souls.
Good news of
ISAAC (which means "laughter" in Hebrew, because Sarah laughed when first receiving the good news prophecy that she would conceive a son in her old age (90 years old).
Of course there are other references in the Koran (Quran) to Abraham sacrificing Isaac as well.
Sura 6:84 And
We gave Abraham Isaac and Jacob: all three
We guided aright.
Sura 38:45-46 And commemorate Our servants Abraham, Isaac (not Ishmael), and Jacob, possessors of Power and Vision. Verily did
We choose
them for a
special purpose - proclaiming the Message of the Hereafter.
They were
in Our sight, truly, of the company of the Elect and the good.
Sura 11:71 And
We gave Abraham the glad tidings
("good news") of Isaac and after him Jacob / Israel (the son of
Isaac).
Sura 15:54 "
Good news" of a son.
Sura 51:28 Glad tidings
("good news") of a son (Isaac - "laughter" in Hebrew) and Sarah laughed being 90 years old (the word Isaac means laughter and because Sarah laughed the child was named "laughter" - Isaac in Hebrew).
We gave the "
good news" means "
news from God" via an angel messenger. No angel was ever sent to Abraham to announce the birth of Ishmael and this is born-out by
all of the Holy Scriptures. He was born because of Sarai (Sarah) not because of God and was born to an Egyptian surrogate-mother, called Hagar.
All of the references of "
good news" refer to
Isaac and
not to Ishmael, proving that the
Meccans changed the name Isaac for Ishmael in Sura 2:125 and 127.
However Ishmael was blessed by God,
later, when Abraham, who loved him, asked God to let Ishmael live before God (
Genesis 17:18-20).
The historical account you are sharing is directly from the Bible, which is the
ONLY historical source we have for the story of Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob/Israel, Ishmael and Hagar. The map below shows exactly where the wilderness of Beersheba is located, near Jerusalem, over 1000 km away from the area that became Mecca over 2000 years later.
View attachment 57884
Anyone who wants to pretend that Abraham sent Hagar and Ishmael off (when Ishmael was 14) with a day's ration of food and water, on a 1000+ km trip over several wilderness areas and the Sarawat mountain range, to go somehow find Mecca, which didn't exist at that time, has completely lost their minds.
Abraham's offspring, from Sarah, Hagar and from Keturah, were all born in and around Jerusalem, the area where Abraham was later buried (in Hebron, specifically).
Ishmael likewise lived and was buried not far from Jerusalem, where his sons were raised. Hagar went to Egypt (her homeland) to find a wife for Ishmael, so they couldn't have been far from Egypt either, as the map and Biblical historical account clearly state.
Identified by whom? By some spiritually blind "Islamic scholar"? There is no reference to "Hejaaz" anywhere in the Bible, which tells us exactly where the wilderness of Paran actually is (see map above). It obviously isn't anywhere near the area that would millenia later become Mecca, otherwise Hagar,
the Egyptian, would not have been able to go to Egypt to find Ishmael a wife, nor would word have reached Ishmael in time for him to make it back to bury Abraham with Isaac, if Ishmael would have lived in the area that is now called Mecca.
As marked on the map above. And this is what Deuteronomy 1:1-2 actually says, along with another map confirming the area between the Jordan
RIVER (which runs from North to South from the Syria-Lebanon border, through the Sea of Galilee, by the West bank, and on to the Dead Sea:
Deuteronomy 1:1-2
1:1 These [be] the words which Moses spoke unto all Israel on
THIS side
(the West-side) Jordan in the wilderness,
in the plain over against the Red [sea],
between Paran, and Tophel, and Laban, and Hazeroth, and Dizahab.
1:2 ([There are] eleven days' [journey] from Horeb by the way of mount Seir unto Kadeshbarnea.)
View attachment 57887
What is today called the "Gulf of Suez" (and the Gulf of Akaba too) is, in fact, part of the Red Sea.
