Do all religions lead us to God?

SnowFall

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Islam has many proofs. Have you ever looked into them? I made a thread showing only a few a little while ago. Check it out if you like.



Jesus himself denies divinity.
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. (Mark 10:18)

Did you know Jesus prayed to God with his head on the ground?
"he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, My Father,"... (Matthew 26:39)
Does this sound like a Lord or a servant?

It is not my desire to chastise you, only to open your eyes. But honestly none will find truth until the Almighty allows it.


Sad, because i think you would have really liked the voice. He's one of my favorite reciters. Granted the video 19 minutes long if you listened to the chapter in its entirety, but no one asked you to do that.


Muslims do not worship Mary, nor Jesus. Indeed God is one, alone without partner.

May God guide you.

Peace.
Christ is God in human form!
John 14:7-10
If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.” Philip *said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?r
Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

John 16:15
All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.


Luke 22:69
But from now on the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the power of God.”

Luke 22:70
And they all said, “Are You the Son of God, then?” And He said to them, “Yes, I am.”

John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”

John 10:37
If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;

John 10:38
but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.”

John 12:45
He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me.


Matthew 16:16
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


John 1:2
He was in the beginning with God.

Romans 1:4
who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord,

Romans 9:5
whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.

Colossians 1:15
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Colossians 2:9
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

Also we don’t worship the Holy Virgin, we venerate her.

one of the biggest issues I have with the teachings of Islam is they think our Holy Trinity is The Father, The mother and The Son.
The Holy Trinity actually is God The Father, God The Son and God The Holy Spirit.

peace to you also.
 






Daze

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Christ is God in human form!
John 14:7-10
If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.” Philip *said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?r
Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

John 16:15
All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.


Luke 22:69
But from now on the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the power of God.”

Luke 22:70
And they all said, “Are You the Son of God, then?” And He said to them, “Yes, I am.”

John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”

John 10:37
If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;

John 10:38
but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.”

John 12:45
He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me.


Matthew 16:16
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


John 1:2
He was in the beginning with God.

Romans 1:4
who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord,

Romans 9:5
whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.

Colossians 1:15
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Colossians 2:9
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
I can quote just as many verses from your own book that state the opposite. Have you given thought to this?

Why is the Bible so contradictory? This is the problem, your eternal soul depends on that book and instead of asking the Creator for guidance, most will arrogantly reject any narrative that conflicts with the one they were indoctrinated with from the cradle. Its sad to be perfectly honest.

What is this life of 100 years compared to the next that is endless? Do you think those who spent their entire life in violation of the first commandment will ever see heaven?

The problem is you won't reflect on none of this until judgement day, when its too late.

Also we don’t worship the Holy Virgin, we venerate her.
If veneration means praise what would you call an entire chapter in the Quran named after Mary?
You know, that video above that you refused to push play on?

Why is that? Are your demons afraid some truth might get through?


one of the biggest issues I have with the teachings of Islam is they think our Holy Trinity is The Father, The mother and The Son.
The Holy Trinity actually is God The Father, God The Son and God The Holy Spirit.
peace to you also.
Nope, i told you before and feel free to ask any Muslim on the planet. We do not worship Mary or Jesus. The example of them to God is that of Adam and Eve.

The God of Islam is God the Father alone. Yes no doubt you will not accept this. If you did you might actually have to admit Muslims are upon the truth worshiping God alone, without partner. You know, kinda like the first commandment tells you to do.


Sadly, i can see this will go no where. Think of me on judgement day when the angels ask.. Did there not come to you a warner?
 






arhur12

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Sure, but Catholicism can be traced back to Christ! from Christ to St Peter the first Pope.

I’ve no interest in attacking Muslims personally but they are simply wrong!

Muslims may call Christ Righteous but they deny his divinity and that he died for our sins.

they may have a chapter on Mary but they don’t honor her as Queen of Heaven and earth!

I’m sorry but I’m not going to watch the video you have posted.
So Christians are ok with Jews who consider Jesus Christ PBUH a false Prophet but hate Muslims who venerate Jesus Christ PBUH.
Yes we don't believe he was divine because There is only one God worthy of worship God the Father in the Bible also we don't consider him to be "just" a "righteous man" the concept of Prophets in Islam is very different from Bible. Prophets aren't just people who prophesize by the grace of God they are role models for us and we can't call ourselves Muslims if we do not believe and venerate them they are innocent and free from sin. Muslims might actually kill someone for blasphemy against Jesus Christ PBUH and we do venerate Mary Pbuh and consider her one of the Queens of Jannah (heaven)

"The best women of the world are four: Mary the daughter of Heli, Aasiyah the wife of Pharaoh, Khadeejah bint Khuwaylid (The wife of the Prophet Muhammad), and Fatimah, the daughter of Muhammad, the Messenger of God.” (Al-Tirmidhi)
 






SnowFall

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I can quote just as many verses from your own book that state the opposite. Have you given thought to this?

