Dispensationalism is not Biblical, it is a man-made doctrine.

Michi

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I think if anything the closer you are to God the more sensitive you are to sin. The more aware you are of sinful attitudes within your heart and judt how big of a sinner you really are apart from him. Pride, covetesness, greed, anger and etc... There are days when I feel ashamed of almost all of of the things in my heart.
I have days like this too. Feels like I have fallen away and want to get back! Made me realize I can’t do it without Christ’s help every day.

Whether it is null or still in effect the law is just, perfect, and was made so that life will go well for us. The opposite brings misery and destruction. There‘s nothing else to do but try to keep the law, plus the things Jesus added to it.
 






Maldarker

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The law is a mirror to reflect our sin to us and show us why we need redemption....

Do not be discouraged but rejoice for the LORD is with you. I have feelings of sin & need repentance everyday. For just one thought & you have sinned if its the wrong thought. No matter how much you strive to keep the laws you will fall short.

That's the point to not let ego pride get in the way to say to GOD to cry out how much we need HIS help in our lives.
 






Lyfe

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I have days like this too. Feels like I have fallen away and want to get back! Made me realize I can’t do it without Christ’s help every day.

Whether it is null or still in effect the law is just, perfect, and was made so that life will go well for us. The opposite brings misery and destruction. There‘s nothing else to do but try to keep the law, plus the things Jesus added to it.
I used to always get confused with all the seemingly contradicting passages in the gospel about the law, but I think people will always remain confused until they know what the doctrrine of regeneration is and why God chose the ministrstion of the holy spirit to supersede the ministration of condemnation and death(the law). If someone is truly born again they have the holy spirit and their entire disposition toward sin and God has been changed. They no longer feel the way toward sin as they used to. You can impose a set of rules and regulations on someone but that doesn't deal with the crux of the problem which is the heart. God has already done the work and what the law could not do which is change the heart by the holy spirit. You dont need the law to keep you from evil as the holy spirit has inwardly changed you to no longer find pleasure or satisfaction in evil. You become unsatisified with sin and even disgusted with it as a result from regeneration. If so then what can the law do for a born again Christian? The Bible says the law is for the sinner and unrighteous person or the insividual who is still unregenerste and doesnt know Christ.

The problem when we try and keep the law is that we cant pick and choose which parts of it to keep. Even trying is futile. We have to keep all of it. Thr problem is then we always live in guilt when we fail and God never intended that. We can never rest in what Christ has done. Allot of Christians dont understand this.
 






phipps

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I defintely disagree with the notion of a pre trib rapture as well as God having two different sets of people(Israel & the church), but any teaching that Christians are still under the law is false. The law effected no change and couldnt perfect or reach the heart of those who were under it. That is why Israel was always in rebellion and why we needed a new covenant with focus on the ministration of the holy spirit. The law only makes us a sinner because under it if we sin just once we then break every precept of the law and become a lawbreaker. Its vitally important to understand that concept. If you sin just once you break the whole law. The old covenant was the law and the new covenant is the holy spirit which does what the law could never do which is effect the heart of the christian through regeneration. If you are a new creature in Christ you have the holy spirit who brings supernatural change. The law cant profit you, because its an external set of rules and regulations, ordinances and etc etc. If you fail in just one area of the law you break every single law and become guilty and condemned before God. Why on earth would anyone want to be meaured by such a standard that can only bring death and condemnation? We are justified by faith in Christ alone and we have his perfect righteousness. It is the holy spirit who brings supernatural inner change. The law or trying to keep the law cant do anything. Its either the perfect righteousness of Christ, or nothing.

Obviously we are not to go on living in sin, but if someone is truly a new creature in Christ and been born again he or she cannot go on living in sin indefinitely. The holy spirit does what the law could never do. The law gives us knowledge of sin and is a schoolmaster, but thats it. If there was any moment at all today where you failed to love God with all ur heart or your neighbor as yourself it is game over. That is why its best to ditch this idea that you or anyone keeps the law because you need to keep it perfectly becsuse perfect obediance is needed to go to heaven according to the law. Not partial obedience or almost obeying the whole law, but full obediance without fail.
Well you've said a lot in this post so I'm going to give you a detailed and long response.

but any teaching that Christians are still under the law is false.
Well, the Bible does say that we are not under law, but does that mean that we are free from obeying the law? Is it okay to lie, steal, murder etc because we are no longer under law? The passage is found in Romans 6:14, "Sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace."

