Did Jesus Abolish the law by fulfilling it?

[Tidal]

We are not supposed to shut ourselves away like monks do. We are supposed to use the gifts God gave us to serve Him. We can't do that by shutting ourselves away.

Ah, but monks might defend themselves by quoting these "work" verses-
Jesus said - "The work God requires is to believe in the one he has sent" (John 6:28 )
"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philip 2:12 KJV)

and claim that by shutting themselves away in monasteries they're able to "work" at getting closer to God because they're free from worldly distractions.
How would you answer them?

 

[phipps]

Jesus said he WASN'T God, and God said he's his SON, so what more "studying" does anybody need to understand that?
Here, now argue it out with John too if you like.. -
John the Baptist said- "For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands" (John 3:34-35)

Jesus never said He wasn't God. He would be a liar if He said so and it would be inconsistent with the Bible. The Bible does not contradict itself, people misinterpret it. You certainly have. The Bible can't say Jesus is God then Jesus turn around and say He isn't. That is why I've explained how we study the Bible. I will add we must compare scripture with scripture, letting the Bible explain itself. Otherwise we can build a whole theology upon one single statement of the Bible. This is very dangerous and misleading. The only correct and safe way of securing an understanding of a particular truth is to study everything that the Bible has to say about that specific subject. We must also want to know the truth and when we find truth, we must live up to all the light we have before God will teach us more. The Bible says, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free” (John 8:31-32).

I don't think explaining anything more to you will help (I've tried and you've rejected it) because you don't have the background to understand what you're talking about at all. Now I'm done discussing this with you.

 

[phipps]

Ah, but monks might defend themselves by quoting these "work" verses-
Jesus said - "The work God requires is to believe in the one he has sent" (John 6:28 )
"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philip 2:12 KJV)

and claim that by shutting themselves away in monasteries they're able to "work" at getting closer to God because they're free from worldly distractions.
How would you answer them?

I would explain by showing them our example of Jesus Christ. Jesus did not shut Himself away, He's entire life was an example of service and showing the true character of the Father by going out there and preaching the gospel, healing people etc and then He died on the cross for us so we didn't have to. He commanded the apostles to do the same and they did.

Matthew 28:19-20, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen."

Mark 16:15-16, "And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

Can we do any of that by shutting ourselves away in monasteries?

 

[A Freeman]

Incidentally, regarding "good works", can anybody tell us what that means exactly?
If it means getting out into the world and doing good charity stuff etc, why do monks shut themselves away in monasteries all their life without interacting with the world?

God is Good. Good works are Godly works, i.e. doing what's best for the greater, common-good as defined by God Himself in His Perfect Law of Liberty. It's often overlooked that The Law God gave us to protect us from all of this evil and to set and keep us free contains the following:-

1) the perfect system of government, where there are no banksters or politicians and their made-up money and rules;

2) the perfect system of justice, where there are no attorneys or black-robed judges administering and enforcing satanic policies, and where everyone is taught and knows The Law;

3) the perfect agricultural policy, with no GM crops or chemicals poisoning everything;

4) the perfect economic system ensures there is no crime or poverty; and

5) the perfect healthy diet, which eliminates all life-ending sickness and disease.

So if we kept The Law, the world would be blessed with all of these things, and the true freedom, justice, peace and prosperity that accompany these good works, along with the safety and security that only God can provide.

In secluding themselves from the world, the monks deprive themselves of the necessary lessons and tests which can only be experienced through real life interactions with others. That not only keeps them from advancing spiritually, but also does nothing to help neutralize all the evil (sin) in this world with good.

It should be self-evident that our ONLY Example: THE Master/Teacher (Christ), Whom Father (God) sent, went out in the world and fed the multitudes (both spiritually and physically), healed the sick (both spiritually and physically), and raised the dead back to life (again, both spiritually and physically), so we should be doing the same.

 

[Tidal]

Jesus never said He wasn't God....

