Deception in the Church

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I think you naturally shun the person not because you are being mean, but because oil and water don’t mix.
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭6:14‬ ‭​

For what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?​
I understand that righteousness has no fellowship with darkness but that is not quite the point.

His individual was an unrepentant, open sinner within the church who had fallen into serious immorality. According to your interpretation of Hebrews, there is no hope for this guy, yet here is Paul when the man has done the impossible (apparently) and repented, urging the body to restore him.

This matters because many on this forum may have had Christian backgrounds, have fallen into sin and/or deception and are here looking for answers, fellowship and maybe restoration.
 





Lisa

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I understand that righteousness has no fellowship with darkness but that is not quite the point.
Isn’t that the point though? If you fall away from the faith, you are back in the darkness.

His individual was an unrepentant, open sinner within the church who had fallen into serious immorality. According to your interpretation of Hebrews, there is no hope for this guy, yet here is Paul when the man has done the impossible (apparently) and repented, urging the body to restore him.
Ya, you try to bring a brother/sister back into fellowship but if they don’t want to, then that’s going to cut ties whether because they don’t want to hear the preaching anymore or you don’t want to be seen encouraging the behavior..either way there is going to be a separation of some sort. And if that person comes back into the church having repented, then all would welcome them back with open arms, wouldn’t they?

According to my interpretation? How can you not interpret Hebrews in that manner when it clearly states what will happen to a person who falls away from the faith. That’s not just an unrepentant sinner, that’s someone who leaves the faith whether by deception or by desire, they aren’t in the true faith anymore, so then they are back in the darkness..so 2 Corinthians 6:14

This matters because many on this forum may have had Christian backgrounds, have fallen into sin and/or deception and are here looking for answers, fellowship and maybe restoration.
True..but I don’t think that being forewarned of the consequences of sin even for a Christian is a bad thing. Can you really say that when we are warned in scripture about deception that we should ignore it because it doesn’t matter to us..we are once saved always saved. Or should we take the warning about deception in the church because we can be deceived to the point that we can fall away from the faith? Isn’t that a good thing to know?
 





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Hi Lisa,

Another thought occurred to me as I was reading your response. What happens to someone the moment they are born again? This short talk explores it:-


Really this is just unpacking the meaning of Romans 6, 7 and 8. I believe this puts the the Flesh, the Spirit and the battleground which is our own free will and comprehension of who we are in Christ in perspective.

I believe in the value of holiness, the new birth, the indwelling sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit and the value of walking in the Spirit rather than the Flesh.

I believe that my conviction of the truth of the Pre-Trib rapture makes me care for those who might face those times in unbelief and deception. I do not think I will fall away from faith if this view turns out to be incorrect and the Antichrist rises on the world scene as my faith is not in the Rapture but in the Lord.

While we are on the subject of deceptions identified in the OP, I like the KJV because it is not subject to the Nestle-Alund revisions and the R.V. of Westcott and Hort.

Rather than trade verses in some kind of spiritual tug of war, I have shared the reasons why I see things as I do, just as you have. I make no judgement of your faith as it is the Lord who we are each accountable to.

Certain disputes (and ways of disputing) are warned against in the Bible, and for that reason, I think I will conclude my discussions with you on this subject.

I have always liked the single-mindedness of Paul:-

1 Corinthians 4

3But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. 4For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. 5Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
 





Lisa

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The real War taking place

There have been too many casualties of spiritual warfare; many are from inside the church. They are ill equipped to go up against the schemes of the enemy who use other people and philosophies and ideaologies. This is because people have taken their armor off. The armor is the Word of God, if the church or individual lacks understanding of it then she is unprotected. Furthermore, the armor is put on the front for us to look at the enemy face to face, you can’t fight with your back turned, because there is no armor there.

You can be a good swordsman but if you do not have the breastplate on you can be wounded, so we must have the whole armor on and use the word of God correctly in battle. There is no quick way to put the armor, there is no silence to hear God or bible mantra to speak that will work. You must learn of Christ, the Word and apply it in each unique situation to have the armor on. We need to learn what the enemy is up to for we do not fight what is seen; flesh and blood but the mover of hearts and minds of those who are not following the Lord (yes, even those in the church). Much of the time the people do not even understand what they oppose or why.

