Comparing Christianity and Islam

Bacsi

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#41
You wondered how God would respond to people who didn't have the opportunity to be introduced to the Gospel. I explained that the Bible addressed this and recognizes that people are capable of intuitively knowing how to obey the one who created them. So, in conclusion, the Bible does say that Jesus is the only way and that people aren't judged for not being exposed to the Gospel, which seems like it would alleviate the confusion.
So he's the way, but not for all?
 





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#42
So he's the way, but not for all?
It's really very simple. For Christians, the great commission is a way of demonstrating obedience to Christ. This demonstrates obedience because it requires faith to confess the message of the Gospel to another person that has no guarantee of being received at the time that it is given. You can see yourself that before taking the leap of faith to confess Christ to another person, the action carries many unknowns. You may be saying "what difference does it make to confess the message of the Gospel to someone else?" Many people have asked the same question because the difference is hidden and so the action remains a way of testing our faith that is similar to the experience of Abraham when he acted in faith and left his home to go to the land that God would give Him.

Therefore, because this is a way to test our faith, which is synonymous with obedience to Christ, it stands to reason that there will be many people who did not hear the Gospel over the years even with the effort that has been made to share this with others. Does it seem reasonable to have already answered a question like yours then? Essentially, what it means that the Bible says that Jesus is the way and that there have still been people who have intuitively known how to obey the one who created them, is that you are not asking a new question. Outside of this, there is no way to really answer your question because the real answer remains hidden without a confession. Would it cost you anything to take a leap of faith?

Also, let's say you were God hypothetically. What would you decide would be a good way to test someone's faith?
 





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#44
So he's the way, but not for all?
Have you ever been to an event where there is an announcement as to what to do in the event of a fire? They usually say what to listen for, what to do and where to go.

Almost no one listens.

After tragedies, the question is always asked "why did more people not get out". Usually the same answer comes back - they weren't listening.

2182.jpg

Or perhaps, in a similar way:

john-3-16-2.jpg
 





Bacsi

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#45
The point is that there is an underlying metaphysical map that balances between the feminine and masculine and relates to God's Transcendence and immanence. you have the logical truth representing God's Transcendence and youhave the mystical truth representing Gods Immanence.
This requires a balance.
...the real Islam is balanced whereas the Islam of the masses today is just a sort of lost and most Muslims don't understand. So u have salafis on one side and Sufis on the other and no one is really balanced.
same as Judaism and Christianity Inc the sects within.

According the the verse in the sig Allah revealed the truth to all of us and what we differ on is due to ignorance of the whole map.

Don't get me wrong even in the Qur'an were told there are some Jews and Christians who are true to their religion and book and it is the same for Muslims.

Another form of truth is objective truth Vs subjective truth. Much of what is in scripture is mythological truth /subjective and its purpose is to shape the minds of people in ways God knows best. We don't possess that wisdom to fully understand the will of God. The verse n the sig makes it clear that Allah could have made us all one but chose not to and therefore the areas we differ on will have a perfect explanation.
For example were it not for the Jews rejecting Jesus the gentiles would not have been reckoned. Likewise it was due to their reshaping of the messianic archetypes in the aftermath of Roman Christianity and persecution during Byzantine times that they then sought to manifest a kingdom in Jerusalem and a new davidic Messiah ..and yet because of the curses in the Torah placed on them after their rejection of Jesus ..what they desired was given to their enemy.
End result that entire davidic and mosaic archetype manifested as prophet Mohammad saw instead..this was also the work of God.
So you then have to really look deep at these archetypes and the parts of scripture that shape them.
How does this extend to the new testament and Qur'an ie what type of things /events/people have and will yet come into the world?
Basically it's better to see how each religion and it's followers have their merits even when they appear fallen/lost.
For sure. It's not about being fallen or lost or false etc. It's a mixed bag. They play their role in the overall evolution. Mythological or mystical - the balance is always the key. In my people's background, our traditions weren't influenced by the Middle Eastern religions until relatively recently and not so strongly. Generally we see them as barbaric and full of violence. Our archetypes are kind and inclusive.
 





Bacsi

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#46
Have you ever been to an event where there is an announcement as to what to do in the event of a fire? They usually say what to listen for, what to do and where to go.

Almost no one listens.

After tragedies, the question is always asked "why did more people not get out". Usually the same answer comes back - they weren't listening.

View attachment 8998

Or perhaps, in a similar way:

View attachment 8997
I get it. But before the Bible books were written, or before Jesus was born, or in many far away lands people haven't heard at all.
 





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#47
I get it. But before the Bible books were written, or before Jesus was born, or in many far away lands people haven't heard at all.
If you take it as I do that these peoples will have descended from Noah, their sons and distributed to languages and tribes after Babel, they, in their distant cultural memory will have heard more about God than is popularly believed.

