Did the watchmen exist? Views??

Phithx

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You're so wrong but I'm not going to go into a discussion about Islam now. God bless too

P.S. You cannot mix and match truth. There is only one way to come to God. "Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." John 14:6. Your religion is preaching a false doctrine to you!
Probably safer not to use Satan's colour for Jesus' Words.
 






Phithx

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How is red Satan's colour lol. The dragon being red doesn't mean the colour is Satan's. Any way its not about the colour is it? Its about the words and their meaning.
As you like: just saying.

Red blood-stained Earth. Blue sky: Heaven, where Christ came from and rose to.

Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns uponhis heads.
12:4 And his tale (of lies - John 8:35) drew the third part of the"Stars" (ch. 9:1) of heaven (into his army), and did (cause them tobe) cast to the Earth (for their treason against God): and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devourher child as soon as it was born (Christ - Second Coming).
12:5 And she brought forth a Man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and [to]His Throne.
12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand twohundred [and] threescore "days" (years).
12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon (Lucifer); and the dragon fought and hisangels,
 






phipps

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As you like: just saying.

Red blood-stained Earth. Blue sky: Heaven, where Christ came from and rose to.

Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns uponhis heads.
12:4 And his tale (of lies - John 8:35) drew the third part of the"Stars" (ch. 9:1) of heaven (into his army), and did (cause them tobe) cast to the Earth (for their treason against God): and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devourher child as soon as it was born (Christ - Second Coming).
12:5 And she brought forth a Man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and [to]His Throne.
12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand twohundred [and] threescore "days" (years).
12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon (Lucifer); and the dragon fought and hisangels,
I know who the dragon represents thank you. Red is just a colour like any other, but when the Bible says the "red dragon" that's when the meaning changes. As I'm sure you know Revelation uses symbols. Red/Scarlet in Bible symbology mean, Sin/corruption. See Isaiah 1:18; Nahum 2:3; Revelation 17:1-4.

And as I said its not about the colour I highlighted Jesus' words with, its about the meaning of the Words. He is the way, truth and life. No ones comes to the Father except through Him. That is message you should be focussing on.
 






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Robin

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Angels are spirits and higher beings than humans and have more powers and abilities than we can imagine. Both fallen and unfallen. Angels again, both fallen and unfallen can morph into people but that doesn't change their nature. They are not flesh and blood like us. They still can't procreate with man. Its impossible for any Christian to who believe in the Word of God to believe that just because angels appear in human form once in a while, means they can function sexually like humans. They can't marry. They can't have sex. Even after we go to heaven we will be like angels and not be able to marry. So says Jesus.

"For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven." Matthew 22:30.

I already posted this above but I will repost it because you refuse to accept the plain Word of God as it is. Paul says that “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Corinthians 15:50). He goes on to say in verses 51-55, "Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” “O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?”
Okay but do you see the caveat here in the verse you posted?

"For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven." Matthew 22:30.

The angels in heaven are not the same as the fallen ones who supposedly copulated with human women.

Jude 1:6-7
"And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;
as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

How do you interperate this verse? Because to me this implies the fallen angels (not to be confused with those who "remained in their proper domain") had, similarly to Sodom and Gomorrah, trespassed God's given sexual edicts. I mean, the angels in the story were able to eat like men.

Genesis 19:3
"But he insisted strongly; so they turned in to him and entered his house. Then he made them a feast, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate."

Lastly, I'm not refusing to accept anything. Dialogue works when people are able to respectfully communicate with each other even in a dispute so I'll ask you to please refrain from making comments like that just because we have a different view of scripture. Its supposed to be a discussion, not an argument.
 






Camidria

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@phipps since you are accusing people of perverting scripture (you have no idea about my relationship with Jesus even, so are judging me on that as well)

Can you please tell me then where the giants come from? They did exist as there are heaps of evidence they did, and the Bible talks at length about them:

Yet it was I who destroyed the Amorite before them, whose height was like the height of the cedars, and he was as strong as the oaks; yet I destroyed his fruit above and his roots beneath. Also it was I who brought you up from the land of Egypt, and led you forty years through the wilderness, to possess the land of the Amorite (Amos 2:9–10).

For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of the giants [rephaim]. Indeed his bedstead was an iron bedstead. (Is it not in Rabbah of the people of Ammon?) Nine cubits is its length and four cubits its width, according to the standard cubit (Deuteronomy 3:11).
This is about 13.5 feet long and 6 feet wide. (4 meters long bed)

The Emim had dwelt there in times past, a people as great and numerous and tall as the Anakim. They were also regarded as giants [Hebrew rephaim], like the Anakim, but the Moabites call them Emim (Deuteronomy 2:10–11).

The land through which we have gone, in spying it out, is a land that devours its inhabitants; and all the people whom we saw in it are men of great size. There also we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak are part of the Nephilim); and we became like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight” (Numbers 13:32—33, NASB).12

And a champion went out from the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, from Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span. He had a bronze helmet on his head, and he was armed with a coat of mail, and the weight of the coat was five thousand shekels of bronze. And he had bronze armor on his legs and a bronze javelin between his shoulders. Now the staff of his spear was like a weaver’s beam, and his iron spearhead weighed six hundred shekels; and a shield-bearer went before him (1 Samuel 17:4–7).
His coat of mail weighed about 125 pounds (56 Kg) and just the tip of his spear was 15 pounds (6.8 Kg).