That would depend upon the size of the teenage boy and the size of the bush/shrub. One thing for certain, the two of them certainly didn't travel over 1000 km on a day's ration of food and water, which were small enough for Hagar to carry on one shoulder.
Hagar (the Egyptian) left Abraham and Sarah
TWICE, both times traveling toward Egypt,
NOT the non-existent town of Mecca. The first time was when Hagar was pregnant with Ishmael. Abram/Abraham was approximately 86 years old (see
Gen. 12:4-8, and add 11 years to that from the information provided below) when Ishmael was born:
Genesis 16:3-12
16:3 And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years
in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.
16:4 And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress [Sarai] was despised in her eyes.
16:5 And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong [be] upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the "I AM" judge between me and thee.
16:6 But Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, thy maid [is] in thy hand; do to her as it pleaseth thee.
And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled from her face.
16:7 And the angel of the "I AM" found her by a fountain of water
in the wilderness, BY THE FOUNTAIN IN THE WAY TO SHUR.
16:8 And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maid, whence camest thou? and where wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai.
16:9 And the angel of the "I AM" said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.
16:10 And the angel of the "I AM" said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.
16:11 And the angel of the "I AM" said unto her,
Behold, thou [art] with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the "I AM" hath heard thy affliction.
16:12 And he will be a wild man; his hand [will be] against every man, and every man's hand against him;
and he shall dwell to THE EAST OF ALL HIS BRETHREN (NOT over 1000 km to the South).
The toddler/infant referred to is
ISAAC, born to Abraham and Sarah when Abraham was 100 years old. Please note well that although God blessed Ishmael, God's Covenant was with
ISAAC, because it was Isaac that Abraham took to Mt. Moriah to be sacrificed.
Genesis 17:20-26
17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
17:21
But My Covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
17:22 And He left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.
17:23 And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham's house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him.
17:24 And
Abraham [was] ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.
17:25 And
Ishmael his son [was] thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.
17:26
In the selfsame day was Abraham circumcised, and Ishmael his son.
And here is where Hagar left the second time, when Ishmael was around 14 years of age (a year later, at a party commemorating Isaac being weaned):
Genesis 21:5-12
21:5 And Abraham was an hundred years old, when his son
Isaac was born unto him.
21:6 And Sarah said, God hath made me to laugh, [so that] all that hear will laugh with me.
21:7 And she said, Who would have said unto Abraham, that Sarah should have given children suck? for I have born [him] a son in his old age.
21:8 And the child grew,
and was weaned: and Abraham made a great feast
the [same] day that Isaac was weaned.
21:9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.
21:10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham,
Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, [even] with Isaac.
21:11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.
21:12 And
God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called [(I)saac's sons - Saxons].
21:13 And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he [is] thy seed.
21:14 And Abraham rose up early in the morning,
and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave [it] unto Hagar, putting [it] on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.
21:15 And the water was spent in the bottle, and she cast the child under one of the shrubs.
So we have both the location and the age of everyone involved, and
NONE of them were ever within 1000 km of the area that would not become Mecca for another 2000+ years.
According to whom? Where does it say that Hagar carried Ishmael, as a mother would do with a toddler? Would a mother "cast a toddler under a shrub/bush?
The only way someone could believe Ishmael wasn't 14 years old when he was sent with Hagar is if they believe the Biblical account found in God's Law -- which is the
ONLY historical account there is of Abraham, and upon which the Koran (Quran) is based -- is a lie. There couldn't be anything more overtly satanic than that.
As above please. The Biblical account provided in God's Law is accurate and is the historical account upon which the original Koran (Quran) is actually based and sent to
CONFIRM. The Biblical, historically accurate account provides in-depth details as to where everyone involved lived, died and was buried.
You're confusing Isaac (the infant, who had just been weaned at about 1 year of age) and Ishmael (the 14 year old boy mocking Isaac at the party Abraham gave to celebrate Isaac's weaning).