Why is the Bible so contradictory? This is the problem, your eternal soul depends on that book and instead of asking the Creator for guidance, most will arrogantly reject any narrative that conflicts with the one they were indoctrinated with from the cradle. Its sad to be perfectly honest.

What is this life of 100 years compared to the next that is endless? Do you think those who spent their entire life in violation of the first commandment will ever see heaven?

The problem is you won't reflect on none of this until judgement day, when its too late.



If veneration means praise what would you call an entire chapter in the Quran named after Mary?
You know, that video above that you refused to push play on?

Why is that? Are your demons afraid some truth might get through?




Nope, i told you before and feel free to ask any Muslim on the planet. We do not worship Mary or Jesus. The example of them to God is that of Adam and Eve.

The God of Islam is God the Father alone. Yes no doubt you will not accept this. If you did you might actually have to admit Muslims are upon the truth worshiping God alone, without partner. You know, kinda like the first commandment tells you to do.


Sadly, i can see this will go no where. Think of me on judgement day when the angels ask.. Did there not come to you a warner?
Well for one the Holy Bible doesn’t contradict itself at all, people misunderstand it!

same goes for the scripture you could quote, without understanding the whole context of what’s happening you will be prone to ignorance, which unfortunately, it seems you are.

Catholics (and other Christians in general) do pray to God and we receive guidance from him.
and everything points to Christianity being the true way to God as Christ himself said: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

Christians don’t reject the first commandment in fact we worship God completely and utterly in his three holy forms, The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

I’d argue you are rejecting God by rejecting Christ! Christ died on the Cross for the sins of all people, including you and by rejecting him you reject the pardon for your sins and you reject God himself.

do Muslims consider The holy Virgin as the mother of God and Queen of heaven and earth? For as Saint Louis De Montfort said in his book true devotion to Mary: “Just as, in the natural and corporal generation of children, there is a father and a mother, so in the supernatural and spiritual generation there is a Father, who is God, and a Mother, who is Mary. All the true children of God, the predestinate, have God for their Father, and Mary for their Mother. He who has not Mary for his Mother, has not God for his Father. This is the reason why the reprobate, such as heretics, schismatics, and others, who hate our Blessed Lady, or regard her with contempt and indifference, have not God for their Father, however much they boast of it, simply because they have not Mary for their Mother. For if they had her for their Mother, they would love and honour her as a true and good child naturally loves and honours the mother who has given him life. The most infallible and indubitable sign by which we may distinguish a heretic, a man of bad doctrine, a reprobate, from one of the predestinate, is that the heretic and the reprobate have nothing but contempt and indifference for our Blessed Lady, endeavouring by their words and examples to diminish the praise and love of her openly or hiddenly, and sometimes under specious pretexts. Alas! God the Father has not told Mary to dwell in them, for they are Esaus.”

you think by just calling Christ righteous but denying him or the sacrifice he made is honoring him? Or by downplaying the holiness of Mary, and in the process daring to compare her with other women is honoring her?

also I mean that it is falsely taught in Islam (If I’m correct) that Catholics Worship Mary and she is part of the Holy Trinity which is completely false.

if I do have demons in me I know a Catholic priest will remove them, I doubt Islam has the same power! Also I think you need to be careful of demons yourself considering you are following a heretic like Mohammad.

Also my friend, perhaps you shouldn’t be so presumptuous that you are worthy of heaven! I don’t know about Islam but Christians know arrogance is a big sin.

finally I hope you realise that as much as I disagree with Islam, I do not hate you or any Muslim.
 






SnowFall

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So Christians are ok with Jews who consider Jesus Christ PBUH a false Prophet but hate Muslims who venerate Jesus Christ PBUH.
Yes we don't believe he was divine because There is only one God worthy of worship God the Father in the Bible also we don't consider him to be "just" a "righteous man" the concept of Prophets in Islam is very different from Bible. Prophets aren't just people who prophesize by the grace of God they are role models for us and we can't call ourselves Muslims if we do not believe and venerate them they are innocent and free from sin. Muslims might actually kill someone for blasphemy against Jesus Christ PBUH and we do venerate Mary Pbuh and consider her one of the Queens of Jannah (heaven)

"The best women of the world are four: Mary the daughter of Heli, Aasiyah the wife of Pharaoh, Khadeejah bint Khuwaylid (The wife of the Prophet Muhammad), and Fatimah, the daughter of Muhammad, the Messenger of God.” (Al-Tirmidhi)
well for one I don’t hate Muslims or Jews but I do have a problem with what they teach.

secondly you reject God and Christ if you deny Christ’s divinity.

