Did God......

Serveto

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Well I think what's amazing in this thread is how people are even describing the three deities of the Trinity as having different attributes, characteristics, personalities etc.

I had thought before that Christians generally describe the Trinity as three aspects of one God but in this thread it is like I'm reading explanation of some sort of Hindu-like system. Obviously, some sort of polytheistic pantheon is being described.
It is interesting, in this respect, to research and read how Christian missionaries have historically evangelized strictly monotheistic Muslims (and many non-Christian Jews) versus Hindus. Hindus have an ancient tradition of "emanations" of and from the "godhead," rather like Jewish Kabbalists, with their Sefirot, and neo-platonic (Alexandrian) Greeks, with their "Logos" and other philosophies, and do not present as much objection to the concept of the Trinity as such, but rather claim that theirs was the first and most authentic (speaking generally, of course). Consider, for instance, how different would be the argument, or presentation, of the Christian gospels to somebody who says the following instead of the typical and usual objections from the Islamic side of the aisle ...


"The concept of avatar, made popular by the Vaishnava tradition, is a very unique to Hinduism. It sets apart Hinduism from other religions because it not only vouches the intervention of God in human affairs indirectly through such means as prophets, messengers, sages and seers but also at times directly as an incarnated being. An incarnation connects God to people in a very personal and emotional way. It rekindles in them a sense of hope and possibility in the face of suffering and adversity. To be in the presence of God physically and to be part of His divine drama on earth is a devotee's most cherished dream which an incarnation of God makes possible. It is said that if a few pure souls joint their hearts and minds and sincerely pray to God to incarnate upon earth to eradicate evil, He would do so."
source
 
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Thunderian

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You won't find one Christian who considers God the Father and Jesus Christ to be partners. Islam insists on getting this wrong, despite it being explained to them on this board alone at least a hundred times.

I think the main reason for their continuing willful ignorance has more to do with the fact that Islam as a religion is mostly (other than the parts about going to the bathroom) a reaction to Christianity, and not an expression of divine truth or even an organic false religion. Islam needs Christianity to have any meaning, and you would think they'd take the time to understand what is meant by the Trinity, but they just keep preaching what an objectionable thing it is to ascribe partners to God, as if Christians actually do that.

As it stands, you'd think Muslims would be a little nervous about broaching the whole subject of monotheism, what with the whole Satanic verses thing.
 

floss

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I thought God was a being though.

Ok so if your idea of God is comprised of, as you said, three separate beings... then aren't you a polytheist? They aren't one being... three beings is more than one so it can't be classified as "mono".

If they each have their own distinct characteristics and divine functions and are separate beings... that's kind of like having three Gods. Even though they cooperate with each other, they're still three separate deities/beings as you said. They can't be separate and distinct but connected and identical at the same time... three can't be one while still being three.

I think the trinity can be considered a mild form of polytheism.... there's really nothing wrong with that, polytheist isn't an insult. People can believe in what they want. But believing in and worshiping three separate divine beings is pretty much polytheism by definition...
You’re too focus on the numerical value of one. Think of ONE as “The ONE and ONLY TRUTH”, so when we say we worship ONE GOD, we worship the ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD. It would be polytheism if we worship the ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD (Father, Son, HS) AND some other false gods like buddha, shiva, great blue sky...etc

There is only ONE TRUE GOD existed, hopefully this clear it up. If not then you need to be born again and allow the Holy Ghost to teach and verify this for you as this “might” be the only way to understand the true nature of God.
 

Dalit

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You won't find one Christian who considers God the Father and Jesus Christ to be partners. Islam insists on getting this wrong, despite it being explained to them on this board alone at least a hundred times.

I think the main reason for their continuing willful ignorance has more to do with the fact that Islam as a religion is mostly (other than the parts about going to the bathroom) a reaction to Christianity, and not an expression of divine truth or even an organic false religion. Islam needs Christianity to have any meaning, and you would think they'd take the time to understand what is meant by the Trinity, but they just keep preaching what an objectionable thing it is to ascribe partners to God, as if Christians actually do that.