Don't trust me? Check out a little evidence...

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/t...g-and-archaeology-unveils-a-few-secrets.3145/

And from Native American history...


P.s. Chief Joseph Riverwind from the Lakota tribe also appears in this song which is a musical response to your question.

 





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Bacsi

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#48
If you take it as I do that these peoples will have descended from Noah, their sons and distributed to languages and tribes after Babel, they, in their distant cultural memory will have heard more about God than is popularly believed.

Don't trust me? Check out a little evidence...

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/t...g-and-archaeology-unveils-a-few-secrets.3145/

And from Native American

P.s. Chief Joseph Riverwind from the Lakota tribe also appears in this song which is a musical response to your question.
Biblical-centered. Being from Asia and not belonging to an Abrahamic tradition, I know the cradle of civilization is actually Aftica, not the mount of Ararat in Armenia/Turkey. There are many similarities of legends, myths and traditions among all people outside Africa, as their common roots are fairly recent on an overall historical scale. Being a speaker of Mandarin Chinese (Putonghua), it's funny how the characters are being interpreted. There's a graphical and phonetic history completely ignored. However, as Aesop's fables are nothing more than Greek translations of Panchatantra from India, the excerpts from Sumerian mythology presented in Bereshit, could have been adapted from more ancient China. Northern Americans are in fact Eurasians by origin.

Anyways, all of this doesn't in any way erase the fact that Jesus is not the only way simply because he hasn't been known to everyone in the long human history.
 





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#49
@Bacsi

"Being a speaker of Mandarin Chinese (Putonghua), it's funny how the characters are being interpreted. There's a graphical and phonetic history completely ignored."

Not being a Chinese speaker myself, I couldn't possibly comment here, other than to say that at least somenative Chinese speakers appear to hold different views to you ;-)

 





Bacsi

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#50
@Bacsi

"Being a speaker of Mandarin Chinese (Putonghua), it's funny how the characters are being interpreted. There's a graphical and phonetic history completely ignored."

Not being a Chinese speaker myself, I couldn't possibly comment here, other than to say that at least somenative Chinese speakers appear to hold different views to you ;-)
I know. Confirmation bias. Again, the mythology could move westward from China to Sumer, not the other way around.

All of the interesting history is besides the point. Jesus isn't and can't be the only way.
 





Bacsi

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#52
Christianity is on the decline, but this was prophesied. The western world is easy pickings for Islam because we've kept the good works of the Judeo-Christian values, but we've lost the spiritual and moral underpinning. So now, good works are whatever virtue signalling activity is in vogue, and morality is not based on any authority.

2 Timothy 3:​


1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.​

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,​

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,​

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;​

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.​
I agree with you fully about the diagnosis of the Western Christianity. Only superficial observance, but no true faith.
 





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#53
I agree with you fully as to the diagnosis of the Western Chrostianity. Only superficial observance, but no true faith.
Islam can be superficially practised without losing it's impact because it's just a lot of rules. The strength of Christianity, however, relies on faith in Jesus Christ. Take him away, and the substance is gone. Because Islam isn't based on Jesus Christ, it has nothing to lose.
 





Bacsi

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#54
Islam can be superficially practised without losing it's impact because it's just a lot of rules. The strength of Christianity, however, relies on faith in Jesus Christ. Take him away, and the substance is gone. Because Islam isn't based on Jesus Christ, it has nothing to lose.
I think Muslim's faith is deeper than a Christian's. Because a Christian will mix it with other ideologies, such as atheism or humanism. Islamic faith is very sincere from what I can judge
 





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#56
I think Muslim's faith is deeper than a Christian's. Because a Christian will mix it with other ideologies, such as atheism or humanism. Islamic faith is very sincere from what I can judge
Christianity can't be effectively practised without God, but Islam can.
 





Bacsi

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#57
Christianity can't be effectively practised without God, but Islam can.
I live among Muslims and Christians and have both religions among my family, friends, co-workers. To Christians, I see that their religion is like a hobby. They conform easily to external circumstances. To a Muslim, God is absolutely central and their religion goes to all aspects of life.
 





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#58
Christianity can't be effectively practised without God, but Islam can.
That tells me that you have not dealt with practicing Muslims in your life.
Practicing Muslims try to please God in intentions, in their heart and speech and other actions.
Hence we think in terms of will this please God or not. We are God centric not self centric ( We focus on what pleases Him not on how he make us feel).


Quran 4:103
Sahih International: And when you have completed the prayer, remember Allah standing, sitting, or [lying] on your sides. But when you become secure, re-establish [regular] prayer. Indeed, prayer has been decreed upon the believers a decree of specified times.