Perhaps you're consulting a fringe bible version? Or you perhaps belong to an offshoot christian cult?
I'm non-denominational myself and I use the double-whammy of the KJV for it's fearlessness and the NIV for its modern language.
So when Jesus said- "I don't know when judgement day is, only God knows" (Mark 13:32)
and when Stephen said- “Look, I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.” (Acts 7:6)

it's pretty obvious that Jesus and God were two separate entities, so you'd better take it up with them when you meet them.

 

[phipps]

Perhaps you're consulting a fringe bible version? Or you perhaps belong to an offshoot christian cult?
I'm non-denominational myself and I use the double-whammy of the KJV for it's fearlessness and the NIV for its modern language.

So when Jesus said- "I don't know when judgement day is, only God knows", it's pretty obvious that he wasn't God, so you'd better take it up with him when you meet him..

You are so wrong and ignorant on this subject but yet you think you're not. Goodbye.

 

[Tidal]

Ytou are so ignorant but yet you think you're not on this subject. Goodbye.

AARGH! Calling people "ignorant" is perilously close to false witness so be careful or it's the naughty step for you..
PS- I'm a 71-year-old Christian Evangelist with 19 years of internet debate and discussion behind me and get excellent feedback from my army of fans around internetland..

 

[A Freeman]

Jesus never said He wasn't God. He would be a liar if He said so and it would be inconsistent with the Bible.

@phipps - you do Father (God), yourself and others a great service by sharing the importance of keeping His Law/Commandments. However, you do yourself and others a huge disservice by falsely claiming that Jesus was or is God, which is not found anywhere in Scriptures.

The Bible does not contradict itself, people misinterpret it.

Correct. And anyone who believes the Bible as claiming Jesus was or is God is clearly misinterpreting it. One would literally need to redefine what the words father, son, firstborn, greater than, one, Invisible, image, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, creature and even what the word "word" means (among many others) to believe such an obvious misinterpretation.

You certainly have. The Bible can't say Jesus is God then Jesus turn around and say He isn't.

But it doesn't say Jesus is God ANYWHERE in it, does it?

That is why I've explained how we study the Bible. I will add we must compare scripture with scripture, letting the Bible explain itself.

IF that's what you're doing, how would you explain away having to redefine all of the above terms to make your mistaken belief that Jesus is supposedly God work? How do you explain that Christ, through the mouth of Jesus, referred to Himself as the "Son of Man" over 80 times when God clearly stated He could NEVER be the son of man (Num 23:19)?

Otherwise we can build a whole theology upon one single statement of the Bible. This is very dangerous and misleading. The only correct and safe way of securing an understanding of a particular truth is to study everything that the Bible has to say about that specific subject.

Agreed. Unfortunately, that's exactly what so-called Christianity has done in adopting the pagan Babylonian mystery religion of Roman Catholicism, with its pagan Babylonian 3=1 delusion. Worse yet, there are obvious insertions and intentional mistranslations the RCC has made, which are easily exposed with the least bit of scrutiny. A few examples? Matthew 28:19, 1 John 5:6-8, Phil. 2:6.

We must also want to know the truth and when we find truth, we must live up to all the light we have before God will teach us more. The Bible says, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free” (John 8:31-32)

Please consider that following a pagan deity (the "trinity") instead of God is actually breaking the First Commandment. And so is claiming Jesus is God, when no such claim was ever made anywhere throughout Scriptures.

The First Commandment is the most important of them all, which is why it's FIRST. So breaking it while telling others to obey God's Law/Commandments, is NOT wise. Are you able to accept this correction in the loving manner in which it is intended or is your heart already too hard to do so please?

One final question: Why would Jesus teach His disciples to pray to His Father - Who art in heaven - IF Jesus was actually God? Wouldn't He tell everyone to pray to Himself (Jesus) or to pray to "the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" IF there really was a so-called trinity?