There are a lot more scriptures that talks about giants but these are just a few....
 






Phithx

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I know who the dragon represents thank you. Red is just a colour like any other, but when the Bible says the "red dragon" that's when the meaning changes. As I'm sure you know Revelation uses symbols. Red/Scarlet in Bible symbology mean, Sin/corruption. See Isaiah 1:18; Nahum 2:3; Revelation 17:1-4.

And as I said its not about the colour I highlighted Jesus' words with, its about the meaning of the Words. He is the way, truth and life. No ones comes to the Father except through Him. That is message you should be focussing on.
Good quotes.

Just saying. I personally use blue for Christ's words.
 






phipps

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Okay but do you see the caveat here in the verse you posted?

"For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven." Matthew 22:30.

The angels in heaven are not the same as the fallen ones who supposedly copulated with human women.

Jude 1:6-7
"And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;
as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

How do you interperate this verse? Because to me this implies the fallen angels (not to be confused with those who "remained in their proper domain") had, similarly to Sodom and Gomorrah, trespassed God's given sexual edicts. I mean, the angels in the story were able to eat like men.

Genesis 19:3
"But he insisted strongly; so they turned in to him and entered his house. Then he made them a feast, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate."

Lastly, I'm not refusing to accept anything. Dialogue works when people are able to respectfully communicate with each other even in a dispute so I'll ask you to please refrain from making comments like that just because we have a different view of scripture. Its supposed to be a discussion, not an argument.
I've explained everything over and over again here and you are repeating the same things that've responded to. I refer you back to those posts.

I am being respectful but I will be honest and I am a blunt person. What you are all saying isn't biblical at all literally. Its from a book that is not scriptural. It is not of the Bible which is God's Word. Angels did not and cannot procreate with themselves let alone people. God bless.
 






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Phithx

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I've explained everything over and over again here and you are repeating the same things that've responded to. I refer you back to those posts.

I am being respectful but I wll be honest and I am a blunt person. What you are all saying isn't biblical at all. It is not of the Bible which is God's Word. Angels did not and cannot procreate with themselves let alone people. God bless.
Thumbs up.
 






phipps

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@phipps since you are accusing people of perverting scripture (you have no idea about my relationship with Jesus even, so are judging me on that as well)

Can you please tell me then where the giants come from? They did exist as there are heaps of evidence they did, and the Bible talks at length about them:

Yet it was I who destroyed the Amorite before them, whose height was like the height of the cedars, and he was as strong as the oaks; yet I destroyed his fruit above and his roots beneath. Also it was I who brought you up from the land of Egypt, and led you forty years through the wilderness, to possess the land of the Amorite (Amos 2:9–10).

For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of the giants [rephaim]. Indeed his bedstead was an iron bedstead. (Is it not in Rabbah of the people of Ammon?) Nine cubits is its length and four cubits its width, according to the standard cubit (Deuteronomy 3:11).
This is about 13.5 feet long and 6 feet wide. (4 meters long bed)

The Emim had dwelt there in times past, a people as great and numerous and tall as the Anakim. They were also regarded as giants [Hebrew rephaim], like the Anakim, but the Moabites call them Emim (Deuteronomy 2:10–11).

The land through which we have gone, in spying it out, is a land that devours its inhabitants; and all the people whom we saw in it are men of great size. There also we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak are part of the Nephilim); and we became like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight” (Numbers 13:32—33, NASB).12

And a champion went out from the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, from Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span. He had a bronze helmet on his head, and he was armed with a coat of mail, and the weight of the coat was five thousand shekels of bronze. And he had bronze armor on his legs and a bronze javelin between his shoulders. Now the staff of his spear was like a weaver’s beam, and his iron spearhead weighed six hundred shekels; and a shield-bearer went before him (1 Samuel 17:4–7).
His coat of mail weighed about 125 pounds (56 Kg) and just the tip of his spear was 15 pounds (6.8 Kg).

There are a lot more scriptures that talks about giants but these are just a few....
since you are accusing people of perverting scripture (you have no idea about my relationship with Jesus even, so are judging me on that as well)
This is not about your personal relationship with Christ. I don't know anything about it and my discussion about your doctrine has nothing to do with that. Don't turn this discussion into something its not about.

You twisted the story of the flood and Noah which is plain and not complicated to fit in with your doctrine. The Bible is clear the flood was about sin, too much sin that God regretted creating man. It was not about half human, half angel hybrids. The corruption is that of sin.

Can you please tell me then where the giants come from? They did exist as there are heaps of evidence they did, and the Bible talks at length about them:
I am not disputing the existence of the giants. They existed but they were not half angels. They were born from people. Does the Bible tell us Goliath was half angel?

Where do dwarves come from?

