Carbohydrates are not essential

[Maes17]

Speaking of food fads, around 30 years ago there was a big push to "educate" Brits about the importance of including roughage (fibres) in our diet, so I used to crumble up shredded wheat and sprinkle it on my dinner.
But every few weeks I used to get terrible bowel cramps and it took me a while before the penny dropped and I realised it was probably the roughage clogging up my gut, so I quit eating roughage and the cramps never occurred again..

I rarely do wheat as well. Maybe we have celiacs disease or something.
Although I can stomach oatmeal well

 

[Maes17]

Hang on a minute. Don't pass judgement before @billy t has even replied. We can prove each other wrong, and learn from one another! Don't let this conversation reach a dead-end, I am benefitting a lot from all the information being shared.

Same. We can benefit from a low carb or carbo load.
Whatever your goals are.

I personally feel better taking carbs cause I do a lot of heavy lifting and high intensity cardio. I’m sure my body can adapt to a low carb/high calorie/high protein/fat diet. I’m just going by what foods give me a boost.

 

[Daze]

Same. We can benefit from a low carb or carbo load.
Whatever your goals are.

I personally feel better taking carbs cause I do a lot of heavy lifting and high intensity cardio. I’m sure my body can adapt to a low carb/high calorie/high protein/fat diet. I’m just going by what foods give me a boost.

I've heard most lifters avoid high intensity cardio due to it being a gain killer?

I try to walk alot myself. 1-4 miles after work but high intensity cardio seems to favor endurance over strength and you can end up sacrificing one for the other.

I need to lose some weight (10-15lb) and I've done enough research to know its all about calories in / calories out. I don't think i would try running to even the ratio. Even though there seem to be some workouts that can burn 1k calories. I think they might work against my goals which is pure strength.

 

[Maes17]

I've heard most lifters avoid high intensity cardio due to it being a gain killer?

I try to walk alot myself. 1-4 miles after work but high intensity cardio seems to favor endurance over strength and you can end up sacrificing one for the other.

I need to lose some weight (10-15lb) and I've done enough research to know its all about calories in / calories out. I don't think i would try running to even the ratio. Even though there seem to be some workouts that can burn 1k calories. I think they might work against my goals which is pure strength.

I do mainly sprint intervals. I train more athletic than pure lifting. It depends on goals. My body is horrible at jogging.

I see better physical and mental results training within an athletic program than a bodybuilding or powerlifting program. Although there wil be correlations

 

[Maldarker]

Strawman arguments are not worth responding to.

As for the part about eating in a way that matches your blood type then I am not aware of any evidence for this theory.
Theory behind popular blood-type diet debunked

Theory behind popular blood-type diet debunked

Researchers have found that the theory behind the popular blood type diet -- which claims an individual’s nutritional needs vary by blood type -- is not valid.

www.sciencedaily.com

.

Quote: "We can now be confident in saying that the blood type diet hypothesis is false." Last year, a comprehensive review published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition found no evidence to support the 'blood-type' diet and called for properly designed scientific studies to address it"

See health GURU answer. Not everything works right not everything your saying is healthy for everyone.

Strawman arguments are not worth responding to.

As for the part about eating in a way that matches your blood type then I am not aware of any evidence for this theory.
Theory behind popular blood-type diet debunked

Theory behind popular blood-type diet debunked

Researchers have found that the theory behind the popular blood type diet -- which claims an individual’s nutritional needs vary by blood type -- is not valid.

www.sciencedaily.com

.

Quote: "We can now be confident in saying that the blood type diet hypothesis is false." Last year, a comprehensive review published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition found no evidence to support the 'blood-type' diet and called for properly designed scientific studies to address it"

Good glad you see the smoke. About time. The reason i said the blood type is this was thought and obviously given credence since Harvard did a study on it. The point i'm getting at is look what other fads, diets, "ADVICE" and studies have come and gone. First butter bad. Butter good. Butter kind of good!?! See where this is going. Just because it works for you Billy doesn't mean it works for EVERYONE hence the "GURU" quip.