There is no historical nor archaeological evidence to support the spiritual, geographical and historical absurdity of claiming that Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael went to Mecca. And further, there's nothing in the Koran (Quran) to suggest that.
Thank-you. Agreed. And "Bakkah" can in no way be translated into English as "Mecca", proving Sura 3:96 isn't taking about Mecca, but instead is another reference to the area surrounding Jerusalem (Zion).
The Valley of Bakkah (Arabic) is the Valley of Baca (Hebrew), which refers to the Valley of Tears, near Jerusalem, that Abraham and Isaac passed through, on their way to Mt. Moriah, which Abraham referred to as "Jehovahjireh".
Genesis 22:14 And Abraham called the name of that place
Jehovahjireh: as it is said [to] this day,
In the mount of the "I AM" it shall be seen (the mount of
recognition –
Sura 2:198)
.
Psalm 84:6-7
84:6 [Who] passing through
the valley of Baca ("tears" in Hebrerew) make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools.
84:7 They go from strength to strength, [every one of them]
in Zion (Jerusalem,
NOT Mecca) appeareth before God.
The word "samiri" means "overseer" in English. The overseer who led the Children of Israel astray is identified in the Bible as Dathan.
Learn to rely on Scripture instead of the guesswork offered up by so-called "scholars", all of whom God has repeatedly warned us through His Prophets are "the (spiritually) blind leading the blind"
Nowhere, thank-you. It isn't found anywhere in the Bible nor in the Koran (Quran), either directly or by inference.
On the other hand, Jerusalem (City of Peace) is mentioned in the Bible
OVER 800 TIMES (and over 100 times more as Zion, as well as indirectly at least 28 more times in the Koran (Quran),
IF it's properly read and understood). It's where God said He put
His Name,
His House and where
His Servants are instructed to pray towards.
What does Al-sabt" mean please? It literally translates to "The Sabbath" in English.
Friday (the day before the weekly Sabbath) is referred to in the Bible as the "day of preparation", for people to gather/assemble (verb) the provisions they will need to avoid doing commerce or work on the Sabbath day (the day of rest). The Sabbath begins at sunset Friday, when Friday ends and the Sabbath day begins.
Sura 62:9
https://myislam.org/surah-jumuah/
يَـٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوٓا۟ إِذَا نُودِىَ لِلصَّلَوٰةِ مِن يَوْمِ ٱلْجُمُعَةِ فَٱسْعَوْا۟ إِلَىٰ ذِكْرِ ٱللَّهِ وَذَرُوا۟ ٱلْبَيْعَ ۚ ذَٰلِكُمْ خَيْرٌۭ لَّكُمْ إِن كُنتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ
Yaaa ayyuhal lazeena aamanoo izaa noodiya lis-Salaati miny yawmil Jumu’ati fas’aw ilaa zikril laahi wa zarul bai’; zaalikum khayrul lakum in kuntum ta’lamoon
9. O you who have believed, when [the adhan] is called for the prayer on the day of Jumu’ah [Friday], then
proceed to the remembrance of Allah and leave trade. That is better for you, if you only knew.
The Arabic word “adhan” literally means “
to listen”.
The Commandment from The Torah (Law) that God gave us:
Exodus 20:8-11
20:8
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. [It is NOT wrong to do GOOD deeds on the Sabbath. The Sabbath was made for man. Man was not made for the Sabbath.]
20:9
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
20:10
But the seventh day [is] the Sabbath of the "I AM" thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:
20:11
For [in] six days the "I AM" made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the "I AM" blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Friday in Arabic is written as يوم الجمعة, and it is pronounced as “yawm aljumea.” The last and seventh day of the week, Saturday in Arabic is written as يوم السبت, and it is pronounced as “yawm alsabt.” The names of all the days in the Arabic Language are listed in the simple table.
https://happydays365.org/days-of-the-week/weekdays-in-arabic/#/?playlistId=0&videoId=0
Note: Friday and Saturday are the only two days of the week that include the word “yawm” (day) in them (similar to the Hebrew "yom", which likewise means "day"). So Friday is literally the day to assemble/prepare for Saturday, the Sabbath day.
