Confederate Soldier Statues...

polymoog

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People are calling for it and if they decide to do that it's their choice. Assuming it's fear of riots is an assumption - they've been standing there all this time riot proof so far.


things have only gotten completely crazy with PC nonsense since 9-11. before then, this extreme agenda was not pushed hard by the NWO.


liberals didn't just wake up yesterday and decide racism and monuments to slavery were bad, despite your belief in "cultural Marxism" and it's relative infancy that remains true.


you are flat out wrong, and you dont know anything about cultural marxism if you say that.


Years ago NYC had a big to do about honoring Colombus. As an Italian it was a little off putting but I understood. I didn't take it as an assult on my ancestors, just a recognition that despite that he was a controversial person who caused some negative feelings in enough people and so be it. I didn't get butt hurt over it.

columbus happened. the fact that he was part jewish and matreated the indians wont change history (even though he wasnt the first person to discover north america). same deal: leave the statue up to show that we were in error that he wasnt the first to discover north america and that he wasnt the benevolent explorer we thought he was. fact is, he did re-discover the US which began the european colonization, villian or not. that said, we dont need to celebrate him. respect his achievement? yes. who the hell is squeaky clean? mother teresa? ghandi? albert einstein? think again.


These statues serve the people better in museums if you are truly worried about education.


yes, we know how institutes of "learning" like the smithsonian handle things.
 

justjess

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ANd a statue in the middle of a park in the middle of nowhere with no inscription or explanation other then name and date of birth and death is serving what educational purpose?

Not to mention that park was donated for WHITE PEOPLE ONLY IN PERPETUITY by the same man who donated the statue.. and you want to Deny the people who live their the right to take it down?

If they changed colombus day or took down statues to him my white Italian heart isn't going to be broke. Nor is the end of celebrating him going to erase him from history. We don't honor Hitler but he certainly hasn't been erased.

So people weren't against racism and homages to slavery prior to 911 and the rise of "cultural Marxism" in your opinion? You said I'm flat out wrong but that's all I said.

There's a difference between being squeaky clean and literally fighting a war so you can continue to exploit a group of human beings.
 

polymoog

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So people weren't against racism and homages to slavery prior to 911 and the rise of "cultural Marxism" in your opinion? You said I'm flat out wrong but that's all I said.

have you not noiced what george soros has done? are you totally unaware of his actions and who he funds?
have you even looked at this mans history and his connections with the nazis?


looks like abe lincoln is now being targeted. LOL. but thats ok with you because he said something racist?
https://www.rt.com/usa/399723-lincoln-memorial-vandalized/

and teddy roosevelt....
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/08/next-came-teddy-alt-left-demands-new-york-museum-remove-teddy-roosevelt-statue/
 

polymoog

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https://www.rt.com/op-edge/399585-charlottesville-america-trump-violence/

"The willingness to remove statues from our main squares is just one step away, I believe, from demanding history books be purged from any reference to such events for fear of offending somebody. In both cases, we wish to remove the physical content because we find it morally offensive. But isn't that the same thing as forgetting history? Thanks to the toxic atmosphere of political correctness that has sanitized all debate and discussion, we already see the first signs of such extreme thinking. It's a sad day in America when university campuses, the very fountain of free thought, resort to violence every time a controversial guest speaker is invited to address a group of students.

So deeply entrenched are the roots of political correctness that Americans, who can barely pronounce the words 'male' and 'female' these days without facing a lawsuit, are now willing to remove not only stone representations of dead historical figures who still have hard lessons to teach, but living, breathing individuals carrying messages that some may find unsettling, yet that have a right to be spoken nevertheless.

As a nation, we've traveled light years away from the sound advice given by the English writer, Beatrice Hall, who said, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." "
 

Maes17

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Chalk it all up to political correctness to ruin our country.

The point to history and especially the bad is to learn from it and not make those mistakes.

Far from racist myself, but the left has been acting out in hostile aggression. At that both sides are allowed to protest in a non violent matter.

When two opposing sides cross paths. It gets ugly. Quite sad
 

polymoog

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At that both sides are allowed to protest in a non violent matter.

