Deception in the Church

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#81
Hi @Daciple

As your friendly pre mil brother, what about this from Matthew 24?

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Looks like at least some of the believers will make it through alive to me.
That is 144 thousand of jews...And that's it i think...

Luk 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
Luk 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
 





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#82
Christendom is not about salvation by grace nor works but about obeying God's commands and do good.

What Jesus accomplished on the cross is the reason we can repent and be forgiven. Now go out and tell the Good News to everybody and do good while you do it.
Were you obeying God’s commandment when you used the Lord’s name in vain? I think you just lost your salvation based on what you believed.
 





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#83
Were you obeying God’s commandment when you used the Lord’s name in vain? I think you just lost your salvation based on what you believed.
Salvation is obeying God.

Do not concern yourself with who will go to hell or lose salvation but work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Jesus Christ is God and that can never be said enough and so i said it and you ought to say Amen.
 





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#84
That is 144 thousand of jews...And that's it i think...
Not Jews but Israelites.

You could be one as well as most in fact ten tribes have been lost or mingled with all mankind.
 





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#85
Talk or type less and do more.

Show some restraints in your theology and do not burden your brothers with books but try to keep it short and sweet. You look through a glass darkly and so the more you or anybody else talk or type the darker the glass gets.

Christendom is not about writing commentaries but about doing good deeds. This is perhaps foreign to the easy gospel crowd who has been deluded into thinking that believing in Jesus Christ is all that matters.

To do good is more valuable to God than typing words which quite frankly are just too long and tiresome to read.

You have been reproved.
Lol you are going to try and reprove me? That's hilarious. Aren't you the one who said:

Yes i admit after i came to Jesus Christ it is easy to obey the Ten Commandments. Because i don't want to nor do i dare to break them.
And dozens of more other times saying the same thing, about how you follow the 10 Commandments, how easy it is to do so, how it's Salvation dependent, ect.

Ex 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Yet here you are on the same Forum you tried to tell everyone else about how you don't break the 10 Commandments, how you "dare not" to even, and you are using Jesus Christs name on vain. You are now exposed as a hypocrite and a lair, not only that but as one that clearly breaks the 10 Commandments not just privately but publicly.

Yet you want to sit on some Throne and try and rebuke me for something that isn't even in the Bible? Here's another thing Jesus said:

Matt 7:1Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye
.

You should probably get that massive log out of your eye with all your Judgement of others especially around Judging them over the 10 Commandments before you ever try and call anyone else out for thier specks.

You have no idea what the Lord has called me to do on this Forum therefore don't Judge the length of my posts, instead Judge yourself and try to not expose yourself again as being a massive Hypocrite for literally talking about just how great you are for following the 10 Commandments when you can't even keep yourself from breaking them on a Public Forum. No one before believed you and clearly no one now will believe you have the power or probably even try not to keep from using the Lord name in vain in private.

Consider yourself rebuked brother God bless you!
 





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#86
Lol you are going to try and reprove me? That's hilarious. Aren't you the one who said:



And dozens of more other times saying the same thing, about how you follow the 10 Commandments, how easy it is to do so, how it's Salvation dependent, ect.

Ex 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Yet here you are on the same Forum you tried to tell everyone else about how you don't break the 10 Commandments, how you "dare not" to even, and you are using Jesus Christs name on vain. You are now exposed as a hypocrite and a lair, not only that but as one that clearly breaks the 10 Commandments not just privately but publicly.

Yet you want to sit on some Throne and try and rebuke me for something that isn't even in the Bible? Here's another thing Jesus said:

Matt 7:1Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye
.

You should probably get that massive log out of your eye with all your Judgement of others especially around Judging them over the 10 Commandments before you ever try and call anyone else out for thier specks.

You have no idea what the Lord has called me to do on this Forum therefore don't Judge the length of my posts, instead Judge yourself and try to not expose yourself again as being a massive Hypocrite for literally talking about just how great you are for following the 10 Commandments when you can't even keep yourself from breaking them on a Public Forum. No one before believed you and clearly no one now will believe you have the power or probably even try not to keep from using the Lord name in vain in private.

Consider yourself rebuked brother God bless you!

Are you above reprove ?

Keep it short and sweet brother and that is an advice and not a judgement. We are supposed to study the Scriptures and not long commentaries on it. This is common sense.

And not to take God's name in vain is to not swear falsely under oath.
 





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#87
Are you above reprove ?