As it stands, you'd think Muslims would be a little nervous about broaching the whole subject of monotheism, what with the whole Satanic verses thing.
Hey, Salman Rushdie got a fatwa for writing Satanic Verses. That's quite telling. His writing is pretty good actually.
 

DesertRose

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Whom do these people pray to when they get on their knees? a partner.
Who do they pray to when they are distressed? a partner.
Who makes their laws? many partners.
Their religious people plus the enlightenment thinkers.

9:31
They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah, and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him.

12:40
You worship not besides Him except [mere] names you have named them, you and your fathers, for which Allah has sent down no authority. Legislation is not but for Allah . He has commanded that you worship not except Him. That is the correct religion, but most of the people do not know.

2: 165
And [yet], among the people are those who take other than Allah as equals [to Him]. They love them as they [should] love Allah . But those who believe are stronger in love for Allah . And if only they who have wronged would consider [that] when they see the punishment, [they will be certain] that all power belongs to Allah and that Allah is severe in punishment.
 

Dalit

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I chose not to use a blasphemous statement for my title! Hence the "...".

Now.

I ask the question, Christians who believe Jesus (PBUH) is God-

did God use the bathroom?
Just because I'm genuinely curious, when you use PBUH regarding Jesus are you referring to Jesus in respect or do you think Jesus is Mohammad?
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Hey, Salman Rushdie got a fatwa for writing Satanic Verses. That's quite telling. His writing is pretty good actually.
"Islam strongly opposes idolatry, polytheism, associating anything or anyone with God. In fact, Islam's creed in Arabic begins with a negative: Not is there a god except God. It contrasts sharply with the contention of Muhammad's Arab contemporaries that God had associates. Some of these associates are even mentioned in the Qur'an, among them three female deities: al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat. Each had a shrine in separate places not far from Mecca in Arabia, where Muhammad was born and began his mission.

The Qur'an, as it now reads, obviously rejects these deities. But—and here comes the issue—did the Qur'an and Muhammad always reject them?"

https://radicaltruth.net/index.php/learn/muhammad/31-what-are-the-satanic-verses
 

TempestOfTempo

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I chose not to use a blasphemous statement for my title! Hence the "...".

Now.

I ask the question, Christians who believe Jesus (PBUH) is God-

did God use the bathroom?
So you are now filling the role of a Muslim-Dumbdarian? At least you left the actual provocation in the title instead of intentionally mis-labeling the thread in order to rook posters into a conflict-fest. At least you were honest from the jump and let everyone know this is an intentional argument zone right off the bat.
 

mecca

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It would be polytheism if we worship the ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD (Father, Son, HS) AND some other false gods like buddha, shiva, great blue sky...etc
No that doesn’t make sense. First of all you have no proof for declaring other people’s religions as false and yours as the one true way... that’s just your opinion. And second, that’s not what polytheism means. Polytheists worship multiple divine beings within their own religious theology... not different gods from completely different religions. You told me yourself that the father, son, and Holy Spirit are three separate beings with different traits and functions. Those are three separate dieties regarded as god within mainstream Christianity. This aligns with the definition of polytheism, you said you’re worshipping three beings, not just one. It’s simply more accurate to describe that as a mild form of polytheism.
 

DesertRose

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May God guide all to the truth. Ameen.

A Brief Refutation of the Gharaniq (Satanic Verses) Claim
https://callingchristians.com/2015/11/11/a-brief-refutation-of-the-gharaniq-satanic-verses-claim/

Repeat for those who think we do not understand what partner means:
Whom do these people pray to when they get on their knees? a partner.
Who do they pray to when they are distressed? a partner.
Who makes their laws? many partners.
Their religious people plus the enlightenment thinkers.

9:31
They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah, and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him.

12:40
You worship not besides Him except [mere] names you have named them, you and your fathers, for which Allah has sent down no authority. Legislation is not but for Allah . He has commanded that you worship not except Him. That is the correct religion, but most of the people do not know.