Quran 39:23
Allah has sent down the best statement: a consistent Book wherein is reiteration. The skins shiver therefrom of those who fear their Lord; then their skins and their hearts relax at the remembrance of Allah . That is the guidance of Allah by which He guides whom He wills. And one whom Allah leaves astray - for him there is no guide.

 





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#59
That tells me that you have not dealt with practicing Muslims in your life.
Practicing Muslims try to please God in intentions, in their heart and speech and other actions.
Hence we think in terms of will this please God or not. We are God centric not self centric ( We focus on what pleases Him not on how he make us feel).
I don't mean that Muslims aren't sincere. I'm sorry that I am not making myself clear.

A profound difference between Islam and Christianity, and this is kind of what I was referring to, but not explaining well, is how our respective faiths say we are saved.

Muslims are "saved" (I don't know if that's the right term, but I think you know what I mean) by works. You said that you focus on what pleases God. Christians do that, too. But it's not the basis of our salvation. It's the fruit of it.

Christians are saved by faith in Jesus Christ alone. Once his spirit is in us, we are enabled by his power to obey him and to do good works. There are no rules for us to follow. The only thing required from us for salvation is our belief in our own sinful state, and in Jesus Christ's atoning death for our sins, and from then on our growth depends on how willing we are to submit to God in our daily lives. We can't lose our salvation, we can only add to our rewards in the afterlife by being obedient to the Lord's voice now.

By contrast, Muslims don't receive God's spirit and aren't enabled by him for good works. You must do and say certain things at certain times to maintain your good standing with Allah. You have no assurance of salvation, and this is why Muslims may seem more fervent than Christians in the practice of their faith. For Muslims, obedience to the rules of Islam is a matter of eternal life or eternal death. If I have this wrong, please explain it to me so I understand.

For Christians, it is our joy and privilege to be of service to the Lord (and I know that there are Muslims who view their service to Allah in the same way), but it's not required of us. I don't mean that God doesn't want our obedience, just that we can be rebellious jerks and still be saved, because our salvation rests on what he did by dying for us, and not on what we do or don't do.

I hope all that is clear enough so that you know what I mean now.:)
 





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#60
Christians are saved by faith in Jesus Christ alone. Once his spirit is in us, we are enabled by his power to obey him and to do good works. There are no rules for us to follow. The only thing required from us for salvation is our belief in our own sinful state, and in Jesus Christ's atoning death for our sins, and from then on our growth depends on how willing we are to submit to God in our daily lives. We can't lose our salvation, we can only add to our rewards in the afterlife by being obedient to the Lord's voice now.

By contrast, Muslims don't receive God's spirit and aren't enabled by him for good works. You must do and say certain things at certain times to maintain your good standing with Allah. You have no assurance of salvation, and this is why Muslims may seem more fervent than Christians in the practice of their faith. For Muslims, obedience to the rules of Islam is a matter of eternal life or eternal death. If I have this wrong, please explain it to me so I understand.
This is incorrect but I am unable to have this conversation atm...........
Got you the info:

“…Be aware that none among you can attain Salvation only by virtue of his own deeds.”

The people asked him:
“O Allah’s Messenger, not even you?”


To which, the Prophet (SallAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) replied:

“Not even me, unless Allah encompasses me with His Mercy and Grace.”

It is known that the most righteous from humanity was Prophet Muhammad, SallAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam, yet we find that even he would only enter Paradise due to Allah’s Grace. This becomes even clearer in another Prophetic Saying (hadeeth) in which we are told of the man who did good deeds his entire life and then thinks he will enter into Paradise on this basis, without the Grace of Allah. Such a person—who is arrogant enough to think that his own deeds will earn him Paradise—will be thrown into Hell, because He disbelieved in Allah’s Grace.

Yet, this is not to diminish the importance of faith and works. Muslims believe that Allah Almighty grants His Grace and Mercy to those who have faith and who do good works. Allah Almighty says:

“And He (Allah) answers those who believe and do good works, and gives them more out of His Grace.”
(Quran 42:26)


Allah Almighty tells us that His Grace, Mercy, and Love are for those who “believe” and do “good works”:

“Upon those who believed and did good works shall The Most Gracious [Allah] bestow [His] Love.”
(Quran 19:96)


Muslims believe that Allah loves the good doers and that He hates the wicked. This is in contrast to what some Christians say, i.e. that God loves everyone, including the evil, the wicked, and the sinners. Yet, this idea is rejected even in the Bible:"
“God is angry with the wicked every day.” (Psalms 7:11)

“How oft is the candle of the wicked put out? And how often comes their destruction on them? God distributes sorrows [to the wicked] in His anger.” (Job 21:17)


please feel free to read further.
source: https://archive.siasat.com/news/components-faith-grace-allah-1219208/
 





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