Christianity is NOT (just) the "White Man's Religion"!

[Bacsi]

Well. Thread was derailed. No poster from Christian perspective even tried to be honest and admit at least partial responsibility for the repulsion some oppressed people feel against the religion...

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

The Torah, written and compiled by numerous authors over a long time, is a collection of the older religions of the region with western-semitic traditions. It's a great soirce with interesting wealth of information. However, there are other interesting historical and religious sources from all over the globe.

I still think you would find the Exodus info I posted up an eye-opener.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Well. Thread was derailed. No poster from Christian perspective even tried to be honest and admit at least partial responsibility for the repulsion some oppressed people feel against the religion...

On the contrary, a good many Christians are rude, hypocritical, selfish, worldly and filled with pride. In short, they are bad ambassadors for the Gospel.

If I was an ambassador for England to your central Asian homeland, and while I was there I spent most of my time in bars, getting into fights and visiting strip clubs, you might conclude that England would be full of people of low moral fibre, and the notion of "Englishness" somehow endorsed my behaviour.

This line of logic would be unsound, but the people who had met few actual Englishmen might be entirely forgiven for following it.

 

[Bacsi]

On the contrary, a good many Christians are rude, hypocritical, selfish, worldly and filled with pride. In short, they are bad ambassadors for the Gospel.

If I was an ambassador for England to your central Asian homeland, and while I was there I spent most of my time in bars, getting into fights and visiting strip clubs, you might conclude that England would be full of people of low moral fibre, and the notion of "Englishness" somehow endorsed my behaviour.

This line of logic would be unsound, but the people who had met few actual Englishmen might be entirely forgiven for following it.

I understand your point very well. And that's the problem. People not walking the talk. Though I was just talking about this thread and posts here. I'm tired of arguing about faith, which is an exercise in futility.

The majority of Christians aren't willing to be honest. That way they're pushing those deeply upset or offended by the injustices of life they endured into the arms of Islam, atheism, etc.

It's a very practical topic, I think, and so to take it to the thick woods of theoretical theology is a shame. Jesus said, show love in action to your neighbours like that proverbial good Samaritan. It's a very simple command, easy to understand and fulfill. I wish the young and smart man in the video was doing just that by saying smth like, "Hey dear viewers of African, native or other non-European descent, you have all the right to be angry and upset at Christianity for condoning or endorsing injustice and cruelty, but let's forgive each other and start from square one based on equality and mutual love, because the shameful history isn't what Jesus's teaching at all". It would have been a great, powerful message that could really make a difference. Amor vincit omnia. Instead, he chose to deny the aching issue and not address it. Not good.

 

[Bacsi]

I'd like to say one thing which is not directly on topic, but still related to it. I've seen Christian missionaries in Kazakhstan, and also Muslim missionaries, and people spreading other faiths. You know, Christian missionaries where less successful than most others, even though people after the fall of the iron curtain were extremely hungry for spiritual knowledge and coming from areligious atheistic background, equally open to all ideas. People flocked to Christians en masse, but then were seriously turned off.

Christian missionaries were from the USA mostly, but also from Canada, western Europe or South Korea. The absolute majority of them turned out to be fake... There were a few golden people among them, the real deal, but they were in my estimation 1% of them all... And the rest were a lowly, despicable folks. I was an interpreter and I've seen all this stuff first-hand. Having a sincere and open disposition to those missionaries as a college student, I was greatly disillusioned. They were the scum of the earth. They only came to make money and to indulge in the worst of sins possible. They hated and despised the locals. They abused the trust and adoration of the locals to them as "super humans" because of money, flashy Western lifestyle and the coveted native English language.

Anyways, it's a sad sad thing. Christian missionaries are the worst ambassadors ever. Again, all except a smallest tiny minority. Instead of brining people to Christ, they strongly pushed them away and created this very persistent image of Christianity to be an immoral, cruel religion of "the white men" so to speak - a vehicle of oppression, robbery of resources, political gain and simply deception.

