...Demise of America - Obadiah...?...

[phipps]

@KoncreteMind

I'll respond your post in two parts.

The problem with what you’re saying, and your religion in general, is that you try to superimpose your NT doctrine over the OT. because Daniel ABSOLUTELY says that the fourth kingdom is last before God’s kingdom. It’s right there in Daniel 7.

Wow okay! I thought I was having a discussion with someone who at least had a background in the whole Bible with both the Old and New Testaments. Its clear you don't.

Me and my religion try to superimpose my New Testament doctrine over the Old Testament? There is only one doctrine in the whole Bible. There are no two doctrines in the Bible. I have had disagreements with other Christians here on this topic and others but I don't remember any who has said this about the Bible. Most Christians know the Old Testament and New Testament are interrelated. They go hand in hand. The New Testament completes the Old Testament.

There is a reason why both Testaments make up the whole Bible you know? We can't have one without the other otherwise the Bible would be incomplete. This is why Judaism for example is a stunted religion because they only study the Old Testament, and not all of it either. They reject certain scripture that points to the Messiah.

- First of all Jesus is the theme of the whole Bible. The Old Testament points us to Christ in so many ways, one has to do deep study on that prayerfully.

- There are the messianic prophecies about Jesus' birth, ministry and death and they are fulfilled in the New Testament.

- Jesus Himself referred to prophecies about Himself. He told the disciples on the road to Emmaus, "Then He said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?” And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself" (Luke 24:25-27).

- The eternal law was given in the Old Testament and its spoken of Jesus and the apostles in the New testament. In Matthew 5:17-18, Jesus says, "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

- The sanctuary system that was about Jesus' sacrifice for our sins and being our High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary is in the Old testament. The book of Hebrews (in the New Testament) tells us God Himself gave Moses the sanctuary’s construction specifications and they were a copy of the original sanctuary in heaven (Hebrews 8:1-2, 4-5). Jesus fulfilled the sanctuary services in His Ministry and death and He is our High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary (Hebrews 4:14-16).

- Jesus and the apostles quoted the Old Testament. One writer wrote, “In His teachings while personally among men Jesus directed the minds of the people to the Old Testament. He said to the Jews, "You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me" (John 5:39). At this time the books of the Old Testament were the only part of the Bible in existence.”

- The whole Bible is in unity and coordination including prophecy. In end time prophecy the New Testament enlarges on the Old Testament prophecy. I can't post on it all so I'll post on Daniel 7 and Revelation 13 specifically.

- The book of Revelation uses language and symbolism from the Old Testament. Before I compare Daniel 7 with Revelation 13, keep in mind that the entire Bible is a book that was inspired by God plus those who wrote the Bible were moved by the Holy Spirit (2 Timothy 3:16, 2 Peter 1:21) Nothing is in the Bible that is not meant to be there. There are no coincidences in the Bible either. Every little nook and cranny was meant to be there.

a. Reference to the ten horns that arose on the fourth beast in Revelation 13 from Daniel 7 is not a coincidence? It makes the prophecy more specific actually.

b. Reference to the four beasts in Revelation 13:2 from Daniel 7:7-8 is not a coincidence. Automatically a Christian who'd read Daniel 7 would recognise the language and symbolism. The Leopard (Greece), bear (Media-Persia), and the lion (Babylon). "Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority."

c. Revelation 13:1, "Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name." Compare this to Daniel 7:7-8, "It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots." Revelation 13 obviously gives more information than Daniel 7. Each of the ten horns had a crown which indicates that the ten nations that sprang up after pagan Rome's demise were exercising their political authority. They had their own kingdoms. The seven heads are seven consecutive world powers or earthly governments Satan uses to persecute God’s faithful church. The beast of Revelation 13 is the same as the dragon from Revelation 12:3. They both have “seven heads and ten horns.” Revelation 17:10 shows us that the seven heads are seven world powers Satan uses to persecute God’s church. You see the same language and symbols with more information.

