Christian Zionism Discussed

[elsbet]

So what's all this it rained for 40 days and 40 nights business then? If the water came up it didn't come down.

It came down, as well.

... after seven days the floodwaters came upon the earth. In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, on the seventeenth day of the second month, all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened. And the rain fell upon the earth forty days and forty nights.​

GEN 7:10-12​

No doubt there have been cataclysmic geological events before but linking it all to God takes one hell of a lot of blind faith. Just because it's written in a Bible it doesn't make it true does it?

Good news-- the Pagans recorded it too, along with numerous other ancient cultures, many of which were also Pagan-- so its okay for you to believe it happened.

 

[bible_student]

Them Which Say They Are Jews But Are NOT

 

[Thunderian]

@bible_student, the Jews knew that the descendants of Ashkenaz moved to Europe, which is why they defined themselves as Ashkenazi. I can't take you seriously if you can't accept this fact.

As for DNA, it's possible to trace the movements of a people from one part of the earth to another by studying their DNA. There have been many studies done on Ashkenazi Jewish DNA, and all of the studies confirm that the Ashkenazi Jews moved from the Middle East, northward, before finally settling in Germany and France.

 

[Thunderian]

No, they are not. Most (the majority) of Israel is not Jewish and never were Jewish, if you read the Bible.

Please provide the scripture you use to make this case, and I'll be happy to explain how you're misunderstanding it.

 

[bible_student]

@bible_student, the Jews knew that the descendants of Ashkenaz moved to Europe, which is why they defined themselves as Ashkenazi.

Again, that is something that Jews (from Judah) would absolutely NEVER have done, under any circumstance. Ashkenaz means Japhethite, as it says in the Torah, in Genesis, which is the first Book. Therefore, calling themslelves Ashkenazi Jews is therefore calling and identifying themselves and all of their posterity, permanently, as being Japhethite (Ashkenazi - Gentile) Jews.

I can't take you seriously if you can't accept this fact.

Ashkenazi means Japhethite, who are Gentiles. That is what you need to accept, because it is true.

As for DNA, it's possible to trace the movements of a people from one part of the earth to another by studying their DNA.

How? They don't have any original Israelite DNA to compare with. It's a total red herring.

There have been many studies done on Ashkenazi Jewish DNA, and all of the studies confirm that the Ashkenazi Jews moved from the Middle East, northward, before finally settling in Germany and France.

How? They have nothing (no original sample) to compare it with. It's completely based on assumptions, so in other words, it's bogus.

Moses and the Israelites left Egypt, where Israel had been dwelling for 430 years (Ex. 12:40). But they didn't decide to call themselves "Egyptian Israelites" because of it, or "Goshen Israelites". (Israelites don't do that.)

The Ashkenazi Jews called themselves Ashkenazi Jews, because that is what they were. They were Ashkenazis (Gentiles descended from Japheth) who converted to Judaism. So, they should have been proud of the fact that they are Gentile converts to Judaism, instead of trying to claim being something they are not.

 

[bible_student]

Please provide the scripture you use to make this case, and I'll be happy to explain how you're misunderstanding it.

Read the bible and about the two kingdoms of Israel (10) and Judah (2) - i.e.10:2 (ratio)

10 Tribes - Northern Kingdom of Israel
2 Tribes - Southern Kingdom of Judah (Jew-dah)

To get you started:

Genesis
48:13 And Joseph took them both, Ephraim in his right hand toward Israel's left hand, and Manasseh in his left hand toward Israel's right hand, and brought [them] near unto him.
48:14 And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid [it] upon Ephraim's head, who [was] the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh [was] the firstborn.
48:15 And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before Whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
48:16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name [Israel] be named on them (let Ephraim and Manasseh be called Israel), and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

Ephraim and Manasseh were never Jews and are still not Jews today (because they are not Judah, they are Ephraim and Manasseh) They only were named Israel.

Not Judah/Jew-dah.

 

[elsbet]

So are we to understand that the “Synagogue of Satan” Jews of Nazi Germany had engineered a close scrape with ethnic extinction in order to strong arm the U.N. into giving them the land of Israel?

DUH.

EDIT

 

[Thunderian]

Again, that is something that Jews (from Judah) would absolutely NEVER have done, under any circumstance. Ashkenaz means Japhethite, as it says in the Torah, in Genesis, which is the first Book. Therefore, calling themslelves Ashkenazi Jews is therefore calling and identifying themselves and all of their posterity, permanently, as being Japhethite (Ashkenazi - Gentile) Jews.