Other missionaries, especially Muslim ones, were a striking contrast. I didn't meet even one who wasn't utmost dedicated to what they were doing. Whereas Christian missionaries concentrated their efforts in two large Westernized cities with international airports, huge shopping malls and lucrative real estate business opportunities and stayed there, the Muslims went into all of the country, including the poorest and most remote areas. Christian missionaries loved to live like kings, in big houses filled with stuff from the USA, with cooks and servants, segregating in their own island of their home country. While Muslims lived same way as the locals, learned the language and customs. They were accessible and understanding. They were loving and charitable. Christian missionaries were self-centered, greedy and arrogant. Muslims always sent their kids to regular local schools, no exceptions. Christians opened lavish English-language "International Schools" funded by churches abroad specifically to separate their children and to allow them to enter best colleges in the West.

Christian missionaries insisted on creating a mode of worship mirroring their own traditions from their foreign lands, whereas Muslims adapted best they could to the local way of things. Christian missionaries were superficial in their faith, as phony as one can be. Con artists of unimaginable magnitude. Muslims were deeply sincere and very strong, uncompromising in their faith, convinced to the core and therefore convincing.

Is it a surprise that Kazakhstan today is a de-facto Muslim country, and Christianity is a sad tiny blip on the picture?

People judge by deeds, not words. You can't say "look at the message, and not the messengers". To people, the messengers are the message. You can't say "accept religion only by whether it's true or not" all the while doing all sorts of nasty things. It's like a doctor saying, "accept my medicine because it really works" while being surrounded by corpses. People will surely go to the doctor who has happy healthy patients leaving their clinic.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I'd like to say one thing which is not directly on topic, but still related to it. I've seen Christian missionaries in Kazakhstan, and also Muslim missionaries, and people spreading other faiths. You know, Christian missionaries where less successful than most others, even though people after the fall of the iron curtain were extremely hungry for spiritual knowledge and coming from areligious atheistic background, equally open to all ideas. People flocked to Christians en masse, but then were seriously turned off.

The Christian missionaries were from the USA mostly, but also from Canada, western Europe or South Korea. The absolute majority of them turned out to be fake... There were a few golden people, the real deal, but they were in my estimation 1% of them all... And the rest were a lowly, despicable folks. I'm truthful. I was an interpreter and I've seen all this stuff first-hand. Having a sincere and open disposition to those missionaries as a college student, I was greatly disillusioned. They were the scum of the earth. They only came to make money and to indulge in the worst of sins possible. No exaggeration. They truly hated and despised the locals. They abused the trust and adoration of the locals to them as "super humans" because of money, flashy Western lifestyle and the coveted native English language.

Anyways, it's a sad sad thing. Christian missionaries are the worst ambassadors ever. Again, all except a smallest tiny minority. Instead of brining people to Christ, they strongly pushed them away and created this very persistent image of Christianity to be an immoral, cruel religion of "the white men" so to speak - a vehicle of oppression, robbery of resources, political gain and simply deception.

Other missionaries, especially Muslim ones, were a striking contrast. I didn't meet even one who wasn't utmost dedicated to what they were doing. Whereas Christian missionaries concentrated their efforts in two large Westernized cities with international airports, huge shopping malls and lucrative real estate business opportunities and stayed there, the Muslims went into all of the country, including the poorest and most remote areas. Christian missionaries loved to live like kings, in big houses filled with stuff from the USA, with cooks and servants, segregating in their own island of their home country. While Muslims lived same way as the locals, learned the language and customs. They were accessible and understanding. They were loving and charitable. Christian missionaries were self-centered, greedy and arrogant.

Christian missionaries insisted on creating a mode of worship mirroring their own traditions from their foreign lands, whereas Muslims adapted best they could to the local way of things. Christian missionaries were superficial in their faith, as phony as one can be. Con artists of unimaginable magnitude. Muslims were deeply sincere and very strong, uncompromising in their faith, convinced to the core and therefore convincing.

Is it a surprise that Kazakhstan today is a de-facto Muslim country, and Christianity is a sad tiny blip on the picture?

People judge by deeds, not words. You can't say "look at the message, and not the messengers". To people, the messengers are the message. You can't say "accept religion only by whether it's true or not" all the while doing all sorts of nasty things. It's like a doctor saying, "accept my medicine because it really works" while being surrounded by corpses. People will surely go to the doctor who has happy healthy patients leaving their clinic.