 

[Tidal]

Jesus did not shut Himself away, He's entire life was an example of service and showing the true character of the Father by going out there and preaching the gospel, healing people etc.....
Can we do any of that by shutting ourselves away in monasteries?

I'm going to email a few monks to see what they say, and I'll post their replies in this thread if I get any..

Personally I think these two verses take absolute priority over doing worldly work--
"The work God requires is to believe in the one he has sent" (John 6:28 )
"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philip 2:12 KJV)

For example my late dad was a workaholic (literally) and ended up half-nutty and riddled with demons because he neglected his spiritual welfare.
The moral seems to be by all means work hard if that's what floats your boat, but at the same time don't let it dominate your life, and know when and how to relax.
After all, God gave us the sabbath as a rest day to recharge our spiritual batteries and emphasised how vitally important it was by making it one of the 10 Commandments.

 

[phipps]

God’s law is not bondage

True liberty is not freedom from law. True freedom can be found only within the law. Righteous laws secure and guarantee freedom. “But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work,” wrote the apostle James, “this one will be blessed in what he does” (James 1:25).

James called God’s commandments the “law of liberty,” not a form of slavery. He said one who obeys is blessed; his life is one of happiness and peace.

The law of God is not a straitjacket; it doesn’t restrain freedom. It is a way of life that guarantees the welfare of the individual and of society. “Great peace have those who love Your law, And nothing causes them to stumble" (Psalms 119:165).

When God brought the Israelites out of Egypt, He did not deliver them from one form of slavery into another. He liberated them from a society in which they had no protection through law. The Egyptian code of law did not provide freedom for the Israelites. It did not protect them from evil treatment nor guarantee their security. Israel was abused and oppressed.

God delivered His people from these cruelties and gave them a law that would guarantee their safety and protection. “Now, O Israel, listen to the statutes and the judgments which I teach you to observe, that you may live …” (Deuteronomy 4:1). It was a perfect law (Psalms 19:7).

Link

 

[phipps]

The Law: A Reflection of God’s Character

There is much misunderstanding about God’s law. Some feel all or parts of it are irrelevant today. But understanding what the law is shows we must keep it.

The subject of God’s law is controversial among the churches that call themselves Christian. In the professing Christian world, there is much confusion and division about God’s law. Some churches reject the law wholesale, while others reject portions of it. Here are some arguments people use to say the law is irrelevant today:

• Jesus fulfilled the law so we don’t have to keep it.
• The law was only for ancient Israel.
• The law is only for Jews today.
• The law was only for those under the Old Covenant.
• The law is not for the present dispensation.
• The law is a burden Christ came to free us from.
• The law brings a curse on those who try to keep it.
• Christ was the “end” of the law.
• Trying to keep the law is legalistic.
• The law is totally unrelated to salvation.
• We are saved by grace alone and don’t need the law.
• Love, not law, is all we need.

This list could continue with many similar arguments against God’s law. These reasons all have one thing in common: They teach that the law has no purpose in a Christian’s life. But is this true? Or is there a purpose for the law that is far greater than many realize?

The Bible’s description of God’s law

A study of the Bible shows that God’s law is described very positively in both the Old and New Testaments. In fact, there are whole passages that are about the many benefits of the law. (Read Psalm 119, for example.)

But what is fascinating when you study God’s law is that many of the characteristics of the law found throughout the Bible actually correspond to characteristics used to describe God.

Why would the Bible use so many of the same characteristics to describe both God and the law? Is there something important we can learn from this?

Link

 

[phipps]

The law is a mirror of God’s character

The obvious implication of these similar characteristics is that the law reveals the actual character (or characteristics) of God. When we study the law, we are learning the way God thinks and behaves. When we keep the law, we are living like God. Both God and the law are best summed up as “love” (1 John 4:8; Romans 13:10).

We could think of the law as a mirror of God’s character.

