Christian Zionism Discussed

[Occultfartmachine]

I'm talking to someone very special aren't I?

 

[TokiEl]

I'm talking to someone very special aren't I?

We are all special.

And that's a truth.

 

[A Freeman]

Christian Zionism for Dummies
https://hannahmichaels.wordpress.com/2019/06/08/christian-zionism-for-dummies/

 

[Tidal]

We are all special. And that's a truth.

The ones who get out of the mindless herd are more special than those who don't..

"What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?..Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord, I will be a Father to you, and you shall be my sons and daughters" (2 Cor 6:14-18 )

 

[Tidal]

if you are a Christian you should know that they are God’s chosen people and know that God gave them the land forever.

Er...dunno if you noticed but the Jews killed his son, so if they think he'll cut them some slack on judgement day, they've got another think coming; they're going up the spout along with all other Jesus-rejecters..

"How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot....it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Hebrews 10:29-31)

 

[Tidal]

I'd have to Google that. I don't get involved with the Christianity thing, they can't seem to agree on anything (on this forum anyway). More circular debates than I care for.

That's because they forget what Jesus said- "You have one teacher, me" (Matt 23:10)
so they like to put their own interpretations on things to pretend they know more than the rest of us poor slobs, it's a vanity thing..
That's why Paul had to remind them-
"I'm worried lest you be led astray from the simplicity of Christ" (2 Cor 11:3)

 

[Awoken2]

That's because they forget what Jesus said- "You have one teacher, me" (Matt 23:10)
so they like to put their own interpretations on things to pretend they know more than the rest of us poor slobs, it's a vanity thing..
That's why Paul had to remind them-
"I'm worried lest you be led astray from the simplicity of Christ" (2 Cor 11:3)

Nobody knows what Jesus said, end of.

There are many books saying many different things, you are just quoting me from the book you enjoyed the most. They can't all be true because one book contradicts the other but all books claim to be true.

In instances such as this I'll pay no heed to any of them.....but you crack on mate, telling everybody how your book is THE book.....that's cool.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Nobody knows what Jesus said, end of.

There are many books saying many different things, you are just quoting me from the book you enjoyed the most. They can't all be true because one book contradicts the other but all books claim to be true.

In instances such as this I'll pay no heed to any of them.....but you crack on mate, telling everybody how your book is THE book.....that's cool.

Bold claims @Awoken2 ;-)

Historical Evidence

Historical Evidence

reasonsforjesus.com

 

[Awoken2]

Bold claims @Awoken2 ;-)

Historical Evidence

Historical Evidence

reasonsforjesus.com

I'm not a big James Bishop fan to be honest Red, what else has he done? Is he a legit geezer first and foremost?

 

[Awoken2]

I'm worried lest you be led astray from the simplicity of Christ" (2 Cor 11:3)

Well this is open to interpretation straight away.... does this mean the Christ thing is just for simpletons? You just don't know do you really?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I'm not a big James Bishop fan to be honest Red, what else has he done? Is he a legit geezer first and foremost?

As for James Bishop himself, I couldn’t possibly comment as I don’t know him.

I leave it to you to judge whether the actual information is worthwhile. I commend you for your scepticism though - if I were presented by a Jehovah’s Witness sharing apparently compelling information, I would regard it as a Trojan horse!

 

[Douglas Summers]

This is utterly depressing but people have come to find that if Christians are allowed to talk directly and see the suffering of the Palestinians, they tend to change their minds.

Countering Christian Zionism in the Age of Trump – LobeLog

lobelog.com

“Christian Zionism is so prevalent in the US that any work by Christians on Palestinian rights has to confront it,” he said. Brenneman believes that education is the best strategy to reach Christian Zionists.

“Christian Zionism is an extremist ideology, but it’s also incredibly broadly held and is part of a larger Christian package of belief,” he said. “Most people who hold it don’t realize they’re holding really hateful beliefs; it’s very much based on ignorance and insularity.” Brenneman adds that such beliefs are rarely challenged, particularly because the mainstream media plays into them by emphasizing, among other tropes, the idea that Israel is always in grave danger from the Palestinians or surrounding Arab states. The result: When Christian Zionists learn of Israel’s brutal treatment of the Palestinians, their belief system is vulnerable to disruption.

Brenneman says the best route to education is for Christian Zionists to tour Palestine-Israel and hear from Palestinian Christians and Jews who challenge the dominant narrative. Groups such as Telos and Churches for Middle East Peace (CMEP) run tours that aim to trouble this narrative through meetings with a variety of Israelis and Palestinians; in both cases, groups meet with people ranging from Jewish settlers to business leaders to Palestinian activists.

Executive Director of CMEP Mae Elise Cannon also believes that education is the key to changing mindsets and that Christians are generally open to such change. While CMEP does not necessarily oppose Christian Zionist beliefs—the group is composed of nearly 30 church-based organizations with diverse theological framings, including evangelicalism—it works to counter the beliefs’ negative repercussions through the tours as well as speaking engagements in US churches and government advocacy.

“The vast majority of people in the American church want to honor God and are pursuing the goodness of the world,” Cannon told me. “They are open to their mind being changed, but their underlying concern is they think if they shift their political perspective, they won’t be faithful to theology.” Cannon says using the example of Israeli settlements is productive in this regard. “It’s straightforward to show people that they are not following the basic Christian tenet of ‘love thy neighbor’ if they are supporting those who build a settlement on Palestinian farmland that’s been in that family for decades or a century,” she said. “The current realities speak for themselves. We show them that they can honor God while advocating for Palestinian rights, too.”