Again, they take the name because of the area they emigrated to, not because of who they descended from. Jews who emigrated to Spain call themselves Sephardic Jews, because Sepharad is their name for the Iberian peninsula, where Spain is. Maghrebi Jews are Jews that ended up in the Maghreb region of North Africa. Mizrahi Jews are Jews who went east during the diaspora (Mizraḥ is the Hebrew term for "the East"). If you are still having trouble with the concept, there's nothing more I can do.

How? They don't have any original Israelite DNA to compare with. It's a total red herring.

I don't have the patience to explain how DNA science works. Work on understanding what an Ashkenazi Jew is.

 

[Thunderian]

Read the bible and about the two kingdoms of Israel (10) and Judah (2) - i.e.10:2 (ratio)

10 Tribes - Northern Kingdom of Israel
2 Tribes - Southern Kingdom of Judah (Jew-dah)

To get you started:

Genesis
48:13 And Joseph took them both, Ephraim in his right hand toward Israel's left hand, and Manasseh in his left hand toward Israel's right hand, and brought [them] near unto him.
48:14 And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid [it] upon Ephraim's head, who [was] the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh [was] the firstborn.
48:15 And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before Whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
48:16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name [Israel] be named on them (let Ephraim and Manasseh be called Israel), and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

Ephraim and Manasseh were never Jews and are still not Jews today (because they are not Judah, they are Ephraim and Manasseh) They only were named Israel.

Not Judah/Jew-dah.

So the only real Jews are from the tribe of Judah?

 

[Awoken2]

So are we to understand that the “Synagogue of Satan” Jews of Nazi Germany had engineered a close scrape with ethnic extinction in order to strong arm the U.N. into giving them the land of Israel?

Perhaps their ethnic extinction was due to their own nefarious plans to bring along their very own end times?.....Have you considered that angle?

.....and don't you mean giving them the land of Palestine, for this temple they have to build? As instructed in their doctrine.

C'mon, this ain't rocket science is it?

 

[Thunderian]

.....and don't you mean giving them the land of Palestine, for this temple they have to build? As instructed in their doctrine.

Why do you suppose they haven't rebuilt their temple yet? The Jews have had control of the Temple Mount for 50 years. What do you think the holdup is?

 

[Awoken2]

Why do you suppose they haven't rebuilt their temple yet? The Jews have had control of the Temple Mount for 50 years. What do you think the holdup is?

Well I would imagine the Temple would get raised to the ground by any concerned party in the ME who were well aware of the chaos that would ensue after it was built. But that's a work in progress (see USA foreign policy)

Now you can call it what you like (second coming, tribulation, rapture.... whatever) but what it means is large numbers of innocent people are going to die.....and that's not good is it?

It's fine for the likes of you, Red, TikToki, Lisa, Vixy, Elsbet and co because you're all saved aren't you?.....You hope.

 

[Thunderian]

Well I would imagine the Temple would get raised to the ground by any concerned party in the ME who were well aware of the chaos that would ensue after it was built. But that's a work in progress (see USA foreign policy)

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Do you mean the Temple would be razed to the ground if it was built? By who?

 

[Awoken2]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Do you mean the Temple would be razed to the ground if it was built? By who?

Yes that's what I meant, my autocorrect is uneducated. Well I don't have any names specifically but I would imagine anybody who wasn't too keen on the idea of an apocalyptic outlook for the future.

 

[bible_student]

Again, they take the name because of the area they emigrated to, not because of who they descended from. Jews who emigrated to Spain call themselves Sephardic Jews, because Sepharad is their name for the Iberian peninsula, where Spain is. Maghrebi Jews are Jews that ended up in the Maghreb region of North Africa. Mizrahi Jews are Jews who went east during the diaspora (Mizraḥ is the Hebrew term for "the East"). If you are still having trouble with the concept, there's nothing more I can do.

Jews as defined today means anyone that has converted to Talmudic Judaism which is an organized religion.

Converting to an organized religion does not change a person's DNA. Talmudic Judaism has been accepting converts for the last 26 centuries, including three mass conversions to Talmudic Judaism over the last 2600 years.

There is no DNA evidence linking the Ashkenazis to the Biblical descendants of the House of Judah (the tribes of Judah and Benjamin) nor is there any DNA evidence linking the Ashkenazi to Noah’s second son Shem/Sem.

