Death.

[Douglas Summers]

Job, an OT saint asked the question, "if a man die, will he live again". (Job 14:14) Little was known in the OT about what happens after the Grave, Job, David, and Daniel had some insight, But death and immortality was a hidden doctrine. OT Scriptures like Isa. 38:18 "For the grave cannot praise thee, Life cannot celebrate thee," And it is true, If we are to please or praise God, we must do it on this side of mortal life. And Eccles. 9:5 "But the dead know not anything", This also is true, the scheming, planning, wickedness and works of man do follow them, but they are all gone, there is nothing but the Spirit, confronted with it's future eternal state, whether it be condemnation or eternal bliss. But there was a reason for the vagueness of the eternal state. For it was left up to Christ to bring life and immortality to light (2 Tim. 1:10). Notice, He brought it to light. He did not create it at that time, but brought to lite and revelation what had already existed.

Jesus with His disciples were leaving Jerusalem and went away beyond the Jordan when He heard of His friend Lazarus (Mary's) brother was sick, Jesus stayed two days longer after hearing the news about Lazarus sickness (purposely) after Lazarus deathI. As Jesus approaches Bethany, Lazarus had been dead four days. As Jesus approaches Bethany, Martha and Mary (Lazarus's sisters) Hear of Christ's coming. Martha runs to meet Jesus while Mary stays at the house. Martha, as she approaches the Lord says, "Lord, if you had been here, Lazarus would not have died", And I know what ever you ask of God, He will give it unto You". Then Jesus says to her, "Thy brother shall rise again", Martha replies to Jesus, "yes, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection on the last day". But look what Christ says to her (and us), "I am The resurrection and the Life, he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live. And whosoever liveth and believeth in me, shall never see death". Believeth thou this?. And Martha says, "Yes Lord, I believe thou art the Christ, The Son of God who should come into the world". And how much is that like us, yes Lord I know some day will come and we will live again. But Jesus goes to Lazarus's tomb and says, "Take away the stone"', And with a loud voice, He said, "Lazarus, come forth", And Lazarus comes forth, Christ then says, "loose him"!. I have heard it said, it is a good thing He said Lazarus, for everyone in the grave would have come forward. There is no death for the born again believer. I ask you even as Christ confirmed, Do you believe in Christ and eternal life....not do you believe there is a God, but do you believe Christ as a born again believer. The difference between a born again believer, and one who believes in a god is the difference of having His Spirit of God and walking in it's guidance or claiming a god that is created in your own image. In these last days there are many denominations, cults, and false prophets. There are no Denominations in the Heavens where Christ's throne is and The false prophets end is described in Revelation 19:20.
In Him, who alone has redeemed us to be our righteousness before God,
Douglas Summers

 

[AspiringSoul]

Lovely....the old testament Jews had no sure knowledge of the afterlife.
Yet these clownish faux Christians talk about how only the Bible matters.

The afterlife theology was largely incorporated into Jewish thought from the new age Hellenised culture.

The Sadducees were the Jewish version of protestants. They rejected the rabbinic traditions ie the Talmud and the new age Hellenistic ideas of the time......ie they only went with literal interpretations from the old testament.

In other words most christians would reject jesus and consider him to be no diff to any of the other mystery religion new age figures.
This is also true for many if not most muslims.

In the end the will of God outweighs the meagre opinions of people...and that is one of those things the Christians forget when they judge Islam ie if Islam was so bad God wouldnt have given Jerusalem to Muslims for 1200+ years and even moreso than that given us the temple Mt and even the power to build two structures on it.

Question:
When Jesus spoke about Elijah having returned and been killed already...was.he referring to john the Baptist or someone else?

 

[elsbet]

Wow.

 

[Helioform]

Well there was this Melchizedek guy in the OT who was an "eternal" without a recorded birth or death. Some say he was Jesus himself.

https://isthatinthebible.wordpress.com/2015/06/13/melchizedek-king-priest-time-lord/

"Although there is some scholarly dispute over whether the author of Hebrews really believes Melchizedek is an immortal, angelic figure, the various lines of evidence for Jewish belief in a heavenly priesthood and the apparently widespread belief in Melchizedek as a supernatural being strongly suggests that this is exactly what is meant in Hebrews. As Moffitt (p. 204, see bibliography) says:

Given the author’s own description of the angels as “ministers” (λειτουργοί, 1:7), and as “ministering spirits” (λειτουργικὰ πνεύματα, 1:14), it is virtually certain that he also considers the angels to be heavenly priests.
…It is also highly likely that the author of Hebrews considers Melchizedek to be one of those ministering spirits. First, the writer’s strange statement that Melchizedek is “without father, without mother, that is, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days, nor an end of life” (7:3, cf. 7:8) makes good sense if the author conceives of him as an immortal angel.​

Aschim (p. 139, see bibliography) concurs, and notes that Hebrews must be drawing on the same tradition as 11QMelchizedek, because both texts associate the “order of Melchizedek” with the Yom Kippur ritual — a point of contact that cannot be derived from the two biblical mentions of Melchizedek."

