Coronavirus v abortion

Haich

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I thought the gist of it was its the women’s body so she can choose whether or not to abort or not...and the dad doesn’t have any say so unless he goes along with what she wants.

40-50 million aborted babies isn’t because of r*pe and incest. And there does seem to be disproportionately high degree of single mothers in the world...so..
I think the father should have a say if they're in a relationship. It's his child just as much as hers...

If it's a causal encounter I doubt the guy would care.

I didn't say that they were because of r*pe and incest alone.
 

Haich

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Until the end sentence...and then you said
Quote the full sentence.

If you want to have a crazy life and sleep with multiple people, stay safe and be protected. It's simple!
 

Lisa

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I think the father should have a say if they're in a relationship. It's his child just as much as hers...

If it's a causal encounter I doubt the guy would care.

I didn't say that they were because of r*pe and incest alone.
No doubt he should but its a woman’s body, her choice...and the man has no input in that.

Idk, if the man would care or not in a casual encounter..I suppose it depends on the type of man he is?
 

Lisa

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Quote the full sentence.

If you want to have a crazy life and sleep with multiple people, stay safe and be protected. It's simple!
Sure..I was gonna..but that last part isn’t the fix. The fix is live responsibly.
 

Haich

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No doubt he should but its a woman’s body, her choice...and the man has no input in that.

Idk, if the man would care or not in a casual encounter..I suppose it depends on the type of man he is?
Yeah it depends but let's be honest, if it's casual the chances are he doesn't see longevity in their relationship and probably wouldn't want to know!
 

Haich

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Sure..I was gonna..but that last part isn’t the fix. The fix is live responsibly.
But they won't live responsibly.

Hypersexuality and promiscuity is the norm these days...people see it as liberating and God forbid we infringe on their rights to shag whomever and wherever!

You can't police a decaying society with little to no morals...from TV to film, monogamy is being presented as old fashioned and people are being presented with 'no strings' encounters where you get your kicks and leave. Here we have a saying, 'don't catch feelings!' Which means don't fall for anyone, just have sex and go...

People will continue to do what they want and evade responsibility. Your bible won't change that...that's just how some pockets of society are...
 

Haich

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I think with this issue, it does really depend on circumstance and I genuinely do not believe every woman who has an abortion should be demonized because it isn't a decision she has taken lightly!

We should definitely change our attitudes to sex, so that we can prevent the consequences that come from practising casual, sometimes unprotected, sex. This is an issue of responsibility which is different, my view, to abortion, as not every woman is responsible for her pregnancy...hence the need for abortion in some circumstances.
 

Lisa

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This is an issue of responsibility which is different, my view, to abortion, as not every woman is responsible for her pregnancy...hence the need for abortion in some circumstances.
There should never be the need to kill the unborn..that should not be the way to solve the pregnancy problem.
 

Haich

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There should never be the need to kill the unborn..that should not be the way to solve the pregnancy problem.
The problem with your statement is that it includes women who did not have a choice in their pregnancy. Women were not responsible for being impregnated because it was against their will..

You can have your views, Lisa. I'm not attacking you for them but I just don't understand what your solution or answer would be to a r*pe or assault victim forced to keep the child of her attacker...

That's why I don't get how you can be absolutely against abortion...without taking circumstance into consideration.
 

Lisa

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The problem with your statement is that it includes women who did not have a choice in their pregnancy. Women were not responsible for being impregnated because it was against their will..

You can have your views, Lisa. I'm not attacking you for them but I just don't understand what your solution or answer would be to a r*pe or assault victim forced to keep the child of her attacker...

That's why I don't get how you can be absolutely against abortion...without taking circumstance into consideration.
Should the solution to an unwanted pregnancy due to r*pe be that the baby dies though? What did the baby do to deserve death in this circumstance? I understand the trauma of the mother..but does the baby deserve death? I just don’t see why that’s the solution...death shouldn’t be the solution. To me it would be like saying that the mother went through something so traumatic..we must kill her for it. Doesn’t make any sense does it?
 
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The correlation is that people want to save their lives in the virus..but they could care less about a helpless baby in its mother’s womb..
People want to save an unborn life, but don't care about people who are alive... You know, like the people getting bombed by drones or the homeless people you hate. Two can play that game, Lisa.
 

Lisa

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People want to save an unborn life, but don't care about people who are alive... You know, like the people getting bombed by drones or the homeless people you hate. Two can play that game, Lisa.
I happen to care about both alive and unborn people, thanks. But the unborn have a harder time speaking for themselves...
 

Haich

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Should the solution to an unwanted pregnancy due to r*pe be that the baby dies though? What did the baby do to deserve death in this circumstance? I understand the trauma of the mother..but does the baby deserve death? I just don’t see why that’s the solution...death shouldn’t be the solution. To me it would be like saying that the mother went through something so traumatic..we must kill her for it. Doesn’t make any sense does it?
You didn't answer my question. What is the alternative?
 

elsbet

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Speaking of hypocrisy, pro-lifers want abortion to be abolished, but they definitely don't want to pay for all the poor children running around as a result.

Of course, and as I've tried to explain before hypocrisy doesn't negate the pro-life moral argument. And conversely, hypocrisy doesn't negate the pro-choice argument of economic disparity. These are "red herring" arguments at best.