When two opposing sides cross paths. It gets ugly. Quite sad
keep in mind, the ultra leftists did NOT have a permit from the city. the alt-rightists did. with the police pushing the protestors together into one another, its evident that they got what they wanted: a racial riot. now they can clamp down on some more of our freedoms.

by the way, lee hated slavery and had freed his own, yet he stood by his state and fought for the constitution, against the tyranny of the union. not that i would expect antifa to know that, but with racism on their mind, they shouldve toppled honest abes statue first.
 
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Haich

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History is preserved in books. The statues don't actually tell you the story. There's only so much you can say in a four-sentence inscription.
'Here's a brass statue of Hitler. He was a bad guy and killed a lot of people. This statue is condemning him'
 

UnderAlienControl

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If We Erase Our History, Who Are We?
http://buchanan.org/blog/if-we-erase-our-history-who-are-we-127510

Next They Came for Teddy…. Alt-Left Demands New York Museum Remove Teddy Roosevelt Statue
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/08/next-came-teddy-alt-left-demands-new-york-museum-remove-teddy-roosevelt-statue/

Leftists in N. Carolina Scream, Kick, and Spit on Inanimate Metal Object
http://ibankcoin.com/flyblog/2017/08/15/leftists-n-carolina-scream-kick-spit-inanimate-object/#sthash.tZXW9nsD.dpbs

Lincoln Memorial defaced as officials across US reassess Confederate-era monuments
https://www.rt.com/usa/399723-lincoln-memorial-vandaliz

Baltimore votes to rid itself of 4 Confederate statues

https://www.rt.com/usa/399724-baltimore-votes-against-confederate-monuments/

NOT SO FAST: Police Arrest Protester Who Scaled Confederate Statue Before Crowd Tore It Down
http://ibankcoin.com/zeropointnow/2017/08/15/not-so-fast-police-arrest-protester-who-scaled-confederate-statue-before-crowd-tears-it-down/


Mayor Rahm Emanuel has been petitioned to remove statues of George Washington and Andrew Jackson from city parks.
 
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Red Sky at Morning

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Should our pasts be whitewashed by the political sensibilities of the day? some say yes, others no, but it occurs to me that one way to prevent people from learning the lessons of history is to erase it altogether from public view.

I don't think statues of clearly evil people deserve pride of place, but most people are a mix of good and bad actions and on a national level, some of these have shaped the direction of countries for good or bad.

ISIS like to take a sledgehammer to culture if they don't approve of it. We should not automatically follow their example.
 
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Should our pasts be whitewashed by the political sensibilities of the day?
NO.. which is why the existence of the statues should never have been justified in the first place, as I mentioned previously. What you're missing is that the whole point was to whitewash and erase historical context by denying that the civil war was ever about slavery and painting people such as general Lee in a positive light, even going as far as denying the fact that he was a total white supremacist d*ckbag, which incidentally made many other white supremacists quite angry. The statues are symbolically the same as the revisionist fabricated bullsh!t now known as the "Lost Cause" narrative that I've seen mentioned in this thread. (@polymoog you are far too gullible if you still believe that outdated nonsense that racist southerners love to cling on to like their life depends on it, even though it's been shown over and over to be patently false)

If the moods and attitudes had been different and more appropriate when the monuments were conceived, they would honor those who died rather than attempt to erase historical context by honoring the men who bear the most responsibility for hundreds of thousands of deaths.. so that we would never forget. Unfortunately we opted to forget instead.. pathetic and selfish.

Now that the mood has shifted toward national reconciliation of our past, obviously people will feel threatened, but not directly by the removal of tacky statues, rather they are really threatened by their very own cognitive dissonance and unwillingness to face reality.
 

justjess

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The park was donated during Jim Crow and the height of the ku klux klan by a man who also donated the land for the park its in for "the use of whites in perpetuity"

Removing it isn't white washing history it's removing honoring an ideology that we collectively decided had no place years ago. Do you guys really think taking down confederate statues is going to erase the civil war from history books and lessons etc? That's absurd imo.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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The park was donated during Jim Crow and the height of the ku klux klan by a man who also donated the land for the park its in for "the use of whites in perpetuity"

Removing it isn't white washing history it's removing honoring an ideology that we collectively decided had no place years ago. Do you guys really think taking down confederate statues is going to erase the civil war from history books and lessons etc? That's absurd imo.
Just to say I am not really one to say how things ought to be in the US, being a UK dweller! Over here we have statues and memorials to the various people of note through our history, and few of them are without one controversy or another.