Friends of Sabeel North America (FOSNA), a Christian organization seeking justice and peace in Palestine through advocacy and education, focuses on ensuring that Palestinian narratives are heard by American churches. Tarek Abuata, FOSNA’s executive director, stresses that Christian Zionist beliefs aren’t solely held by those who identify explicitly with Christian Zionism but are found throughout mainstream American churches.

Meet the Group Trying to Change Evangelical Minds About Israel

Telos keeps a low profile, but its ambitions are biblical in proportion.

www.politico.com

https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/143924/philos-projects-christian-birthright-accused-of-snubbing-prophetic-return-of-jews-to-judea-samaria/
"Both Jewish and Christian critics of a popular program that brings Christian college students to Israel accuse the program of presenting their participants with an unbalanced view of the region, focusing on the Palestinian narrative at the expense of the prophetic return of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel. "

^^I couldn't believe it when i read it.

Inside the evangelical money flowing into the West Bank

***

www.haaretz.com

While you discuss false teachings and opinions. The warnings of God are going happen just as He said it would....But you are blind to it and it will catch you unawares. I'm not being hostile, just warning you.

 

[Lisa]

There's been an update though (2nd Convenant) : Christ happened. God chosen people is now the whole Church, where racial/ethnic considerations are irrelevant.

Galatians 3:28
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

Romans 2:29
"No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God."​

That being said, (religious) Jews are more than welcome in the body of Christ once they accept Christ as their Lord and Savior (they will be The 144,000, eventually turning to Christ during the Apocalypse).
The only Jerusalem we should look up to is the Heavenly Jerusalem that Christ will lend to His people - everything else is pure fleshly deception. (Political & racial) Zionism is satanic.

Romans‬ ‭11:1-36‬ ‭‬‬​

“I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? “Lord, THEY HAVE KILLED Y OUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE.” But what is the divine response to him? “I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.” In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. What then?

What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened; just as it is written, “GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, E YES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT, D OWN TO THIS VERY DAY.” And David says, “LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP, AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM. LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT, AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER.” I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous. Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment be! But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them.

For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too. But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, “THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB.” “THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS.” From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all. Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR? Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO H IM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN? For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.”
‭https://www.bible.com/100/rom.11.1-36.nasb

 

[Tidal]

Nobody knows what Jesus said, end of.
There are many books saying many different things..

JC and his mates went on the road gigging all over Israel for 3 long years, that's a lot of eyewitnesses..

Jesus said- “I have spoken openly to the world, I said nothing in secret." (John 18:20)
"Jesus went through all the towns and villages" (Matt 9:35)

 

[Lisa]

Er...dunno if you noticed but the Jews killed his son, so if they think he'll cut them some slack on judgement day, they've got another think coming; they're going up the spout along with all other Jesus-rejecters..

"How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot....it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Hebrews 10:29-31)

You‘re clueless...

Romans‬ ‭11:1‬ ‭
I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
‭https://www.bible.com/100/rom.11.1.nasb

 

[Awoken2]

Despite you utilizing your bestest jedi mind trick of trying to convince my subconscious that if it's written in blue it's gotta be true I won't be changing my opinion on the matter. You can throw as many colourful quotes and crazy memes at me as you like....they just bounce off me.

Wasteth no memage on persons whom still thinketh for themselveth (Awoken 20:38)

 

[Awoken2]

As for James Bishop himself, I couldn’t possibly comment as I don’t know him.

Well he appears to be making some pretty bold claims himself.

He's trying to get people focused on some chap that lived 2000 years ago and somehow rationalize that by believing his story you get to live an eternal life of bliss with the big G when we die....meanwhile we have a bunch of psychotic Zionists carrying on with their plan of being responsible for the special effects of JC's 2nd coming fireworks party.

We can't change Jack shit about the past...only our future.

 

[Tidal]

You‘re clueless...
Romans‬ ‭11:1‬ ‭
I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Think outside the box Your Majesty..
Sure, God hasn't rejected the Jews or anybody else unless they've rejected Jesus, so if the Jews admit their mistake and become Christians, there ain't no way hozay that they're gonna be allowed through the pearlies.
Jesus said:- "Whoever rejects me rejects God" (Luke 10:16)

It's not rocket science, logic it out, that great gated community in the sky is a CHRISTIANS ONLY zone, so if Jesus-rejecters have the gall to turn up there Pete the bouncer will tell 'em straight-

"On yer bikes!"

 

[Lisa]

Think outside the box Your Majesty..
Sure, God hasn't rejected the Jews or anybody else unless they've rejected him, so if the Jews admit their mistake and become Christians, there ain't no way hozay that they're gonna be allowed through the pearlies.
Logic it out, that great gated community in the sky is a CHRISTIANS ONLY zone, so if Jesus-rejecters have the gall to turn up there Pete the bouncer will tell 'em straight-

"On yer bikes!"

Still clueless...Read all of Romans 11. Also, you’re not nearly as cool as you think you are

 

[Awoken2]

Ohhhh ffs here we go, a holier than thou off between Lisafer and Tidalmeme.

Awesome!