After Paul states that we are not under the law but under grace, he asks in verse 15, "What then? Shall we sin (break the law) because we are not under law but under grace?" His answer in the same verse is "Certainly not!" In the strongest possible language, Paul states that being under grace does not give us license to break the law. Yet this is what millions of Christians believe today, missing Paul's clear point.

So if being under grace does not excuse us from keeping the law, then what does Paul mean by saying that Christians are not under the law? He gives that answer in Romans 3:19, "Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God."

Here Paul equates being under the law with being "guilty before God." In other words, those who are under the law are guilty of breaking it and are under the condemnation of it. This is why Christians are not under it. They are not breaking it, theyare not guilty and condemned by it. Therefore, they are not under it but, rather, are under the power of grace instead. Later in his argument, Paul points out that the power of grace is greater than the power of sin. This is why he states so emphatically, "For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace." Grace overrules the authority of sin, giving power to obey God's law.

The law effected no change and couldnt perfect or reach the heart of those who were under it. That is why Israel was always in rebellion and why we needed a new covenant with focus on the ministration of the holy spirit.
The law was never meant to effect any change in either the Old or New Testaments. The following is what the Bible has to say about what the function of the law is:

Romans 3:20, "Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

Romans 5:12-13, "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law."

Romans 7:7-8, "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead."

Galatians 2:21, "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”


From what the Word of God says, the law (the ten commandments) is the only indicator for mankind to determine whether they are living a sinful life or not. There is no other measure by which a human being can be made aware if they are righteous or unrighteous than through the law of God. So the law separates that which is good from that which is evil, identifies what sin is, but cannot solve the problems that sin causes, man cannot be saved by the law but can only be saved by Jesus Christ who can destroy sin.

This was/is true in both the Old and New Testaments.

The old covenant was the law and the new covenant is the holy spirit which does what the law could never do which is effect the heart of the christian through regeneration.
The law was and will always be relevant in both the Old and New covenants. In fact in the New Covenant we are told, "I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts” (Hebrews 8:10). Why would this be written in the New Covenant if the law was not essential in it? Obedience is not just an Old Covenant concept. The law is an important element of the New Covenant as well. In the New Covenant, both the law and the gospel appear. The law shows what sin is; the gospel points to the remedy for that sin, which is the death and resurrection of Jesus. If there is no law, there is no sin, and so what are we saved from? Only in the context of the law does the gospel make sense.

The Holy Spirit which is God was also in the Old Covenant. It convicted people of God, led them to repentance and change of heart which led them to naturally obey God's law (those that did).

If you are a new creature in Christ you have the holy spirit who brings supernatural change.
Yes, the Holy Spirit leads us to repent and be baptised. It leads us to accept Christ as our personal Saviour. This change that takes place in our hearts leads God to give us a new heart, one that loves Him and desires to serve Him. As we grow in our faith daily, God empowers us to obey His law, He writes the law in our hearts.

Why on earth would anyone want to be meaured by such a standard that can only bring death and condemnation?
That's not what the Bible says. The Bible tells us we will be judged by the standard of the law, "For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty" (James 2:10-12).

We will all be judged by God’s law. Paul wrote thieves will not inherit the heaven. Furthermore, the Bible says that liars, adulterers, idolaters, and covetous men will not be in the kingdom (1 Corinthians 6:9-10). Why? Because the law forbid those things, and men will be judged finally by that law. Not one person will be admitted into heaven who wilfully violates any one of the Ten Commandments, because breaking one is breaking all.

We are justified by faith in Christ alone and we have his perfect righteousness.
If we are justified by faith and have Christ's righteousness then that means we are obedient and do God's will just like Christ Himself did. He is our example.

It is the holy spirit who brings supernatural inner change. The law or trying to keep the law cant do anything. Its either the perfect righteousness of Christ, or nothing.
None of us can keep the law by ourselves. We will fail miserably without Christ in the equation. When we submit to God, He empowers us to do His will. To have Christ's righteousness is to be obedient to His law just as He was.

Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15). Why would He say that if we are not meant to keep the law? When we love Christ, we naturally obey His law. It comes from the heart. Love is what motivates the obedience.

Its always important to remember that we cannot earn salvation by our good works. Obedience is the fruit of salvation in Christ. Through His amazing grace, especially displayed at the cross, God has liberated His people from the penalty and curse of sin.
 