Keep it short and sweet brother and that is an advice and not a judgement. We are supposed to study the Scriptures and not long commentaries on it. This is common sense.

And not to take God's name in vain is to not swear falsely under oath.
Thats like saying we should only preach ourselves and not listen what other preachers have to say...Thats not common sense thats proud and foolish...
 





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#88
Thats like saying we should only preach ourselves and not listen what other preachers have to say...Thats not common sense thats proud and foolish...
Again keep it short and sweet.

Do not expect your brother to wade through long personal opinions about the Scriptures. And do not get offended if your brother do not agree with you. Word to the wise.
 





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#89
Meh short attention span is your problem, either you adjust or you don't participate, people shouldn't be forced to change their writing style ( thats what you are actually whining about, although you are trying to mask it with fancy words ) because it's a problem for you...
 





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#90
Meh short attention span is your problem, either you adjust or you don't participate, people shouldn't be forced to change their writing style ( thats what you are actually whining about, although you are trying to mask it with fancy words ) because it's a problem for you...
If he wants everybody to read what he writes and perhaps respond to it then he must use less words.

As it is he is overwhelming us with his personal opinion of the Scriptures and i for one do not want to wade through so much words when my time is better spent studying the Scriptures.

Take it to heart or ignore it but i had to comment on it.
 





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#91
If he wants everybody to read what he writes and perhaps respond to it then he must use less words.

As it is he is overwhelming us with his personal opinion of the Scriptures and i for one do not want to wade through so much words when my time is better spent studying the Scriptures.

Take it to heart or ignore it but i had to comment on it.
Do you skip a bible chapter containing all Red Letter?
 





cfowen

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#93
A short list of common false beliefs (traditions) that won't hold up under scrutiny by the Scriptures.

1- Man has a soul, rather than man BEING a soul
2- Man's soul is immortal
3- The existence of hell, a place where our loving God tortures the humans He created who don't believe in Him, with fire, 24/7, forever.
4- Dead believers are now in heaven with God. They immediately went to heaven after death. They didn't need to wait for the resurrection.
5- The Church has replaced Israel
6- People must do works to earn their salvation. Simply believing in Jesus Christ is not enough.
7- Saved Gentiles today will participate in the earthly Kingdom of Heaven
8- Oral traditions are acceptable to God as doctrine.
9- The entire Bible is written TO us.
10- The Gospel taught by Jesus Christ takes precedent over everything else.
11- The Great Commission is the marching order for the Church today
12- To be saved, we must be born again
13- It's OK to have religious idols, to call the chief muckymuck "Father", to pray to human saints, to tell people you can forgive their sins, to pray in vain repetitions, to have a priesthood, to force celibacy, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.,
14- The present day Church started with Christ's earthly ministry
15- The present day Church started at Pentecost, in Acts 2
16- The present day Church started in Acts 9 or Acts 13, with either Paul's conversion or when Paul's ministry started
17- Lazarus and the Rich Man is a true story.
18- The comma in Lk 23:43 should be before the word, Today, as it appears in most Bibles, and not after.
19- In Lk 23, the thief and Christ met on the day of His death, in Paradise, which is in the 3rd Heaven according to 2Cor 12.
20- Christ's earthly ministry was to both Jews and Gentiles
21- Israel are still God's chosen people, during this 2000 year period we're now in
22- The Kingdom of Heaven is the hope of the Church.
23- Mary died a virgin.
24- The New Covenant is in effect for the Church today
25- Repentance means to stop sinning
26- Biblical prophecy is being fulfilled today
27- Paul should have been the 12th apostle, as the replacement for Judas
28- Present day Israel was God ordained. It was the fulfilling of prophecy
29- The Sermon on the Mount applies to us today.
30- The Lord's Prayer applies to us today.
31- The Lord's Supper applies to us today
32- Water Baptism applies to us today.
33- The Gifts of the Spirit, as given in Acts 2, are still applicable today.
34- The 12 apostles witnessed daily to both Jews and Gentiles
35- There are prophets in the Church today
36- The present day Gentile Church, The Church Which is His Body, where Christ is the Head, will go through the Tribulation.
37- The purpose of the Acts period was to build the Church.
38- Today's Gentile Church will be taken up in the rapture.
39- Christ came to build a Church.
40- The 10 commandments are to be obeyed by today's Church
 





