Did God......

Joined
Sep 5, 2018
Messages
3,259
I don't reject currency due to the existence of forged money.
I’ll look for more comprehensive information regarding Faith Healing and it’s “success”. I’ll be honest Red it’s a psychological response brought on by religious ecstasy, it’s woo. It’s also often preying on the desperate which to me is a pretty bad sin.
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,970
Last edited:

Todd

Star
Joined
Apr 16, 2017
Messages
2,525
I’ll look for more comprehensive information regarding Faith Healing and it’s “success”. I’ll be honest Red it’s a psychological response brought on by religious ecstasy, it’s woo. It’s also often preying on the desperate which to me is a pretty bad sin.
I have seen and experienced what @Colonel Valerio is saying first hand as my wife and I used to be Pastors in Charismatics circles. People claim to be healed and then two months later they are no better off then they were before. There is quite a bit of manipulation in the process also. Today I will even admit that I was likely guilty of engaging in those techniques to a small degree without even realizing it.

Just recently my wife and I went to check out a new church we heard about and thought maybe it was something we could tolerate (we have been in a wilderness finding a somehwere to fellowship for some time). However the third meeting we went to, the minister had an altar call and began praying and "prophecying" over people. He called my wife and I out and asked if he could pray for us. I have confidence in my discernment so I allowed him to. The whole time he was praying for me I keep my eyes open and was starring him right in the eye and asking God to help me discern if this guy was legitimate. I got the distinct feeling it freaked him out. It's like he knew he couldn't play some mind game with me or pull the wool over my eye. He ended up not really speaking much of anything to us (which was just fine with me), as if he didn't really hear anything from the Spirit of God, unlike the 3 or 4 people he prayed for before us. He confidently spoke very specific things over those people as though he had heard something directly from God. It's almost as if he knew he could hoodwink those people into believing he was actually hearing from God, but he new he couldn't play the same trick on us.

Shortly after that he prayed for another lady who said she had back issues. After he prayed for her he asked her if there was something she was able to do because of her back. She replied by saying she couldn't pick and hold her 5 year old daughter. So the minister tells the 5 year old daughter to come up and had the poor lady pick her up. If was obvious she was still in pain, but she did it anyways. The guy starts "praising" God like it was some miracle while the poor lady is practically in tears from the pain. Because I was standing right next to her, I could see she was trying to put her daughter down, but the minister put his hand in the way and kinda of helped hold the child up and kept the lady from putting the child down.

The whole sequence just really pissed me off. Needless to say we have not gone back.

Through my almost 30 years of running in Charismatic circles, I have seen plenty of this to varying degrees, yet I know I have seen genuine miracles and prophecies from God (and I believe that God has ministered to others in that manner through my wife and I). But I have to admit that 75% or more of what I have witnessed is more manipulation and pyschological mind games. I'm not even saying that all the "ministers" who engage in these practices are purposely trying to manipulate or fool people. Most of them have been fooled into thinking what they are doing is genuine, because they are only copying others who they think are the real deal.
 

floss

Star
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
2,255
Why did Jews and Lutherans do the same thing?
Because the first commandment covers the second perfectly
Is your faith based on what the Jews or Lutherans does? Or is it based on the Word of God?

They removed the Word of God because they are NOT saved. You’re on the same path and I want to let you know there is ZERO salvation within the catholics church. Hate to break it to you but Purgatory is a hoax.
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,970
I have seen and experienced what @Colonel Valerio is saying first hand as my wife and I used to be Pastors in Charismatics circles. People claim to be healed and then two months later they are no better off then they were before. There is quite a bit of manipulation in the process also. Today I will even admit that I was likely guilty of engaging in those techniques to a small degree without even realizing it.

Just recently my wife and I went to check out a new church we heard about and thought maybe it was something we could tolerate (we have been in a wilderness finding a somehwere to fellowship for some time). However the third meeting we went to, the minister had an altar call and began praying and "prophecying" over people. He called my wife and I out and asked if he could pray for us. I have confidence in my discernment so I allowed him to. The whole time he was praying for me I keep my eyes open and was starring him right in the eye and asking God to help me discern if this guy was legitimate. I got the distinct feeling it freaked him out. It's like he knew he couldn't play some mind game with me or pull the wool over my eye. He ended up not really speaking much of anything to us (which was just fine with me), as if he didn't really hear anything from the Spirit of God, unlike the 3 or 4 people he prayed for before us. He confidently spoke very specific things over those people as though he had heard something directly from God. It's almost as if he knew he could hoodwink those people into believing he was actually hearing from God, but he new he couldn't play the same trick on us.

