Church Taken Out Pre-wrath

[rainerann]

I think a lot of confusion occurs over the idiom "The Day of the Lord".

I guess the question is - what is it? when does it begin? Is it a single day? If not, what?

The day of the lord just means the day that the Lord gets justice. This is finished when the beast is defeated by the rider according to revelation 19. The day of the lord is the day when the effects of the fall that break his heart are ended. This is why this DAY is important. I'm not yelling. Its just hard to use italics on a device to emphasize.

It is the day he is no longer heartbroken by sin because the beast is destroyed.

We can survive. People have survived every war for thousands of years. There is no reason why we can't survive this.

We live in a world with billions of people. Christianity is one of the largest religions in the world that ONLY requires accepting Jesus as savior and repenting of sin to be saved. If we counted this criteria, how many people would be raptured according to pretribulation theory? Millions... So many people, it is confusing to me that anyone doesn't question why the prophecy doesn't mention this resulting challenge. Millions of people gone because the criteria is so simple. He is so generous. Where doesn't the prophecy describe such an event. Such a drastic effect of millions of people gone. Think of how many jobs that would be empty. Just how devastating that loss would be. We have what we do in every part of the world through increased trade and communication because of the size of the present population. Everyone is important and plays an important role. Devastating, yet the prophecy does not mention this. Millions of jobs unfilled, but the prophecy says a beast will bring destruction, not the absence of millions of people no longer making clothes, growing food, doing any other essential job they presently do for the survival of us all.

People are important. Millions of people gone would be devastating. The prophecy mentions no devastation caused by the absence of millions of people. There is no verse that can be found to support a position that would require this based on an awareness of the population size in the year 2017.

There is no way to support such a position with scripture.

 

[Camidria]

You DO know that the bible says that "Your young ones, elderlies, men and women will have visions in these days (end times)"?

Sorry for replying this late in the conversation, yes I do know about that, but what do you mean? I haven't made up my mind about pre- or post tribulation, but I am confused. What do you think the dreams mean?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I found this overview interesting on the "Day of the Lord" question...

"Question: "What is the day of the Lord?"

Answer: The phrase “day of the Lord” usually identifies events that take place at the end of history (Isaiah 7:18-25) and is often closely associated with the phrase “that day.” One key to understanding these phrases is to note that they always identify a span of time during which God personally intervenes in history, directly or indirectly, to accomplish some specific aspect of His plan.

Most people associate the day of the Lord with a period of time or a special day that will occur when God’s will and purpose for His world and for mankind will be fulfilled.

1 - Some scholars believe that the day of the Lord will be a longer period of time than a single day—a period of time when Christ will reign throughout the world before He cleanses heaven and earth in preparation for the eternal state of all mankind.

2 - Other scholars believe the day of the Lord will be an instantaneous event when Christ returns to earth to redeem His faithful believers and send unbelievers to eternal damnation.

The phrase “the day of the Lord” is used nineteen times in the Old Testament (Isaiah 2:12; 13:6, 9; Ezekiel 13:5, 30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1,11,31; 3:14; Amos 5:18,20; Obadiah 15; Zephaniah 1:7,14; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi. 4:5) and five times in the New Testament (Acts 2:20; 1 Thessalonians 5:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:2; 2 Peter 3:10). It is also alluded to in other passages (Revelation 6:17; 16:14)."

https://www.gotquestions.org/day-of-the-Lord.html

 

[floss]

We live in a world with billions of people. Christianity is one of the largest religions in the world that ONLY requires accepting Jesus as savior and repenting of sin to be saved.

Rain, do you believe in repenting of sins to be save?

 

[UnderAlienControl]

 

[rainerann]

Rain, do you believe in repenting of sins to be save?

Yes, belief in Christ is repentance from sin. However, there is a difference between repentence and penance that requires follow up consequences or a time of purgatory. There is a difference between confessing sin and accepting the work of the cross as payment for sin and confessing sin and saying 20 hail Mary's in penance of your sin.

When we repent by believing in Christ, the spiritual consequences are paid through his death on the cross. This doesn't alleviate all consequences of sin, but the spiritual consequences are paid through Christ through repentance of sin.

So we repent, but we are saved by grace, because we are alleviated of spiritual consequences by the cross and will not have to experience purgatory when this life is over for them. However, grace does not replace confession and repentance of sin.

 

[rainerann]

The Pew Research Center confirms that Christianity is the world's largest religion with 31.2% of the population identifying as Christian. That is approximately 2.3 billion people that would be raptured. We still have the second highest rate of fertility of any religious group too.

I just don't see whereas scripture suggests such a massive change that this would create anywhere in the Bible.

If this many people were raptured, the economy would be decimated. I don't even see how the mark of the beast would be able to stabilize this.

It would create such a disruption to the creation and distribution of food. It would be equivilent to the effect of a hurricane that destroyed the US, along with several other countries. The population of America is 324,459,463. The present size of the church is approximately six times this number. Six USA's would basically be vacant. Where does scripture support this? The numbers just don't add up.

Not to mention that Revelation 9 says that a third of mankind die because of three plagues. A rapture and this prophecy is over half of the present population. There is just nothing to buy or sell at this point because you have lost major industries because of this.

You would basically have to expect people to be genetically modified so that they don't need to eat in order for this to work.

Additionally, Revelation 9 gives an approximate figure for how many people will be lost in the fulfillment of prophecy. Yet, there is never any mention of the absence of 31% of the population being removed as a result of rapture.

There is no other way to picture this type of thing happening differently than someone like Hagee suggests. Just cars piling up on the freeways and such. There is no other way to picture this and the Bible never mentions something to this effect one time. It is a completely made up extrabiblical narrative.

 

[mecca]

It's just what man does. He divides more than he unites. Even when he is united, he is divided from some group. Tribes and such. It's just in his nature.

I don't think that's human nature, people can make the choice to truly unite, it's just more difficult so they don't do it.