 

[Douglas Summers]

Question:
When Jesus spoke about Elijah having returned and been killed already...was.he referring to john the Baptist or someone else?

I believe Jesus was referring to John The Baptist as Elijah in Type. Jesus second return will be preceded by two prophets. I believe one to be Elijah.

 

[KoncreteMind]

We shouldnt need Jesus to believe in resurrection if you read about Ezekiel speaking about David being resurrected. Then theres also Job:

Job 19
25 For I know that my Redeemer lives,
And He shall stand at last on the earth;
26And after my skin is [a]destroyed, this I know,
That in my flesh I shall see God,

 

[Douglas Summers]

We shouldnt need Jesus to believe in resurrection if you read about Ezekiel speaking about David being resurrected. Then theres also Job:

Job 19
25 For I know that my Redeemer lives,
And He shall stand at last on the earth;
26And after my skin is [a]destroyed, this I know,
That in my flesh I shall see God,

Yes, There were a few OT saints that that had some insight, But Jesus brought it to light (Revealed), and not only did He bring it to light, He is the reason we have eternal life, Amen.

 

[AspiringSoul]

I believe Jesus was referring to John The Baptist as Elijah in Type. Jesus second return will be preceded by two prophets. I believe one to be Elijah.

ok what i say now, isn't concrete it's just current opinion/guessing with some fact.

The fact is that the Greeks didn't only believe in hades, they also believed in reincarnation. I've been repeating it for a longgg time but hellenistic mythologies were borrowed/copied from ancient india. Just like modern new age era is built on hindu philosophy with a mix of christian.

The Talmud/pharisees certainly believed in reincarnation and the return of Elijah as another man WAS based on reincarnation. It's yet another reason why the sadducee (jewish protestents) rejected Jesus because when he was questioned on Elijah's return, here's what he said

Matthew 11
13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. 15 Whoever has ears, let them hear.

So if John the Baptist was Elijah returned, that is reincarnation.

This of course is yet another theme most muslims would never admit either. Although reincarnation is totally misunderstood. It doesn't mean you get multiple chances, it means your soul energy ie the attachments you had to the world can be purified by attaching to someone else who then fulfills the attachment.
So if I died but had unfulfilled wishes here on earth, the energy connected with that wish could attach to someone/thing else until the wish is fulfilled.
Does this make sense? Once that attachment is gone, the soul can then proceed to the next level.


The two witnesses/prophets mentioned in Revelation 11 imo are not 2 literal prophets but are symbolic of Christianity and Islam. In the same prophecy it speaks of the gentiles...and the antichrist 'kills' the 2 prophets in Jerusalem, because obv they reject him. This can only be true for the 2 religions that believe in Jesus as the messiah.

The prophecy in Isaiah 40 reads
A voice of one calling: "In the wilderness prepare the way for the LORD; make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

This was fulfilled by John the Baptist, confirmed in Matthew 3
In those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea 2 and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.” 3 This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah:
“A voice of one calling in the wilderness,
‘Prepare the way for the Lord,
make straight paths for him.’”

BUT there is a discrepancy in the way the christians have worded this

the original/isaiah
A voice of one calling: "In the wilderness.....

matthew 3
“A voice of one calling in the wilderness,
you can directly see there is a major difference between the 2. I believe christians made this alteration on purpose, it is a little deception but it means something entirely different when it's quoted correctly.


"In the wilderness prepare the way for the LORD; make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
preparing the straight highway in the desert........is something fulfilled through islam.

This is probably hard for you to accept, but there are so many proofs in the bible for this, least of all this one

Deuteronomy 33
He said, "The LORD came from Sinai, And dawned on them from Seir; He shone forth from Mount Paran, And He came from the midst of ten thousand holy ones; At His right hand there was flashing lightning for them.

sinai=judaism
seir=christianity (mt seir is in syria..this is really the home of christianity)
paran=islam.

We know paran is the wilderness mentioned in the Torah.