Lyfe

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Well you've said a lot in this post so I'm going to give you a detailed and long response.


Well, the Bible does say that we are not under law, but does that mean that we are free from obeying the law? Is it okay to lie, steal, murder etc because we are no longer under law? The passage is found in Romans 6:14, "Sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace."

After Paul states that we are not under the law but under grace, he asks in verse 15, "What then? Shall we sin (break the law) because we are not under law but under grace?" His answer in the same verse is "Certainly not!" In the strongest possible language, Paul states that being under grace does not give us license to break the law. Yet this is what millions of Christians believe today, missing Paul's clear point.

So if being under grace does not excuse us from keeping the law, then what does Paul mean by saying that Christians are not under the law? He gives that answer in Romans 3:19, "Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God."

Here Paul equates being under the law with being "guilty before God." In other words, those who are under the law are guilty of breaking it and are under the condemnation of it. This is why Christians are not under it. They are not breaking it, theyare not guilty and condemned by it. Therefore, they are not under it but, rather, are under the power of grace instead. Later in his argument, Paul points out that the power of grace is greater than the power of sin. This is why he states so emphatically, "For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace." Grace overrules the authority of sin, giving power to obey God's law.


The law was never meant to effect any change in either the Old or New Testaments. The following is what the Bible has to say about what the function of the law is:

Romans 3:20, "Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

Romans 5:12-13, "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law."

Romans 7:7-8, "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead."

Galatians 2:21, "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”


From what the Word of God says, the law (the ten commandments) is the only indicator for mankind to determine whether they are living a sinful life or not. There is no other measure by which a human being can be made aware if they are righteous or unrighteous than through the law of God. So the law separates that which is good from that which is evil, identifies what sin is, but cannot solve the problems that sin causes, man cannot be saved by the law but can only be saved by Jesus Christ who can destroy sin.

This was/is true in both the Old and New Testaments.


The law was and will always be relevant in both the Old and New covenants. In fact in the New Covenant we are told, "I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts” (Hebrews 8:10). Why would this be written in the New Covenant if the law was not essential in it? Obedience is not just an Old Covenant concept. The law is an important element of the New Covenant as well. In the New Covenant, both the law and the gospel appear. The law shows what sin is; the gospel points to the remedy for that sin, which is the death and resurrection of Jesus. If there is no law, there is no sin, and so what are we saved from? Only in the context of the law does the gospel make sense.

The Holy Spirit which is God was also in the Old Covenant. It convicted people of God, led them to repentance and change of heart which led them to naturally obey God's law (those that did).


Yes, the Holy Spirit leads us to repent and be baptised. It leads us to accept Christ as our personal Saviour. This change that takes place in our hearts leads God to give us a new heart, one that loves Him and desires to serve Him. As we grow in our faith daily, God empowers us to obey His law, He writes the law in our hearts.


That's not what the Bible says. The Bible tells us we will be judged by the standard of the law, "For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty" (James 2:10-12).

We will all be judged by God’s law. Paul wrote thieves will not inherit the heaven. Furthermore, the Bible says that liars, adulterers, idolaters, and covetous men will not be in the kingdom (1 Corinthians 6:9-10). Why? Because the law forbid those things, and men will be judged finally by that law. Not one person will be admitted into heaven who wilfully violates any one of the Ten Commandments, because breaking one is breaking all.


If we are justified by faith and have Christ's righteousness then that means we are obedient and do God's will just like Christ Himself did. He is our example.


None of us can keep the law by ourselves. We will fail miserably without Christ in the equation. When we submit to God, He empowers us to do His will. To have Christ's righteousness is to be obedient to His law just as He was.

Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15). Why would He say that if we are not meant to keep the law? When we love Christ, we naturally obey His law. It comes from the heart. Love is what motivates the obedience.

Its always important to remember that we cannot earn salvation by our good works. Obedience is the fruit of salvation in Christ. Through His amazing grace, especially displayed at the cross, God has liberated His people from the penalty and curse of sin.
You said that not one person who wilfully violates the ten commandments will enter into heaven. My question for you is. Do you keep the law and know what the law says? Do you love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength at all times without fail? Do you love your neighbor as yourself at all times? Can you tell me that God found no fault with you today and there was not one time you sinned? If he can find atlest one time you sinned that would mean you broke the ten commandments and the whole law, no? And if you sinned once to break the whole law then that would make you a lawbreaker, right? Trying isnt good enough. If you sin just once you are a lawbreaker...
 