You still haven't answered any of the other questions I asked you about angels about whether they have bodies like ours, genders, sex organs? Show me where the Bible says these things. As I said it is a satanic doctrine and its not based on the Word of God.

I'm done with this discussion now. We are going round in circles. I've said all I can say. God bless.
 






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phipps

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Good quotes.

Just saying. I personally use blue for Christ's words.
Blue is your preference and that's fine. I prefer red. They are just colours. The Words of Jesus (and the whole Bible, its all God's Word) are what matter.
 






Robin

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Well this is the first time I've read this thread and I haven't looked at it right from the beginning.

What you're being told here about the sons of God and giants is not true or biblical. The sons of God were human and nothing in the Bible suggests otherwise.
In the Old Testament the phrase “sons of God” always refers to angels (Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7). Granted angels do not marry but then again, that doesn't mean it was impossible for them to - the bible doesn't say that they are incapable of marrying or reproduction. Its silent on that matter. So what are the other theories of who the sons of God are? Powerful human rulers? Or righteous sons of Seth while the women are wicked descendants of Cain? The weakness of those two theories is that ordinary human males marrying ordinary human females does not account for why the offspring were “giants” or “heroes of old, men of renown.” Further, why would God decide to bring the flood on the earth (Genesis 6:5-7) when God had never forbidden powerful human males or descendants of Seth to marry ordinary human females or descendants of Cain? The oncoming judgment of Genesis 6:5-7 is linked to what took place in Genesis 6:1-4. Only the obscene, perverse marriage of fallen angels with human females would seem to justify such a harsh judgment.

Angels cannot procreate with humans. They don't have bodies like we do and they don't have sex organs whether male or female. Angels don't even procreate with each other. They were created not born. Jesus Himself said in Matthew 22:30, "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven."
Where in the bible does it say that angels do not have sex organs and cannot procreate? Or that the human bodies they can clearly take the form of is not capable of doing these things?

The Bible doesn't tell us much about these giants (Nephilim) so people have put their own twists on what they think and they are not biblical. There were nothing more than mere men.

So why the special mention of their origin as opposed to just being included in the population of normal men by normal conception?


If angels (in this case fallen angels), could procreate with man, why would they stop then and not continue procreating half human half angel beings to this day?

Perhaps because those ones have been bound up and reserved for judgement as indicated in Jude?


Would a flood destroy angels who are spirits? Yet the Bible says they were all destroyed.

Would half man, half angles be easily killed by a flood? Where else in the Bible can we find such information to back this up?

Well, the prevailing theory with people who believe this is that the spirits of the Nephilim became what is otherwise known as "demons" - Which we can tell from the NT, need bodies to enter into. No one has really suggested that the angels were destroyed in the flood.


What you're being told here about the Nephilim implies they are fallen angels. Why would God call fallen angels "sons of God"? The words "sons of God" are a term of endearment in the Bible, they wouldn't apply to Satan and his angels. Jude verse six explains how these angels have "not kept their first estate”, which would also imply that they have also lost their "sons of God" status along with their exalted positions.
I mean in Job, Satan presents himself to God among the "sons of God" .
 






Camidria

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You still haven't answered any of the other questions I asked you about angels about whether they have bodies like ours, genders, sex organs? Show me where the Bible says these things. As I said it is a satanic doctrine and its not based on the Word of God.
I don't know if they have the same parts as us, but you don't need the same parts as us to procreate, you can harvest sperm and ova, you can substitute DNA in them (Look at the video's, HUMANS are doing this today so angels could have as well), and then you can place them back into a surrogate. So I tried to explain this to you, you don't need the same parts to procreate. Again I posted a scientific video on how humans are doing this today using CRISPR, and if we can do it, mixing DNA in the lab, perverting God's creation in the process, then angels can do the same, and could have done the same as well....

I'm done with this discussion now. We are going round in circles. I've said all I can say. God bless.
Me too, I am also done thank you very much
 






Robin

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I've explained everything over and over again here and you are repeating the same things that've responded to. I refer you back to those posts.

I am being respectful but I will be honest and I am a blunt person. What you are all saying isn't biblical at all literally. Its from a book that is not scriptural. It is not of the Bible which is God's Word. Angels did not and cannot procreate with themselves let alone people. God bless.
I also never once quoted from the book of Enoch.
 






phipps

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Well this is the first time I've read this thread and I haven't looked at it right from the beginning.


In the Old Testament the phrase “sons of God” always refers to angels (Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7). Granted angels do not marry but then again, that doesn't mean it was impossible for them to - the bible doesn't say that they are incapable of marrying or reproduction. Its silent on that matter. So what are the other theories of who the sons of God are? Powerful human rulers? Or righteous sons of Seth while the women are wicked descendants of Cain? The weakness of those two theories is that ordinary human males marrying ordinary human females does not account for why the offspring were “giants” or “heroes of old, men of renown.” Further, why would God decide to bring the flood on the earth (Genesis 6:5-7) when God had never forbidden powerful human males or descendants of Seth to marry ordinary human females or descendants of Cain? The oncoming judgment of Genesis 6:5-7 is linked to what took place in Genesis 6:1-4. Only the obscene, perverse marriage of fallen angels with human females would seem to justify such a harsh judgment.