Jude 1
14 It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones, 15 to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” 16 These are grumblers, malcontents, following their own sinful desires; they are loud-mouthed boasters, showing favoritism to gain advantage.


This also connects with john 16 where Jesus said

7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. 8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; 10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; 11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

ie this event is meant to happen before Jesus returns, clearly you can see Jesus wasn't saying he would fulfill it but the holy spirit would.
I believe this came true through islam.

The army of Mohammad SAW when he conquered Mecca was 10,000 strong. Mt Paran obviously was 'the wilderness'. Islam calls itself 'the straight path'.
The prophecy in Jude 1 and John 16 about judgement, refers to islam..and this war is not over..it is ongoing until it is completed by the Mahdi who is the 12th Caliph of Quraysh, fulfilling the prophecy of the 12 princes promised to Ismael.

These are not even vague statements but they are strong positions in islam. Everyone knows the Mahdi is the 12th. The shia think he is the 12th imam and the sunnis say he is the 12th Caliph from Quraysh.

the 12 caliph prophecy

Imam Muslim on Sahih Muslim wrote: Rasulullah s.a.w said: "This religion (Islam) will remain standing until twelve caliph, which all of them is from Quraysh, rule over you." (Sahih Muslim)​

Imam Abu Dawud on Shahih Abi Dawud wrote: Masyruq said: We were sitting with Abdullah bin Mas'ud to learn Al-Qur'an from him. Someone asked him: Did you ask Rasulullah s.a.w how many caliphs will rule this ummah? Ibnu Mas'ud answered: Of course we asked this thing from Rasulullah s.a.w and he answered: "Twelve, like the amount of the leaders of Banu Israel." (Shahih Al-Bukhari)​

a few Mahdi prophecies



Narrated Jabir ibn Samurah: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The religion will continue to be established till there are twelve caliphs over you, and the whole community will agree on each of them. I then heard from the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) some remarks which I could not understand. I asked my father: What is he saying: He said: all of them will belong to Quraysh.

Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: If only one day of this world remained. Allah would lengthen that day (according to the version of Za'idah), till He raised up in it a man who belongs to me or to my family whose father's name is the same as my father's, who will fill the earth with equity and justice as it has been filled with oppression and tyranny (according to the version of Fitr). Sufyan's version says: The world will not pass away before the Arabs are ruled by a man of my family whose name will be the same as mine.

Narrated AbuSa'id al-Khudri: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The Mahdi will be of my stock, and will have a broad forehead a prominent nose. He will fill the earth will equity and justice as it was filled with oppression and tyranny, and he will rule for seven years.

the last one is funny, i know what this means, 7 years of Mahdi's rule....i know how important 7 is in bible prophecy and know how christians/jews will give it a negative spin in light of the abomination of desolation prophecies (which btw are not the anti-christ prophecies but were fulfilled by Antiochus Ephiphanes and Titus and where Titus put an end to the sacrifice in the middle of the 7 years).

 

[Bacsi]

We shouldnt need Jesus to believe in resurrection if you read about Ezekiel speaking about David being resurrected. Then theres also Job:

Job 19
25 For I know that my Redeemer lives,
And He shall stand at last on the earth;
26And after my skin is [a]destroyed, this I know,
That in my flesh I shall see God,

One can interpret such things as reference to reincarnation.

 

[Douglas Summers]

ok what i say now, isn't concrete it's just current opinion/guessing with some fact.

Narrated AbuSa'id al-Khudri: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The Mahdi will be of my stock, and will have a broad forehead a prominent nose. He will fill the earth will equity and justice as it was filled with oppression and tyranny, and he will rule for seven years.

the last one is funny, i know what this means, 7 years of Mahdi's rule....i know how important 7 is in bible prophecy and know how christians/jews will give it a negative spin in light of the abomination of desolation prophecies (which btw are not the anti-christ prophecies but were fulfilled by Antiochus Ephiphanes and Titus and where Titus put an end to the sacrifice in the middle of the 7 years).

Greetings Soul, I'am a born again believer. This phrase is used loosely among the visible Church, but I was called by the Lord and received the Holy Spirit. I was 16 years old....I'm going on 73 now. Many will say they are born again, but you do not join,,...,you are called, It is Christ who adds to the Church. Many scoff when I tell them, I have talked with God, and His Spirit has interceded for me many times, But pride in so called knowledge always stiff arms the Spirit of God. I will tell you some time about my walk with God if you are interested. I will discuss some of your points later...It is my time with The Lord right now.
Shalom, Douglas Summers

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@Douglas Summers

1 Corinthians 15

12Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.16For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Death is the reward for making it through life.

