Did God......

Etagloc

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Christians believe in the Godhead...God the Father, God the Son/Word (made flesh—Jesus Christ), & God the Holy Spirit.

These three make up the one, true, living God.

The part of God that became flesh and dwelt among us on this earth in divine human form (both fully God and fully human) was Jesus Christ.

The Bible doesn’t describe it, but I think it is safe to assume that Jesus did use the bathroom.

The Holy Spirit is Spirit, and spirits do not use the bathroom as they have no bodily function.

God the Father probably did not use the bathroom because He, like the Holy Spirit, would have no use for it.

Only those functioning on the earthly, physical plane of existence would have need of such things.
There is no God but Allah. Only God is worthy of worship- only the Creator, not His creation.

Jesus (PBUH) did not exist. He did not exist and Allah created him.

This alone is definitive proof that Jesus (PBUH) is not God.

It is absurd to talk about a "creation" of God. God has always existed. God existed prior to all creation. God was never created.

It is a mercy from God that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) came and warned humanity (and even jinn) against idolatry.

Worshipping other than Allah (God) is idolatry.

Turn away from idolatry. Leave it behind. Worship only our Creator. Who is greater? Jesus (PBUH) or the Creator who created Jesus (PBUH)?

Is it befitting of God's glory that God should become a human? Are we humans that exalted?

The whole doctrine of God having a son is blasphemy- it maybe suits pagan mythologies but it is not consistent with monotheism.

God is One and has no partners. Nor is there any other God. People need to to leave behind all forms of idol-worship and embrace Tawheed.

I think the situation might be different for those who have not been exposed to monotheism and believe in God while associating partners with Him- but think of how inexcusable it is for a person to have learned of God's Oneness and to yet remain upon polytheism.

I am not ascribing this to anyone specifically- but I believe that for many it is cultural nationalism or clinging to "this is what my fathers did" that leads many Christians to remain upon polytheism when they have learned about monotheism. I think anyone who looks at it objectively should be able to see that Tawheed's sheer force of logic in regard to the issue of God allegedly having a son is undeniable from an unbiased perspective.
 






mecca

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Did God eat food?
God the Father - no
The Son of God - yes
The Holy Spirit - no

Did God use the bathroom?
God the Father - no
The Son of God - yes
The Holy Spirit - no

anymore questions?
I thought you were a monotheist.
 






floss

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I thought you were a monotheist.
Just because you cannot grasp the Trinity concept doesn't make it polytheism.

The Unity of God consisted of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost, these three make up GOD with totally different functionalities and characteristic. There is a chain-of-command as well, the Father is in charge. He's the CEO, above the Son and the Holy Ghost.

I'm not here trying to convince you but if you care about your salvation, then spend some time learning why billions of Christian believed in the Trinity [except Todd].

One day you will grow up and marry someone else, the Bible said you TWO are now ONE. This doesn't mean you become Super Saiyan, you're still two separate being.
 






mecca

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Just because you cannot grasp the Trinity concept doesn't make it polytheism.

The Unity of God consisted of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost, these three make up GOD with totally different functionalities and characteristic. There is a chain-of-command as well, the Father is in charge. He's the CEO, above the Son and the Holy Ghost.

I'm not here trying to convince you but if you care about your salvation, then spend some time learning why billions of Christian believed in the Trinity [except Todd].

One day you will grow up and marry someone else, the Bible said you TWO are now ONE. This doesn't mean you become Super Saiyan, you're still two separate being.
I was only joking with you. Just poking fun, no offense intended. I thought it was funny. I do know what the trinity is and I understand what it means... but I still think it is illogical. You can't say that three separate and distinct persons are one being. It just doesn't add up. If they have completely different functions and characteristics, they can't be the same. If the father is in charge and has the most power and control, how can he be equal and at the same level as the son and the holy spirit? The father can't be both above and equal to the son and holy spirit, that's illogical.
then spend some time learning why billions of Christian believed in the Trinity [except Todd].
Lol I don't think Todd is the only Christian who doesn't believe in the trinity. Before the idea of the trinity was popularized, I'm sure most Christians didn't believe in it.
 






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elsbet

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There is no God but Allah. Only God is worthy of worship- only the Creator, not His creation.