Where in the bible does it say that angels do not have sex organs and cannot procreate? Or that the human bodies they can clearly take the form of is not capable of doing these things?


So why the special mention of their origin as opposed to just being included in the population of normal men by normal conception?


Perhaps because those ones have been bound up and reserved for judgement as indicated in Jude?


Well, the prevailing theory with people who believe this is that the spirits of the Nephilim became what is otherwise known as "demons" - Which we can tell from the NT, need bodies to enter into. No one has really suggested that the angels were destroyed in the flood.


I mean in Job, Satan presents himself to God among the "sons of God" .
This is going to be a long response.

In the Old Testament the phrase “sons of God” always refers to angels (Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7). Granted angels do not marry but then again, that doesn't mean it was impossible for them to - the bible doesn't say that they are incapable of marrying or reproduction. Its silent on that matter. So what are the other theories of who the sons of God are? Powerful human rulers? Or righteous sons of Seth while the women are wicked descendants of Cain? The weakness of those two theories is that ordinary human males marrying ordinary human females does not account for why the offspring were “giants” or “heroes of old, men of renown.” Further, why would God decide to bring the flood on the earth (Genesis 6:5-7) when God had never forbidden powerful human males or descendants of Seth to marry ordinary human females or descendants of Cain?
It is not true that the phrase “sons of God” or any other suggestion of God's sons always refers to angels in the Old Testament. Here are a few verses I could find from the Old Testament that say different.

Exodus 4:22-23, "Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord: “Israel is My son, My firstborn.So I say to you, let My son go that he may serve Me. But if you refuse to let him go, indeed I will kill your son, your firstborn.”

1 Chronicles 17:13, "I will be his Father, and he shall be My son; and I will not take My mercy away from him, as I took it from him who was before you."

Psalm 2:7, “I will declare the decree: The Lord has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You."

Hosea 1:10, “Yet the number of the children of Israel Shall be as the sand of the sea, Which cannot be measured or numbered. And it shall come to pass In the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ There it shall be said to them, You are sons of the living God.’ "

It is impossible for angels to marry and procreate. That was not an ability God created in them. They have other abilities and powers but marriage and procreation aren't one of them. No creature can develop abilities that God never created in them. Fallen angels did not all of a sudden after sin grow sex organs or genes. They are not above God to do that.

If the Bible is silent on a matter that doesn't mean we make something up. The Bible is silent on many things and that's because God did not reveal certain things to us intentionally. Its best not to add things that aren't in the Word of God and contradict it. This is what brings false doctrine into the Church.

I've already explained to @Camidria about why God destroyed the earth with the flood. I used God's Word which is not hard to understand in Genesis. God destroyed this earth because of wickedness. The only people He didn't destroy were Noah and His family because they walked with Him. This is the truth of the Bible. The earth was not destroyed because of giants and their genes. Giants existed after the flood too because we read about them in the book of numbers and Samuel.

The oncoming judgment of Genesis 6:5-7 is linked to what took place in Genesis 6:1-4. Only the obscene, perverse marriage of fallen angels with human females would seem to justify such a harsh judgment.
This is not true nor is it from the Word of God. The World is going to end because of sin. The Bible is so clear about that its hard to miss from Genesis to Revelation. God will destroy the wicked and sin in hell and sin will never exist ever again.

Where in the bible does it say that angels do not have sex organs and cannot procreate? Or that the human bodies they can clearly take the form of is not capable of doing these things?
Angels are spirits with powers and can take on human form and even possess them, but not their procreative abilities. They were not created to procreate and they cannot marry.

So why the special mention of their origin as opposed to just being included in the population of normal men by normal conception?
Anything that is mentioned in the Bible is mentioned for a reason. Another meaning of "sons of God" in the Bible refers to human beings who have been recreated by God’s Spirit as Ive shown above. Here are a few verses from the New Testament.

Matthew 5:9, “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.”

John 1:12, “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.”

Romans 8:14, “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.”

The term “daughters of men,” used in Genesis 6, refers to the daughters of the unrighteous children of men, or those human beings who do not call on the name of the Lord. In the context of our Bible passage, “daughters of men” refers to the offspring of Cain and his wife.

At first Adam and Eve had two sons, Cain and Abel. Cain murdered Abel, so God gave Adam and Eve another son, Seth. He began to have children of his own, and they “began to call on the name of the LORD” (Genesis 4:25-26). And from what we’ve seen in the Bible, those who call on the name of the Lord are called the sons of God. “And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved” (Acts 2:21).

Cain had been banished from God’s presence after he murdered his brother. He settled “in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch” (Genesis 4:16–18).

So before the Flood, we have the descendants of Cain living in cities and the descendants of Seth living in the country. As long as they remained separate, the sons of God remained pure in their religious beliefs and practices.

However, eventually they began to intermingle. Maybe the sons of God needed supplies that could be more easily obtained in the cities where the daughters of men resided. The sons of God and daughters of men became familiar with each other, even friendly. Whatever the case, soon the godly sons of Seth, or sons of God, captivated by the beautiful daughters of Cain, began to marry these “daughters of men,” the descendants of Cain.