d. Here is an image of the attributes of the little horn power of Daniel 7 and the first beast of Revelation 13. Again similar language and symbology is used here.

e. The 42 months that the Antichrist (the first beast, the papacy) have authority is the same time period that the little horn power will have authority in Daniel 7:25, because the little horn of Daniel 7 and the first beast of Revelation 13 are the same power. Time, times and half a time, 42 months, and 1260 days are all the same time period written in different forms.This period of terrible persecution is so important that it is mentioned seven times specifically in the Bible and its one power (the first beast/papacy/antichrist) that persecutes God's people during this period, Daniel 7:25, 12:7, Revelation 11:2-3, 12:6, 14, 13:5.

By pointing to Daniel 7 by using its symbols, the apostle John helps us identify when the beast appears historically within the prophecies.

Obviously you will come to your false conclusion about the Roman empire if you completely dismiss the New Testament especially the book of Revelation. The fourth kingdom does NOT last until the end but aspects of it do through the papacy and America.

Within Christendom the books of Daniel and Revelation have always been paired together because they are clearly closely related. Revelation gives us more light on the prophecies of Daniel to help us understand better what lies ahead.

You are very wrong on this subject and again its not my religion that imposes this, its the Bible therefore God. I pray the Holy Spirit leads you to the truth of God.

 

[phipps]

@KoncreteMind

26 “‘But the court will sit, and his (the king who comes from the fourth beast) power will be taken away and completely destroyedforever.27 Then(AS IN AFTER) the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy PEOPLE OF THE MOST HIGH

Why don't we read from verse 23-27 to understand better what is written in Daniel 7?

“Thus he said: ‘The fourth beast shall be A fourth kingdom on earth, Which shall be different from all other kingdoms, And shall devour the whole earth, Trample it and break it in pieces. The ten horns are ten kings Who shall arise from this kingdom. And another shall rise after them; He shall be different from the first ones, And shall subdue three kings. He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time. ‘But the court shall be seated, And they shall take away his dominion, To consume and destroy it forever. Then the kingdom and dominion, And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom."

This verse disputes your whole interpretation. But your loophole is running to the NT and telling me what it says about what Daniel wrote which islike me going to the Quran to tell you about what your Jesus meant.

Its you who thinks this verse disputes what I've posted and that is because you clearly do not know what more the Bible says on this subject in both Testaments. You've deemed Daniel 7 as an island chapter. When in fact even in the book of Daniel we get more information on the fourth kingdom in other chapters and then Revelation expands on that too. Your loophole is thinking you know for sure everything about the fourth kingdom just from chapter 7 and that is that. You are not interested, and disregard the rest of what the Bible has to say on this very important subject that involved/involves God's people through the ages until Christ returns the second time because it does not harmonise your opinions.

How you can read this, say you believe it’s from God but tell me the fourth kingdom fell thousands of years ago is only because you superimpose the NT over the OT.

I'm merely telling you the truth of the Bible and history. And you're telling me what you think and its not based on God's word at all I'm afraid.

Do you think one verse can completely erase all the other ones that talk about the little horn power before verses 26 and 27 and later in chapter 8 hmm? Its the little horn power whose dominion and power will be destroyed forever. Then the Most Holy people who are all the saved will inherit this world after Jesus comes.

The Bible skims over certain points that are explained later in other chapters and books in the Bible in both the Old and New testaments. It is clear to me that the Most Holy people means the saved who will inherit this earth after and reign with Jesus after He returns the second time but I also have knowledge of what other parts of the Bible says on this subject and how it harmonises (Isaiah 35:1, 60:18, Matthew 5:5, Revelation 21:1-3).

So you interpret the OT to fit the NT... And the people who ruled after then and now aren’t “the Holy people of the Most High” mentioned in Daniel. Now who gets it next? Will be. That’s how you know it’s not going to be China, Russia or any other nation that takes over as the next world super power. It’s all in Daniel...