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#94
Deception in the Church.....
A big deception in the church is once saved always saved.
I know that we have been debating back and forth over this very issue for the last couple of days. And I can only go back to verses that I think back up that this is false....
Romans 11:20-22
Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
Matthew 26:33
But Peter said to Him, "Even though all may fall away because of You, I will never fall away."
Matthew 24:10
At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.
1 Timothy 4:1
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.
Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end
Hebrews 6:4-8
For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
Hebrews 10:36-39
For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised. FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE, HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY. BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM. But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.
2 Timothy 4:3-4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
Hebrews 3:6
but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house-whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.
Hebrews 3:14
For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,
Luke 21:36
But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.
Mark 13:13
You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

The pre-trib rapture-I believe this is also a false, pie in the sky belief for Christians these days. Getting the Christian to hope for and wait for deliverance from the great tribulation and then saying people will be saved after that and they will be the ones here on earth to go through the great tribulation. I feel like that is a setup for a great disappointment and falling away from God when those people find themselves here in the great trib. Some would say that that is for the Christians who get saved after the rapture, but I say, that God who began that good work in us is the one perfecting it until the day of Jesus and he won’t be taking us out, when we are His representatives on earth and we will be the ones going before kings and governors as a witness for Him.
God has not destined us for wrath, before the wrath of God is when we will be taken out and not before. The whole of the great tribulation is not God’s wrath.

Kjv onlyism- I think this is a sad commentary of Christian life and ironic. Since the kjv was done in order for the common man to know the Bible where before only the ‘priests’ could read it in a language that the common man couldn’t. So how weird is it that people nowadays are claiming that a Bible that contains a language that many can’t understand is the only true Bible? True, there are deceptive ‘bibles’ out there, but this is extreme.

Ecumenicalism- The belief that we can all come together despite differences...or a song I’ve heard, we all bleed the same. Yes, we all bleed the same, but we don’t all think the same, and going along to get along is not acceptable when it comes to the truth in scripture.
You have islam saying Jesus isn’t the Son of God, you have catholics recrucifying Jesus every week, and many other beliefs being upgraded to being equal to each other so we can all get along? As a Christian we sell out when we say, ok, no big deal that you don’t believe Jesus is the Son of God, or yes, lets take part in your mass. Jesus makes it clear...If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own, but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.
So you see ecumenicalism is deceiving, sounds nice, but deceiving all the same.

Catholicism-the pope being the vicar of Christ, does Christ need a vicar? No man is on par with Christ. He is also a big proponent of ecumenicalism, wanting to reunite with what he calls the ‘lost brethren.’
Mary....O dear, Mary she would be heartbroken to know that she is idolized and equated as God, and God hates idols...so the whole Mary thing is bad.
I could go on...but we must move on...

The NAR-The New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) is a dominionist movement which asserts that God is restoring the lost offices of church governance, namely the offices of Prophet and Apostle.
Leading figures in this seemingly loosely organized movement claim that these prophets and apostles alone have the power and authority to execute God’s plans and purposes on earth. They believe they are laying the foundation for a global church, governed by them.
Jesus doesn’t need our help....
And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND Lord OF LORDS. Revelation 19:11-16

Emerging church-Scripture is no longer the ultimate authority as the basis for the Christian faith.
-The centrality of the gospel of Jesus Christ is being replaced by humanistic methods promoting church growth and a social gospel.
-More and more emphasis is being placed on building the kingdom of God now and less and less on the warnings of Scripture about the imminent return of Jesus Christ and a coming judgment in the future.
-The teaching that Jesus Christ will rule and reign in a literal millennial period is considered unbiblical and heretical.
-The teaching that the church has taken the place of Israel and Israel has no prophetic significance is often embraced.
-The teaching that the Book of Revelation does not refer to the future, but instead has been already fulfilled in the past.
-An experiential mystical form of Christianity begins to be promoted as a method to reach the postmodern generation.
-Ideas are promoted teaching that Christianity needs to be reinvented in order to provide meaning for this generation.
-The pastor may implement an idea called “ancient-future” or “vintage Christianity” claiming that in order to take the church forward, we need to go back in church history and find out what experiences were effective to get people to embrace Christianity.
-While the authority of the Word of God is undermined, images and sensual experiences are promoted as the key to experiencing and knowing God.
-These experiences include icons, candles, incense, liturgy, labyrinths, prayer stations, contemplative prayer, experiencing the sacraments, particularly the sacrament of the Eucharist.
-There seems to be a strong emphasis on ecumenism indicating that a bridge is being established that leads in the direction of unity with the Roman Catholic Church.
-Some evangelical Protestant leaders are saying that the Reformation went too far. They are reexamining the claims of the “church fathers” saying that communion is more than a symbol and that Jesus actually becomes present in the wafer at communion.
-There will be a growing trend towards an ecumenical unity for the cause of world peace claiming the validity of other religions and that there are many ways to God.
-Members of churches who question or resist the new changes that the pastor is implementing are reprimanded and usually asked to leave.