We kill animals to stop them from suffering, and it's not considered inhumane or immoral. So that's pretty much my counter to the pro-life moral argument. That it's immoral to sentence a child to a life of suffering.
Is it immoral to assume the candidates for abortion are condemned to a life of suffering? I don't think children are comparable to puppies. Some of the best people come from difficult backgrounds. Mind you-- I don't think the government should regulate it, necessarily.. but neither do I think they should support it.

Idk... there's just something inherently wrong about killing people.
 

polyxerxes

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I feel like the abortion debate isn't going anywhere. Abortion in itself is not an inherently evil thing. You're simply removing a fetus from the uterus. This is something that needs to be done when you have a miscarriage for example. In cases where the baby is still alive you're terminating the pregnancy, thus killing the baby. This is usually where religious people start to join the debate because killing someone goes against the Word of God, making abortion an immoral practice. Almost all of the tactics of religious people involve convincing pro-choicers that the fetus is in fact a living being with a nervous system and they'll start telling you how it has nails and showing pictures of the different stages of the development etc., all in an attempt to convince the public that abortion is murder and it's awful and needs to end. Most ppl agree that killing another human is bad. The thing is, those tactics don't work. Everyone knows they're killing a baby when they get an abortion, it won't stop them from having one. No one WANTS to get an abortion. It's not a nice thing to go through. Most women getting an abortion are in really tough situations. Abortion isn't the problem. Abortion is a symptom of a fucked up economic system and a fucked up world in general. Getting rid of it won't solve the issues leading to an abortion. And yeah I'm sure there are people who use it as a contraceptive, and to those people all I have to say is, use prOTECTION.
Ultimately, abortion has been around for a while. People will always try to get rid of an unwanted pregnancy because it's unwanted. It's better that people have access to safe abortions rather than them DIYing it at home and simultaneously risking their lives.

*slightly annoyed by the amounts of time I've written the word abortion*
 

Lisa

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I feel like the abortion debate isn't going anywhere. Abortion in itself is not an inherently evil thing. You're simply removing a fetus from the uterus. This is something that needs to be done when you have a miscarriage for example. In cases where the baby is still alive you're terminating the pregnancy, thus killing the baby. This is usually where religious people start to join the debate because killing someone goes against the Word of God, making abortion an immoral practice. Almost all of the tactics of religious people involve convincing pro-choicers that the fetus is in fact a living being with a nervous system and they'll start telling you how it has nails and showing pictures of the different stages of the development etc., all in an attempt to convince the public that abortion is murder and it's awful and needs to end. Most ppl agree that killing another human is bad. The thing is, those tactics don't work. Everyone knows they're killing a baby when they get an abortion, it won't stop them from having one. No one WANTS to get an abortion. It's not a nice thing to go through. Most women getting an abortion are in really tough situations. Abortion isn't the problem. Abortion is a symptom of a fucked up economic system and a fucked up world in general. Getting rid of it won't solve the issues leading to an abortion. And yeah I'm sure there are people who use it as a contraceptive, and to those people all I have to say is, use prOTECTION.
Ultimately, abortion has been around for a while. People will always try to get rid of an unwanted pregnancy because it's unwanted. It's better that people have access to safe abortions rather than them DIYing it at home and simultaneously risking their lives.

*slightly annoyed by the amounts of time I've written the word abortion*
Abortion is evil...killing the unborn are evil no matter what excuse you give it. And it is immoral to kill an innocent soul. One could say it’s just a bunch of cells but it’s living cells, it’s growing into a human and after a time it’s shape is human, it’s heart is beating and it is still living in a womb waiting to be born.

I can’t say that there is an equality to you deciding to kill your baby and a miscarriage. Two separate things.
 

Haich

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The alternative to killing the baby? Having it of course.
No, you misunderstood. My fault, let me be clear and give you an example.

A woman is pregnant, let's say around 4 months. She is told by the doctor that this child will not survive and due to some extensive health complication, mother is at risk of death if she continues with the pregnancy.

This woman comes to your church and asks you for advice. What do you do?
 

Lisa

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No, you misunderstood. My fault, let me be clear and give you an example.

A woman is pregnant, let's say around 4 months. She is told by the doctor that this child will not survive and due to some extensive health complication, mother is at risk of death if she continues with the pregnancy.

This woman comes to your church and asks you for advice. What do you do?
The thing is...that’s not the norm. The norm is someone gets pregnant and doesn’t want the baby so she gets her abortion that everyone says and cheers about it being right. Not really even thinking that it could be wrong. That’s how you get 40-50 million abortions a year. Let’s leave out the abnormal case and stick to the majority.
 

polyxerxes

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Abortion is evil...killing the unborn are evil no matter what excuse you give it. And it is immoral to kill an innocent soul. One could say it’s just a bunch of cells but it’s living cells, it’s growing into a human and after a time it’s shape is human, it’s heart is beating and it is still living in a womb waiting to be born.
The practice of removing a fetus from the womb isn't evil. The intentions behind that could either make it evil or not.

Also you don't need to tell me that it's a living baby, i already know that! And my exact point was that the tactic of telling people about how it truly is a living being won't help your cause. It's not really gonna change anyones mind if they're in a situation where they either really need, or think they need an abortion. I don't think abortions are good, i think it's sad that anyone would ever get an abortion, both for the mom and the baby.
If you truly want to make a change, how about you start by trying to understand the different factors that lead to an abortion? And try to prevent those before they happen? I'm sure that's not easy to do alone though..
 
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