No I don't interpret the Old Testament to fit the New Testament, the Word of God does. I hope you've understood that at least now. You have gravely misunderstood the Bible. The Bible is continuous until Revelation on this subject it doesn't end at Daniel 7 or in indeed in the Old Testament. You are wrong!

The Bible is written is such a a way that it gives us information in one part and it expands on in another part. The book of Daniel is written like that. So is the book of Revelation but then Revelation gives us more light on the book of Daniel and the New Testament in general gives us more light on the Old Testament.

As I posted before, the prophecies of the 4 kingdoms begin in Daniel 2 and in later chapters of 7,8,9... we are given more and more information. So we begin to find out more of the frightful iron kingdom and what happens to it, how it ends but what power comes out of it etc.

Many Bible scholars knew/know this all the way to the protestant reformers during the time when the papacy persecuted them. They called the papacy the antichrist and that was a long time after Daniel. Even when Jesus was on earth Daniel had not lived for hundreds of years.

Also I don’t want to hear the “just because they call themselves that doesn’t mean they are” argument coming from someone who believes the people who call themselves Jews are the people of the book because they say so. The facts are that they were SANCTIONED to conquer this side of the world by the Roman Catholic Church and while doing so called themselves Roman Emperors. Showing that they were an extension of that same empire. For instance Charlemagne:

Charlemagne or Charles the Great from the Latin Carolus Magnus (2 April 748[5][d] – 28 January 814), numbered Charles I, was King of the Franks from 768, King of the Lombards from 774, and Emperor of the Romans from 800.

I care about the truth of the Bible so I will continue to say that. Here is what two historians said about the Roman empire.

Historian Carl Eckhardt said this:
"Then the Roman empire had disintegrated and its place had been taken by a number of rude, barbarous kingdoms, the Roman Catholic Church not only became independent of the state in religious affairs but dominated secular affairs as well." Carl Conrad Eckhardt, The Papacy and World Affairs (Chicago: University of Chicago Press 1937): 1.

Thomas Hobbes, English Historian, said this:
"If a man consider the origin of this great ecclesiastical dominion, he will easily perceive that the Papacy is no other than the ghost of the deceased Roman empire, sitting crowned upon the grave thereof." Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan: 457.

Historians agree that papal Rome emerged out of the ruins of the ancient pagan Roman Empire. The papacy was and is not the Roman empire but no one can deny it shared a lot with its predecessor. There was a transitory period obviously where the Pope sort of ruled over the Roman empire and the last remaining emperors but eventually the papacy completely took over the fallen Roman empire. This is an undeniable fact biblically and historically.

And you clearly don't understand what I say about Jews according to the Bible. You twist everything to fit into your narrative and are not interested in the truth of the Bible or history for that matter.

King of the Franks(one of the 10 tribes that attacked the original Roman Empire) then later Roman Emperor. The original Rome was taken over and continued on thru the modern Europeans..

So if the original Rome was taken over, that means whoever took over was a new power or powers as was the case of the ten western tribes of which three would completely disappear and the papacy would take over. Now if the papacy took over the three tribes you do know that means they ceased to exist and the papacy did not continue to be the three kingdoms right? Daniel 7:24, "The ten horns are ten kings Who shall arise from this kingdom. And another shall rise after them; He shall be different from the first ones, And shall subdue three kings." These kingdoms arose from the Roman empire. They formed their own kingdoms but three horns were plucked out and the papacy (the little horn) and took their place. The papacy became its own kingdom too and it still exists to this day, NOT the fourth kingdom.

And once that’s acknowledged then it’s clear who the Israelites are and aren’t. Because the modern European didn’t oppress the modern Jew in any way, he handed him the “holy” land thru the Balfour declaration.

Yes its clear to me who the true Israelites are biblically. I have a thread here on what constitutes a true Jew in the Bible but I see I have to explain a little bit of Bible truth about Jews to you so you don't twist what I say which is biblical too.