2: 165
And [yet], among the people are those who take other than Allah as equals [to Him]. They love them as they [should] love Allah . But those who believe are stronger in love for Allah . And if only they who have wronged would consider [that] when they see the punishment, [they will be certain] that all power belongs to Allah and that Allah is severe in punishment.
 

floss

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No that doesn’t make sense. First of all you have no proof for declaring other people’s religions as false and yours as the one true way... that’s just your opinion. And second, that’s not what polytheism means. Polytheists worship multiple divine beings within their own religious theology... not different gods from completely different religions. You told me yourself that the father, son, and Holy Spirit are three separate beings with different traits and functions. Those are three separate dieties regarded as god within mainstream Christianity. This aligns with the definition of polytheism, you said you’re worshipping three beings, not just one. It’s simply more accurate to describe that as a mild form of polytheism.
Believe what you will Mecca, one day you will meet your maker, JESUS. Then you can call Him a polytheist. Later
 

DesertRose

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I would like to make a statement:)
I was examining the spread of Satanism in the west and it is alarming.
One of the videos I posted at the Army of Satan thread discusses how in Orange County, Florida they are now spreading satanic coloring books in response to an attempt by a Christian group to spread bibles.
Do you want your kids to be exposed to their coloring books or ideas?
I signed a petition this year because they were trying to stop a Christian who was preaching a moral issue. We signed this is a community in support of the Christian.

Muslims can not and will not ever hate Christians (unless they oppress us) It is against our faith.
Christians have let the secular scholars make laws and have power.
i.e Masonic separation of church and state.
I think it is time for people to realize that the all faiths are in the cross-hairs and that they pit us against each other while they sit back and reap the rewards.
We need to stop the growing problems of Satanic thought.
They are playing with all thought and bringing forth their ideas of
1. moral relativism ( mixing up what is right or wrong)
2. gender neutral agendas (their bapho 'whatever' is trans)
3. acceptance of economic chains usury (interest)
4. Spread of wars (need people to be fearful, confused)
among other things.
Most importantly they need to pit Christians against Muslims and other faith groups when we should all be against oppression.
Stop falling for knee jerk racism, hatred and the oppression of 'the other".
Stop being their tools. These are counterproductive strategies .
Stop their 'Divide and Rule' tactics.

49:6
O you who have believed, if there comes to you a disobedient one with information, investigate, lest you harm a people out of ignorance and become, over what you have done, regretful.
 

TokiEl

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I would like to make a statement:)
I was examining the spread of Satanism in the west and it is alarming.
One of the videos I posted at the Army of Satan thread discusses how in Orange County, Florida they are now spreading satanic coloring books in response to an attempt by a Christian group to spread bibles.
Do you want your kids to be exposed to their coloring books or ideas?
I signed a petition this year because they were trying to stop a Christian who was preaching a moral issue. We signed this is a community in support of the Christian.

Muslims can not and will not ever hate Christians (unless they oppress us) It is against our faith.
Christians have let the secular scholars make laws and have power.
i.e Masonic separation of church and state.
I think it is time for people to realize that the all faiths are in the cross-hairs and that they pit us against each other while they sit back and reap the rewards.
We need to stop the growing problems of Satanic thought.
They are playing with all thought and bringing forth their ideas of
1. moral relativism ( mixing up what is right or wrong)
2. gender neutral agendas (their bapho 'whatever' is trans)
3. acceptance of economic chains usury (interest)
4. Spread of wars (need people to be fearful, confused)
among other things.
Most importantly they need to pit Christians against Muslims and other faith groups when we should all be against oppression.
Stop falling for knee jerk racism, hatred and the oppression of 'the other".
Stop being their tools. These are counterproductive strategies .
Stop their 'Divide and Rule' tactics.
That is a great statement and for sure we have been played by those who govern the nations. They have an agenda to split pit and reduce the population by any means possible and enslave the rest.

And many are playing along because of pay and promotion so if not for God they would accomplish this.

Now i know and many with me that God is actually Jesus Christ... true He has a Father but who hasn't ? And He will return and put an end to this wet new world order dream of those who destroy our earth and ourselves.
 