Thirdly there is only one Queen of heaven my friend and put her on the same level as other women is wrong.

Finally if you murder someone for blasphemy against Christ you completely reject Christ’s teachings.
 






Daze

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Well for one the Holy Bible doesn’t contradict itself at all
I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30

“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18


Honestly if the Bible was not contradictory you would have no Unitarians/Trinitarians. You would only have one narrative.

But due to mankind's edits you have 45,000 Christian sects today. All pointing to the Bible as thee source, much like you and Tidal who have some radically different beliefs.

same goes for the scripture you could quote, without understanding the whole context of what’s happening you will be prone to ignorance, which unfortunately, it seems you are.
Ignoring the insult, "prone to ignorance".. why does the one you worship never ask for it?

Why does the one you worship, worship another?
One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God. (Luke 6:12)


Catholics (and other Christians in general) do pray to God and we receive guidance from him.
You may believe this, but your god has 3 inseparable names with 3 distinctly different personalities.

I mean Jesus talks to God in the Bible and you still say they are one entity.

Jesus even asks God why he has forsaken him.. your beliefs are just.. inconceivable.


Christians don’t reject the first commandment in fact we worship God completely and utterly in his three holy forms, The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Once again, you worship the created prophet Jesus.

For as the Father has life in Himself, so
he has granted the Son to have life in himself. (John 5:26)

(Take notice that i am only quoting your book here throughout, not mine)

I’d argue you are rejecting God by rejecting Christ! Christ died on the Cross for the sins of all people, including you and by rejecting him you reject the pardon for your sins and you reject God himself.
So, god died? Killed by his own creation even.

This is something that takes years of indoctrination to accept.


also I mean that it is falsely taught in Islam (If I’m correct) that Catholics Worship Mary and she is part of the Holy Trinity which is completely false.
Islam does not teach anything about Catholicism specifically. But when you call Mary "mother of god", to my own ears sounds incredibly blasphemous.


if I do have demons in me I know a Catholic priest will remove them, I doubt Islam has the same power! Also I think you need to be careful of demons yourself considering you are following a heretic like Mohammad.
Idk if you know but i was a Christian for 30 years before i converted to Islam.
While that was a main selling point for me, direct connection to God himself.

In Islam I don't need a priest or a prophet to reach him.


Also my friend, perhaps you shouldn’t be so presumptuous that you are worthy of heaven! I don’t know about Islam but Christians know arrogance is a big sin.
I am in perfect agreement that arrogance is evil. Yet never have i claimed that I'm going to heaven. I could be the most pious man on the planet today and die in a strip club tomorrow. None of us know what kind of ending we will receive. Why we seek Gods guidance daily.

What do you think of the man who bows before a stone statue. Do you think he will enter heaven? What would you say if a Christian called Moses his god, or Noah, or Solomon? Do you think they will enter into heaven?

Will God somehow not mind if his followers worshiped his prophets?

Imagine if you met a man on judgement day who said throughout his life the prophet Abraham was god incarnate. What do you think will happen to him?


Obviously this is meant for inner reflection. As i implied earlier, you need to ask God for guidance.

These back and forth posts don't help either one of us because it comes down to ego. As i said, Islam has the proofs. Why are you hesitant to look into them?


finally I hope you realise that as much as I disagree with Islam, I do not hate you or any Muslim.
I suggest you take an actual look at Islam with an open heart as alot of Catholics tend to convert to it.

Alas God guides whom he wills.
 






SnowFall

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I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30

“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18


Honestly if the Bible was not contradictory you would have no Unitarians/Trinitarians. You would only have one narrative.

But due to mankind's edits you have 45,000 Christian sects today. All pointing to the Bible as thee source, much like you and Tidal who have some radically different beliefs.


Ignoring the insult, "prone to ignorance".. why does the one you worship never ask for it?

Why does the one you worship, worship another?
One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God. (Luke 6:12)



You may believe this, but your god has 3 inseparable names with 3 distinctly different personalities.

I mean Jesus talks to God in the Bible and you still say they are one entity.

Jesus even asks God why he has forsaken him.. your beliefs are just.. inconceivable.



Once again, you worship the created prophet Jesus.

For as the Father has life in Himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself. (John 5:26)

(Take notice that i am only quoting your book here throughout, not mine)


So, god died? Killed by his own creation even.