Let me give you an example: Your shawn baker guy He eats basic nothing but meat. Do you think this is a really good long term diet? What types of meat? Is it straight from the farm to table or does it get processed. Lot's of factors not? If i listen to you and just eat meat i would statistically end up with a higher risk of colon cancer.

So to close. Enjoy life people it's to short. I got cancer and no not from food it's military related but the doc said that my health is really good (Don't drink don't smoke & been eating farm to table food intake not diet limits just moderation on things maybe more of one thing one day less another) and is why i am fighting it very well.

 

[billy t]

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See health GURU answer. Not everything works right not everything your saying is healthy for everyone.

Good glad you see the smoke. About time. The reason i said the blood type is this was thought and obviously given credence since Harvard did a study on it. The point i'm getting at is look what other fads, diets, "ADVICE" and studies have come and gone. First butter bad. Butter good. Butter kind of good!?! See where this is going. Just because it works for you Billy doesn't mean it works for EVERYONE hence the "GURU" quip.

Let me give you an example: Your shawn baker guy He eats basic nothing but meat. Do you think this is a really good long term diet? What types of meat? Is it straight from the farm to table or does it get processed. Lot's of factors not? If i listen to you and just eat meat i would statistically end up with a higher risk of colon cancer.

So to close. Enjoy life people it's to short. I got cancer and no not from food it's military related but the doc said that my health is really good (Don't drink don't smoke & been eating farm to table food intake not diet limits just moderation on things maybe more of one thing one day less another) and is why i am fighting it very well.

I am sorry to hear about your current health condition. I have two friends with cancer at present too. All to common these days. I hope your treatment goes well.

I have never said everything works for everyone.

I have never even advocated a specific diet on here. Not once. Low carb diets are good for some people. I myself don't eat a very low carb diet. Last night I made some macaroni cheese for dinner. Not exactly the healthiest meal or low carb either. You seem to have this idea that I am so radical health enthusiast who wants to ram my ideas down everyones throats.

Some foods like meat tend to be good for almost everyone. Other foods are somewhere in the middle. You then have things like sugar, vegetable oils and so on which will be bad for everyone. People will just have different levels of resilience to them.

When I say too much sugar is bad then yes that applies to everyone because we all the same physiological reaction to it. All of our livers have to process the fructose.

As for butter it was always good. It didn't become bad because of the saturated fat myth because that was always a load of nonsense.

As for whether Shawn Bakers diet would be good long term then I don't see why not. An animal based diet supplies all the nutrients that the body needs. I would never eat such a diet myself because I like variety.

Calling every diet a fad is a bit of a myopic way of looking at things. If every diet under the sun is a fad then you are basically saying that you should eat what you want and nothing can change your health.

Also, why is the blood type diet not a fad?

I have only responded to things I have seen in your posts that are either incorrect and based on myths or due to flaws in logic. Calling me a guru for pointing that out is a little bit silly don't you think?

Everyone here can benefit from each other. Its about having a healthy conversation and each person presenting what they can bring to the table. If anyone sees something in my posts that they believe is incorrect then show me evidence and I will retract.

 

[billy t]

See health GURU answer. Not everything works right not everything your saying is healthy for everyone.

Good glad you see the smoke. About time. The reason i said the blood type is this was thought and obviously given credence since Harvard did a study on it. The point i'm getting at is look what other fads, diets, "ADVICE" and studies have come and gone. First butter bad. Butter good. Butter kind of good!?! See where this is going. Just because it works for you Billy doesn't mean it works for EVERYONE hence the "GURU" quip.

Let me give you an example: Your shawn baker guy He eats basic nothing but meat. Do you think this is a really good long term diet? What types of meat? Is it straight from the farm to table or does it get processed. Lot's of factors not? If i listen to you and just eat meat i would statistically end up with a higher risk of colon cancer.

So to close. Enjoy life people it's to short. I got cancer and no not from food it's military related but the doc said that my health is really good (Don't drink don't smoke & been eating farm to table food intake not diet limits just moderation on things maybe more of one thing one day less another) and is why i am fighting it very well.

"If I eat meat i would statistically end up with a higher risk of colon cancer".