Dalit

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So you are now filling the role of a Muslim-Dumbdarian? At least you left the actual provocation in the title instead of intentionally mis-labeling the thread in order to rook posters into a conflict-fest. At least you were honest from the jump and let everyone know this is an intentional argument zone right off the bat.
Hey, don't call him dumb.

According to the great (terrible) movie The Interview Kim Jong Un doesn't use the bathroom. It just evaporates.
 

Todd

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Believe what you will Mecca, one day you will meet your maker, JESUS. Then you can call Him a polytheist. Later
Or @mecca will meet Jesus, who will reveal to mecca that as Messiah, his role and function was to mediate between us and God and that by his work on the Cross he made a way for all men to be reconciled to God. Even if Mecca never understands or accept Christ's role as the lamb of God or mediator in this lifetime, I have full faith that mecca will in the ages to come. Christ will confirm that mecca was correct in questioning the trinity when Christ submits the kingdom that God gave to him back to the Father. When Jesus turns the kingdom over to God so that God can be become all in all, mecca will understand that Jesus demonstrates the perfect example of what Muslims are trying to attain....submission to God!

Then Jesus will hold accountable, every Christian who defended the trinity to Mecca, as becoming a stumbling block to Mecca and every other Muslim that desires to submit to the will of God. I pray and hope that maybe I will get to be one of the many that God uses in the ages to come, to take the leaves of the tree of life and bring healing to all the Muslims that truly love God.

Just a thought....
 
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TempestOfTempo

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Hey, don't call him dumb.

According to the great (terrible) movie The Interview Kim Jong Un doesn't use the bathroom. It just evaporates.
Its like they are two peas in a pod.... completely antagonistic peas, but they are a lot more similar than they would like to believe lol
 

mecca

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Or @mecca will meet Jesus, who will reveal to mecca that as Messiah, his role and function was to mediate between us and God and that by his work on the Cross he made a way for all men to be reconciled to God. Even if Mecca never understands or accept Christ's role as the lamb of God or mediator in this lifetime, I have full faith that mecca will in the ages to come. Christ will confirm that mecca was correct in questioning the trinity when Christ submits the kingdom that God gave to him back to the Father. When Jesus turns the kingdom over to God so that God can be become all in all, mecca will understand that Jesus demonstrates the perfect example of what Muslims are trying to attain....submission to God!

Then Jesus will hold accountable, every Christian who defended the trinity to Mecca, as becoming a stumbling block to Mecca and every other Muslim that desires to submit to the will of God. I pray and hope that maybe I will get to be one of the many that God uses in the ages to come, to take the leaves of the tree of life and bring healing to all the Muslims that truly love God.

Just a thought....
Lol
 

Etagloc

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Just because I'm genuinely curious, when you use PBUH regarding Jesus are you referring to Jesus in respect or do you think Jesus is Mohammad?
Jesus PBUH was a Prophet. I invite you to read a translation of the Quran (I recommend the Yusuf Ali translation) and learn about the true religion.
 

Etagloc

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Or @mecca will meet Jesus, who will reveal to mecca that as Messiah, his role and function was to mediate between us and God and that by his work on the Cross he made a way for all men to be reconciled to God. Even if Mecca never understands or accept Christ's role as the lamb of God or mediator in this lifetime, I have full faith that mecca will in the ages to come. Christ will confirm that mecca was correct in questioning the trinity when Christ submits the kingdom that God gave to him back to the Father. When Jesus turns the kingdom over to God so that God can be become all in all, mecca will understand that Jesus demonstrates the perfect example of what Muslims are trying to attain....submission to God!

Then Jesus will hold accountable, every Christian who defended the trinity to Mecca, as becoming a stumbling block to Mecca and every other Muslim that desires to submit to the will of God. I pray and hope that maybe I will get to be one of the many that God uses in the ages to come, to take the leaves of the tree of life and bring healing to all the Muslims that truly love God.

Just a thought....
If you're a universalist, according to your theology it doesn't matter. In fact, it could just be a cultural preference, based on that school of thought.
 
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