This is something that takes years of indoctrination to accept.




Islam does not teach anything about Catholicism specifically. But when you call Mary "mother of god", to my own ears sounds incredibly blasphemous.




Idk if you know but i was a Christian for 30 years before i converted to Islam.
While that was a main selling point for me, direct connection to God himself.

In Islam I don't need a priest or a prophet to reach him.



I am in perfect agreement that arrogance is evil. Yet never have i claimed that I'm going to heaven. I could be the most pious man on the planet today and die in a strip club tomorrow. None of us know what kind of ending we will receive. Why we seek Gods guidance daily.

What do you think of the man who bows before a stone statue. Do you think he will enter heaven? What would you say if a Christian called Moses his god, or Noah, or Solomon? Do you think they will enter into heaven?

Will God somehow not mind if his followers worshiped his prophets?

Imagine if you met a man on judgement day who said throughout his life the prophet Abraham was god incarnate. What do you think will happen to him?


Obviously this is meant for inner reflection. As i implied earlier, you need to ask God for guidance.

These back and forth posts don't help either one of us because it comes down to ego. As i said, Islam has the proofs. Why are you hesitant to look into them?



I suggest you take an actual look at Islam with an open heart as alot of Catholics tend to convert to it.

Alas God guides whom he wills.
It’s been a while Saracen, but I’m back now.

1. once again, there is no contradiction in the Holy Bible, only people ignorantly misunderstanding it. Here’s the answer to your argumenthttps://answersingenesis.org/who-is-god/face-to-face/

2. the Holy Trinity isn’t a contradiction at all and it is absolutely consistent.

3. there are three major forms of Christianity, Catholicism, Orthodox and Protestant. Catholicism has the only claim to the early church as it comes from st Peter. Thethee bunch of Christian sects come from Protestant splinter groups, which are heretical.

4.https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-pray-God.html also Jesus had to fulfil the prophecies on earth

5.God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are One God, three persons.
https://www.stbensduluth.org/blog/fr-joel-hastings/why-does-jesus-say-he-is-forsaken also Christ cried out “why have you forsaken me?” To fulfil the mission and suffer for our sins. Everything from the mental and emotional suffering in the garden, the the physical torture and suffering to hopelessness and sorrow he felt were part of the price to be paid for the sins of the world. This is why Christ said “it is accomplished” afterwards.

6. I think you mean Son of God Jesus Christ.
I’ve already given you scripture that says Christ and God are one and the same.

7. No it takes much ignorance and lies taught by a heretical group (like Islam) to misunderstand

Christ the son came to earth to fulfil the laws and the prophecies and died on the Cross as a sacrifice for the sins of the whole world. He allowed himself to be crucified for when St. Peter told Christ to flee because of him being killed he said “But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art a stumbling-block unto me: for thou mindest not the things of God, but the things of men.”
Christ shed his blood for us and then by his own power rose from the dead three days later.

8. The Holy Virgin Mary is the Mother of God for she carried and gave birth to Christ the Son. She is also the ark of the new covenant and the bridge between God and men.

9. you don’t need a priest to be connected to God in Catholicism either

10. Does he worship the statue? If so he’d be an idolater. If he called anyone but God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit a God he’d be a heretic.

of course, it’s a sin to worship prophets, it’s just a good job Catholics only worship God.

11. show me these “proofs” of Islam and I’ll show you the falsehoods and lies of Islam.

12. On the contrary, I’d say Muslims NEED to convert to Catholicism. The only Catholics who would convert to Islam would be worldly and unbelieving ones.