The apostle James uses the analogy of a mirror to describe God’s law. He compares “a man observing his natural face in a mirror” to “he who looks into the perfect law of liberty” (James 1:23, 25). Just like a mirror reveals dirt on our face, so, too, the law reveals our sins—the areas where we fall short of thinking and acting like God (Romans 7:7).

This analogy reveals something the law was not designed to do (which many incorrectly claim does away with the law): The mirror (the law) cannot clean the dirt (our sin). Only the forgiveness of God through Jesus Christ’s sacrifice can wipe away our sins!

Another thing the mirror (the law) was not designed to do is to keep us clean. It defines what clean is! But, thankfully, under the New Covenant God has a way to do this: “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them” (Hebrews 10:16).

The New Covenant promises that the law (God’s character) will be written on the hearts and minds of Christians through the Holy Spirit (Ezekiel 36:27; 1 Corinthians 2:11)!

The character of God

God’s very own character is revealed in His law. Consider some of the things that the 10 Commandments reveal about God’s character:

The Bible is very clear that Christians are to become godly—like God (Matthew 5:48; 1 John 2:6). He has not left us in the dark about how to be like Him. By internalizing and keeping the law of God, we become more like God every day.


Link

 

[A Freeman]

We are also told, in Christ's Revelation to John, that only those who learn to sing the "New Song" will be redeemed from the Earth.

Revelation 14:3 And they sung as it were a New Song (Isaiah 42:10) before the Throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that "Song" except the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the Earth.

So what is the "New Song"? It is the Song of Moses (The Law/Old Covenant) and the Song of the Lamb (the Gospel/New Covenant) which, when correctly understood are in perfect harmony with one another.

Revelation 15:3 And they sing the "Song of Moses" (Old Covenant - Deut. 31) the servant of God, AND the "Song of the Lamb" (New Covenant), saying, Great and marvellous [are] Thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true [are] Thy Ways, Thou King of the holy people.

Deuteronomy 31:9-12, 19-22, 29-30
31:9 And Moses wrote this Law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare The Ark of The Covenant of the "I AM", and unto all the elders of Israel.
31:10 And Moses commanded them, saying, At the end of [every] seven years, in the solemnity of The Year of Release, in the Feast of Tabernacles,
31:11 When all Israel is come to appear before the "I AM" thy God in the place which He shall choose, thou shalt read this Law before all Israel in their hearing.
31:12 Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that [is] within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the "I AM" your God, and observe to do all the words of this Law:

31:19 Now therefore write ye this "Song" for you, and teach it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this "Song" (Covenant) may be a witness for Me against the children of Israel.
31:20 For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, that floweth with milk and honey; and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxen fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and provoke Me, and break My Covenant.
31:21 And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this "Song" (Covenant) shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware [unto their fathers to give them].
31:22 Moses therefore wrote this "Song" (Covenant) the same day, and taught it the children of Israel.

31:29 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt [yourselves], and turn aside from The Way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the "I AM", to provoke Him to anger through the work of your hands.
31:30 And Moses spoke in the ears of all the congregation of Israel the Words of this "Song" (Covenant), until they were ended.

 

[A Freeman]

Regarding the Song of the Lamb (the Gospel and New Covenant)

Jesus came to abolish the priesthood except for himself alone as the sole representative of the priesthood, being both High-Priest and King, after the order of Melchizedek.

He told his followers including the apostles and it is written in the Gospel of Matthew, that they must not be priests (rabbi) and must not be called father:-

23:8 But be not ye called priest (etc.): for One is your Teacher, [even] Christ; and all ye are brethren.
23:9 And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, [even] Christ.

Jesus told his TRUE followers, and it is written, again in Matthew, that they must NOT go to church and must NOT pray in church or in public, as the hypocrites DO.