In other words, the sons of God chose to take wives as they desired—women who were pleasing to the flesh—without regard to their moral character. They ignored good advice and likely did not receive the consent of their parents, nor did they consult with God and consider His will in the matter.

All throughout the Bible, God told His people not to marry unbelievers (2 Corinthians 6:14–18). God does not want us to be unequally yoked together with unbelievers even if they have a pretty face and the nicest disposition. God says that relationship will have problems.

So the results of these intermarriages between the sons of God and daughter of men were not only giants, but sorrow. Instead of the sons of God influencing the daughters of men, the daughters of men influenced the sons of God.

Deuteronomy 7:3-4, "Nor shall you make marriages with them. You shall not give your daughter to their son, nor take their daughter for your son. For they will turn your sons away from following Me, to serve other gods; so the anger of the Lord will be aroused against you and destroy you suddenly."

The Bible is filled with stories about the sons of God mingling with the daughters of men and the disasters that follow as a result.

Samson, chosen by God, was derailed by the Philistine women. His parents pled with him to avoid marrying a pagan bride, but he insisted on having what he wanted. “Then his father and mother said to him, ‘Is there no woman among the daughters of your brethren, or among all my people, that you must go and get a wife from the uncircumcised Philistines?’ And Samson said to his father, ‘Get her for me, for she pleases me well’ ” (Judges 14:3).

Likewise, king Solomon no doubt believed that he could marry the daughters from pagan nations and, with his unsurpassed wisdom, convert them. However, those pagan daughters drew away Solomon’s heart. This is why God is so adamant about His children not marrying unbelievers. It is almost always the case that the believer is gradually transformed by the unbeliever, not the other way around.

Jesus likewise has a warning for us in these end-times:

"But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark," (Matthew 24:37-38).

Jesus here is referring to the mixed marriages of Genesis 6 that brought on the universal wickedness leading to the Flood.

As in Noah’s day, before the Flood, things that led to the destruction of the world with a deluge by water are going to happen again. The pre-Flood events are a preview of what’s going to happen before the destruction of the world by a flood of fire when Jesus comes again. History is going to repeat itself, but we don’t have to be among the repeat offenders.

The moral of the story in Genesis 6 is not to marry unbelievers.

Perhaps because those ones have been bound up and reserved for judgement as indicated in Jude?
No one is being bound up now, not fallen angels, not any people. Jude is telling us the fate of those who left their first estate and no longer sons of God. Come what may, their doom is sealed.

Well, the prevailing theory with people who believe this is that the spirits of the Nephilim became what is otherwise known as "demons" - Which we can tell from the NT, need bodies to enter into. No one has really suggested that the angels were destroyed in the flood.
A theory of people doesn't make it truth. God's Word makes it truth. In the Bible demons are fallen angels.

I mean in Job, Satan presents himself to God among the "sons of God" .
Yes, but Satan is not called a son of God is he?

Job 1:6, "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them."

Job 2:1, "Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord."

Satan is being separated from the sons of God in those verses. Only those who are of God are His sons NOT Satan and his demons.


This is the last time I am going to respond on this subject here. I choose to believe in the Word of God. I believe in the sacred canon of the Bible. God inspired all scripture and controls what goes in it. If a book is not in the Bible it wasn't meant to be. We shouldn't then treat unbiblical scripture as the Word of God. Bye.
 






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phipps

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I don't know if they have the same parts as us, but you don't need the same parts as us to procreate, you can harvest sperm and ova, you can substitute DNA in them (Look at the video's, HUMANS are doing this today so angels could have as well), and then you can place them back into a surrogate. So I tried to explain this to you, you don't need the same parts to procreate. Again I posted a scientific video on how humans are doing this today using CRISPR, and if we can do it, mixing DNA in the lab, perverting God's creation in the process, then angels can do the same, and could have done the same as well....


Me too, I am also done thank you very much
Angels are not flesh and blood where would they get sexual genes on their bodies to pervert God's creation? They can't mix genes they don't have with humans can they? Unless you're saying they used genes from people to pervert God's creation. That would make my point wouldn't it?

Bye.
 






Camidria

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Angels are not flesh and blood where would they get sexual genes on their bodies to pervert God's creation? They can't mix genes they don't have with humans can they? Unless you're saying they used genes from people to pervert God's creation. That would make my point wouldn't it?

Bye.
You simply don't know that, because the Bible doesn't tell us that, you have no clue what a angelic body is made up out of. And no I am not saying they mixed human with human dna, they did mix human and animal dna, we have some proof in the numerous mythologies out there about that.