You need to repent, convert and pray the Rosary my friend and leave the lies of the heretic Mohammad behind, for as St. Louis De Montfort says in his book True Devotion to Mary:
“God, then, wishes to reveal and discover Mary, the masterpiece of His hands, in these latter times:
§ 1. Because she hid herself in this world, and put herself lower than the dust by her profound humility, having obtained of God and of His Apostles and Evangelists that she should not be made manifest.
§ 2. Because, being the masterpiece of the hands of God, as well here below by grace as in heaven by glory, He wishes to be glorified and praised in her by those who are living upon the earth.
§ 3. As she is the aurora which precedes and discovers the Sun of Justice, who is Jesus Christ, she ought to be recognised and perceived, in order that Jesus Christ may be so.
§ 4. Being the way by which Jesus Christ came to us the first time, she will also be the way by which He will come the second time, though not in the same manner.
§ 5. Being the sure means and the straight and immaculate way to go to Jesus Christ, and to find Him perfectly, it is by her that the holy souls, who are to shine forth especially in sanctity, have to find our Lord. He who shall find Mary shall find life; that is, Jesus Christ, who is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. But no one can find Mary who does not seek her; and no one can seek her, who does not know her: for we cannot seek or desire an unknown object. It is necessary, then, for the greater knowledge and glory of the Most Holy Trinity, that Mary should be more known than ever.
§ 6. Mary must shine forth more than ever in mercy, in might, and in grace, in these latter times: in mercy, to bring back and lovingly receive the poor strayed sinners who shall be converted and shall return to the Catholic Church; in might, against the enemies of God, idolaters, schismatics, Mahometans (Islam), Jews, and souls hardened in impiety, who shall rise in terrible revolt against God to seduce all those who shall be contrary to them, and to make them fall by promises and threats; and, finally, she must shine forth in grace, in order to animate and sustain the valiant soldiers and faithful servants of Jesus Christ, who shall do battle for His interests.
§ 7. And, lastly, Mary must be terrible to the devil and his crew, as an army ranged in battle, principally in these latter times, because the devil, knowing that he has but little time, and now less than ever, to destroy souls, will every day redouble his efforts and his combats. He will presently raise up new persecutions, and will put terrible snares before the faithful servants and true children of Mary, whom it gives him more trouble to surmount than it does to conquer others.
51. It is principally of these last and cruel persecutions of the devil, which shall go on increasing daily till the reign of Antichrist, that we ought to understand that first and celebrated prediction and curse of God, pronounced in the terrestrial Paradise against the serpent. It is to our purpose to explain this here, for the glory of the most holy Virgin, for the salvation of her children, and for the confusion of the devil. Inimicitias ponam inter te et mulierem, et semen tuum et semen illius; ipsa conteret caput tuum, et tu insidiaberis calcaneo ejus (Gen. 3:15),—“I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed; she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.”
52. God has never made or formed but one enmity; but it is an irreconcilable one, which shall endure and develop even to the end. It is between Mary, His worthy Mother, and the devil,—between the children and the servants of the Blessed Virgin and the children and instruments of Lucifer. The most terrible of all the enemies which God has set up against the devil is His holy Mother, Mary. He has inspired her, even since the days of the earthly Paradise, though she existed then only in His idea, with so much hatred against that cursed enemy of God, with so much industry in unveiling the malice of that old serpent, with so much power to conquer, to overthrow, and to crush that proud impious rebel, that he fears her not only more than all Angels and men, but in some sense more than God Himself. It is not that the anger, the hatred, and the power of God are not infinitely greater than those of the Blessed Virgin, for the perfections of Mary are limited, but it is, first, because Satan, being proud, suffers infinitely more from being beaten and punished by a little and humble handmaid of God, and her humility humbles him more than the Divine power; and, secondly, because God has given Mary such a great power against the devils, that, as they have often been obliged to confess, in spite of themselves, by the mouths of the possessed, they fear one of her sighs for a soul more than the prayers of all the Saints, and one of her menaces against them more than all other torments.
53. What Lucifer has lost by pride, Mary has gained by humility. What Eve has damned and lost by disobedience, Mary has saved by obedience. Eve, in obeying the serpent, has destroyed all her children together with herself, and has delivered them to him; Mary, being perfectly faithful to God, has saved all her children and servants together with herself, and has consecrated them to His Majesty.
54. God has not only set an enmity but enmities, not simply between Mary and the devil, but between the race of the holy Virgin and the race of the devil; that is to say, God has set enmities, antipathies, and secret hatreds between the true children and the servants of Mary, and the children and servants of the devil. They do not love each other mutually. They have no inward correspondence with each other. The children of Belial, the slaves of Satan, the friends of the world (for it is the same thing), have always up to this time persecuted those who belong to our Blessed Lady, and will in future persecute them more than ever; just as of old Cain persecuted his brother Abel, and Esau his brother Jacob, who are the figures of the reprobate and the predestinate. But the humble Mary will always have the victory over that proud spirit, and so great a victory that she will go the length of crushing his head, where his pride dwells. She will always discover the malice of the serpent. She will always counterwork his infernal mines and dissipate his diabolical counsels, and will guarantee even to the end of time her faithful servants from his cruel claw. But the power of Mary over all the devils will especially break out in the latter times, when Satan will lay his snares against her heel; that is to say, her humble slaves and her poor children, whom she will raise up to make war against him. They shall be little and poor in the world’s esteem, and abased before all, like the heel, trodden underfoot and persecuted as the heel is by the other members of the body. But in return for this, they shall be rich in the grace of God, which Mary shall distribute to them abundantly. They shall be great and exalted before God in sanctity, superior to all other creatures by their animated zeal, and leaning so strongly on the divine succour, that, with the humility of their heel, in union with Mary, they shall crush the head of the devil, and cause Jesus Christ to triumph.”
 