We have heard the term of low information voters, what of low information Christians. Those who make decisions of what is right and wrong without the facts, without the wisdom of the Bible. These seem to be the hardest people to convince something is wrong. If they can’t recognize the false teachers, or believe of the abundance of false prophets Jesus warned would come in the last days then they are probably already convinced of their teaching and following them.
http://www.letusreason.org/ecumen41.htm
 





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Be specific?

God is shown to be a loser in heaven by having to boot Satan out.
No the person getting kicked out seems to be the loser...

God is shown to be a loser in Eden by his murdering A & E by neglect and locking away what would have kept them alive.
Umm no. He gave them rules and told them the consequence of breaking said rules. Without breaking the rule, they would have lived forever.

Shall I talk of Noah's flood and genocida?
My answer would be no because you dont know what you're talking about. You can rail on and on about scriptures you cant and dont and will not ever understand, but you cant discuss whats going on in the here and now. What thread are you in discussing modern events? Where are you commenting positively or negatively about the bankers who are charging interest on every piece of currency they print for the variety of countries they have under the control? You wont mention them because like you, they're luciferians.
 





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Be specific?



No the person getting kicked out seems to be the loser...



Umm no. He gave them rules and told them the consequence of breaking said rules. Without breaking the rule, they would have lived forever.



My answer would be no because you dont know what you're talking about. You can rail on and on about scriptures you cant and dont and will not ever understand, but you cant discuss whats going on in the here and now. What thread are you in discussing modern events? Where are you commenting positively or negatively about the bankers who are charging interest on every piece of currency they print for the variety of countries they have under the control? You wont mention them because like you, they're luciferians.
If you aren’t talking about deception in the church, will you take this to another thread?
 





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The problem with this clip is....the person who compiled it forgot that Isaiah 14 was about the king of Babylon
Yes so the King of Babylon to the Israelites of that time, would be like Satan to most people in these times. An enemy. Oppressor. Adversary. Not a Messiah or savior like the NT or even Islam says.

We see in revelation 2 that the morning star is a gift from the holy spirit. I believe the morning star as just a symbol of intuition /wisdom given to people, from God.

It is only because the Christian world is pretty lost when it comes to theology ..that they later (in recent centuries) misinterpreted these verses and applied them to a devil.
The context behind that is because they believe that the entity in genesis...the serpent who tempted eve...is THE devil as opposed to a devil. There is no "THE devil" since evil is not a being but a condition.
By making evil into A being...then they used the law of duality to argue that the shadow (evil) only exists due to the light and thus they made Lucifer(the light) as the good part of a single entity...eg that Lucifer is also Satan
I agree with what you're saying for the most part. But in the scriptures, and by that I mean the OT, it says that the Creator had a being that brought evil/temptation to people. Not that the entity itself was evil, but that it had a purpose in regards to the existence of evil which the OT says was created by God. S. Since satan HAD to get permission before doing ANYTHING, I think what was supposed to be taken away from that is that the Creator created EVERYTHING (good and bad) for a purpose.

In Islam...the same is written about the Mohammedan reality/light of Mohammed as a light that emanated from the first level of causation. It is the equivalent of The Pen (representing the intellect) which writes the destiny/record of all things from the primordial ink (the universal conciousness).


The Pen...is the same idea as "the spirit hovered over the waters" eg the primordial ocean/watery abyss/ink represent the same thing.

In Egyptian mythology, Nu represents the first thing out of the primordial water.
The Arabic letter is Nun.

The chapter Al-qalam (The Pen) begins with the letter NUN.

Allah SWT said:

نٓ ۚ وَا لْقَلَمِ وَمَا يَسْطُرُوْنَ ۙ 
"Nun. By the pen and what they inscribe,"
(QS. Al-Qalam 68: Verse 1)

Basically the morning star, Venus is just a physical symbol of the inner light of wisdom.
And just as the Bible says

22 "I, wisdom, was with the Lord when he began his work, long before he made anything else. 23 I was created in the very beginning, even before the world began.