But ok, stick your head in the sand, prof Veith is brilliant but he isn't right on every little thing out there, he is human, he can also make mistakes. And with what I have posted I haven't perverted scripture, I just do not subscribe to the Roman Catholic sethite nonsense that they made up to cover up the Nephilim,

Genesis 6:4 World English Bible (WEB)
4 The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when God’s sons came in to men’s daughters and had children with them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

Why were there Nephilim? Because God's sons which means the angels everywhere else in the Bible and men’s daughters and had children with them.
Period straightforward

Seven Arguments For the Traditional View

Here are seven arguments in support of the traditional view that the “sons of God” were spirit beings who mated with human women and produced the Nephilim:

  1. The phrase “sons of God” elsewhere in the Old Testament refers to spirit beings/angels. The “sons of God” (Genesis 6:2, 4) is a phrase used three other times in the Bible outside of Genesis 6—Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7. In all three of these instances the “sons of God” are spirit/angelic beings, including Satan himself. The use of the phrase in Job suggests that Genesis 6 is speaking of spirits/angels.
  2. Genesis 6:1-2 contrasts the “sons of God” with “man,” implying that these are non-human beings. Genesis 6:1 says that “man began to multiply” and “daughters were born to them.” The Hebrew word for “man” (adam) is the generic term for mankind, as used in Genesis 5:1-2. Nothing in the text suggests that only “some” men (either ungodly men or kings) were having children in Genesis 6:1. Rather, the “sons of God” (v. 2) are contrasted with “man”—thus the “sons of God” were distinct from “man” and were marrying daughters of all mankind. The “sons of God” must therefore be non-human beings of some sort.
  3. The view that the “sons of God” refers to the godly line requires the unlikely explanation that the ungodly women were far more “attractive” than the godly women. Genesis 6:1 only mentions the pursuit of human “daughters” and not sons—“When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them.” The “sons of God” then saw that these women were “attractive” (tovot) and thus took them as their wives (Genesis 6:2). If Genesis 6 is about the intermarriage between the godly line (the Sethites) and the ungodly line (the Cainites), it is odd that only godly men were marrying ungodly women and not ungodly men marrying godly women. Were the godly women just that unattractive? The traditional view offers a much better explanation—as humanity began to multiply, the spirit beings found these human women to be sexually “attractive.”
  4. Immediately following the reference to intermarriage, God says He will judge man because he is “flesh” (Genesis 6:3), implying that humans were trying to become more than normal “flesh” by marrying spirit beings. In Genesis 6:3, God says, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” This suggests vv. 1-2 refer to humans trying to become more than normal human “flesh” and live “forever.” Humans were going along with the intermarriage with spirit beings in the quest for immortality. God says He will not put up with this because humans are mortal (“flesh”), and He therefore decreases their maximum lifespan to 120 years. (This could also mean He will wipe them out with a flood in 120 years.) Ages steadily decline in Genesis 11, and it becomes rare that anyone exceeds 120 years of age.
  5. The context implies that the Nephilim were the resulting offspring of spirit beings and humans. The Nephilim (Hebrew נְּפִלִ֞ים, “fallen ones;” the Greek LXX has γίγαντες, “giants”) in Genesis 6:4 are mysterious characters—“the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.” The text does not explicate how the Nephilim got there. It simply says, “The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them.”[1] But why are the Nephilim mentioned in the same passage as the intermarriage of the “sons of God” and “daughters of man” here in Genesis 6? It is unclear how these mighty men of renown came about if they were not the product of intermarriage between spirit beings and humans.
  6. Jude likely understands Genesis 6:1-4 to refer to the intermarriage between spirit beings and humans. Jude 6 speaks of “angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling.” Unless Jude is speaking of an unknown event, he seems to be referencing the angels of Genesis 6:1-4 who left heaven to live on earth. (Jude seems to be adopting the view of the Apocryphal 1 Enoch 7, which references Genesis 6:1-4 and makes the angel explanation explicit.) This becomes even clearer when Jude compares these angels to the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, “which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire" [literally “other flesh”] (Jude 7). We know that Sodom and Gomorrah sexually pursued “other flesh” in that they practiced homosexuality (Genesis 19:5). (Though “men” in the passage were angels, which could also explain the “other flesh.”) What “other flesh” did angels “likewise” pursue? This only makes sense if Jude is referring to the angels of Genesis 6:1-4 pursuing sexual relations with humans. (Recall Genesis 6:3, where God calls man “flesh.”)
  7. The Bible never rules out the sexual capabilities of spirit beings/angels. The primary objection to the traditional interpretation of Genesis 6:1-4 is that Jesus teaches that angels do not marry. While Jesus does imply that angels do not marry or have sexual relations, notice that Jesus only speaks of angels in heaven and not of fallen angels on earth—“For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven” (Matthew 22:30). Jesus says nothing about the sexual capabilities of angels, leaving open the possibility that they are capable of sexual relations but refrain from such in heaven. Further, the Sodom and Gomorrah story implies that angels have such sexual capabilities. They were at least perceived by the Sodomites as beings that could be raped (Genesis 19:5).
https://knowingscripture.com/articles/who-were-the-sons-of-god-and-the-nephilim-genesis-6-1-4
 






Robin

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This is going to be a long response.



It is not true that the phrase “sons of God” or any other suggestion of God's sons always refers to angels in the Old Testament. Here are a few verses I could find from the Old Testament that say different.

Exodus 4:22-23, "Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord: “Israel is My son, My firstborn.So I say to you, let My son go that he may serve Me. But if you refuse to let him go, indeed I will kill your son, your firstborn.”