Shortly after that he prayed for another lady who said she had back issues. After he prayed for her he asked her if there was something she was able to do because of her back. She replied by saying she couldn't pick and hold her 5 year old daughter. So the minister tells the 5 year old daughter to come up and had the poor lady pick her up. If was obvious she was still in pain, but she did it anyways. The guy starts "praising" God like it was some miracle while the poor lady is practically in tears from the pain. Because I was standing right next to her, I could see she was trying to put her daughter down, but the minister put his hand in the way and kinda of helped hold the child up and kept the lady from putting the child down.

The whole sequence just really pissed me off. Needless to say we have not gone back.

Through my almost 30 years of running in Charismatic circles, I have seen plenty of this to varying degrees, yet I know I have seen genuine miracles and prophecies from God (and I believe that God has ministered to others in that manner through my wife and I). But I have to admit that 75% or more of what I have witnessed is more manipulation and pyschological mind games. I'm not even saying that all the "ministers" who engage in these practices are purposely trying to manipulate or fool people. Most of them have been fooled into thinking what they are doing is genuine, because they are only copying others who they think are the real deal.
The attraction of the "powerful" meeting must be a huge temptation for certain ministers. I was fortunate enough to have seen the real thing with personal friends and family members as I was growing up. I also saw the "faith in faith" kind of fleshly rubbish. I think the Church in general backed off from asking for healing because the Word of Faith movement told us we should demand it and claim it.

God remains unchanged by our errors though. This was a story that went beyond the power of suggestion:-

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/the-case-for-miracles.3437/#post-103495
 
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
40
No, God didn't use the bathroom. He did not eat food either. God is above all that, just as he is above gender. He created everything. However, Jesus- God in the flesh- did use the bathroom and eat food. Jesus was flesh like you and me. So long story short: God- no, Jesus- yes :)
 

Todd

Star
Joined
Apr 16, 2017
Messages
2,525
The attraction of the "powerful" meeting must be a huge temptation for certain ministers. I was fortunate enough to have seen the real thing with personal friends and family members as I was growing up. I also saw the "faith in faith" kind of fleshly rubbish. I think the Church in general backed off from asking for healing because the Word of Faith movement told us we should demand it and claim it.

God remains unchanged by our errors though. This was a story that went beyond the power of suggestion:-

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/the-case-for-miracles.3437/#post-103495
Yes he does and tends to show up and do miracles when he wants to, and not when it fits our agenda or when we try to conjure him up!

The specific memories I have of God truly working supernaturally, were all unplanned and totally spontaneous, with little to no intitiation by the will of man. None of them happened at a meeting where there was an "expectation" of God to do something.
 
Joined
Jan 9, 2018
Messages
1,367
No, God didn't use the bathroom. He did not eat food either. God is above all that, just as he is above gender. He created everything. However, Jesus- God in the flesh- did use the bathroom and eat food. Jesus was flesh like you and me. So long story short: God- no, Jesus- yes :)
I agree with everything except the gender thing.

God is male.
 

mecca

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
7,122
No, God didn't use the bathroom.

However, Jesus- God in the flesh- did use the bathroom and eat food.

So long story short: God- no, Jesus- yes :)
You just said that Jesus was God though. So accordingly, if Jesus did something, wouldn’t that mean God did it?
 

mecca

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
7,122
I agree with everything except the gender thing.

God is male.
But Maleness is a product of biology. Nature created sexes for the purpose of reproduction. Does God have sex and reproduce? Is there a female God for him to reproduce with? Are there baby Gods? I thought God created biology, he himself isn’t a biological being. He’s not a product of the nature he created, he can’t be because that makes no sense. God is supposed to be above nature.
 
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
40
You just said that Jesus was God though. So accordingly, if Jesus did something, wouldn’t that mean God did it?
No, there is a difference between Jesus and God. Jesus is like a voice speaking from heaven unto Earth. He wasn’t just some spiritual individual during His time on earth; He was both God’s Son and God Himself—God in human flesh. Yes, He was fully man, but He was also fully God.
 

floss

Star
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
2,255
Stop trying to undertstand the Trinity doctrine with logic and reason! What's wrong with you? LOL!
Such a shame, all your years of preaching and studying the Bible but have zero idea of the nature of God. There’s definitely a spiritual wall between you and the nature of God, probably your heart is hardened or your sinfulness nature or maybe that oneness pentecostal church you’ve been participating. Maybe you were never one of His.
 

mecca

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
7,122
No, there is a difference between Jesus and God. Jesus is like a voice speaking from heaven unto Earth. He wasn’t just some spiritual individual during His time on earth; He was both God’s Son and God Himself—God in human flesh. Yes, He was fully man, but He was also fully God.
If Jesus is fully God and Jesus did something, doesn’t that mean that God did that thing as well?
 
Top