Jesus (PBUH) did not exist. He did not exist and Allah created him.

This alone is definitive proof that Jesus (PBUH) is not God.

It is absurd to talk about a "creation" of God. God has always existed. God existed prior to all creation. God was never created.

It is a mercy from God that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) came and warned humanity (and even jinn) against idolatry.

Worshipping other than Allah (God) is idolatry.

Turn away from idolatry. Leave it behind. Worship only our Creator. Who is greater? Jesus (PBUH) or the Creator who created Jesus (PBUH)?

Is it befitting of God's glory that God should become a human? Are we humans that exalted?

The whole doctrine of God having a son is blasphemy- it maybe suits pagan mythologies but it is not consistent with monotheism.

God is One and has no partners. Nor is there any other God. People need to to leave behind all forms of idol-worship and embrace Tawheed.

I think the situation might be different for those who have not been exposed to monotheism and believe in God while associating partners with Him- but think of how inexcusable it is for a person to have learned of God's Oneness and to yet remain upon polytheism.

I am not ascribing this to anyone specifically- but I believe that for many it is cultural nationalism or clinging to "this is what my fathers did" that leads many Christians to remain upon polytheism when they have learned about monotheism. I think anyone who looks at it objectively should be able to see that Tawheed's sheer force of logic in regard to the issue of God allegedly having a son is undeniable from an unbiased perspective.
The issue is a spiritual one-- you obviously worship a different god. However unfortunate it may be, that's really all there is to it.
 






floss

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You can't say that three separate and distinct persons are one being.
Sorry but you still don't understand the Trinity concept. What I'm saying is there are THREE separate being equal ONE GOD. Not three separate being equal one being.

ONE GOD here does not equate to ONE being. ONE here mean a UNITY and not just simply number 1.

Like, ONE company consisted of CEO, CFO, VP, Director...etc but they are still within ONE company.

or ONE family consisted of Father, Mother, and Children.

You gotta zoom out a bit before understanding the Trinity. The Father, The Son, and the Holy Ghost, they work together as ONE GOD company. They each has their own characteristic, functionalities, task, jobs...etc just like how a company operate.

If you understand this, then you will appreciate this verse and you can see what God mean.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
 






mecca

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Sorry but you still don't understand the Trinity concept. What I'm saying is there are THREE separate being equal ONE GOD. Not three separate being equal one being.
I thought God was a being though.
Like, ONE company consisted of CEO, CFO, VP, Director...etc but they are still within ONE company.
Ok so if your idea of God is comprised of, as you said, three separate beings... then aren't you a polytheist? They aren't one being... three beings is more than one so it can't be classified as "mono".
You gotta zoom out a bit before understanding the Trinity. The Father, The Son, and the Holy Ghost, they work together as ONE GOD company. They each has their own characteristic, functionalities, task, jobs...etc just like how a company operate.
If they each have their own distinct characteristics and divine functions and are separate beings... that's kind of like having three Gods. Even though they cooperate with each other, they're still three separate deities/beings as you said. They can't be separate and distinct but connected and identical at the same time... three can't be one while still being three.

I think the trinity can be considered a mild form of polytheism.... there's really nothing wrong with that, polytheist isn't an insult. People can believe in what they want. But believing in and worshiping three separate divine beings is pretty much polytheism by definition...
 






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Red Sky at Morning

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Sorry but you still don't understand the Trinity concept. What I'm saying is there are THREE separate being equal ONE GOD. Not three separate being equal one being.

ONE GOD here does not equate to ONE being. ONE here mean a UNITY and not just simply number 1.

Like, ONE company consisted of CEO, CFO, VP, Director...etc but they are still within ONE company.

or ONE family consisted of Father, Mother, and Children.

You gotta zoom out a bit before understanding the Trinity. The Father, The Son, and the Holy Ghost, they work together as ONE GOD company. They each has their own characteristic, functionalities, task, jobs...etc just like how a company operate.

If you understand this, then you will appreciate this verse and you can see what God mean.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
The problem for Muslims is that they cannot even consider ideas presented in support of the Trinity, since doing so would put them in danger of attributing Partners to Allah and committing Shirk. It is a case of an irresistible force meeting an immovable object.

