Christian Zionism Discussed

DavidSon

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"Sizer offered one shred of hope: surveys indicate that younger Americans raised in evangelical households are more sceptical about the Christian Zionist agenda. Sizer credited social media and the abundance of information available to younger people; their ministers’ words are no longer the only voices they hear."
 

Vytas

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I am born again, still not going to support state of Israel in any way or form. Btw i have no idea what i was responding to. Something was deleted i think.
 
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I am born again, still not going to support state of Israel in any way or form. Btw i have no idea what i was responding to. Something was deleted i think.
To say you are born again and not pray for Israel is an oxymoron. It is impossible to be one without the ministry for the Jew. What do you think you were like before (you say) you were born again? Salvation comes from the Jew, and God will save them in spite of your rejection of them. (The unfaithful servant) Who was forgiven his debts, but demanded what was owed him by others! It is a warning to us in Scripture by Christ, surely as a born again believer, you have read the Parable? if not...look it up.
 

Todd

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To say you are born again and not pray for Israel is an oxymoron. It is impossible to be one without the ministry for the Jew. What do you think you were like before (you say) you were born again? Salvation comes from the Jew, and God will save them in spite of your rejection of them. (The unfaithful servant) Who was forgiven his debts, but demanded what was owed him by others! It is a warning to us in Scripture by Christ, surely as a born again believer, you have read the Parable? if not...look it up.
Praying for the peace of Jerusalem and ministering the gospel to individual Jewish people is not the same thing as unfettered support for the modern day political entitiy known as Israel.
 

Vytas

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To say you are born again and not pray for Israel is an oxymoron. It is impossible to be one without the ministry for the Jew.
I have nothing to comment on that, except that when i pray for people their nationality is least of my concerns. As for Israel itself i consider them rogue state and reason for much evil in the world, oxymoron ? Don't force me to go through king and prophets of OT as zionists like you seem to focus only on some of God's dealings and promises to them and completely ignore others. There are some scary ones...

What do you think you were like before (you say) you were born again?
I wrote my testimony on old forums not gonna do it second time. Cute of you to doubt it.

Salvation comes from the Jew, and God will save them in spite of your rejection of them. (The unfaithful servant) Who was forgiven his debts, but demanded what was owed him by others! It is a warning to us in Scripture by Christ, surely as a born again believer, you have read the Parable? if not...look it up.
Salvation comes from Jesus and him alone. That particular parable should be exceptionally scary for jews and rightfully so. Because their were given the most.

Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
Mat 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.


And i think jews as a nation got a lot worse from the times of Jesus...

P.S. surely you have read that before don't you ?
 
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Praying for the peace of Jerusalem and ministering the gospel to individual Jewish people is not the same thing as unfettered support for the modern day political entitiy known as Israel.
Even if your not born again, your attitude is wrong....Read the Acts and Epistles.
 
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I have nothing to comment on that, except that when i pray for people their nationality is least of my concerns. As for Israel itself i consider them rogue state and reason for much evil in the world, oxymoron ? Don't force me to go through king and prophets of OT as zionists like you seem to focus only on some of God's dealings and promises to them and completely ignore others. There are some scary ones...



I wrote my testimony on old forums not gonna do it second time. Cute of you to doubt it.



Salvation comes from Jesus and him alone. That particular parable should be exceptionally scary for jews and rightfully so. Because their were given the most.

Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
Mat 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.


And i think jews as a nation got a lot worse from the times of Jesus...

P.S. surely you have read that before don't you ?
You are so far from Spiritual and divine influence, by your carnal wisdom and misuse of Scripture...You add nothing to the fellowship to the born again believer.....Read all the Scriptures.
 

Todd

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Even if your not born again, your attitude is wrong....Read the Acts and Epistles.
I have read them quite often in the last 25 years. Since the modern day political entity of Israel didn't exist when they were written, I can't imagine what in Acts and the Epistles you think calls for unfettered support of it.
 
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I have read them quite often in the last 25 years. Since the modern day political entity of Israel didn't exist when they were written, I can't imagine what in Acts and the Epistles you think calls for unfettered support of it.
You sound like you are bragging! Your very discussion lacks any Mercy and Grace but pride in your carnal knowledge.
 

Todd

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You sound like you are bragging! Your very discussion lacks any Mercy and Grace but pride in your carnal knowledge.
Please forgive me for any tone or perceived lack of mercy and grace. Not my intention at all. I am humbly and ignorantly asking what specific passages in Acts or the Epistles you believe justify the unfettered support of a secular political entity.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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I haven't posted to this thread for a while as there appears to be the assumption that if you believe that God had anything to do with bringing the Jews back into Israel 70 years ago, that you now look uncritically at the modern state of Israel as some kind of perfection, or they were engaged with activities that God approved of and were rewarded by the chance to return to their homeland.