1 Chronicles 17:13, "I will be his Father, and he shall be My son; and I will not take My mercy away from him, as I took it from him who was before you."

Psalm 2:7, “I will declare the decree: The Lord has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You."

Hosea 1:10, “Yet the number of the children of Israel Shall be as the sand of the sea, Which cannot be measured or numbered. And it shall come to pass In the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ There it shall be said to them, You are sons of the living God.’ "
The scriptures you gave provide vastly different contexts. In Job, the sons of God are called to give an account of themselves before God's presence -there is no doubt that this refers to angels and not humans.

It is impossible for angels to marry and procreate. That was not an ability God created in them. They have other abilities and powers but marriage and procreation aren't one of them. No creature can develop abilities that God never created in them. Fallen angels did not all of a sudden after sin grow sex organs or genes. They are not above God to do that.
How do you know that? Give me a single scripture where the physiological constraints of angels have been given. As human beings we've been capable of plenty of acts that we should not, by God's edicts, have engaged in. Homosexuality for one -referred to by Paul even as "going against nature". If we could do that why not angels?

If the Bible is silent on a matter that doesn't mean we make something up. The Bible is silent on many things and that's because God did not reveal certain things to us intentionally. Its best not to add things that aren't in the Word of God and contradict it. This is what brings false doctrine into the Church.
For this point to be valid you'd have to prove that angels never had the ability to procreate or have sex and you haven't done that so far. You added that bit in yourself, it seems unless you can cite a single verse to prove otherwise. The only scriptures I've given have come from the biblical cannon.

I've already explained to @Camidria about why God destroyed the earth with the flood. I used God's Word which is not hard to understand in Genesis. God destroyed this earth because of wickedness. The only people He didn't destroy were Noah and His family because they walked with Him. This is the truth of the Bible. The earth was not destroyed because of giants and their genes. Giants existed after the flood too because we read about them in the book of numbers and Samuel.
I never said the earth was destroyed only because of the Nephilim but that there was a special mention of their existence. Why? Why mention specifically that the sons of God conceived children with the daughters of men and that these were great men of distinction?

This is not true nor is it from the Word of God. The World is going to end because of sin. The Bible is so clear about that its hard to miss from Genesis to Revelation. God will destroy the wicked and sin in hell and sin will never exist ever again.
I never stated otherwise so I don't get why you added this.

Angels are spirits with powers and can take on human form and even possess them, but not their procreative abilities. They were not created to procreate and they cannot marry.
Scripture that says they cannot marry? Not don't, but cannot.

Anything that is mentioned in the Bible is mentioned for a reason. Another meaning of "sons of God" in the Bible refers to human beings who have been recreated by God’s Spirit as Ive shown above. Here are a few verses from the New Testament.

Matthew 5:9, “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.”

John 1:12, “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.”

Romans 8:14, “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.”

The term “daughters of men,” used in Genesis 6, refers to the daughters of the unrighteous children of men, or those human beings who do not call on the name of the Lord. In the context of our Bible passage, “daughters of men” refers to the offspring of Cain and his wife.

At first Adam and Eve had two sons, Cain and Abel. Cain murdered Abel, so God gave Adam and Eve another son, Seth. He began to have children of his own, and they “began to call on the name of the LORD” (Genesis 4:25-26). And from what we’ve seen in the Bible, those who call on the name of the Lord are called the sons of God. “And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved” (Acts 2:21).

Cain had been banished from God’s presence after he murdered his brother. He settled “in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch” (Genesis 4:16–18).

So before the Flood, we have the descendants of Cain living in cities and the descendants of Seth living in the country. As long as they remained separate, the sons of God remained pure in their religious beliefs and practices.

However, eventually they began to intermingle. Maybe the sons of God needed supplies that could be more easily obtained in the cities where the daughters of men resided. The sons of God and daughters of men became familiar with each other, even friendly. Whatever the case, soon the godly sons of Seth, or sons of God, captivated by the beautiful daughters of Cain, began to marry these “daughters of men,” the descendants of Cain.

In other words, the sons of God chose to take wives as they desired—women who were pleasing to the flesh—without regard to their moral character. They ignored good advice and likely did not receive the consent of their parents, nor did they consult with God and consider His will in the matter.

All throughout the Bible, God told His people not to marry unbelievers (2 Corinthians 6:14–18). God does not want us to be unequally yoked together with unbelievers even if they have a pretty face and the nicest disposition. God says that relationship will have problems.

So the results of these intermarriages between the sons of God and daughter of men were not only giants, but sorrow. Instead of the sons of God influencing the daughters of men, the daughters of men influenced the sons of God.

Deuteronomy 7:3-4, "Nor shall you make marriages with them. You shall not give your daughter to their son, nor take their daughter for your son. For they will turn your sons away from following Me, to serve other gods; so the anger of the Lord will be aroused against you and destroy you suddenly."

The Bible is filled with stories about the sons of God mingling with the daughters of men and the disasters that follow as a result.