SnowFall

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No, you glorify God and his sovereignty, and restore Jesus's dignity (and message), if you deny the obviously false notion of him being divine (and worse, coequal with God).
You need to stop denying the diving of Christ who is God the Son.

Islam is heresy, my friend. Repent.
 






Daze

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It’s been a while Saracen, but I’m back now.

1. once again, there is no contradiction in the Holy Bible, only people ignorantly misunderstanding it. Here’s the answer to your argumenthttps://answersingenesis.org/who-is-god/face-to-face/

2. the Holy Trinity isn’t a contradiction at all and it is absolutely consistent.

3. there are three major forms of Christianity, Catholicism, Orthodox and Protestant. Catholicism has the only claim to the early church as it comes from st Peter. Thethee bunch of Christian sects come from Protestant splinter groups, which are heretical.

4.https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-pray-God.html also Jesus had to fulfil the prophecies on earth

5.God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are One God, three persons.
https://www.stbensduluth.org/blog/fr-joel-hastings/why-does-jesus-say-he-is-forsaken also Christ cried out “why have you forsaken me?” To fulfil the mission and suffer for our sins. Everything from the mental and emotional suffering in the garden, the the physical torture and suffering to hopelessness and sorrow he felt were part of the price to be paid for the sins of the world. This is why Christ said “it is accomplished” afterwards.

6. I think you mean Son of God Jesus Christ.
I’ve already given you scripture that says Christ and God are one and the same.

7. No it takes much ignorance and lies taught by a heretical group (like Islam) to misunderstand

Christ the son came to earth to fulfil the laws and the prophecies and died on the Cross as a sacrifice for the sins of the whole world. He allowed himself to be crucified for when St. Peter told Christ to flee because of him being killed he said “But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art a stumbling-block unto me: for thou mindest not the things of God, but the things of men.”
Christ shed his blood for us and then by his own power rose from the dead three days later.

8. The Holy Virgin Mary is the Mother of God for she carried and gave birth to Christ the Son. She is also the ark of the new covenant and the bridge between God and men.

9. you don’t need a priest to be connected to God in Catholicism either

10. Does he worship the statue? If so he’d be an idolater. If he called anyone but God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit a God he’d be a heretic.

of course, it’s a sin to worship prophets, it’s just a good job Catholics only worship God.

11. show me these “proofs” of Islam and I’ll show you the falsehoods and lies of Islam.

12. On the contrary, I’d say Muslims NEED to convert to Catholicism. The only Catholics who would convert to Islam would be worldly and unbelieving ones.