Yoga and kung fu-The church has embraced these two things and is now making it ‘Christian’, when they clearly are not Christian. It reminds me of when Christians took over pagan holiday to make them Christian in hopes of spreading the gospel...they sure spread something...but not the gospel. A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

Holy laughter and other various teaching of the Toronto blessing! Wow, this is such a wrong teaching and I have no idea how anyone could think that has anything to do with God, considering one of the fruits of the spirit is self control

Joel Osteen and numerous others because its profitable to itch those ears...and line your pockets at the same time...smh

Talks about much of what I just said...
https://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/apostatechurch.htm

Good discernment website. Can purchase a video series called Wide is the Gate by Caryl Matrisciana, it goes through the new age influences in the church.
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/

Edit: disclosure...op was liked before this edit.

I’m going to add Replacement Theology to the list. Because we Christians do not replace the Jews in the covenant. Paul clearly stated that we are grafted in but we do not become the new “Jews.”
But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
Once saved always saved: BIBLICAL TRUTH.
Deception in the Church.....
A big deception in the church is once saved always saved.
I know that we have been debating back and forth over this very issue for the last couple of days. And I can only go back to verses that I think back up that this is false....
Romans 11:20-22
Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
Matthew 26:33
But Peter said to Him, "Even though all may fall away because of You, I will never fall away."
Matthew 24:10
At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.
1 Timothy 4:1
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.
Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end
Hebrews 6:4-8
For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
Hebrews 10:36-39
For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised. FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE, HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY. BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM. But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.
2 Timothy 4:3-4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
Hebrews 3:6
but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house-whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.
Hebrews 3:14
For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,
Luke 21:36
But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.
Mark 13:13
You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

The pre-trib rapture-I believe this is also a false, pie in the sky belief for Christians these days. Getting the Christian to hope for and wait for deliverance from the great tribulation and then saying people will be saved after that and they will be the ones here on earth to go through the great tribulation. I feel like that is a setup for a great disappointment and falling away from God when those people find themselves here in the great trib. Some would say that that is for the Christians who get saved after the rapture, but I say, that God who began that good work in us is the one perfecting it until the day of Jesus and he won’t be taking us out, when we are His representatives on earth and we will be the ones going before kings and governors as a witness for Him.
God has not destined us for wrath, before the wrath of God is when we will be taken out and not before. The whole of the great tribulation is not God’s wrath.

Kjv onlyism- I think this is a sad commentary of Christian life and ironic. Since the kjv was done in order for the common man to know the Bible where before only the ‘priests’ could read it in a language that the common man couldn’t. So how weird is it that people nowadays are claiming that a Bible that contains a language that many can’t understand is the only true Bible? True, there are deceptive ‘bibles’ out there, but this is extreme.

Ecumenicalism- The belief that we can all come together despite differences...or a song I’ve heard, we all bleed the same. Yes, we all bleed the same, but we don’t all think the same, and going along to get along is not acceptable when it comes to the truth in scripture.
You have islam saying Jesus isn’t the Son of God, you have catholics recrucifying Jesus every week, and many other beliefs being upgraded to being equal to each other so we can all get along? As a Christian we sell out when we say, ok, no big deal that you don’t believe Jesus is the Son of God, or yes, lets take part in your mass. Jesus makes it clear...If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own, but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.
So you see ecumenicalism is deceiving, sounds nice, but deceiving all the same.

Catholicism-the pope being the vicar of Christ, does Christ need a vicar? No man is on par with Christ. He is also a big proponent of ecumenicalism, wanting to reunite with what he calls the ‘lost brethren.’
Mary....O dear, Mary she would be heartbroken to know that she is idolized and equated as God, and God hates idols...so the whole Mary thing is bad.
I could go on...but we must move on...