Imaam Ibn Katheer
, View attachment 57891 said,
"It was named Jumu'ah because it is derived from the word Al-Jam' in Arabic which means to gather
One of the blessings with which the Muslim nation has been endowed is the day of Jumuah or Friday The Messenger of Allah sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam said ldquoThe best day the sun rises over is Friday on it Allah created Aadam On it he was made to enter paradise on it he was expelled from it...
www.islamweb.net
Jummah is the sixth day of the week. According to the Arabian literature, Jummah or
al Jumu’ah are derived from
jama’a-yajma’u-jaman as its root, means
to gather, to collect, to unite, to count, and to combine.
From The Law (Torah) regarding the gathering of two days worth of manna on Friday, the day of preparation/assembly to prepare for the Sabbath:
Exodus 16:4-5
16:4 Then said the "I AM" unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and
gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in My Law, or not.
16:5 And it shall come to pass,
that on the sixth day they shall prepare [that] which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.
Agreed. And they are added purposefully to deceive people into believing Mohammad was a prophet even though he did not prophesy anything, and the Koran (Quran) itself tells us that he, Muhammad (pbuh) was
ONLY a Messenger/Apostle.
Sura 3:144.
Muhammad is no more than an Apostle: many were the Apostles that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to God; but God (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude.
As above please. You now have additional proof that it has been altered, in addition to God telling us that would happen and why He allows it.
God's Word is
NOT just the Koran (Quran), but also the Old Covenant and New Covenant, which came before it. Sura 6:114 says THE BOOK (not the Koran specifically), which is very clearly referring to the Bible, as is confirmed within the verse itself.
Sura 6:114-115
6:114. Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than "I AM"? -
when He it is Who hath sent unto you The Book (Bible), explained in detail." They, to whom We have given The Book, know full well, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth.
NEVER be then one of those who doubt (
Sura 3:1-3,
15:9,
32:23).
6:115. The Word of thy Lord doth find its
FULFILLMENT in TRUTH and in JUSTICE:
none can change His Words: for He is the One who heareth and knoweth all.
Sura 15:9-10
15:9. We have, without doubt, sent down the Message [sent --
PAST TENSE]; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).
15:10. We did send Apostles
BEFORE thee amongst the religious sects (
John 17:21;
Sura 6:159) of old:
Obviously it is talking about the Bible, sent down
BEFORE the Koran (Quran).
Sura 2:97. Say: "Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel - for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by God's Will,
A CONFIRMATION OF WHAT WENT BEFORE, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe,-
Sura 3:3. It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Koran,
CONFIRMING WHAT WENT BEFORE IT and He sent down The Law (of Moses) and The Gospel (of Jesus)
BEFORE THIS, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down The Criterion (of Judgment between right and wrong).
Sura 32:23. We did indeed aforetime give the Book (Torah) to Moses:
be then NOT IN DOUBT of its (The Torah) reaching (THEE): and We made it a Guide to the Children of Israel.
Thank-you. You did well to refrain from trying to explain that which requires no explanation.
God said
NEVER did He and His Messengers send an Apostle or Prophet before thee that Satan didn't throw in some vanity, so He actually means
NEVER, not something else. It certainly doesn't say "never, except the Koran/Quran".
All of the above are baseless assumptions, for which you have no proof.
The reason you err is because you are attempting to prove why the Koran (Quran) is right, and why the Bible is wrong, which you have been
COMMANDED not to do.
Sura 4:150-152
4:150. Those who deny God and His Apostles, and (those who) wish to separate God from His Apostles, saying: "We believe in some but reject others": and (those who) wish to take a course midway,-
4:151. They are in truth (equally) Unbelievers; and we have prepared for Unbelievers a humiliating punishment.