Also

"A FEAR OF DEATH IS THE BEGINNING OF SLAVERY"
-RAW

Hi Ghostie, It is the opposite for the Born again believer. "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Knowledge (proverbs 9:10) And what we find out is (1 John 4:18) There is no fear in love, for perfect love casteth out fear. For without God's love for us in Jesus the Christ, we are already dead. (Eph. 2:1-2)

 

[KoncreteMind]

One can interpret such things as reference to reincarnation.

I dont agree that it is referring to reincarnation but it definitely could be taken that way for sure..

 

[Bacsi]

Death is the reward for making it through life.

Also

"A FEAR OF DEATH IS THE BEGINNING OF SLAVERY"
-RAW

I think any sort of fear is the best form of bondage for those who want to enslave people.

 

[Douglas Summers]

ok what i say now, isn't concrete it's just current opinion/guessing with some fact.

The fact is that the Greeks didn't only believe in hades, they also believed in reincarnation. I've been repeating it for a longgg time but hellenistic mythologies were borrowed/copied from ancient india. Just like modern new age era is built on hindu philosophy with a mix of christian.

The reason Jerusalem was occupied by the Muslim, was because of Jews rejection of The Son of David according to the flesh and Son of God according to the Spirit (ROM. 1:1-5) (Matt. 23:37-39) The Jews were scattered over the nation for centuries after 70 A.D., But they never lost their ethnicity, no matter what nation they were scattered to. I can see the Holocaust in (Deut. 28:63-68). But God promised to bring them back to their Land (Ezek. 36:18-38). In 1947, God kept His promise.

 

[AspiringSoul]

Lolol

 

[Douglas Summers]

So if John the Baptist was Elijah returned, that is reincarnation.

Hi Soul, John the Baptist was not Elijah. The religious leaders who went out to ask him who he was, asked the same question, "Are you Elijah"? (John 1:21-34). He answers them, "No, I'am not Elijah,". John the Baptist was prophesied in Isa. 40:3. When Elijah returns to announce the return of the Lord, It will not be reincarnation but a return from his translation..

 

[AspiringSoul]

Hi Soul, John the Baptist was not Elijah. The religious leaders who went out to ask him who he was, asked the same question, "Are you Elijah"? (John 1:21-34). He answers them, "No, I'am not Elijah,". John the Baptist was prophesied in Isa. 40:3. When Elijah returns to announce the return of the Lord, It will not be reincarnation but a return from his translation..

Jesus confirmed that it was him.
Jesus knew what John didn't know.

I could be wrong on this but I'm going off what I read ..

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Jesus confirmed that it was him.
Jesus knew what John didn't know.

I could be wrong on this but I'm going off what I read ..

An interesting question...

If the Jews had recognised Jesus for who He was, John would have "been" (after the paradigm) Elijah. They didn't so the question remained moot.

 

[Douglas Summers]

An interesting question...

If the Jews had recognised Jesus for who He was, John would have "been" (after the paradigm) Elijah. They didn't so the question remained moot.

Hi Soul, The Jews did know who Jesus was (John 3:1-3; John 12:41-43). The one thing the born again believer has that no other religion has is that, all religions in the world and their founders of that religion have died. But Christ ( who never broke the Law ) Died for our sins as the son of man and arouse for our justification as The son of God, and is an eternal High Priest in the order of Melchizedek.

As a young Believer, I was driving to work early one morning about 2:00 am. I was asking God how important Christ was compared to the Father. I was immediately standing outside of a window, looking into a room with rows of beds (something like an army barracks) from one end to the other. There were people in the beds sick. Some had just gotten sick and others were about to die. They had a sickness that there was no cure for. I could feel a panic as there was no cure for this sickness. Then I noticed in the right side of this building, walk in a tall man in a white coat with a cure for their sickness, and He set the medicine on the table. Those who were not as sick, got on their hands and knees and began to praise the doctor. And they turned to those who could not get out of bed and said, look what this doctor has done for us, and they continually praised the doctor over and over again for the cure. Then the Lord asked me.......what do you see? And as I looked around at all the praising going on, that the medicine was still on the table, no one had taken it. And He said to me, "This is the way it is, they worship the healer, but they don't take the medicine. One must take the medicine inside him to live. (Matt. 15:8-10) Then I noticed I was 20 or more miles down the road.
The Mercy of The Lord is from Everlasting to Everlasting,
Douglas Summers