The NAR-The New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) is a dominionist movement which asserts that God is restoring the lost offices of church governance, namely the offices of Prophet and Apostle.
Leading figures in this seemingly loosely organized movement claim that these prophets and apostles alone have the power and authority to execute God’s plans and purposes on earth. They believe they are laying the foundation for a global church, governed by them.
Jesus doesn’t need our help....
And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND Lord OF LORDS. Revelation 19:11-16

Emerging church-Scripture is no longer the ultimate authority as the basis for the Christian faith.
-The centrality of the gospel of Jesus Christ is being replaced by humanistic methods promoting church growth and a social gospel.
-More and more emphasis is being placed on building the kingdom of God now and less and less on the warnings of Scripture about the imminent return of Jesus Christ and a coming judgment in the future.
-The teaching that Jesus Christ will rule and reign in a literal millennial period is considered unbiblical and heretical.
-The teaching that the church has taken the place of Israel and Israel has no prophetic significance is often embraced.
-The teaching that the Book of Revelation does not refer to the future, but instead has been already fulfilled in the past.
-An experiential mystical form of Christianity begins to be promoted as a method to reach the postmodern generation.
-Ideas are promoted teaching that Christianity needs to be reinvented in order to provide meaning for this generation.
-The pastor may implement an idea called “ancient-future” or “vintage Christianity” claiming that in order to take the church forward, we need to go back in church history and find out what experiences were effective to get people to embrace Christianity.
-While the authority of the Word of God is undermined, images and sensual experiences are promoted as the key to experiencing and knowing God.
-These experiences include icons, candles, incense, liturgy, labyrinths, prayer stations, contemplative prayer, experiencing the sacraments, particularly the sacrament of the Eucharist.
-There seems to be a strong emphasis on ecumenism indicating that a bridge is being established that leads in the direction of unity with the Roman Catholic Church.
-Some evangelical Protestant leaders are saying that the Reformation went too far. They are reexamining the claims of the “church fathers” saying that communion is more than a symbol and that Jesus actually becomes present in the wafer at communion.
-There will be a growing trend towards an ecumenical unity for the cause of world peace claiming the validity of other religions and that there are many ways to God.
-Members of churches who question or resist the new changes that the pastor is implementing are reprimanded and usually asked to leave.

Yoga and kung fu-The church has embraced these two things and is now making it ‘Christian’, when they clearly are not Christian. It reminds me of when Christians took over pagan holiday to make them Christian in hopes of spreading the gospel...they sure spread something...but not the gospel. A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

Holy laughter and other various teaching of the Toronto blessing! Wow, this is such a wrong teaching and I have no idea how anyone could think that has anything to do with God, considering one of the fruits of the spirit is self control

Joel Osteen and numerous others because its profitable to itch those ears...and line your pockets at the same time...smh

Talks about much of what I just said...
https://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/apostatechurch.htm

Good discernment website. Can purchase a video series called Wide is the Gate by Caryl Matrisciana, it goes through the new age influences in the church.
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/

Edit: disclosure...op was liked before this edit.

I’m going to add Replacement Theology to the list. Because we Christians do not replace the Jews in the covenant. Paul clearly stated that we are grafted in but we do not become the new “Jews.”
But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
I agree with all your points except:

1. Once saved, always saved....This is NOT some strange doctrine people came up with. It is BIBLICAL TRUTH.

When you deny that once a person has TRULY BELIEVED on the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and has RECEIVED “everlasting” life, has been born-again from above, received the earnest of their redemption....you are denying the words of Jesus Himself:

John 10:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


30 I and my Father are one.

Also, NONE of the verses you used as proof texts were in the context of salvation. None of them said that once you are saved, you can lose it. None of the verses in the Bible EVER say that once you are saved, God will take it back.

I do not think you truly believe John 3:16-17. If you TRULY TRUST with ALL your heart, soul & mind that Jesus paid for ALL your sins, past, present & future, you would KNOW that you cannot lose it.
There’s NOTHING you can do to lose salvation once you have received it, because you did not do anything to earn it. Jesus did it all. Is Jesus going to go back and *undo* everything He did to save you?
Of course not! It has already been done. Nothing you do can change that. If you really believe Christ paid for your sins in full, you would know you cannot lose it.

2. KJV Only— I think you misinterpret this. Obviously the manuscripts that the KJB are based on ARE God’s Word. The Hebrew & Aramaic Masoretic Text & the Koine Greek Textus Receptus ARE God’s Word. I do NOT believe those are corrupt, they are preserved.
But I do not speak Hebrew, Aramaic or Koine Greek. I speak French, Japanese & English. I trust the Bible’s that LED UP TO the King James, like the Bishop’s Bible, the Geneva Bible, etc, but I do NOT trust the Modern Versions that are based on completely different text, as they are based on the Codex Vaticanus (Roman Catholic text) & Alexandrian(Egyptian) text.