Revelation 3, and I completely agree with you...

The Lukewarm Church
14 “And to the [i]angel of the church [j]of the Laodiceans write,

‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither [k]cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; andwhite garments, that you may be clothed, thatthe shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten.[l] Therefore be [m]zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

22 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’ ”

 

[Bacsi]

Revelation 3, and I completely agree with you...

The Lukewarm Church
14 “And to the [i]angel of the church [j]of the Laodiceans write,

‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither [k]cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; andwhite garments, that you may be clothed, thatthe shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten.[l] Therefore be [m]zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

22 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’ ”

How long are you going to write things off to Revelation? It's an easy way out. Every generation keeps repeating, "it's the last days". Not coming true. The times just go on and on.

Instead of hiding behind prophecies like ostriches burring their heads in the sand, I think it's best to admit problems, understand what's causing them and try to rectify them.

"It's been prophecied, it's the human sinful nature, it's the actions of some but not all" - are nothing but lame excuses for moral laziness.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

How long are you going to write things off to Revelation? It's an easy way out. Every generation keeps repeating, "it's the last days". Not coming true. The times just go on and on.

Instead of hiding behind prophecies like ostriches burring their heads in the sand, I think it's best to admit problems, understand what's causing them and try to rectify them.

"It's been prophecied, it's the human sinful nature, it's actions of some but not all" - are nothing but lame excuses for moral laziness.

I can make a difference to how I live by my choices, but not yours. It's like the old saying about bitterness - drinking poison and expecting your enemy to die! It saddens me that so many Christians today fit the template of the Lukewarm Laodoceans.

Given that state of affairs, it makes me want to be red hot rather than tepid, and to do what I can to encourage others and share the love of my Lord. God bless you Bacsi.

 

[Bacsi]

it makes me want to be red hot rather than tepid, and to do what I can to encourage others and share the love of my Lord

Words again? After that, you'll go back to your daily routine of not doing much? I think I know why Christianity as a whole came to this state we observe today. I don't think Christians see it. I've been to all kinds of churches in many countries on 5 continents (including the UK), and they really "don't get it". Only a very handful do. It's a sort of willing blindness.

 

[Bacsi]

I was in London, UK recently on a business trip. I visited several Anglican cathedrals, had interesting conversations with parishioners and ministers, a bishop in one case. I was also once in a Baptist church. One day I visited a church where an arts exhibition was held and observed how a security guard rudely and violently drove away homeless people. He was a little too energetic even for his job. I sat down and talked to one of the homeless men, who walked farther away and started begging near a busy main street. Not a penny was dropped into his cup in about two hours that I spent chatting with him. He turned out to be a very nice and talented man same age as me, though looking twenty years older. He was also of the same profession as me. He knew more that I do on a variety of subjects. I was stunned. He was also kind and compassionate of me and generally about all people and the world. I was deeply touched. The main reason I stroke a conversation with him was, initially I saw his bad health condition. Effects of addiction, spending nights in the cold, etc. were quite visible. Yes, he's fallen, but still a beautiful human being. Very special. The church sees him as no one. The passers by, probably visiting the church on occasion and having a Bible on their shelves collecting dust and so eloquent about the superiority and truthfullness of the traditional Christian ways, were walking by in their £1000 suits sporting £3000 Rolex watches looking the other way.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Words again? After that, you'll go back to your daily routine of not doing much? I think I know why Christianity as a whole came to this state we observe today. I don't think Christians see it. I've been to all kinds of churches in many countries on 5 continents (including the UK), and they really "don't get it". Only a very handful do. It's a sort of willing blindness.

I can understand your anger at rudeness and spiritual hypocrisy, but you must appreciate that my actions are necessarily absent from forum communications which are, of course, mere words.

 

[Bacsi]

I can understand your anger at rudeness and spiritual hypocrisy, but you must appreciate that my actions are necessarily absent from forum communications which are, of course, mere words.

Even words can represent different mindsets and background actions. I don't demand anything from you. It's between you and God. Thank you for listening and continuously blessing me. Good heart. Same to you. May you be blessed abundantly.