6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt NOT be as the hypocrites [ARE]: for they love to pray standing in the churches and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. (They wanted to be seen by men and they have been).
6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and WHEN THOU HAST SHUT THY DOOR, pray to thy Father in private (telepathically); and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. (Because He will answer you because you obeyed His instructions about how to do it, and when He does you will be so amazed that everyone will notice the change in you).

Therefore the parts of The Old Covenant that relate to the priesthood, churches and the animal sacrifices, for redemption from sin, are now OBSOLETE (see also Eph. 2:15, Col. 2:14).

So how does this affects the "Song of Moses" written in Deuteronomy? It does not affect the national and moral Law, in any way, exactly as Jesus himself stated clearly, and it is written, again in the Gospel of Matthew:-

5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy The Law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no way pass from The Law, till all be fulfilled.
5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least COMMANDments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of heaven.
5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall EXCEED [the righteousness] of the lawyers and politicians (who were also priests because the church and the state were one at that time), ye shall in NO case enter into the Kingdom of heaven.

Therefore the death penalty for certain crimes (including idolatry) still stands today along with the rest of The Law as a deterrent to the committing of those crimes. If the deterrent is removed then those crimes will automatically be committed, and increase, along with a breakdown of order, leading to even more crime.

Exactly as has happened under our current system of fraudulent man-made legislation, rules, policies, "codes", etc., which are strictly prohibited under The Law (Deut. 4:2, Deut. 12:32) because of the oppression, injustice, poverty and crime they always create.

 

[Lisa]

Since we come to to God by grace through faith...why would we need to keep the law afterwards? Jesus fulfilled our obligation to the law and when we believe..

Ephesians‬ ‭2:4-9‬ ‭
But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.​

‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9‬ ‭
realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane.

Romans‬ ‭8:2-4‬ ‭
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
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[A Freeman]

Since we come to to God by grace through faith...why would we need to keep the law afterwards?

So you think you can show Christ your gratitude for His Sacrifice by making the world MORE evil than it already is? Christ came to destroy sin (breaking The Law - 1 John 3:4), NOT to multiply it.

1 John 3:4-10
3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also The Law: for sin is the transgression of The Law.
3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our (past) sins; and in him is no sin.
3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he (Christ) is righteous.
3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the Beginning. FOR THIS PURPOSE THE SON OF GOD WAS MANIFESTED, THAT HE MIGHT DESTROY THE WORKS OF THE DEVIL (sin).
3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever DOETH NOT righteousness is NOT of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

How can anyone honestly claim they are "coming to God" by continuing to do the works of the devil (sin/break The Law)?

Jesus fulfilled our obligation to the law and when we believe..

The Sacrifice of the Lamb of God was to pay for our PAST sins, NOT to give us the freedom to sin/break The Law (do evil to one another) with impunity.

Romans 3:24-25
3:24 Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
3:25 Whom God hath fore-ordained [to be] an atonement through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins THAT ARE PAST, through the forbearance of God;

Ephesians‬ ‭2:4-9‬ ‭
But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.​

Ephesians 2:10
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them (do them - good works - keep The Law).
​

‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9‬ ‭
realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane.

Romans‬ ‭8:2-4‬ ‭
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
‭‭​

Christ CONDEMNED SIN/BREAKING THE LAW. How could The Law be fulfilled in us if we continue to walk according to SINFUL flesh? How could anyone claim to be led by the Spirit and continue to willfully break The Law?

The ONLY Way to fulfill the requirement of The Law is TO KEEP IT.

1 John 2:3-6
2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, IF we keep His Commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth NOT His Commandments, is a LIAR, and the truth is NOT in him.
2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Walk the walk...follow Christ's Example...keep The Law.

Those who will not LIVE by The Law, will die by The Law (Ezek. 18:4, 20, Rom. 6:23).