Per the standard Jewish Encyclopaedia, it’s likely 95% of the Jews today are NOT Semites. And as for the patently absurd claim that Ashkenazis were named after the land they occupied, instead of the fact it was the other way around, the evidence that the “land of Ashkenaz” was named after its Ashkenazi inhabitants comes as a direct admission from the Ashkenazis themselves:

Map of the World: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/map-of-the-world-according-to-the-bible

It would be against The Law (Torah) for real Jews (descended from the House of Judah) to adopt a non-Jewish, non-Semitic, non-Israelite designation. The Law forbids even marrying outside the 12 tribes so the notion of their intentional adoption of a foreign lineage is ludicrous.

I don't have the patience to explain how DNA science works. Work on understanding what an Ashkenazi Jew is.

Others already have done this. -

The available DNA evidence clearly indicates an Eastern European/Khazarian connection.

Genetic Research Confirms Khazar Theory

Ashkenazic Jews’ mysterious origins unravelled by scientists thanks to ancient DNA

 

[bible_student]

So the only real Jews are from the tribe of Judah?

Real jews would be people who actually descended from the House of Judah (the tribes of Judah and Benjamin). Most true descendants of the tribe of Judah converted to Christianity long ago.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

It's fine for the likes of you, Red, TikToki, Lisa, Vixy, Elsbet and co because you're all saved aren't you?.....You hope.

@Awoken2 - please consider this - I any of us were simply “saved and smug” would we really be here, politely replying to the questions of people full of doubt and criticism for us? I don’t “get” anything out of reading my own comments here, the ONLY reason I bother is so that if I could have even helped one person gain eternal life, it would have been all worthwhile.

“Winning” an argument is nothing to me, winning a brother or sister and stealing them from the enemy for the Kingdom of God is the primary reason why I still engage with the discussion here.

 

[Lisa]

Most true descendants of the tribe of Judah converted to Christianity long ago.

How do you know that?

 

[Awoken2]

please consider this - I any of us were simply “saved and smug” would we really be here, politely replying to the questions of people full of doubt and criticism for us?

I have now considered this. The question I have is why would a group of staunch Zionists be virtually embedded on a forum which is primarily focused on hidden societies, the occult and the entertainment industry?

Just for the record I believe that anybody who is promoting this end times storyline is either knowingly or unknowingly advocating U.S Zionists plans to attack Iran and possibly start a third world war. Did nobody.learn anything from 9/11? These people are psycopaths who don't lose a minutes sleep after killing thousands of people. Nobody is safe....and this has nothing to do with God...at all.

I don’t “get” anything out of reading my own comments here, the ONLY reason I bother is so that if I could have even helped one person gain eternal life,

Now this I really struggle with. I don't think you can help anybody gain eternal life. It's just a belief system you hold. All you can do is try and convince other people to adopt the same belief. Isn't a single life time long enough? At what age does a saved person get to live out this eternal life anyway?

I just don't agree with any belief system that looks forward to death. I don't have anything against you, I've commented before on how courteous and respectful you are to all posters. But quite frankly I think your beliefs are dangerous.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I have now considered this. The question I have is why would a group of staunch Zionists be virtually embedded on a forum which is primarily focused on hidden societies, the occult and the entertainment industry?

Just for the record I believe that anybody who is promoting this end times storyline is either knowingly or unknowingly advocating U.S Zionists plans to attack Iran and possibly start a third world war. Did nobody.learn anything from 9/11? These people are psycopaths who don't lose a minutes sleep after killing thousands of people. Nobody is safe....and this has nothing to do with God...at all.



Now this I really struggle with. I don't think you can help anybody gain eternal life. It's just a belief system you hold. All you can do is try and convince other people to adopt the same belief. Isn't a single life time long enough? At what age does a saved person get to live out this eternal life anyway?

I just don't agree with any belief system that looks forward to death. I don't have anything against you, I've commented before on how courteous and respectful you are to all posters. But quite frankly I think your beliefs are dangerous.

I suspect TPTB had a very similar view of the early Christians. Interesting again that the woes of Rome (even it’s burning) was blamed on them and that Nero eventually took pleasure in burning them ;-)

P.s. there is a difference between knowing the way to the hospital and being a doctor. I have no real “hero” complex going on. I just got discharged myself recently!