Perhaps these observations might put a different interpretation on that:-

In Ezekiel 4:4, he is told to lie on his left side for 390 days and then his right side for 40 days. Each day Ezekiel lay there was to represent a year of punishment for Israel and Judah.​
Adding the 360 and 40 we have a total of 430 years, and if you deduct 70 years "time served" in the Babylonian exile, you get 360 years.​
Leviticus 26:18 states that "And if ye shall not for all this hearken unto me then I will punish you 7 times more for your sins"​
It is a matter of historical note that only about 5% of the Hebrews returned with Ezra (and even they didn't all follow God) so God would have been perfectly within his right to apply his "sevenfold" judgement from Leviticus on the Jews for their continued disobedience. This would then mean that the remaining judgement would have been 360 x 7, or 2520 years.​
Now the Jews use the Lunar calendar and this is the but that requires a cup of coffee and some concentration:-​
2520 x 360 (Jewish lunar calendar days) = 907,200 days.​
The end of the Babylonian captivity began spring (Nisan) 536 BC​
Divide this 907,200 by 365.25 (our solar calendar year) and you get 2483.8 solar years.*​
*It is important at this stage to note that there was only one year between Passover in 1 BC and Passover in 1 AD, i.e. no 0 year BC.
----------​
So, if we begin our count from the end of the Babylonian captivity in spring 536 BC and add an exile of 2483.8 calendar years (based on that 7 times judgement for continued disobedience)...​
2483.8 - 536.4 (the years BC) we get 1947.4.​
Now add one on and you get 1948.4.​
The Nation of Israel was formed on May 14th 1948.​

Coincidence? Long term Illuminati planning? God's timing? It is for each of us to ponder and decide...

The assumption that "Christian Zionists" are to endorse and celebrate all things Israeli is really a straw man. The point I would add is the observation that if an individual commits a crime, is given a prison term, and after several years is released based on time served doesn't mean the discharged man is a good man. He might be, he might not. It just means that the sanction has been lifted and he is free to go. In the case of the Jews it would appear that in May 1948 they had served their time according to God and were free to return home.

What they do with that freedom is up to them and they will be held accountable for it. There might even be another "7 times" judgement heading their way soon but that is another story...
 
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Etagloc

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Please forgive me for any tone or perceived lack of mercy and grace. Not my intention at all. I am humbly and ignorantly asking what specific passages in Acts or the Epistles you believe justify the unfettered support of a secular political entity.
Does serving Satan count as secular?
 

DavidSon

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I was also anticipating your comments on the video.

We have, compared to 1st century Jews, the benefit of retrospect and/or the passage of time. I don’t disagree that the prophecies relating to the first Advent were misinterpreted, culminating in the crucifixion, and that the second Advent (with events before and after) isn’t immune to misinterpretation. The benefit that we have is that their mistakes are open to us to be studied, such as: it made sense for the “teachers of Israel” to misread the prophecies because they spelled an end to their office, namely, the priesthood. So they worked their way around the topic, in essence, they had motive to misread the prophecies…..in rejecting Christ, they maintained the existence of their office. As in, an earthly priesthood cannot co-exist with a heavenly priesthood, so something has got to give.

Hence we can apply the same standard by looking at each eschatological pov. Not to rail against your beliefs but the PTB just love pre-mil/pre-trib, not just in politics but in entertainment aswell (think: the Left Behind movies). They heavily lean on it for their geo-political moves (why? Could they have spawned it?) I challenge you to find me one (Hollywood made) Christian end-times movie that isn’t pre-trib. The biggest Christian tv networks in the world are pre-trib/pro-Israel….because the existence of the state of Israel is a prerequisite for the rapture/temple/etc

Anyway, some of those televangelists sold the Iraq war from their pulpits and the same is being done or has been done for whatever it is that is coming (Megiddo). Iam reposting this Vice video
I am so thankful for your input and the information you're sharing. I just caught this video and though short, is a crystal clear view inside the mind of these dangerous fanatics.

The evangelicals of the bible belt make up the power-base of the Israeli lobbies. There are 70 mil. evangelicals in the US, and 80% believe in the Zionist state. They are the largest pro-Israeli voting block in the world. People need to realize who is currently allowing the Palestinians to be decimated.

I can't remember which thread I found this video on but I think you posted it Karlysymon? The amount of knowledge has my head spinning. Understanding how the CIA and other illicit powers helped craft, from the 1950's and throughout the decades, what we know as popular Christianity/ Evangelism. Thanks again, keep preaching the truth!

 

Red Sky at Morning

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I just caught this video and though short, is a crystal clear view inside the mind of these dangerous fanatics.
I think the term "Zionists" is like the term "Conspiracy Theorists" - a catch all term that includes all sorts of folk, from the astute to the stupid. You could take a subset of opinions presented in a conspiracy website and conclude that all such people should be smothered at birth! Equally, you could take a subset of the unquestioning, unbiblical and sycophantic perspectives of certain Christian Zionists and conclude that they would rather be Jews and move to Israel. Both sets of people can be used as a polemic against the label of the group they belong to, but the reality is far more complex.

The actual maths around the establishment of the State of Israel remains an intriguing issue regardless...

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/christian-zionism-discussed.2062/page-15#post-188933
 

TokiEl

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There is a prophecy in Ezekiel 38 where Gog is said to be the guard for a confederacy consisting of Persia Ethiopia Libya Gomer and Togarmah which in the latter years will attack those who were gathererd from many people on the mountains of Israel which had long been desolate.

Now we have Russia acting as a guard in Syria and both Turkey and Iran are there as well.


Actually it is God himself who puts hooks into their jaws to drag Gog and the confederacy to attack Israel... so God will be known to the nations when He will bury Gog and allies on the mountains of Israel.

And at this attack is when God's wrath begins.
 
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