4:152. To those who believe in God and His Apostles and make no distinction between any of the Apostles, We shall soon give their (due) rewards: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
It's really a totally insane approach to geting to know God, considering how many times he has told us in the Koran (Quran) that was sent to confrim the Bible, that we must read The Law and the Gospel, and not be in doubt of them.
Thank-you. Understood.
[/QUOTE]
Well you and I won't agree on one thing because we have different approaches you believe the bible to be the unaltered word of God while Quran is the book that has been altered while I believe the opposite to be true so there really is no point in dragging this conversation
Most of the verses mentioned are taken out of context you are singling out one verse while ignoring the preceding and succeeding verses in sura 2 and 3 those verses are directed at the PEOPLE OF BOOK not Muslims because they used to ask questions about their Bible from Prophet Muhammad S.A.W hence why in previous verses God says "Remember" and speaks in past tense the Arabs weren't given any scripture before nor did they know anything about Judaism or christianity so they are not referring to them. But that does not mean that they are useless for Muslims because we can learn valuable lessons from them. Other verses are mostly talking about Quran but you keep inserting bible in there. Also it is true that the BiBle is from God but what we say is that there have been human errors in its TRANSLATIONS and we do not even have one definitive bible that can be considered THE ORIGINAL BIBLE.
Also, you did not answer my question about Ishmael you completely missed my point what I was saying was that BIBLE itself says that Ishmael A.S was 13 years old when Isaac A.S was born and then weaning of Isaac happened after he was 2-3 years old so Ishmael A.S was 16-17 years old when Hagar and Ishmael A.S were sent away I know their are two different accounts of Hagar being sent away once before birth of Isaac A.S and once after his birth But what I was saying was that in genesis 21 the behavior described of Ishmael A.S is not that of a 17 year old but it feels like the person being described is a toddler or a very young child who cannot take care of himself why did a 17 year old needed to be cast aside to a Bush? Couldn't he sit on the Bush himself? Can a 17 year old not take care of himself he did not help his mother carry any of the supplies either and was simply crying all of the time while his mother was looking for water a young adult of 17 years old does not act like that and he had to be lifted up by hand and given water Hagar was an old woman at that time her young adult son should have been helping her.
Also location of Paran as identified by
Eusebius and Jerome both of whom died before advent of Islam
"(Now) a city beyond
Arabia adjoining the desert of the Saracens [who wander in the desert] through which the children of Israel went moving (camp) from Sinai. Located (we say) beyond Arabia on the south, three days journey to the east of Aila (in the desert Pharan) where Scripture affirms Ismael dwelled, whence the Ishmaelites. It is said (we read) also that (king)
Chodollagomor cut to pieces those in 'Pharan which is in the desert'."
Onomasticon,
So they were also trying to propagate Fake organized religion Islam and fake story of Hagar and Ishmael A.S being sent to Arabia? 200 years before Islam even existed? Proves that it weren't BLIND IMAMS who faked history that point of view existed before the advent of Islam
Sebeos A Bishop also said the same thing about Paran. The "Armenian Bishop and historian, describing the Arab conquest of his time, wrote that the
Arabs "assembled and came out from Paran"
A BISHOP not A BLIND IMAM said that.
It does not matter to me if Isaac A.S was the son who was sacrificed the Quran does not mention the name of the son who was sacrificed and we love and revere both brothers and Quran tells us not to differentiate between the Prophets
2:285 "The Messenger ˹firmly˺ believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, and so do the believers. They ˹all˺ believe in Allah, His angels, His Books, and His messengers. ˹They proclaim,˺ “We make no distinction between any of His messengers.” And they say, “We hear and obey. ˹We seek˺ Your forgiveness, our Lord! And to You ˹alone˺ is the final return.”
