Confederate Soldier Statues...

Etagloc

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And yes, Lincoln didn't care about the slaves... he freed them for political reasons.

But do you think that really mattered to the slaves?

The end result is the same, regardless of what his motivation was.
 






polymoog

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You're probably not even from the South, how are you gonna tell me about the South? I was born and raised there. I'm not white. The Confederates fought for slavery and white supremacy. I'd be crazy to support them.

The Southerners who are for all that are the racist white rednecks. Hell no, I'm not for that.

Let's go to the South and ask the Black Southerners how they feel about the Confederates.

plenty of new yorkers born and raised in NYC who know nothing about 9-11, and that wasnt even that long ago. if the confederates fought for white supremacy, then why did they have relationships with the blacks where the yanks would turn their nose up?

go ask em. ill ask some jews if the holocaust happened.
 






polymoog

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No. The medium is the message. People historically have WORSHIPPED statues. To make a statue of someone is a statement in itself. .
thats your religion talking, unless you are saying that you would be fine with a rectangle monument and an engraving about the famous generals of the south.
 






Etagloc

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plenty of new yorkers born and raised in NYC who know nothing about 9-11, and that wasnt even that long ago. if the confederates fought for white supremacy, then why did they have relationships with the blacks where the yanks would turn their nose up?

go ask em. ill ask some jews if the holocaust happened.
Ask the confederates?

Good idea. Let's run with it.

 






Etagloc

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thats your religion talking, unless you are saying that you would be fine with a rectangle monument and an engraving about the famous generals of the south.
That is not "my religion"... people historically have worshipped statues. That's not a religious doctrine... I mean that's just a very simple fact. You may have heard of a religion called Hinduism.
 






polymoog

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http://www.scv.org/new/contributed-works/black-confederates/

It has been estimated that over 65,000 Southern blacks were in the Confederate ranks. Over 13,000 of these, “saw the elephant” also known as meeting the enemy in combat. These Black Confederates included both slave and free. The Confederate Congress did not approve blacks to be officially enlisted as soldiers (except as musicians), until late in the war. But in the ranks it was a different story. Many Confederate officers did not obey the mandates of politicians, they frequently enlisted blacks with the simple criteria; “Will you fight?” Historian Ervin Jordan, explains that “biracial units” were frequently organized “by local Confederate and State militia Commanders in response to immediate threats in the form of Union raids…”. Dr. Leonard Haynes, an African-American professor at Southern University, stated, “When you eliminate the black Confederate soldier, you’ve eliminated the history of the South.”
 






polymoog

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That is not "my religion"... people historically have worshipped statues. That's not a religious doctrine... I mean that's just a very simple fact. You may have heard of a religion called Hinduism.
when you see a southerner praying to the statue, let me know. otherwise, keep the statue worship argument closed.
 






Etagloc

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http://www.scv.org/new/contributed-works/black-confederates/

It has been estimated that over 65,000 Southern blacks were in the Confederate ranks. Over 13,000 of these, “saw the elephant” also known as meeting the enemy in combat. These Black Confederates included both slave and free. The Confederate Congress did not approve blacks to be officially enlisted as soldiers (except as musicians), until late in the war. But in the ranks it was a different story. Many Confederate officers did not obey the mandates of politicians, they frequently enlisted blacks with the simple criteria; “Will you fight?” Historian Ervin Jordan, explains that “biracial units” were frequently organized “by local Confederate and State militia Commanders in response to immediate threats in the form of Union raids…”. Dr. Leonard Haynes, an African-American professor at Southern University, stated, “When you eliminate the black Confederate soldier, you’ve eliminated the history of the South.”
It's a little-known fact that Confederate technology was more advanced than many realize.

I actually discovered this old TV clip of an interview with one of the Black Confederate soldiers you mentioned

 






polymoog

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We wouldn't support statues of Hitler.
i absolutely would support a statue of hitler in germany with historical context added to the inscription. do you think ignoring the past or just wiping it from history makes things all better? how does one learn from history if the past is erased?

monuments are RECORDS of events. how you feel about them is totally subjective.

ill give you the last word on this. ive stated my case.
 






Etagloc

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when you see a southerner praying to the statue, let me know. otherwise, keep the statue worship argument closed.
i absolutely would support a statue of hitler in germany with historical context added to the inscription. do you think ignoring the past or just wiping it from history makes things all better? how does one learn from history if the past is erased?
Miss me with the strawman argument. I never said anything about Southerners worshipping statues.

No. The medium is the message. People historically have WORSHIPPED statues. To make a statue of someone is a statement in itself.

We wouldn't support statues of Hitler.
What is it with people selectively misinterpreting my posts?

The point is that if you make a statue of someone you're glorifying them just by making a statue of them. This is why cultures all across the world have worshipped statues and idols and why many religious people have been opposed to statues period. To my understanding, that's why, for example, many Muslims are even against making images of Muhammad.

If you make a statue of someone, that is inherently glorifying them. It will achieve that effect even if you write an inscription supposedly condemning them.
 






Etagloc

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i absolutely would support a statue of hitler in germany with historical context added to the inscription. do you think ignoring the past or just wiping it from history makes things all better? how does one learn from history if the past is erased?

monuments are RECORDS of events. how you feel about them is totally subjective.

ill give you the last word on this. ive stated my case.
Bearing what I explained in my last post in mind, the fact that you would support a Hitler statue says a lot about you. No wonder you support statues of Confederate generals. I wouldn't be surprised if you were a closet white supremacist.
 






Etagloc

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i absolutely would support a statue of hitler in germany with historical context added to the inscription. do you think ignoring the past or just wiping it from history makes things all better? how does one learn from history if the past is erased?

monuments are RECORDS of events. how you feel about them is totally subjective.

ill give you the last word on this. ive stated my case.
How masses of people subjectively feel objectively impacts society. Otherwise, mass mind control would have no point. The south is plagued with racism to this day and glorifying the Confederates will only make the problem worse.
 






polymoog

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Bearing what I explained in my last post in mind, the fact that you would support a Hitler statue says a lot about you. No wonder you support statues of Confederate generals. I wouldn't be surprised if you were a closet white supremacist.
so... if i support a monument at the battle of wounded knee, i am supporting the massacre of the indians? o_O
 






Etagloc

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so... if i support a monument at the battle of wounded knee, i am supporting the massacre of the indians? o_O
If it's just a monument commemorating the battle, not necessarily. I wouldn't be opposed to, say, rectangular or geometric monuments commemorating "this is where such-and-such" civil war battle took place. I don't think that's wrong. But statues that glorify Confederate leaders? They should be destroyed along with what they represent.
 






Etagloc

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ahhh, the old racism card. please go on.
The South is full of racism. You've probably never even been to the South. If you grew up there like I did, then you know what I'm talking about. If you haven't been there, you don't know.
 






Etagloc

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And obviously you're very more than likely a white person from what you're posting here and so you can just conveniently ignore the racism that exists in the world. Other people don't have that privilege. Especially minorities in the South.
 






williejonesjr

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Statues are referents. Nothing more. They aren't a memory or an exact recollection of an event.

If the South (North, DC, wherever) was burning down, and you had 5 mins to gather the most important artifacts-

would you waste time trying to gather statues?
 






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