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You said that not one person who wilfully violates the ten commandments will enter into heaven. My question for you is. Do you keep the law and know what the law says? Do you love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength at all times without fail? Do you love your neighbor as yourself at all times? Can you tell me that God found no fault with you today and there was not one time you sinned? If he can find atlest one time you sinned that would mean you broke the ten commandments and the whole law, no? And if you sinned once to break the whole law then that would make you a lawbreaker, right? Trying isnt good enough. If you sin just once you are a lawbreaker...
Phariseeic letter of the law vibes from phipps
 






Lyfe

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I just dont think people fully understand. Paul used the law to show even those who think they keep the law just how badly they fall short. It demands perfect obediance and trying is not good enough. You must KEEP THE WHOLE LAW, no ifs, ands, or butts... Lets say there were 100 laws and you kept 99. That would still make you a lawbreaker and get you thrown into hell. That is how holy the law is. You sin once and it makes you a lawbreaker.

You could be that person who keeps 99 percent of the laws and tell others who barely keep any of it that they need to do so and you are still as condemned and unrighteous as they are according to the laws standards.
 






phipps

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You said that not one person who wilfully violates the ten commandments will enter into heaven. My question for you is. Do you keep the law and know what the law says? Do you love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength at all times without fail? Do you love your neighbor as yourself at all times? Can you tell me that God found no fault with you today and there was not one time you sinned? If he can find atlest one time you sinned that would mean you broke the ten commandments and the whole law, no? And if you sinned once to break the whole law then that would make you a lawbreaker, right? Trying isnt good enough. If you sin just once you are a lawbreaker...
There is confession. I John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Do you know this would be impossible to do without the law? Its the law that points out what sin is ans we know that we've transgressed it.

In my post about law and dispensationalism, I posted, "If sin is breaking the law, it means that without the law there is no sin. So, if you say that there is no law any longer after the cross, it means that there are no sinners! Which is untrue."

Obedience to God's law is one of the conditions to being saved:

Matthew 19:17, “If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

Hebrews 5:9, “He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.”


We can't avoid it as Christians but the good news is its Christ who leads us to obey. No matter how hard we try on our own, we will never be obedient the way God wants us to. He gives us a new heart that wants only good, He gives us divine power so we may partake of His Divine Nature, "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me" (Galatians 2:20).
 






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phipps

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I just dont think people fully understand. Paul used the law to show even those who think they keep the law just how badly they fall short. It demands perfect obediance and trying is not good enough. You must KEEP THE WHOLE LAW, no ifs, ands, or butts... Lets say there were 100 laws and you kept 99. That would still make you a lawbreaker and get you thrown into hell. That is how holy the law is. You sin once and it makes you a lawbreaker.

You could be that person who keeps 99 percent of the laws and tell others who barely keep any of it that they need to do so and you are still as condemned and unrighteous as they are according to the laws standards.
You're too focussed on keeping the whole law. Really its a step by step process in our sanctification process as we grow in Christ. Its not something that happens overnight. We will fall, confess and get back and continue on that long and narrow road. If we pray earnestly for guidance, sincerely study God’s Word and follow truth as soon as we are shown, God promises to keep us from error and lead us safely to all truth (Matthew 7:7, John 7:17, 2 Timothy 2:15).

Paul showed that we can't obey the law on our own without Christ. Paul wrote:

Romans 1:5, "Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name."
 






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Lyfe

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Phipps,

We either keep the whole law without fail or we are a lawbreaker. There is no in between. That is the law.

I dont want to be misunderstood cause I dont want it to come off as if I am saying its ok to sin. It never is. Those who are saved hate and are grieved by their sin, because they have a regenerate heart and new nature. If they continue in it God eventually chastises them and one way or another they eventually repent. Its incredibly hard for a truly born again Christian to remain in sin. I have tried it before and I hated it. Eventually God intervenes and chastises you ans its not fun at all. Those wordly people who go to church and have never been born again need to hear the law yeah, because they jave never truly given their life to Christ. Thats what the law is for.

My whole point is that if we sin once we become lawbreakers. I would even argue that under the law and where the law is in effect in counting trespasses your sins will outweigh your obediance. Evil thoughts can become sin, indifference toward evil is sin, not listening to the holy spirit when he leads you to do something is sin. Not doing what you believe to be right is sin. You can only ever be a massive sinner under the law. Relying on ourself and not God is sin. A faithless thought is sin.