It is not to be confused with the Logos.
The logos is the watery abyss/primordial ink itself. The pen writes from the ink.

The pen writes the Book...which is the equivalent of Code eg if you look at reality as a program...it's built from a code.
Though I think theres an easier way to say what you said here lol, I get what you're saying and kind of agree...
 





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If you aren’t talking about deception in the church, will you take this to another thread?
He clearly was discussing what christians believe though. Did you read what he said?

Or can we only speak on a narrow, "christianity is true but discuss lies within it" point of view?
 





Lisa

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He clearly was discussing what christians believe though. Did you read what he said?

Or can we only speak on a narrow, "christianity is true but discuss lies within it" point of view?
No need to get upset. Yes, this thread is the lies within Christianity and if it’s not that maybe you guys can start another thread pertaining to whatever you are discussing? No, I haven’t read what he was talking about actually, but I have experience with what he talks about which is why I asked.
 





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No need to get upset. Yes, this thread is the lies within Christianity and if it’s not that maybe you guys can start another thread pertaining to whatever you are discussing? No, I haven’t read what he was talking about actually, but I have experience with what he talks about which is why I asked.
Your opening post doesnt say anything about having to believe christianity to discuss certain deceptions within it, but if its your stance now that thats off limits in this thread then so be it...
 





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Yes so the King of Babylon to the Israelites of that time, would be like Satan to most people in these times. An enemy. Oppressor. Adversary. Not a Messiah or savior like the NT or even Islam says.



I agree with what you're saying for the most part. But in the scriptures, and by that I mean the OT, it says that the Creator had a being that brought evil/temptation to people. Not that the entity itself was evil, but that it had a purpose in regards to the existence of evil which the OT says was created by God. S. Since satan HAD to get permission before doing ANYTHING, I think what was supposed to be taken away from that is that the Creator created EVERYTHING (good and bad) for a purpose.



Though I think theres an easier way to say what you said here lol, I get what you're saying and kind of agree...
Not a Messiah or savior like the NT or even Islam says.

Are you talking about King Nebuchadnezzar II or the idea of lucifer as per Revelation 2 and Surah at-Tariq in the Quran?
I don't think the king of babylon was considered 'satan' at the time. Daniel served in his kitchen and was praying for him. I think they knew that this 'evil' had come about as punishment for their own sins. Zechariah 5, Habakkuk 2, Prophet Jeremiah foretold the invasion. In the Quran, chapter 17 even refers to babylonians as 'OUR servants' (in the context because they were doing the will of God in inflicting punishment on the jews).
In the context of Isaiah 14 though, it isnt talking about SATAN/lucifer though..and when it does mention the word lucifer/morning star, it is only in the context of jest/mockery.
Basically lucifer/the morning star is not an evil concept in the bible or the Quran. it was never about 'satan' like a lot of these christians imagine in their head.

the duality of good and evil is another topic.
 





Lisa

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LTRP Note: We are hearing more and more reports about evangelical churches embracing Yoga. If your church is entertaining the idea of introducing Yoga classes to the church or if you know of a local church that is doing this, please give that pastor a copy of this booklet and ask him to reconsider. To order copies of YOGA and Christianity – Are They Compatible? in booklet form, click here. Those churches that welcome Yoga will in time be drawn in to the “new” spirituality and away from God’s Word. This is serious, and there is no time to waste. If you cannot afford to buy a booklet for a pastor, e-mail us his name and address, and we will send it for you at no cost to you. Let’s do what we can to stop Yoga from entering so many churches.

