Did sin enter the world through Adam, Satan or Yahweh?

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Did sin enter the world through Adam, Satan or Yahweh?

Most, as well as scriptures, say that it was through Adam, even though Christians sing that Adam’s sin was a happy fault and necessary to Yahweh’s plan.

Given the necessity, Adam, from that, may not be the culpable one and his punishment would be unjust.

Satan had already sinned in heaven before being cast into Eden.

It can be truthfully said that she was the first sinner on earth if we ignore Yahweh.

Further, would you say that Eve sinned, given that Satan or the talking serpent deceived her?

That deception would take lies, and that is a sin, and that sin also preceded Adam’s sin.

Many do not see what the serpent says as a lie, which complicates things.

Was the initial sin, regardless of who did it, a happy fault and necessary to god’s plan like Christians sing in their Exultet hymn?

Did Yahweh lie when he told Adam that he would die if he educated himself with the knowledge in the Tree of Knowledge?

Why and how does knowledge kill us?

If it does, should we keep our children as blind to it as Adam and Eve initially were?

The Eden myth can get quite complicated, especially when Christians call it a fall, then say it was necessary so as not to derail Yahweh’s plan.

This last being what the Jews wrote into their myth and which they say is not the Original Sin of the Christian interpretation, but more like the Original virtue that the Jews call it.

The opposite of what Christianity says, if you ignore their happy fault view.

In terms of first sin, I see Yahweh, since sin was necessary to him as the first sinner, followed by Satan, Yahweh’s loyal opposition and teacher of humankind, and then Adam.

Why Eve at the end of Genesis 3 has to then be second class to Adam, --- he shall rule over you, --- would seem like Yahweh punishing the wrong party.

Thoughts?

Regards
DL
 






illuminatimess

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Muslims reject the doctrine of original sin and cannot accept that death ensured; it was a natural process built into creation (23:14-16). They may even quote the Bible that people are responsible for their own deeds: “The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness the wicked will be upon himself” (Ezekiel 18:20). They reason it would be unjust for God to punish all humanity because of Adam’s deed. Sin is not hereditary and no one born a sinner.

Source:http://www.zwemercenter.com/guide/sin-according-to-muslims/

That’s how I see it
 






Lisa

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That’s a lot going on..

First God told Adam not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and told him what would happen if He did. So it was up to Adam to obey God, when He ate and disobeyed that’s when sin came into the perfect world God created.

I don’t believe Adam’s sin was a happy thing because he rebelled against God. I think though that God who knew He would do it already had a way out for us planned.

God is no sinner, however He gave us free will..Adam had the choice whether to eat the fruit, he didn’t have to eat it even though his wife did. His wife wanted to eat the fruit which is why she was easily deceived. And the snake wanted to hurt God and also have company in the lake of fire..

One more thing..God didn't have to save us, He could have justly left us to our punishment.
 






illuminatimess

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That’s a lot going on..

First God told Adam not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and told him what would happen if He did. So it was up to Adam to obey God, when He ate and disobeyed that’s when sin came into the perfect world God created.

I don’t believe Adam’s sin was a happy thing because he rebelled against God. I think though that God who knew He would do it already had a way out for us planned.

God is no sinner, however He gave us free will..Adam had the choice whether to eat the fruit, he didn’t have to eat it even though his wife did. His wife wanted to eat the fruit which is why she was easily deceived. And the snake wanted to hurt God and also have company in the lake of fire..

One more thing..God didn't have to save us, He could have justly left us to our punishment.
You can’t hurt God. If we’re attached with the „original sin“ and have a free will, how does it work? You can’t have a free will when you’re already born with a sin. It’s contradicting
 






Lisa

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You can’t hurt God. If we’re attached with the „original sin“ and have a free will, how does it work? You can’t have a free will when you’re already born with a sin. It’s contradicting
Can you hurt someone who loves you? Or can you hurt someone and also hurt their loved one?

We started out without sin, it was only when Adam and Eve disobeyed God and ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that we became sinners and people were born with a sin nature..meaning that no one had to teach them how to sin.

You can choose to believe God or not. Life is all about choices isn’t it? Free will to choose what you want.
 






illuminatimess

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Can you hurt someone who loves you? Or can you hurt someone and also hurt their loved one?

We started out without sin, it was only when Adam and Eve disobeyed God and ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that we became sinners and people were born with a sin nature..meaning that no one had to teach them how to sin.

You can choose to believe God or not. Life is all about choices isn’t it? Free will to choose what you want.
In that case, you would have already sinned. If God put the sin on us, we wouldn’t have the choice of deciding whether to commit it or not.

Therefore we are born pure.
 






A Freeman

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Revelation 12:7-9
12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon (Lucifer); and the dragon fought and his angels,
12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out to the Earth, and his angels (us - Luke 9:55) were cast out with him (Matthew 25:41).