The only thing that matters is that Prophet Muhammad Pbuh is the final Prophet
"Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is ever Aware of all things". 33:40
To claim that Bible has not been altered or twisted by the "TRANSLATORS" while accusing Quran of being altered is just not logically right
Mesoratic text of genesis 16:12 (New English version)
"He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility towards all his brothers"
Septaugint text
"He shall be a wild man his hand against all, and the hands of all against him he shall dwell in the presence of all of his brethren"
Both verses have differences in translation and meaning so you cannot say that the Quran was altered and twisted while Bible is the word of God which remains unaltered clearly the translators of Bible have made many mistakes while translating the original text as well which can change the meaning of verses the mesoratic text describes Ishmael A.S in a more..........disrespectful comparing him to a donkey while the Greek Septaugint text is more neutral and respectful.
The samaritan pentateuch also exists which has an additional commandment and 6000 minor differences from the mesoratic text.
The Synoptic Gospels and Gospel of john have quite a lot of differences in their accounts as well
Synoptic Gospels John
Begin with the virgin conception (virgin birth - Matthew and Luke only) | Begin with incarnation of the preexistent Logos/Word |
Jesus visits Jerusalem only in the last week of his life; only one Passover | Jesus active in Judea for much of his mission; three Passovers |
Jesus speaks little of himself | Jesus speaks much of himself, notably in the "I am" statements |
Jesus calls for faith in God | Jesus calls for faith in himself |
Jesus's central theme is the Kingdom of God | Jesus rarely mentions the Kingdom of God |
Jesus preaches repentance and forgiveness | Jesus never mentions repentance and forgiveness only once (John 20:23) |
Jesus speaks in aphorisms and parables | Jesus speaks in lengthy dialogues |
Jesus rarely mentions eternal life | Jesus regularly mentions eternal life |
Jesus shows strong concern for the poor and sinners | Jesus shows little concern for the poor and sinners |
Jesus frequently exorcises demons | Jesus never exorcises demons |
So many differences even in the 4 canonical Gospels there is no mention of the prostitute in the synoptic Gospels The account of ressurection and crucifixion are different in the synoptics
Way to the cross
Matthew 27:32–33
Mark 15:21–22
- Soldiers had Simon of Cyrene carry Jesus' cross.
Luke 23:26–32
- Soldiers had Simon of Cyrene carry Jesus' cross.
- Jesus said to wailing women: 'Don't weep for me, but for yourselves and your children.'
John 19:17
- "They"[241] had Jesus carry the cross.
Crucifixion
Matthew 27:34–36
- Jesus tasted wine mixed with gall, refused to drink more.
- Soldiers crucified Jesus, casted lots for his clothes and kept watch.
- [No time indicated]
Mark 15:23–25
- Jesus refused to drink wine mixed with myrrh.
- Soldiers crucified Jesus and casted lots for his clothes.
- This happened at nine in the morning on the day of Passover (14:12, 15:25).
Luke 23:33–34
John 19:18, 23–24
- [No drink mentioned]
- "They"[241] crucified Jesus and four soldiers each took a garment, casting lots over the undergarment (this fulfilled a prophecy).
- This happened after noon on the Day of Preparation before Passover (19:14, 31)
Mocking
Matthew 27:37–44
- Sign: "This is Jesus, the king of the Jews".
- Passersby, high priests, teachers of the law, elders and both rebels mocked Jesus.
Mark 15:26–32
- Sign: "The king of the Jews".
- Passersby, high priests, teachers of the law and both rebels mocked Jesus.
Luke 23:35–43
John 19:19–22, 25–27
Death
Matthew 27:45–56
- At noon, a three-hour-long darkness came across the land.
- About three, Jesus cried out loud: 'Eli, Eli, lema sabachtani?'
- Bystander offered Jesus wine vinegar, others said: 'Now let's see if Elohim saves him.'
- Jesus cried out again and died.
- Temple curtain ripped, earthquake.
- Tombs broke open, many dead came back to life and appeared to many people in Jerusalem.
- Centurion and soldiers terrified: 'Surely he was the Son of God.'
- Many women from Galilee looked on from a distance, including Mary Magdalene, Mary, mother of James and Joseph[243] and the mother of Zebedee's sons.