We were told a story this week about a place of business where the owners said that all employees had to begin Yoga classes in order to reduce stress. While one employee who was a Christian refused to participate, he observed that eventually two of the non-Christian employees became Hindu. Shockingly, the owners of the business were Christians.

https://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=22967
 





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LTRP Note: We are hearing more and more reports about evangelical churches embracing Yoga. If your church is entertaining the idea of introducing Yoga classes to the church or if you know of a local church that is doing this, please give that pastor a copy of this booklet and ask him to reconsider. To order copies of YOGA and Christianity – Are They Compatible? in booklet form, click here. Those churches that welcome Yoga will in time be drawn in to the “new” spirituality and away from God’s Word. This is serious, and there is no time to waste. If you cannot afford to buy a booklet for a pastor, e-mail us his name and address, and we will send it for you at no cost to you. Let’s do what we can to stop Yoga from entering so many churches.

We were told a story this week about a place of business where the owners said that all employees had to begin Yoga classes in order to reduce stress. While one employee who was a Christian refused to participate, he observed that eventually two of the non-Christian employees became Hindu. Shockingly, the owners of the business were Christians.

https://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=22967
The mediatation techniques of Yoga are not evil in themselves. It's what you choose to meditate on when using Yoga techniques that could lead you astray. If the person teaching you Yoga is a Budhist or Hindu, then yes you could be easily be lead into those religions. But in the same way, a non-religious preson who learns Yoga from a Christian could likely become a Christian because they would be more likely to meditate on Jesus and/or Bible verses.
 





Lisa

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The mediatation techniques of Yoga are not evil in themselves. It's what you choose to meditate on when using Yoga techniques that could lead you astray. If the person teaching you Yoga is a Budhist or Hindu, then yes you could be easily be lead into those religions. But in the same way, a non-religious preson who learns Yoga from a Christian could likely become a Christian because they would be more likely to meditate on Jesus and/or Bible verses.
I think that the point of meditation is emptying your mind...which shouldn’t be done because of what comes to fill your mind and are Christians to meditate in that sense? Or in the sense that they are thinking about the meaning of scriptures and how that affects them, giving thanks to God and praising Him.
Why would a Christian teach yoga, when they should just be teaching Jesus anyway?
 





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I think that the point of meditation is emptying your mind...which shouldn’t be done because of what comes to fill your mind and are Christians to meditate in that sense? Or in the sense that they are thinking about the meaning of scriptures and how that affects them, giving thanks to God and praising Him.
Why would a Christian teach yoga, when they should just be teaching Jesus anyway?
That's like asking why should a Christian teach music lessons, when they should just be teaching Jesus anyway...

Yoga is not about emptying your mind. It's about quieting your mind to focus. You still need to choose something to focus on.
Yoga is just a technique or skill used to meditate. And yes the bible speaks about meditation and quieting the mind.

Think of it this way. Saying Yoga in and of itself is evil, is like saying singing in and of itself is evil. Music and singing is a technique or skill humans use to express their thougths and emotions. It is not evil. However what we sing about can be righteous or evil. Just as the world can use music and singing to glorify the devil, Christians can use music and singing to glorify God. So the world can use Yoga for evil and Christians can use it for good.
 





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That's like asking why should a Christian teach music lessons, when they should just be teaching Jesus anyway...

Yoga is not about emptying your mind. It's about quieting your mind to focus. You still need to choose something to focus on.
Yoga is just a technique or skill used to meditate. And yes the bible speaks about meditation and quieting the mind.

Think of it this way. Saying Yoga in and of itself is evil, is like saying singing in and of itself is evil. Music and singing is a technique or skill humans use to express their thougths and emotions. It is not evil. However what we sing about can be righteous or evil. Just as the world can use music and singing to glorify the devil, Christians can use music and singing to glorify God. So the world can use Yoga for evil and Christians can use it for good.
No you have a false equality thing going on. Meditation is not like singing or teaching its opening yourself up to the spiritual realm and letting those spirits fill your mind. And for that reason Christians shouldn’t be involved or teaching it like it’s some Christian thing when it’s not.
 





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No you have a false equality thing going on. Meditation is not like singing or teaching its opening yourself up to the spiritual realm and letting those spirits fill your mind. And for that reason Christians shouldn’t be involved or teaching it like it’s some Christian thing when it’s not.
So you are saying Christians shouldn't open themselves up to the Spritiual realm?
 