Listening to Lucifer/Satan/Iblis (the inventor of lies) is what got us banished from heaven to this maximum security prison planet reform school for the criminally insane. The only way back home, to heaven is to stop listening to that liar and start listening to, believing and obeying the "I AM", Who is The Truth.
 






Lisa

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In that case, you would have already sinned. If God put the sin on us, we wouldn’t have the choice of deciding whether to commit it or not.

Therefore we are born pure.
We put the sin on ourselves by disobedience. Adam and Eve didn’t obey God, He let them have the choice and told them the consequences if they didn’t listen. This not only affected them but also us.

We aren’t pure, we are born with the taint of sin. No one has to teach us to sin but we sure need to learn to do right. Because of the taint, sin is easier for us.
 






SquaredCircle

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Did sin enter the world through Adam, Satan or Yahweh?

Most, as well as scriptures, say that it was through Adam, even though Christians sing that Adam’s sin was a happy fault and necessary to Yahweh’s plan.

Given the necessity, Adam, from that, may not be the culpable one and his punishment would be unjust.

Satan had already sinned in heaven before being cast into Eden.

It can be truthfully said that she was the first sinner on earth if we ignore Yahweh.

Further, would you say that Eve sinned, given that Satan or the talking serpent deceived her?

That deception would take lies, and that is a sin, and that sin also preceded Adam’s sin.

Many do not see what the serpent says as a lie, which complicates things.

Was the initial sin, regardless of who did it, a happy fault and necessary to god’s plan like Christians sing in their Exultet hymn?

Did Yahweh lie when he told Adam that he would die if he educated himself with the knowledge in the Tree of Knowledge?

Why and how does knowledge kill us?

If it does, should we keep our children as blind to it as Adam and Eve initially were?

The Eden myth can get quite complicated, especially when Christians call it a fall, then say it was necessary so as not to derail Yahweh’s plan.

This last being what the Jews wrote into their myth and which they say is not the Original Sin of the Christian interpretation, but more like the Original virtue that the Jews call it.

The opposite of what Christianity says, if you ignore their happy fault view.

In terms of first sin, I see Yahweh, since sin was necessary to him as the first sinner, followed by Satan, Yahweh’s loyal opposition and teacher of humankind, and then Adam.

Why Eve at the end of Genesis 3 has to then be second class to Adam, --- he shall rule over you, --- would seem like Yahweh punishing the wrong party.

Thoughts?

Regards
DL
Yahweh is evil no doubt !
 






A Freeman

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In that case, you would have already sinned. If God put the sin on us, we wouldn’t have the choice of deciding whether to commit it or not.

Therefore we are born pure.
Except we weren't brought into this world pure.

Two things MUST be properly understood before it's possible to grasp the real reason for human life on planet Earth, the role sin plays in our development, and our true purpose, i.e. what we should be doing.

1) We are spiritual-Beings (Souls), who have temporarily been incarnated/incarcerated inside of these human-animal bodies (our prison cells) to learn how to be good (Gen. 1:26).

2) This planet is a maximum security prison reform school for the criminally insane (Isa. 42:7).

In our free-state, we conspired with Lucifer (aka Satan/Iblis, the devil, the red dragon, the serpent, the destroyer, the inventor of lies) to overthrow Father (God, The Creator, Whose Name is YHWH in Hebrew or, in English, the "I AM") as The King Ruler of the Universe (Isa. 14:12-17, Rev. 12:3-4, Rev. 12:7-9, Sura 7:11-17, Sura 17:61-65).

We chose of our own free-will to join Lucifer in the coup attempt against Father, and in doing so committed treason.

We agreed to this rehabilitation program here on Earth, in these human-animal bodies, to avoid being executed outright for the capital crime of treason. The question at this point in time is whether we will continue listening to and obeying Lucifer/Satan/Iblis - as we've all been doing for 6000+ years - or whether we will come to our senses and learn to listen to and obey Father ONLY.

Sin = breaking Father's Perfect Law = committing crimes/doing evil against others.
Sinners = lawbreakers = criminals. Someone who habitually sins is therefore a habitual criminal.

Anyone who is advocating that we disobey our Father, is still listening to and obeying Lucifer/Satan/Iblis, who got all of us into this mess with his LIES. It is Lucifer/Satan/Iblis, the inventor of lies, who has conned so many in this world into continuing in open rebellion against Him, even though our eternal lives require but one thing from us: THAT WE REPENT/STOP COMMITTING CRIMES/SINNING AGAINST EACH OTHER AND AGAINST OUR CREATOR AND NEVER LOOK BACK.