Mark 15:33–41
- At noon, a three-hour-long darkness came across the land.
- At three, Jesus cried out loud: 'Eloï, Eloï, lema sabachtani?'
- Bystander offered Jesus wine vinegar and said: 'Now let's see if Elohim comes to take him down.'
- Jesus cried out loud and died.
- Temple curtain ripped.
- Centurion: 'Surely this man was the Son of God.'
- From a distance, the women from Galilee looked on, including Mary Magdalene, Mary, mother of James and Joses and Salome.[243]
Luke 23:44–49
- About noon, a three-hour-long darkness came across the land.
- Temple curtain ripped.
- Jesus called out loud: 'Father, into your hands I commit my spirit,' and died.
- Centurion: 'Surely this was a righteous man.'
- Bystanders beat their chest and went away.
- Those who know him, including the Galilean women, stood at a distance.
John 19:28–37
- [No darkness mentioned, no time indicated]
- To fulfill Scripture, Jesus said: 'I am thirsty.'
- "They" let Jesus drink wine vinegar.
- Jesus said: 'It is finished,' and died.
- [No mention of reaction from bystanders or effect on temple curtain]
- Soldiers broke the legs of the other two crucified men, but not Jesus' legs (this fulfilled a prophecy), but did pierce his side with a spear (this fulfilled another prophecy).
So who is correct? Did Jesus Christ carry his own cross or did Simon the Cyrene carry it for him? If one is right the other must be incorrect right?They can't both be correct at the same time I would rather believe the Synoptic Bibles to be true which were written before John and also by the law of witnesses since there are 3 people agreeing on something it should be the one closest to truth. Coincidently Most support and I Say MOST not all support of Trinity and Jesus's divinity/immortality/Christ+Holy Spirit comes from the Gospel of John not the Synoptics . Also Jesus Christ spoke Galilean Aramaic but the new testament gospels were written in Greek so we don't even have the Gospels in their original language while Quran remains preserved in its original language so translation errors from Aramaic to Greek are more likely in the new testament.
Also isn't it ironic that the same Organized Religion you claim to hate and say is man-made doctrine brought you the Canonical New Testament that you are now using to support your beliefs. Who approved which books will be considered reliable and canon and included in the New Testament? "THE CHURCH" The Same CHURCH you hate. You say there is no mosque, synagogue or Church in the Bible no clergy no AUTHORITIES but then you use the same books that were declared by these INSTITUITIONS as being true and word of God. Where is the proof that THE CHURCH AUTHORITIES which according to you not me have spread the false ORGANIZED RELIGION did not try to hide or TWIST the meaning of the bible. After all According to YOU not ME THE CHURCH and its AUTHORITIES are not to be TRUSTED and are RESPONSIBLE for spreading the false ORGANIZED RELIGION. THE SAME CHURCH that declared which books should be a part of the new testament WAS THE SAME CHURCH that turned CHRISTIANITY into an ORGANIZED RELIGION. Then if they were wrong about the organized religion part their canonical gospels should not be considered reliable either by your own logic. Before you counter this by saying the new testament was compiled by the apostles in their lifetimes sure I will believe that but the actual CANONIZATION happened after their death even if it happened in their lifetimes the closest predicted date is somewhere between 33-66 A.D while the Quran also was compiled within 3 years of Prophet Muhammad's pbuh death and the standardization in 650 A.D is comparable to the different versions of biblical texts.
Jerusalem was city of peace correct it was a sacred place of worship which is confirmed by Quran but also in the Quran we are ordered to change the Qibla from Jerusalem to Kaaba in Mecca if Jerusalem was not a sacred place of worship we wouldn't have the dispute of Palestine today.
