That's not what Chuck Missler teaches.I Agree with you here Scott, I have had dreams that I will experience the tribulation and so has my husband. I haven't truly gone into these prophecies in the Bible like all the others have, but I definitely want to learn!
It's tough to prove based on scripture who the elect are in that passage. Paul refers to the Church as the elect, but Israel is referred to as "mine elect" by God several times in Isaiah. When Christ spoke of "the elect", it would have been assumed that he was speaking of Israel, but I guess the meaning depends on how you interpret other prophecy. I think the elect referred to is Israel, but I can't prove it at the moment.Hey Thunderian,
I believe the elect is signified in the scriptures as Christians who are truly taking up their cross and following the Lord. The truth is I never did much study on the term "elect."
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.The verse you mentioned never indicated both were born again. So one taken, the other left can be the Christian is taken and the unbeliever left.
Also, as in the days of Noah, the sinners were eating and drinking and had no clue but this wasn't true about Noah and his family.
Just like 1 Thessalonians 5:1-4. The Christians are not in darkness. The verse you posted alludes to the sinners being clueless, not the righteous.
Yeah. I agree with some of the things you are saying but I don't take these verses literally.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Seems to me like it's post-tribbers who have the trouble with it. They assume it's the seventh trumpet of Revelation when there is no need to.This verse is difficult for pre-tribbers
1 Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
I don't see the Church on that timeline. Other than that, I don't have a problem with the timeline as posted.In all honesty I don't desire debate. I was hoping you would put up a timeline like I did to demonstrate how the Daniel days coincide with the end times. This timeline I provided is easy to read and understand. I have never seen one with pre-trib demonstrated so easily and painlessly. If you have a good timeline I would love to see it. Or if you can explain the endtimes that coincide with Daniels days i would appreciate it.
Lol!! I'm still learning on that, I've not fully made up my mindThat's not what Chuck Missler teaches.
Tsk, tsk.
Isn't the whole period before Jesus coming and God's wrath the great tribulation? You just have 3 1/2 years but in that time a whole lot of lawlessness is happening and woudon't that be known as the tribulation too?
Check out this timeline. It demonstrates the time between the second coming and the wrath falling as 45 days (the wrath will fall for 45 days). I believe during this 45 days Jesus will appear in the heavens coming on clouds in great glory. The church will be taken up as soon as Christ appears on the clouds (1 day of 45 days). So the wicked earth and in the inhabitants thereof will suffer wrath on earth as Jesus approaches over a 45 day period. Don't believe it will take 45 days?
Matthew 24:29-31
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Notice. Before Jesus appears on the clouds there is no more light on the earth (Sun darkened, moon shall not give her light, stars shall fall).
When Jesus shall appear on the clouds his coming will light up the entire earth (with power and great glory)! And for 45 days Jesus coming will continue to light up the earth until he comes back in judgment.
I have to go to work, but I'll get back to you on this tomorrow. I am interested in your website-what is it?Hi Lisa,
No pre-wrath is not pre-tribulation. The seven seals and the seven trumpets are the tribulation. The 7 bowls or vials are his wrath. What makes this chart interesting it it aligns the Daniel days really well. I have yet to find a chart that does this besides this one.
I think the writer of this timeline believed the same ten kings who will agree to give the Beast their power for one hour are in league with him (that's why they are part of the covenant).
Revelation 17:12-14
And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
You see these ten kings aligned with the beast will also make war against the lamb. This makes the argument they are in league together under a covenant.
Regarding the 144,000 I have a teaching on my website if you are interested. Way too long to post here.
I don't think you understood what I said. The first 3 1/2 years is part of the tribulation-right? Because, that's when the seals are opened? Edit: just opened up your website...I think you answer this.Hi Lisa,
No pre-wrath is not pre-tribulation. The seven seals and the seven trumpets are the tribulation. The 7 bowls or vials are his wrath. What makes this chart interesting it it aligns the Daniel days really well. I have yet to find a chart that does this besides this one.
I think the writer of this timeline believed the same ten kings who will agree to give the Beast their power for one hour are in league with him (that's why they are part of the covenant).
Revelation 17:12-14
And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
You see these ten kings aligned with the beast will also make war against the lamb. This makes the argument they are in league together under a covenant.
Regarding the 144,000 I have a teaching on my website if you are interested. Way too long to post here.
Would you be willing to expound on that a little? I understand you don't want to debate, so I won't press, but I am curious how Daniel proves the pre-wrath view.But interestingly enough, because the Daniel days speak about the Church and closure, it by default proves the pre-wrath rapture.
I don't believe in different churches, either.Daniel 12:12 says. Blessed is he who waits and comes to 1335. (Sorry for bad translation I am typing everything).
This is the church who endures tribulation. I don't believe in different churches. I believe in a clear interpretation of the scriptures.
The Church
The firstfruits (144,000)
The remnant (Israel who needs to see to believe)
If I may, where does the resurrection of Revelation 20 occur in your timeline?All of these who wait will be blessed. Including those martyred under the alter whom God tells to rest/wait (Revelation 6:11).
So the Daniel days equate to the 7 year timeline as per my OP (opening post). Those who wait clear throughout the entire tribulation will be blessed. This is the church.
OK, and then what happens?If you read Revelation 19 an army in fine linen comes with Christ. This is them, those beheaded during tribulation. They will reign with Christ 1000 years. This is explained right after chapter 19 is culminated.
And before you say, but, but what about the dragon in Revelation 20:2,3 ? Doesn't Christ come back to conquer him. If those resurrected in the previous chapter (19) comeback with him, then you're saying their resurrection predates Satan being bound. But according to my understanding, Revelation 20:2,3 comes before Revelation 20:4-6. So you're not making sense.
You don't understand the book of Revelation. And that's why it doesn't make sense to you.
What happens in Revelation 19 through 20:1-3 is then clarified in Revelation 20:4-6.
It's almost like Christ is saying, "I will return with this awesome army clothed in white linen. The dragon, antichrist and false prophet will be judged. Satan will then be bound. Oh, and that awesome army that returned with me... these are those guys (Revelation 20:4-6).
You obviously got this idea from somewhere. If not your studies, then where?I will either be reigning with Christ 1000 years
If you read Revelation 19 an army in fine linen comes with Christ. This is them, those beheaded during tribulation. They will reign with Christ 1000 years. This is explained right after chapter 19 is culminated.
I will either be reigning with Christ 1000 years or I'll be in hell.
Who are you reigning over in the Millennium?
After that, am I supposed to take you seriously?This question has nothing to do with my thread.