The power of Lucifer/Satan/Iblis, who is the temporary ruler of this world, is grossly underestimated by most, if not by all of us. It is Lucifer/Satan/Iblis who we have to thank for all of our governments, organized religions, the legal system, big pharma, the Babylonian market system, and every other evil which is destroying this planet and has us well divided and conquered on every level. All of which is leading us to our eventual destruction.

Learn The Way home or face The Fire. The title is self-explanatory.
 






SquaredCircle

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We put the sin on ourselves by disobedience. Adam and Eve didn’t obey God, He let them have the choice and told them the consequences if they didn’t listen. This not only affected them but also us.

We aren’t pure, we are born with the taint of sin. No one has to teach us to sin but we sure need to learn to do right. Because of the taint, sin is easier for us.
The idea that a god would create man knowing he would sin is one of the most illogical ideas ever perpetrated. Further more if mans choices force gods hands are we not then more powerful than god ?
So let me get this straight . God curses for an infraction , but if a fellow man deceived me into sin Im to forgive him or suffer more punishment from God ? If you read the OT as a book written by Tolkien all of you would be in complete disgust of Yahweh’s behaviour.
 






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Muslims reject the doctrine of original sin and cannot accept that death ensured; it was a natural process built into creation (23:14-16). They may even quote the Bible that people are responsible for their own deeds: “The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness the wicked will be upon himself” (Ezekiel 18:20). They reason it would be unjust for God to punish all humanity because of Adam’s deed. Sin is not hereditary and no one born a sinner.

Source:http://www.zwemercenter.com/guide/sin-according-to-muslims/

That’s how I see it
Nice that you have rejected the idiocy of the Trinity and the notion that people should abdicate their responsibility for their actions and jump on a scapegoat Jesus.

Being a naturalist, I see that we are all born sinners, but not in the biblical sense.

We are evolving creatures who have to both cooperate and compete a appropriate times.

When we cooperate, we see that as good as no loser is created. When we compete, we create a loser who will see his lose as evil visiting him.

All human to human evil is caused by us having to compete to show our fitness. That evil is a small part of the overall good of our continuing to not go extinct.

Regards
DL
 






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First God told Adam not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and told him what would happen if He did. So it was up to Adam to obey God, when He ate and disobeyed that’s when sin came into the perfect world God created.

I don’t believe Adam’s sin was a happy thing because he rebelled against God. I think though that God who knew He would do it already had a way out for us planned.

God is no sinner, however He gave us free will..Adam had the choice whether to eat the fruit, he didn’t have to eat it even though his wife did. His wife wanted to eat the fruit which is why she was easily deceived. And the snake wanted to hurt God and also have company in the lake of fire..

One more thing..God didn't have to save us, He could have justly left us to our punishment.
To your first.
Your bible says god created good, not perfect, so stop adding your interpretation, which s what your own bible tells you to do.

To your second.
Of course god knew Adam would choose knowledge over ignorance. Don't you?

God knew because he knew he was going to put Satan or the talking serpent right there with Eve to insure she ate.
You are rejecting that the sin was a happy fault and necessary to god's plan, while showing how necessary it was as god had Jesus waiting in the wings. Adam would have derailed Yahweh's plan, according to your own words.

So would you not follow Adam's lead or would you not eat of knowledge and derail Yahweh's plan?

To your third.
Job 2;3 has god admitting to being a sinner and doing evil without a cause.
There are many biblical references to Yahweh denying us our free will so your comment is from ignorance and goes against the scriptures. You are not even a 1/4 Christian when you reject accepted and even logical Christian doctrine.

To your last. It is scripture that god cannot die and for you to take substitutional punishment to abdicate your responsibility for your sins is quite immoral and again goes against what Jesus taught, which was that your sins are your responsibility.

Satan has you too well in hand for you to care about that. You are going to hell.

Regards
DL
 






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Messages
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Revelation 12:7-9
12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon (Lucifer); and the dragon fought and his angels,
12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out to the Earth, and his angels (us - Luke 9:55) were cast out with him (Matthew 25:41).

Listening to Lucifer/Satan/Iblis (the inventor of lies) is what got us banished from heaven to this maximum security prison planet reform school for the criminally insane. The only way back home, to heaven is to stop listening to that liar and start listening to, believing and obeying the "I AM", Who is The Truth.
So you think Satan is the creator of the lie concept, while ignoring that scriptures say that all concepts were created by god.

What else was not created by god? Who else is god's co-creator?

Regards
DL
 






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Messages
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We put the sin on ourselves by disobedience. Adam and Eve didn’t obey God, He let them have the choice and told them the consequences if they didn’t listen.
What would be the consequences if A & E had not eaten of knowledge? Would they have remained with their yes closed and without a moral sense and the ability to reproduce?

Or do you see them as gaining reproduction knowledge in some other way?

Regards
DL
 






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