The foolish among the people will say, "What has turned them away from their qiblah,1 which they used to face?"Say, "To Allah belongs the east and the west. He guides whom He wills to a straight path." And thus We have made you a median [i.e., just] community that you will be witnesses over the people and the Messenger will be a witness over you. And We did not make the qiblah which you used to face except that We might make evident who would follow the Messenger from who would turn back on his heels.1 And indeed, it is difficult except for those whom Allah has guided. And never would Allah have caused you to lose your faith [i.e., your previous prayers]. Indeed Allah is, to the people, Kind and Merciful.We have certainly seen the turning of your face, [O Muḥammad], toward the heaven, and We will surely turn you to a qiblah with which you will be pleased. So turn your face [i.e., yourself] toward al-Masjid al-Ḥarām.1 And wherever you [believers] are, turn your faces [i.e., yourselves] toward it [in prayer]. Indeed, those who have been given the Scripture [i.e., the Jews and the Christians] well know that it is the truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do. surah Al-baqara:142-144
Another reason why I and many Muslims do not read or trust the Bible as much as Quran is how some Biblical Accounts of Prophets are very disrespectful
Prophet Solomon accused of idolatory in the bible in 1 Kings 11
11 King Solomon loved many foreign women in addition to Pharaoh’s daughter. He loved Hittite women and women from Moab, Ammon, Edom, and Sidon. 2 They came from the nations about which the Lord had said to the people of Israel, “Never intermarry with them. They will surely tempt you to follow their gods.” But Solomon was obsessed with their love. 3 He had 700 wives who were princesses and 300 wives who were concubines.[
a] 4 In his old age, his wives tempted him to follow other gods. He was no longer committed to the Lord his God as his father David had been. 5 Solomon followed Astarte (the goddess of the Sidonians) and Milcom (the disgusting idol of the Ammonites). 6 So Solomon did what the Lord considered evil. He did not wholeheartedly follow the Lord as his father David had done. 7 Then Solomon built an illegal worship site on the hill east of Jerusalem for Chemosh (the disgusting idol of Moab) and for Molech (the disgusting idol of the Ammonites). 8 He did these things for each of his foreign wives who burned incense and sacrificed to their gods.
This accusation is absent from the Quran and guess what the Scholars have to say about this
"In the branch of literary analysis that examines the Bible, called higher criticism, the story of Solomon falling into idolatry by the influence of Pharaoh's daughter and his other foreign wives is "customarily seen as the handiwork of the 'deuteronomistic historian(s)'", who are held to have written, compiled, or edited texts to legitimize the reforms of Hezekiah's great-grandson, King Josiah who reigned from about 641 to 609 BCE (over 280 years after Solomon's death according to Bible scholars).[37] Scholarly consensus in this field holds that "Solomon's wives/women were introduced in the 'Josianic' (customarily Dtr) edition of Kings as a theological construct to blame the schism [between Judah and the Northern Kingdom of Israel] on his misdeeds"
Even the Biblical Scholars agree that this was a "Theological Construction"
Similarly no mention of Eve being the Temptress in Quran or The mention of Prophet Noah A.S being drunken and naked or Prophet Abraham A.S leaving his son and wife helpless in wilderness because he was told by his other wife . These accounts make the Prophets appear like dead beat dads or in the case of Solomon A.S as someone who did not care about God's law and was too obsessed with "love". The Bible says Solomon had close to 1000 partners and he was "obsessed" with love. I don't know about you but I would feel wierd if my religious books described God's Prophets who were the best of his men in this way. This is worse than the 72 virgins everyone uses against Muslims and Prophet Muhammad pbuh even though neither they nor Prophet Muhammad pbuh's Marriage to Ayesha R.A are in the Quran. Further The Bible also says that Prophet Aaron was also involved in the making and worship of the Golden Calf while the Quran does not mention this. Clearly Quran is more respectful towards the Prophets A.S in its description and actually depicts them as role models who should be revered and followed.
Peace.
Sorry If I offended you with the Harsh tone but this is a sensitive topic so I had to be harsh I have nothing against you but If you claim that Quran is altered or twisted you will definitely get a similiar response from any Muslim
May Allah Guide You