You need to repent, convert and pray the Rosary my friend and leave the lies of the heretic Mohammad behind, for as St. Louis De Montfort says in his book True Devotion to Mary:
“God, then, wishes to reveal and discover Mary, the masterpiece of His hands, in these latter times:
§ 1. Because she hid herself in this world, and put herself lower than the dust by her profound humility, having obtained of God and of His Apostles and Evangelists that she should not be made manifest.
§ 2. Because, being the masterpiece of the hands of God, as well here below by grace as in heaven by glory, He wishes to be glorified and praised in her by those who are living upon the earth.
§ 3. As she is the aurora which precedes and discovers the Sun of Justice, who is Jesus Christ, she ought to be recognised and perceived, in order that Jesus Christ may be so.
§ 4. Being the way by which Jesus Christ came to us the first time, she will also be the way by which He will come the second time, though not in the same manner.
§ 5. Being the sure means and the straight and immaculate way to go to Jesus Christ, and to find Him perfectly, it is by her that the holy souls, who are to shine forth especially in sanctity, have to find our Lord. He who shall find Mary shall find life; that is, Jesus Christ, who is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. But no one can find Mary who does not seek her; and no one can seek her, who does not know her: for we cannot seek or desire an unknown object. It is necessary, then, for the greater knowledge and glory of the Most Holy Trinity, that Mary should be more known than ever.
§ 6. Mary must shine forth more than ever in mercy, in might, and in grace, in these latter times: in mercy, to bring back and lovingly receive the poor strayed sinners who shall be converted and shall return to the Catholic Church; in might, against the enemies of God, idolaters, schismatics, Mahometans (Islam), Jews, and souls hardened in impiety, who shall rise in terrible revolt against God to seduce all those who shall be contrary to them, and to make them fall by promises and threats; and, finally, she must shine forth in grace, in order to animate and sustain the valiant soldiers and faithful servants of Jesus Christ, who shall do battle for His interests.
§ 7. And, lastly, Mary must be terrible to the devil and his crew, as an army ranged in battle, principally in these latter times, because the devil, knowing that he has but little time, and now less than ever, to destroy souls, will every day redouble his efforts and his combats. He will presently raise up new persecutions, and will put terrible snares before the faithful servants and true children of Mary, whom it gives him more trouble to surmount than it does to conquer others.
51. It is principally of these last and cruel persecutions of the devil, which shall go on increasing daily till the reign of Antichrist, that we ought to understand that first and celebrated prediction and curse of God, pronounced in the terrestrial Paradise against the serpent. It is to our purpose to explain this here, for the glory of the most holy Virgin, for the salvation of her children, and for the confusion of the devil. Inimicitias ponam inter te et mulierem, et semen tuum et semen illius; ipsa conteret caput tuum, et tu insidiaberis calcaneo ejus (Gen. 3:15),—“I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed; she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.”
52. God has never made or formed but one enmity; but it is an irreconcilable one, which shall endure and develop even to the end. It is between Mary, His worthy Mother, and the devil,—between the children and the servants of the Blessed Virgin and the children and instruments of Lucifer. The most terrible of all the enemies which God has set up against the devil is His holy Mother, Mary. He has inspired her, even since the days of the earthly Paradise, though she existed then only in His idea, with so much hatred against that cursed enemy of God, with so much industry in unveiling the malice of that old serpent, with so much power to conquer, to overthrow, and to crush that proud impious rebel, that he fears her not only more than all Angels and men, but in some sense more than God Himself. It is not that the anger, the hatred, and the power of God are not infinitely greater than those of the Blessed Virgin, for the perfections of Mary are limited, but it is, first, because Satan, being proud, suffers infinitely more from being beaten and punished by a little and humble handmaid of God, and her humility humbles him more than the Divine power; and, secondly, because God has given Mary such a great power against the devils, that, as they have often been obliged to confess, in spite of themselves, by the mouths of the possessed, they fear one of her sighs for a soul more than the prayers of all the Saints, and one of her menaces against them more than all other torments.
53. What Lucifer has lost by pride, Mary has gained by humility. What Eve has damned and lost by disobedience, Mary has saved by obedience. Eve, in obeying the serpent, has destroyed all her children together with herself, and has delivered them to him; Mary, being perfectly faithful to God, has saved all her children and servants together with herself, and has consecrated them to His Majesty.
54. God has not only set an enmity but enmities, not simply between Mary and the devil, but between the race of the holy Virgin and the race of the devil; that is to say, God has set enmities, antipathies, and secret hatreds between the true children and the servants of Mary, and the children and servants of the devil. They do not love each other mutually. They have no inward correspondence with each other. The children of Belial, the slaves of Satan, the friends of the world (for it is the same thing), have always up to this time persecuted those who belong to our Blessed Lady, and will in future persecute them more than ever; just as of old Cain persecuted his brother Abel, and Esau his brother Jacob, who are the figures of the reprobate and the predestinate. But the humble Mary will always have the victory over that proud spirit, and so great a victory that she will go the length of crushing his head, where his pride dwells. She will always discover the malice of the serpent. She will always counterwork his infernal mines and dissipate his diabolical counsels, and will guarantee even to the end of time her faithful servants from his cruel claw. But the power of Mary over all the devils will especially break out in the latter times, when Satan will lay his snares against her heel; that is to say, her humble slaves and her poor children, whom she will raise up to make war against him. They shall be little and poor in the world’s esteem, and abased before all, like the heel, trodden underfoot and persecuted as the heel is by the other members of the body. But in return for this, they shall be rich in the grace of God, which Mary shall distribute to them abundantly. They shall be great and exalted before God in sanctity, superior to all other creatures by their animated zeal, and leaning so strongly on the divine succour, that, with the humility of their heel, in union with Mary, they shall crush the head of the devil, and cause Jesus Christ to triumph.”
Normally I'd ignore such a long post, but since I'm on the couch with a broken leg i might as well reply to it.

1. Its interesting how you link to that one contradiction when there are dozens and dozens. I'd give more but one makes my point.

As I've already pointed out, 45,000 sects all from One book. Obviously it is contradictory, especially when you compare "Christians" like you and Tidal with some pretty different opinions on core beliefs. To the point where he says you're not a Christian while you probably say the same to him.

2. If it was absolutely constant you wouldn't have millions of Christians rejecting the divinity of prophet Jesus.

3. I get it, you are Christian, other Christians are not. This is what they all say, only You have the truth, yes? So where are your proofs? Something tangible that would make an Atheist say you've shown him the light?