3. “Replacement Theology “ - just a fancy way of saying that Jesus fulfilled the OT, as HE is the “seed” (singular) of Abraham.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.”.........Galatians 3:16
 





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#95
Catholicism is the mother to Christianity. The difference between the two (pope/Mary beliefs) is similar to the differences that pop up within christianity (Jesus being/not being God)
Not even close.

In Luke, we have the very *first* Catholic, whom Jesus sharply rebuked:

Luke 11:
27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed [is] the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.

28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed [are] they that hear the word of God, and keep it.


The woman is exalting Mary, & Jesus is quick to correct her, saying they that hear & believe Jesus are MORE blessed than Mary.
 





cfowen

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#96
Concerning salvation, consider these 2 passages:

Rev 14:6-7
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Acts 14:15-16
15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:
16 Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.
17 Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.

In the 1st passage, the angels are preaching what is called the "everlasting gospel" to everyone on the earth, many of whom are pagans. This gospel seems to be: There is only one living God and He is the creator of everything. In the second passage, It infers (vs 7) that believing in this will put one in good standing for the judgement. Paul is preaching the very same thing to pagans in Lystra or Derbe.

The question is, why didn't the angels or Paul preach Jesus Christ to these people? Was this "everlasting gospel" sufficient for some sort of salvation - probably as part of the nations on the New Earth? I believe it was. In the case of Paul, he knew he would never see these people again. Could he, in good conscious, leave them unsaved? During the OT, the only way a Gentile could receive blessing was to become a proselyte of Israel. There were millions of pagan Gentiles that would never even meet a Jew. If a pagan should come to the realization that there is only one living God, who is the creator of all, I think he would be saved. There is no unusual meaning in the phrase, "everlasting gospel." I means just what it says - eternal past, present, and future good news.

I've always thought that there will be more people saved than the fire and brimstone preachers think there will be.

What do you all think about this? The usual response is that the only way to salvation is to believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. If you think about it, the Everlasting Gospel is all about Christ also - for He is the only living God and He is the creator of all.
 





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#97
I’m not sure I understand where you are coming from here...

Who are ya talking about when talking about the Abrahamic religions? I know that Christians know from the Bible that all have sinned, if that’s what you are asking.
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-
Romans 5:12

How did that happen?
The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die. Genesis 2:16-17

God gave the Israelites the law to be obeyed with sacrifices to offer to God for their sins but they had to keep offering sacrifices for sin, until God sent His Son to offer the once for all sacrifice for sins if you believe in the Son.

But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
Revelation 21:8

For God, sin is a big deal! And the punishment is death. But He also loves us and sent Himself as sacrifice for our sins because we are unable to satisfy Him with sacrifices on our own.

Hope this answers your questions, but I have a feeling it didn’t. Have a good day Art.
You are correct as your deflection answers nothing.

You have to ignore a lot of moral scriptures to adhere to your immoral substitutionary atonement.

That is not surprising given how your literally believe in some things but not the others, like what follows.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The sonshall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear theiniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, andthe wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put todeath because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because oftheir fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them,--- is immoral.

To abdicate personal responsibility or use a scapegoat is immoral.

Do you agree?

You might wonder why your God is forcing you to do the immoral;l thing.

Your dishonesty and immorality in your last post says that you are not ready to think in a moral way.

If you had a good son and a bad son, would you punish the good son while letting your bad child off the hook?

If you would not and do the moral thing, why do you think God would ask you to do the immoral thing?

Regards
DL
 





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#98
And your point is? There is a right and wrong way to view scripture. Catholicism has practices that are not Biblical, and those practices stop them from being Christians. Because for being a Christian, your views must line up with scripture.
This is not true at all.

You ask for the right way to view scriptures while ignoring your own clergy that says not to read any of the scriptures literally.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg,said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greekcommentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

Regards
DL
 





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#99
Actually it does.
I was talking about catholocism which is another gospel. It doesn’t hold to scripture.

I think that some are closer than others, but catholocism isn’t close.
Would you want Christians to hold to scriptures given that you might have to stone your unruly child of fornicating neighbor if you did hold to Christian dogma?

Regards
DL
 





cfowen

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Gnostic,

If you are truly a Gnostic, then you are truly a heretic. If you are truly a heretic, then no one should pay attention to anything you say. In the future, I won't read anything you write, because it is suspect by definition. Here's a pretty good summary of Christian Gnosticism which, in itself, is an oxymoron.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-gnosticism.html.