I've said this a few times and I'll say it again, prophecy in the Bible is about what affects God's people. The first four kingdoms affected the Israelites and Jews because they were God's people but then they stopped being God's people because of their final rejection of the Messiah. Daniel prophesied a period of time that was cut off for the Jews (Daniel 9:24-27). It was a probationary period for the Jews but at the end of this period, which ended three years after Jesus' death, the Jews had disobeyed and rejected God for the last time. They had been disobeying God on and off for too long. God would punish them and some of those punishments involved being taken captive by the kingdoms, Daniel lived at a time where Israel was under Babylonian captivity for 70 years.

When Jesus was on earth, He told the Jews, "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.” (Matthew 21:43-44). He knew the end had come for the Jews as a chosen nation.

The apostles (especially Paul) spread the gospel mainly to Gentiles and true Christians became mostly Gentiles. There were Jews in there too of course but they were the minority. Paul taught that the real Israel of God is "a remnant chosen by grace" (Romans 11:5). In Romans 11:17-24, Paul speaks of the olive tree that represents Israel. The branches (Jews) were broken off because of unbelief and the wild olive shoots (Gentiles) were grafted in to share in the nourishment of the tree. The natural branches (the Jews) could be grafted back into the tree if they accepted the conditions, accepted the Messiah. God is no respecter of nations or individuals. All who turn to Him will be accepted:

"For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him" (Romans 10:12).

"For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:26).

"I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you" (John 15:5-7).

In the New Testament, the name Israel applies to Jesus Christ and His followers.

So since the gospel was mainly with Gentiles in Europe, Satan turned his attention to Europe through the papacy. And they persecuted people who worshipped God according to the Bible and according to their own consciences not the prescribed Catholic doctrine which wasn't/isn't biblical. So these Christians were the Church, Israel and Jews (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 2:19-20) because they accepted Christ as their personal Saviour and Satan knew it too hence their persecution through the dark ages.

I'll stick to biblical truth not your untruths. I pray and hope that God will reveal His truth to you and more to us all through the Holy Spirit. God bless.

 

[KoncreteMind]

@KoncreteMind


Why don't we read from verse 23-27 to understand better what is written in Daniel 7?

“Thus he said: ‘The fourth beast shall be A fourth kingdom on earth, Which shall be different from all other kingdoms, And shall devour the whole earth, Trample it and break it in pieces. The ten horns are ten kings Who shall arise from this kingdom. And another shall rise after them; He shall be different from the first ones, And shall subdue three kings. He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time. ‘But the court shall be seated, And they shall take away his dominion, To consume and destroy it forever. Then the kingdom and dominion, And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom."


Its you who thinks this verse disputes what I've posted and that is because you clearly do not know what more the Bible says on this subject in both Testaments. You've deemed Daniel 7 as an island chapter. When in fact even in the book of Daniel we get more information on the fourth kingdom in other chapters and then Revelation expands on that too. Your loophole is thinking you know for sure everything about the fourth kingdom just from chapter 7 and that is that. You are not interested, and disregard the rest of what the Bible has to say on this very important subject that involved/involves God's people through the ages until Christ returns the second time because it does not harmonise your opinions.

I'm merely telling you the truth of the Bible and history. And you're telling me what you think and its not based on God's word at all I'm afraid.

Do you think one verse can completely erase all the other ones that talk about the little horn power before verses 26 and 27 and later in chapter 8 hmm? Its the little horn power whose dominion and power will be destroyed forever. Then the Most Holy people who are all the saved will inherit this world after Jesus comes.

The Bible skims over certain points that are explained later in other chapters and books in the Bible in both the Old and New testaments. It is clear to me that the Most Holy people means the saved who will inherit this earth after and reign with Jesus after He returns the second time but I also have knowledge of what other parts of the Bible says on this subject and how it harmonises (Isaiah 35:1, 60:18, Matthew 5:5, Revelation 21:1-3).