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Here's a better answer than my prior answers. This is what Christianity is supposed to be all about.

1 Corinthians 15:1-8 as reference.
1. Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures. (v.3)
2. He was buried. (v.4)
3. He was raised on the 3rd day according to the Scriptures. (v.4)
4. He appeared after His resurrection to many witnesses (more than 2 or 3, several hundred actually) (v.5-8)

Luke 24:44-49
Same with the first 3 above in v.46
Additionally in v.47: repentance for the forgiveness of sins proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning in Jerusalem

Other good references are Mark 1:14-15, Acts 2:22-42, Acts 3:12-26, Acts 17:22-34, Acts 26:1-29

Basically it's about what Jesus Christ did and repentance from sins.
 





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Yoga in and of itself IS Satanic, period.

If you do not accept that, and think Yoga is some non threatening tool for relaxation or stretching, then you literally have zero concept of what Yoga is.

Look up the word alone, that tells you exactly what Yoga is all about:

It means to Yoke or Union, THAT is what the actual word means. And the POINT of Yoga is to Yoke yourself to the Hindu gods, point blank period. The poses and the breathing ALL have the common factor of practicing a RELIGION with the intent and purpose of "aligning Chakras" to cause oneself to be Yoked or in Union with a Higher Power, or Entity.

Just as if I were to teach you how to punch and kick in a very specific manner along with breathing techniques, even if I call it Boxing, I am still teaching you Kung Fu.

Think of it this way. Saying Yoga in and of itself is evil, is like saying singing in and of itself is evil. Music and singing is a technique or skill humans use to express their thougths and emotions. It is not evil. However what we sing about can be righteous or evil. Just as the world can use music and singing to glorify the devil, Christians can use music and singing to glorify God. So the world can use Yoga for evil and Christians can use it for good.
That is absolutely incorrect. The only correlation would be if Singing was CREATED with the sole intent purpose to worship a specific god and then try and tell others that its really not about worshiping said God.

Yoga is 100% a Religious Activity used to Yoke yourself to Hindu gods, if people want to be ignorant willfully of it then so be it but that doesnt change the fact that it was created to unite yourself to their gods.

Just like saying someone can say the Our Father and NOT really be praying to the Christian God, sure you can think and say that but the Our Father was created with the intention to pray to the Christian God. If a Muslim is stupid enough to start praying the Our Father and think hes praying to the Muslims god then he can be willfully ignorant of that if he so chooses...
 





Susu.mochi

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You guys I feel like so many Christians fall away from God because their not truly saved and weren't truly saved. Because they believe in a works based salvation gospel. They say repent of your sins and believe in the gospel, which is like seriously?!!! So in order for you to come to Christ and be saved you have to be sinless?! Well that's what they think. And sorry to burst everyone's bubbles but.... WE ARE NOT SAVED BECAUSE OF OUR WORKS!!!! We are SAVED by the BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST. Repenting of all your sin to be saved is a false gospel. We need to trust in only one work! The FINISHED work on the CROSS!! The fact that people think you have to repent of ALL sin to be saved is just sad!! They are Delulu in the Brain! We are justified by God's Grace!! Romans 3:24 "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus."
Romans 3:27-38 where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law...."
So we get saved by the blood of Jesus Christ! Then he gives us the Holy Spirit and we start repenting because we love Jesus. Because we want to follow Jesus we don't want to hurt him with our sin. Kapeesh? Ya get it now? Repentance is something you do daily WHEN YOUR SAVED!! Luke 3:8 "Bear fruits in keeping with repentance."
When you want to become a Christian believer you repent. You change your mind! Repent means change of mind. You change your mind and you want to follow Jesus. That's the first repentance a person does. Not repent of all sin to be saved. Salvation is a gift from God it can not be earned!!
<----- Here is a link to a video that explains romans 11 which I saw a person talking about on this thread. Copy and paste it to YouTube you'll find it. Here's another link copy and page it into YouTube and there's a short video about Grace and how people think it's a license to sin but it's not!
Renee Roland explains it so well. Please please please watch it, you won't regret it! God bless