Malachi 4
4:1 For, behold, the Day cometh, that shall burn like an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the "I AM" Lord of hosts, that it shall leave of them neither root nor branch (nothing).
4:2 But unto you that fear My name shall the Sun of Righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in The Day that I shall do [this], saith the "I AM" Lord of hosts.
4:4 Remember ye and return to The Law of Moses My servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, [with] the Statutes and Judgments.
4:5 Behold, I will send you EliJAH the Prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful Day of the "I AM" (Sura 43:61):
4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse (see verse 1 for details of the curse).

 

[Lisa]

How can anyone honestly claim they are "coming to God" by continuing to do the works of the devil (sin/break The Law)?

If you are saved by grace through faith...why once your saved do you have to obey the law when you couldn’t obey it in the first place? That’s not a license to sin though.

Romans‬ ‭6:15-19‬ ‭
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.​

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[A Freeman]

If you are saved by grace through faith...why once your saved do you have to obey the law when you couldn’t obey it in the first place? That’s not a license to sin though.

That's double-speak, or speaking out of both sides of your mouth, or speaking with a forked tongue, or cognitive dissonance, or whatever you wish to call it. James referred to it as being "double-minded".

One is either abiding by The Law (keeping it and enforcing it) or they aren't. There is no middle ground.

Romans‬ ‭6:15-19‬ ‭
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.​

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When Paul says "under The Law" he is referring to being under "the Curse of The Law" (see Deut. 28:15-68), which is the penalty clause for not keeping The Law (continuing in sin). Please read the passage above with that in mind. The entire passage is talking about sanctifying ourselves by keeping The Law, as Christ teaches.

Christ redeemed us from bondage/slavery to sin, giving us a new lease on life. If we sell ourselves back into bondage during this grace period we've been given to come to our senses, then we will join Satan in The Fire on Judgement Day, exactly as we've been warned for thousands of years.

 

[Lisa]

That's double-speak, or speaking out of both sides of your mouth, or speaking with a forked tongue, or cognitive dissonance, or whatever you wish to call it. James referred to it as being "double-minded".

One is either abiding by The Law (keeping it and enforcing it) or they aren't. There is no middle ground.

How is it double speak...we aren’t saved by the law but by grace through faith. Why would we then have to go back to the law if we weren’t saved by it?

Paul tells us that we are all being sanctified...that doesn’t include being beholden to the law, we can’t keep the law anyway..

 

[phipps]

Revelation 14:12, "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

When it comes to the Law, like all other subjects in the Bible, we've only just scratched the surface. We don't fully understand what it means and stands for but God has revealed a lot in His Word. There is not doubt about it, being a Christian means we have to obey God's commandments. All of them (including the sabbath one) just as Christ did. Not only did Christ obey, He made it very clear we too have to obey the commandments.

Throughout His ministry Jesus taught the importance of God’s commandments. Christ said, “If you want to enter into [eternal] life, keep the commandments.” He made sure everyone knew He meant the 10 Commandments by naming several of them in this passage of Scripture (Matthew 19:16-19).

After His death and resurrection, the apostles also taught the necessity of keeping the commandments. John stated that keeping God’s law is one of the identifying characteristics of a Christian. “Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, ‘I know Him,’ and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him” (1 John 2:3-4).

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus upheld the commandments and magnified their application and intent. Understanding the commandments and obeying them is the basis for a relationship with Christ. It begins with repentance and accepting Christ as Saviour. Repentance means understanding that we have done wrong and that we are truly sorry for having broken God’s laws. Paul said that having knowledge of the commandments brings an awareness of what sin is (Romans 7:7). The apostle John defines sin as breaking or not keeping the commandments (1 John 3:4).

Jesus said, "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:19). Meaning those who persist in lawbreaking and teach others to break God’s law will not be in the Kingdom of heaven at all. Jesus makes it very clear in His Word that those who follow Him and hope to make it to His Kingdom, have to obey and uphold God’s law.

I will end with a hymn I grew up singing called Trust and obey. Part of the lyrics say, "there is no other way to be happy in Jesus but to trust and obey." We are happy when we do God's will. Happy Sabbath to all.