The way many Muslims find out who Jesus is seems to be when he breaks into this quandary and appears to them in a dream or vision. I think for anyone who truly seeks, they will find. God is willing to reveal Himself to those who search for Him with an open heart.
 






mecca

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The problem for Muslims is that they cannot even consider ideas presented in support of the Trinity
I was considering it in my discussion with floss just now... but making three separate things out to be one thing while simultaneously still remaining separate isn't very logical. They're the same but not the same at the same time. It doesn't make much sense.
 






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Red Sky at Morning

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I was considering it in my discussion with floss just now... but making three separate things out to be one thing while simultaneously still remaining separate isn't very logical. They're the same but not the same at the same time. It doesn't make much sense.
Were not here to bash you @mecca - anyone who says that the "Trinity is simple, just look at an egg" or similar is just being naieve.

Even though there are echoes of trinities in nature, you would expect The Trinity (if it is true) to be as unique as God's own nature.

Was the thief on the cross in a position to articulate a clear doctrine of the Trinity? Perhaps not, but he knew he could do nothing to become worthy of eternal life and looked to Jesus.

The "chicken and egg" situation is that you cannot "know" Jesus and begin to understand who He is outside relationship. That never happens till you come to Him in faith. If a person simultaniously feels that believing the Gospel will burn their bridges with Allah, I can only feel empathy for the "valley of decision" they must reside in.
 






elsbet

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They can't be separate and distinct but connected .... at the same time.
Why?

(No one said identical.)

I think the trinity can be considered a mild form of polytheism.... there's really nothing wrong with that, polytheist isn't an insult. People can believe in what they want. But believing in and worshiping three separate divine beings is pretty much polytheism by definition...
No, it isn't... not when referencing Jehovah.
 






mecca

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Why? (No one said identical.)
It would be a contradiction, they can't be three distinct things and also the same singular thing at the same time. You can't be different but the same at the same time. Even if they are three divine persons who work together, they are still not one singular God because there's three of them. If it has three separate parts then it isn't a singular thing.

Do you think this an accurate understanding of the trinity? From Wikipedia:
The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are not names for different parts of God, but one name for God because three persons exist in God as one entity. They cannot be separate from one another. Each person is understood as having the identical essence or nature, not merely similar natures.
It says they have identical (the same) natures but that doesn't make sense since they are supposed to be different beings with different roles and functions. It also says that they cannot be separate, but that also makes no sense because then it would be impossible to make a distinction between them.

And is this accurate? From BBC:
The idea that there is One God, who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit means:​
  • There is exactly one God
  • There are three really distinct Persons - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
  • Each of the Persons is God
Common Mistakes
The Trinity is not:​
  • Three individuals who together make one God
  • Three Gods joined together
  • Three properties of God
This doesn't make sense to me either because if they are three separate beings, they can't all be the same God... it could make more sense if they were three "properties of God" or if it was three individuals who worked together... but that's not what most christians believe.
No, it isn't... not when referencing Jehovah.
Why? I think it aligns with the definition. If you're worshiping three distinct divine beings, that can easily fall under the definition of polytheism... albeit it is mild.
 






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Etagloc

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I was only joking with you. Just poking fun, no offense intended. I thought it was funny. I do know what the trinity is and I understand what it means... but I still think it is illogical. You can't say that three separate and distinct persons are one being. It just doesn't add up. If they have completely different functions and characteristics, they can't be the same. If the father is in charge and has the most power and control, how can he be equal and at the same level as the son and the holy spirit? The father can't be both above and equal to the son and holy spirit, that's illogical.

Lol I don't think Todd is the only Christian who doesn't believe in the trinity. Before the idea of the trinity was popularized, I'm sure most Christians didn't believe in it.
Well I think what's amazing in this thread is how people are even describing the three deities of the Trinity as having different attributes, characteristics, personalities etc.

I had thought before that Christians generally describe the Trinity as three aspects of one God but in this thread it is like I'm reading explanation of some sort of Hindu-like system. Obviously, some sort of polytheistic pantheon is being described.
 