That having been said, I can see a valid case for statues that truly symbolise oppression to come down or be relocated - remember how statues of Lenin fared after the collapse of the Soviet Union?
 
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Sunshine

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In Virginia it was the community who voted to remove the statue and place it in a museum. It was voted and decided. This is the statue at issue in these protests.

No, actually the Lee statue was being removed by the decree of a Vice Mayor of the city who has a history of being racially inflammatory and divisive. The original protest permit was given to local citizens who wanted the statue to remain, and the name of the park to remain unchanged. The city council, under pressure from the Vice Mayor, refused to let the protest happen, despite the fact that these local citizens had previously obtained a legal permit. The "Unite the Right" group, consisting of, you guessed it, local citizens got assistance from the ACLU (a group so liberal that it would have run kicking and screaming if these guys were actual racists) to take the case to court, wherein it was found that the council was wrong to deny them their freedom of assembly. So they rescheduled. Unfortunately for them, the governor of VA set them up by sending in the State Police, and apparently the leftist mob, which worked together to undermine public safety and cause a big fat "race riot," brought to you by those fabulous tools in the msm.

Baltimore is removing statues because they want to be politically correct, i.e. fashionable, and NY is doing it as a preemptive move against their overly-miseducated populace having yet another excuse to riot and be violent at the end of a long hot summer.

And yes, removing statues certainly does qualify as rewriting history. While no one is going around worshiping them, monuments are evidence of the people and events that determine the nature of a society. You may not like that the Civil War happened, but that will never affect the fact that it did happen. So now you want to take away the evidence, so your sons and daughters can pretend it didn't happen? Will that make you somehow feel better?

Because the people in charge of our children's education will stop putting it in history books, if you let them. Less paper, less ink, less time to invest in teaching, investigating all those people and places and reasons why. Less chance of ideas about liberty and self-determination and fighting for what you believe in lodging in their compliant little heads.

Sorry if it makes you uncomfortable, but the world we live in is not yet all hugs and daisies. Our nation, and all nations, have bloody and complicated histories. Our descendants will judge us, our forefathers and themselves, by those histories. If you sanitize out all the "Bad guys," and "bad decisions" and "Bad circumstances," how will those descendants recognize them in the future, and know how to deal with them? Kids today are already getting a frighteningly watered-down/slanted view of history in public schools and universities. If you take away half of the information they're going to need to make rational political and social decisions, then our society is fucked.

And it all starts with public works like statues of generals, or dictators, or Buddhas, whether they're your heroes or someone else's, doesn't really matter. They lived, they fought, they died, they impacted our world, for better or worse. Deal with it. Learn from it. And let others do the same.
 

justjess

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LOl god some of you people are so incredibly nasty..

I could give a rats ass if they take down the statues or not but I'm not going to sit here like some overly dramatic drama queen pretending like removing the statue - to a museum - is going to somehow eradicate the civil war from history books or lessons. Last I checked that's a huge chapter of us history and numerous memorials still stand in no danger of being removed. Battlefields, museums, sites of attacks, monuments to the victims, not to mention billions of mentions in history books and history classes which lean in every direction you can think of.

The council voted to remove the statue. That's pretty much the bottom line. It was their right to do so. The people at the rally had a right to voice their displeasure about that but that's assuming far as their rights go in this case. And please quit pretending they were all local - the one who ran someone over was from Ohio.

Also please stop pretending that statue was educational. The only information noted on it was name and dates of birth and death.

Now ny'ers are miseducated and violent? Please get over yourself. Your mad about people making assumptions about the self professed white nationalists at a rally based on their own comments but have absolutely zero problem making ill informed blanket statements about an entire city full of millions of people? Double standard much?
 
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