Samson, chosen by God, was derailed by the Philistine women. His parents pled with him to avoid marrying a pagan bride, but he insisted on having what he wanted. “Then his father and mother said to him, ‘Is there no woman among the daughters of your brethren, or among all my people, that you must go and get a wife from the uncircumcised Philistines?’ And Samson said to his father, ‘Get her for me, for she pleases me well’ ” (Judges 14:3).

Likewise, king Solomon no doubt believed that he could marry the daughters from pagan nations and, with his unsurpassed wisdom, convert them. However, those pagan daughters drew away Solomon’s heart. This is why God is so adamant about His children not marrying unbelievers. It is almost always the case that the believer is gradually transformed by the unbeliever, not the other way around.
This is a lot of addition and inference on your part. Nowhere in the bible is "daughters of men" ever used to describe unbelievers. Where did you get that from? Did you forget that Jesus himself was called "Son of man"? What does that mean? Also why only the ungodly women with godly men? Why not the other way?

Jesus likewise has a warning for us in these end-times:

"But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark," (Matthew 24:37-38).

Jesus here is referring to the mixed marriages of Genesis 6 that brought on the universal wickedness leading to the Flood.
Is he not just referring to people carrying on with daily life as though nothing is going to happen and not heeding the warning signs of the end to come? Considering this:

1 Corinthians 7:14
14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy.

As in Noah’s day, before the Flood, things that led to the destruction of the world with a deluge by water are going to happen again. The pre-Flood events are a preview of what’s going to happen before the destruction of the world by a flood of fire when Jesus comes again. History is going to repeat itself, but we don’t have to be among the repeat offenders.
What does this have to do with anything?

The moral of the story in Genesis 6 is not to marry unbelievers.
I again refer you to 1 Corinthians 7:14.

No one is being bound up now, not fallen angels, not any people. Jude is telling us the fate of those who left their first estate and no longer sons of God. Come what may, their doom is sealed.
So what about the correlation between the sexual sin committed by those of Sodom and Gomorrah and the angels? Those who pursued "strange flesh"? If you've addressed this already then I've missed it

A theory of people doesn't make it truth. God's Word makes it truth. In the Bible demons are fallen angels.
Like your theory out the anatomy and reproductive capabilities of angels which is not found anywhere in scripture?

Yes, but Satan is not called a son of God is he?

Job 1:6, "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them."

Job 2:1, "Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord."

Satan is being separated from the sons of God in those verses. Only those who are of God are His sons NOT Satan and his demons.
So who do you think the sons of men are in this passage if not angels? Satan is still an angel, fallen or not.


This is the last time I am going to respond on this subject here. I choose to believe in the Word of God. I believe in the sacred canon of the Bible. God inspired all scripture and controls what goes in it. If a book is not in the Bible it wasn't meant to be. We shouldn't then treat unbiblical scripture as the Word of God. Bye.
You say this almost as though it's some show of arrogant superiority but I haven't quoted anything from anything other than the biblical cannon. You still left several things unaddressed but alright, I'll respect your decision. Bye @phipps and God bless.
 






phipps

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A Giant Problem

It’s a simple law of genetics in play called “genetic vitality.”

First, giants have always been around.

For example, take Robert Wadlow, born in Alton, Illinois, in 1918. At birth he weighed a normal eight pounds, six ounces. At six months, he weighed 30 pounds. A year later, at 18 months, he weighed 62 pounds. He wasn’t fat; he was tall. He continued to grow at an astounding rate, reaching 6 feet, 2 inches and 195 pounds by the time he was eight. When he was 13, he became the world’s tallest Boy Scout. At 13, he was 7 feet, 4 inches tall. Eventually, Robert reached a height of nearly 9 feet! (In comparison, Goliath was about 9 feet, 6 inches.) Robert’s height actually qualified him as the tallest person in modern history.

But this oversize fame wasn’t always easy for him. His clothing required three times the normal amount of cloth, and his size 37 shoes cost thousands of dollars a pair—and that was back during the Great Depression. When Robert turned 20, the International Shoe Company provided his shoes for free and hired him to promote the company. That’s all he did for an income. He visited more than 800 towns in 41 states and travelled 300,000 miles on his goodwill tour. The shoe company had to modify a car so he could get in, removing the front seat so he could sit in the back and stretch out his long legs.

Even though he was of enormous size, he was very good natured, intelligent, and gentle. People were always giving him shocked stares. They would ask him, “Does it bother you when everyone stares at you?” He would reply, “Oh, I just look above it all.” He tried to maintain a normal life, enjoying stamp collecting and photography. He’d even take pictures of people taking pictures of him.

Robert was a modern-day giant, with no need of fallen angels nor aliens to produce him or explain his existence. The giant offspring of the sons of God and daughters of men likely resulted from genetic vitality. When a people group is isolated for years and only intermarry with one another, like some Pacific Islanders do, the gene pool becomes restricted and more prone to birth defects and genetic abnormalities. After several generations of this kind of isolation, when they finally marry outside their island or tribe, the children of those unions tend to be more healthy, robust, and, yes, even bigger. The biggest cats in the world are ligers, a hybrid between tigers and lions.



 






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