Todd

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Genuinely curious about why the trinity is a man-made doctrine? I'm relatively new to Christianity and there is a plethora of things I still don't understand and need to research.
"For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" 1 Timothy 2:5

The Old Testemant is full of verses that speak of One God and never any mention of 3 Gods in one. Duet 6:4, Isaiah 44:6, 45:5, 46:9

Jesus reiterated many of these verses himself and continually spoke of his subjection to the Father. Mark 12 :29, John 17:3, John 14:28, John 5:30

James 1:13 says "God cannot be tempted with Evil", yet the Bible says multiple times that Jesus was tempted. Luke 4:1-2, Luke 22:28, Hebrews 2:18, 4:15.

The Trinity Doctrine specifically says "the glory co-equal, the majesty co-eternal, none afor or after other, none greater or less" There is not one scripture in the Bible to be found that states this. There are multiple scriptures contradicting that idea. Jesus said multiple times he was able to do nothing on his own or that the authority and power he had was given to him by God. 1 Cor 11:3, 1 Cor 15:24,28 John 5:22, 26, 30, 36, 8:28 John 8:54 John 7:16, John 7:28, John 12:49, Matt 28:18, Revelation 1:1

Neither the twelve disciples who walked in the flesh with Jesus, or Paul who had a mystic encounter, ever taught the concept of three Gods in one. The basis for the doctrine of the Trinity is derived from Platonic Greek Philosphy.

Even Biblical Scholars who profess belief in the Trinity Doctrine admit the Trinity can not be explicitly found in scripture and admit it is a construct of man that is deduced from vague intrepetation of few small verses.

@KingOfTheRock PM me if you want more information to help you research and make your own decision.
 






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phipps

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The phrase Trinity is not used in the Bible but the doctrine of the Godhead, where Jesus said baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, is Biblical.

2 Corinthians 13:13-14 says, "All the saints greet you. The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all. Amen."

There are three distinct persons that make up the Godhead. Jesus' baptism is a good example where you can see they're three separate Entities. The Voice of God the Father says, 'This is My Beloved Son....' This is in Matthew chapter 3 btw. Then the Holy Spirit descends in the form of a dove. So you've got three distinct Persons that make up God.

1 John 5:7 says, "For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one." Some people get confused (including some Christians sadly) and ask 'How can They be three in one?' Unfortunately, English speakers take the number one as a solely numerical idea. In Hebrew, it could also mean simply unity.

Jesus said a man leaves his father and mother, cleaves unto his wife, they become one flesh. Well they're two in reality. We know they're two separate, distinct persons. They're now one unit of a family. For instance, when a man and woman get married, they become "one flesh," but they are still two different people. But their union is one. This is what Jesus meant when He said, "Father I pray they might be one as we are one." Also while Jesus was on earth, He prayed to His Father in heaven. Jesus was neither a ventriloquist nor a schizophrenic. He was talking to His Father, and His Father answered Him. God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are united in their purpose of creation, of redemption, and saving man.

The book of Genes tells us God said, 'Let Us make man in Our Image.' And later when man sinned, God said, 'man has become like Us [plural].' So you find all the way from Genesis to Revelation the teaching of God being a Triune God. The Angels say, 'Holy, Holy, Holy' for each member of the Godhead in Isaiah chapter 6.
 






Dalit

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It would be a contradiction, they can't be three distinct things and also the same singular thing at the same time. You can't be different but the same at the same time. Even if they are three divine persons who work together, they are still not one singular God because there's three of them. If it has three separate parts then it isn't a singular thing.

Do you think this an accurate understanding of the trinity? From Wikipedia:
It says they have identical (the same) natures but that doesn't make sense since they are supposed to be different beings with different roles and functions. It also says that they cannot be separate, but that also makes no sense because then it would be impossible to make a distinction between them.

And is this accurate? From BBC:

This doesn't make sense to me either because if they are three separate beings, they can't all be the same God... it could make more sense if they were three "properties of God" or if it was three individuals who worked together... but that's not what most christians believe.

Why? I think it aligns with the definition. If you're worshiping three distinct divine beings, that can easily fall under the definition of polytheism... albeit it is mild.
Even in Messianic Judaism, as I understand it, when we say YHVH/Adonai Echad (is One), the word echad denotes plurality in oneness. Some describe it as being 3 manifestations of God more than 3 persons. Don't know if this helps. I'm not sure I agree with manifestations over persons yet I see the fruit of the people's lives in this and it's good fruit.
 






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