No I don't interpret the Old Testament to fit the New Testament, the Word of God does. I hope you've understood that at least now. You have gravely misunderstood the Bible. The Bible is continuous until Revelation on this subject it doesn't end at Daniel 7 or in indeed in the Old Testament. You are wrong!

The Bible is written is such a a way that it gives us information in one part and it expands on in another part. The book of Daniel is written like that. So is the book of Revelation but then Revelation gives us more light on the book of Daniel and the New Testament in general gives us more light on the Old Testament.

I don’t want to take this into the direction of arguing the merits of the NT tho. I just understand that you NEED it to make your view make sense. But the facts are facts. The book of Daniel says after the fourth kingdom falls, God’s kingdom is restored and that power and authority on earth would be restored to them. You say the fourth kingdom fell thousands of years ago and yet Gods kingdom is nowhere in sight. His people cannot be seen having any power or authority. To make sense of it the ONLY place you can point me to is the New Testament.


Its also clear that the fourth beast has 10 horns. Then another horn rises and subdues three of the horns. Yet you tell me this “horn” isn’t from the fourth beast but from something else when Daniel says different. The difference is I take Daniel at what he wrote while you say that because someone hundreds to thousands of years later wrote something different, that Daniel meant different...

As I posted before, the prophecies of the 4 kingdoms begin in Daniel 2 and in later chapters of 7,8,9... we are given more and more information. So we begin to find out more of the frightful iron kingdom and what happens to it, how it ends but what power comes out of it etc.

Many Bible scholars knew/know this all the way to the protestant reformers during the time when the papacy persecuted them. They called the papacy the antichrist and that was a long time after Daniel. Even when Jesus was on earth Daniel had not lived for hundreds of years.



I care about the truth of the Bible so I will continue to say that. Here is what two historians said about the Roman empire.

Historian Carl Eckhardt said this:
"Then the Roman empire had disintegrated and its place had been taken by a number of rude, barbarous kingdoms, the Roman Catholic Church not only became independent of the state in religious affairs but dominated secular affairs as well." Carl Conrad Eckhardt, The Papacy and World Affairs (Chicago: University of Chicago Press 1937): 1.

Thomas Hobbes, English Historian, said this:
"If a man consider the origin of this great ecclesiastical dominion, he will easily perceive that the Papacy is no other than the ghost of the deceased Roman empire, sitting crowned upon the grave thereof." Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan: 457.

Historians agree that papal Rome emerged out of the ruins of the ancient pagan Roman Empire. The papacy was and is not the Roman empire but no one can deny it shared a lot with its predecessor. There was a transitory period obviously where the Pope sort of ruled over the Roman empire and the last remaining emperors but eventually the papacy completely took over the fallen Roman empire. This is an undeniable fact biblically and historically.

And you clearly don't understand what I say about Jews according to the Bible. You twist everything to fit into your narrative and are not interested in the truth of the Bible or history for that matter.

So if the original Rome was taken over, that means whoever took over was a new power or powers as was the case of the ten western tribes of which three would completely disappear and the papacy would take over. Now if the papacy took over the three tribes you do know that means they ceased to exist and the papacy did not continue to be the three kingdoms right? Daniel 7:24, "The ten horns are ten kings Who shall arise from this kingdom. And another shall rise after them; He shall be different from the first ones, And shall subdue three kings." These kingdoms arose from the Roman empire. They formed their own kingdoms but three horns were plucked out and the papacy (the little horn) and took their place. The papacy became its own kingdom too and it still exists to this day, NOT the fourth kingdom.

Daniel 7:8
After that, in my visionat night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns.

Daniel: I saw a great beast with 10 horns that had another horn rise up out of it that took out 3 horns in its place.

Phipps: the horn(s) isn’t/aren’t part of the 4th beast

You’re arguing against the book of Daniel not me. Western Europe and America by extension is part of the 4th beast..