That is how holy and perfect Gods law is. Paul coveted once and he died according to the law. The law is holy righteous and good but unfortunately for us as fallen human beings it is our doom.
 






Lyfe

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If your interested in a more in depth explanation of what i believe here it is.

 






phipps

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Phipps,

We either keep the whole law without fail or we are a lawbreaker. There is no in between. That is the law.

I dont want to be misunderstood cause I dont want it to come off as if I am saying its ok to sin. It never is. Those who are saved hate and are grieved by their sin, because they have a regenerate heart and new nature. If they continue in it God eventually chastises them and one way or another they eventually repent. Its incredibly hard for a truly born again Christian to remain in sin. I have tried it before and I hated it. Eventually God intervenes and chastises you ans its not fun at all. Those wordly people who go to church and have never been born again need to hear the law yeah, because they jave never truly given their life to Christ. Thats what the law is for.

My whole point is that if we sin once we become lawbreakers. I would even argue that under the law and where the law is in effect in counting trespasses your sins will outweigh your obediance. Evil thoughts can become sin, indifference toward evil is sin, not listening to the holy spirit when he leads you to do something is sin. Not doing what you believe to be right is sin. You can only ever be a massive sinner under the law. That is how holy and perfect Gods law is. Paul coveted once and he died according to the law. The law is holy righteous and good but unfortunately for us as fallen human beings it is our doom.
I haven't said we shouldn't keep the whole law. We have to but its not something that can be done as soon as we become Christians. As we grow in Christ, as we get sanctified we sin less and less. Its a process. What we have to be willing to do is to make a choice to be obedient and as our hearts change, when the law is written in our hearts we will become fully obedient to Christ.

Yes if we sin we are lawbreakers but luckily for us we have Christ who died on the cross for our sins and is willing to forgive us should we confess. The Bible teaches that we can be completely obedient when led by Christ. So the law is not our doom under those circumstances. Jesus said, "This is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3). The law is not meant to be burdensome for God's people because they truly love Him. True love and obedience go hand in hand.
 






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phipps

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If your interested in a more in depth explanation of what i believe here it is.

The law has never been the answer to worldliness and sin in any era since creation. The law points out sin like a mirror but a mirror cannot clean your face. Christ cleanses us of our sin not the law.
 






Nikōn

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I just dont think people fully understand. Paul used the law to show even those who think they keep the law just how badly they fall short. It demands perfect obediance and trying is not good enough. You must KEEP THE WHOLE LAW, no ifs, ands, or butts... Lets say there were 100 laws and you kept 99. That would still make you a lawbreaker and get you thrown into hell. That is how holy the law is. You sin once and it makes you a lawbreaker.

You could be that person who keeps 99 percent of the laws and tell others who barely keep any of it that they need to do so and you are still as condemned and unrighteous as they are according to the laws standards.
Actually:


When we had come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. On the following day Paul went in with us to James; and all the elders were present. After greeting them, he related one by one the things that God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. And when they heard it, they glorified God. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed; they are all zealous for the law, and they have been told about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or observe the customs. What then is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come. Do therefore what we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow; take these men and purify yourself along with them and pay their expenses, so that they may shave their heads. Thus all will know that there is nothing in what they have been told about you but that you yourself live in observance of the law. But as for the Gentiles who have believed, we have sent a letter with our judgment that they should abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled[b] and from unchastity.” Then Paul took the men, and the next day he purified himself with them and went into the temple, to give notice when the days of purification would be fulfilled and the offering presented for every one of them.
- Acts 21:17-26

And when the governor had motioned to him to speak, Paul replied:
“Realizing that for many years you have been judge over this nation, I cheerfully make my defense. As you may ascertain, it is not more than twelve days since I went up to worship at Jerusalem; and they did not find me disputing with any one or stirring up a crowd, either in the temple or in the synagogues, or in the city. Neither can they prove to you what they now bring up against me. But this I admit to you, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the law or written in the prophets, having a hope in God which these themselves accept, that there will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust. So I always take pains to have a clear conscience toward God and toward men."

- Acts 24:10-16
 






Lyfe

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To answer that Acts 21 scripture.

To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. 1 Cor 9:20

Im not sure what the other scripture is supposed to prove though.
 






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