4. All prophets had miracles. Moses split the red sea, some 500 miles across today. Why do you not worship him?

5. I don't have time for your mental gymnastics. Let us go find a 1st grader and see if we can find out what 1+1+1 equals.

6. When there are over 90 verses in the Bible refuting the divinity of prophet Jesus best i can do is wish you good luck. As a Muslim i refuse to bow before the creation.

7. Are insults necessary? Have i mentioned the millions of Christians who don't understand the way you do? Perhaps they are heretics as well because God knows you could never be wrong.

8... honestly, I've read enough. Pretty sure i said at the end of my last post these back and forths are a waste for both of us. Good day.
 






Nikōn

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You need to stop denying the diving of Christ who is God the Son.
It's not that I don't understand the appeal (superman figures are more attractive than the transcendent singular YHWH, hence the predominance of Paganism rather than the worship of YHWH) but fundamentally it is a useless belief that is grounded in a reading of scripture foreign to scripture combined with the import of Greek philosophy (nominally Platonism for the Church Fathers and then later Aristotleanism for Catholic reformers like Aquinas).
Taking the axis that Christianity situates itself to the Hebrew Monotheism of the great patriarchs (Noah, Abraham, Moses et al), I don't think Christianity is radical enough in it's idolatry. It seems very clear that Christianity WANTS to be Gnosticism but is too scared to (as the early church saw power struggle in that ideological conflict), so it tries to reconcile it's protognostic ideas with the monotheism of the ancient Patriarchs.

The worldview of Trinitarian Christianity and it's vicarious atonement makes no sense and never will because it is not supposed it, it is a "mystery" meant to merely confound that bring awe to those who buy into it.
Jesus is God but what is YHWH?
If Jesus is God then Mary is literally (not metaphorically) the mother of God.
If Mary is the mother of God, then God is not truly God to begin with, God is reduced to being the same as found in polytheistic pantheons.

The Eucharist is an interesting one. I eat and consume God.

I think the big mystery of the Holy Trinity is really a form of either straight atheism or autotheism. It is saying Man is God, that the only God is Man itself. This I cannot accept at all.

If I believe in the God of Noah, Abraham, Moses et al, then I must take Jesus and the Apostles at their word, that "Jesus was a man sent by God, given miracles and words to speak". To assume that Jesus was meant to break with the continuity of the Prophets throughout the Old Testament, is a massive red flag to me. It is an idea that itself needs justification, it cannot back up itself.

The concept of salvation is another one, if Salvation comes through atonement of Jesus during his crucifixion, then literally everyone on earth before Jesus's time is damned to hell, which is illogical given that YHWH sent so many Prophets and holy men.
The first mention of Salvation in the Bible is Exodus 14:13:
And Moses said to the people, “Fear not, stand firm, and see the salvation of the Lord, which he will work for you today; for the Egyptians whom you see today, you shall never see again.
But if you somehow come up with a backdoor answer around this logical problem, then you just justify the irrelevance of the supposed atonement. It is a loose-loose situation.
The atonement doctrine I think is further made fraudulent by the sheer idea of "Salvation" found throughout the Old Testament. YHWH offers salvation through repentance and following the law, as taught by the prophets.

As found in Isaiah 12:
You will say in that day:
“I will give thanks to thee, O YHWH,
for though thou wast angry with me,
thy anger turned away,
and thou didst comfort me.

“Behold, God is my salvation;
I will trust, and will not be afraid;
for YHWH God is my strength and my song,
and he has become my salvation.”

With joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation.

And you will say in that day:
“Give thanks to YHWH,
call upon his name;
make known his deeds among the nations,
proclaim that his name is exalted.
“Sing praises to YHWH, for he has done gloriously;
let this be known in all the earth.
Shout, and sing for joy, O inhabitant of Zion,
for great in your midst is the Holy One of Israel.”



If Jesus actually taught anything different then, one would have to conceit, that the majority of Jews were actually legitimately correct for rejecting Jesus.


On the Trinity doctrine, I will remind you:





The logical answer to the Trinity doctrine is twofold: God doesn't exist, or man is God.

Both are false, as God is One, Jesus was not a Heretic, Jesus was just a Prophet like Elijah (who also did amazing miracles) and Isaiah. He was "the Christ" in the manner that Cyrus was also "the Christ".
Thus says YHWH to his Christ, to Cyrus,
whose right hand I have grasped,
to subdue nations before him
and ungird the loins of kings,
to open doors before him

that gates may not be closed
(Isaiah 45:1)

(I've added nothing to the text, the Hebrew literally reads 'mashiach', which is translated to the Greek word "Christ" when used in the NT)
 






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