Yes its clear to me who the true Israelites are biblically. I have a thread here on what constitutes a true Jew in the Bible but I see I have to explain a little bit of Bible truth about Jews to you so you don't twist what I say which is biblical too.

I've said this a few times and I'll say it again, prophecy in the Bible is about what affects God's people. The first four kingdoms affected the Israelites and Jews because they were God's people but then they stopped being God's people because of their final rejection of the Messiah. Daniel prophesied a period of time that was cut off for the Jews (Daniel 9:24-27). It was a probationary period for the Jews but at the end of this period, which ended three years after Jesus' death, the Jews had disobeyed and rejected God for the last time. They had been disobeying God on and off for too long. God would punish them and some of those punishments involved being taken captive by the kingdoms, Daniel lived at a time where Israel was under Babylonian captivity for 70 years.

When Jesus was on earth, He told the Jews, "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.” (Matthew 21:43-44). He knew the end had come for the Jews as a chosen nation.

The apostles (especially Paul) spread the gospel mainly to Gentiles and true Christians became mostly Gentiles. There were Jews in there too of course but they were the minority. Paul taught that the real Israel of God is "a remnant chosen by grace" (Romans 11:5). In Romans 11:17-24, Paul speaks of the olive tree that represents Israel. The branches (Jews) were broken off because of unbelief and the wild olive shoots (Gentiles) were grafted in to share in the nourishment of the tree. The natural branches (the Jews) could be grafted back into the tree if they accepted the conditions, accepted the Messiah. God is no respecter of nations or individuals. All who turn to Him will be accepted:

"For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him" (Romans 10:12).

"For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:26).

"I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you" (John 15:5-7).

In the New Testament, the name Israel applies to Jesus Christ and His followers.

I personally don’t care for the NT or what it says. It comes off as babble only written to discredit or turn people away from what the OT says. The Bible is like a grandfather writing a personal letter to his grandson. Only his grandson is going to “get” the letter. The rest of the people who come across the letter are essentially just committing spiritual mail fraud when they take something written for and to someone ...

The Most High referenced Israel as a nation of people descending from a man named Jacob. And that’s what it remains unless He comes to change that. Someone writing the NT saying it can be anybody that believes this or that doesn’t change the context of what Israel meant. And this is what the Most High said about that those that say He rejected Israel as well:

Jeremiah 33
Have you not noticed that these people are saying, ‘The Lord has rejected the two kingdoms he chose’? So they despise my people and no longer regard them as a nation. 25 This is what the Lord says: ‘If I have not made my covenant with day and night and established the laws of heaven and earth, 26 then I will reject the descendants of Jacob and David my servant and will not choose one of his sons to rule over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. For I will restore their fortunes and have compassion on them.’”

You’re the one who no longer regards Israel as a nation but God here DISPUTES that by saying He will restore them and that David would rule over the DESCENDANTS (which refers to BLOODLINES) of Abraham, Isaac and JACOB.. But because someone writes that a Jesus came and said different we’re supposed to go with that? For you maybe but again, I don’t think the letter was written to you...

So since the gospel was mainly with Gentiles in Europe, Satan turned his attention to Europe through the papacy. And they persecuted people who worshipped God according to the Bible and according to their own consciences not the prescribed Catholic doctrine which wasn't/isn't biblical. So these Christians were the Church, Israel and Jews (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 2:19-20) because they accepted Christ as their personal Saviour and Satan knew it too hence their persecution through the dark ages.

I'll stick to biblical truth not your untruths. I pray and hope that God will reveal His truth to you and more to us all through the Holy Spirit. God bless.

I keep it simple:

Daniel: I saw a great beast with 10 horns that had another horn rise and uproot 3 former horns

You: The horn isn’t part of the 4th beast

Call whatever you’re doing whatever you want, but for me I’ll stick with what Daniel said. The info was mainly for someone who may stumble across what’s being said not necessarily for you. Until you take those NT blinders off you won’t be able to see