See what you are doing bro? You bring up myth after myth after myth then when I respond to it you say that I think I am a health guru.

Obviously meat doesn't cause colon cancer. If it did then primitive cultures who ate almost nothing but meat would have had high incidents of it. Cancer rates have accelerated in the last 50 years or so. Clearly it has nothing to do with meat.

 

[Maes17]

"If I eat meat i would statistically end up with a higher risk of colon cancer".

See what you are doing bro? You bring up myth after myth after myth then when I respond to it you say that I think I am a health guru.

Obviously meat doesn't cause colon cancer. If it did then primitive cultures who ate almost nothing but meat would have had high incidents of it. Cancer rates have accelerated in the last 50 years or so. Clearly it has nothing to do with meat.

Cancer is all the pollution thanks to the advancement in tech. Gotta give something to get something sadly.

Keep posting on here. There’s no right or wrong diet. Posters on here can learn and find what best suits them.

I tried the high protein/high fat low carb. Just wasn’t for me. Got really hyperglycemic three months in.

My body needs carbs personally

 

[Maldarker]

"If I eat meat i would statistically end up with a higher risk of colon cancer".

See what you are doing bro? You bring up myth after myth after myth then when I respond to it you say that I think I am a health guru.

Obviously meat doesn't cause colon cancer. If it did then primitive cultures who ate almost nothing but meat would have had high incidents of it. Cancer rates have accelerated in the last 50 years or so. Clearly it has nothing to do with meat.

So study's on colon cancer are incorrect? Hmm i can post study after study that says different. That's what i'm getting at you idiot. What one says about food is wrong then the next study says stuff is good. Again read the whole post prior. FOr example butter bad then good then bad then good so what the F is it? Good or Bad.

Again your advice examples are blanket also not everyone will benefit each person is different what i need isn't what you need. Stuff i eat might not be the best for you. Look at all the contradictions with all the study's on food.

So to go back to the topic carbos not essential maybe for some people not for others would be a better title.

 

[Tidal]

This is me in my amateur club cycling glory days (longest ride I did was 140 miles in one day) ..

When I first began long distance cycling I learnt very quickly to give my body exactly what it wanted, for example 60 miles into one ride my stomach got a craving for sticky jam buns, fizzy pop, bananas, pork pies and chocolate but I ignored it and carried on pedalling as I wanted to put in some more miles before dark.
Bad call, I was then hit by what cyclists call "Hunger Knock" or "The Bonk" and had to stop and sit leaning against a farm gate about to faint in a cold sweat with a hissing in my ears, spots before my eyes and my stomach screaming out for food to burn like an incinerator, so I gobbled and drank the contents of my rucksack and within 10 minutes I was right as rain.
Apparently my blood sugar or something had dropped off the scale because I hadn't stopped to eat when I should have, lesson learnt..

 

[billy t]

So study's on colon cancer are incorrect? Hmm i can post study after study that says different. That's what i'm getting at you idiot. What one says about food is wrong then the next study says stuff is good. Again read the whole post prior. FOr example butter bad then good then bad then good so what the F is it? Good or Bad.

Again your advice examples are blanket also not everyone will benefit each person is different what i need isn't what you need. Stuff i eat might not be the best for you. Look at all the contradictions with all the study's on food.

So to go back to the topic carbos not essential maybe for some people not for others would be a better title.

Studies that link meat to colon cancer are based on poorly-designed epidemiological research that focused on one variable while failing to control for other variables. In a nutshell, I could design a study that linked wearing hooded sweaters in winter to colon cancer and my hypothesis would be just as valid. This is the reason why all these studies contradict each other because the research is a joke. Its not enough to just read an abstract. You must actually scrutinize the research and find out how the authors came to their conclusions.

You asked about butter. Is it good, or is it bad? Well mate, what is the evidence that saturated fat and cholesterol are bad? How about you start with that. Once you work out that cholesterol and saturated fat are not bad because there is no evidence for it except rodent/rabbit studies and flawed epidemiological research then you will realize that ANY study that links butter, coconut oil and meat to heart disease based on saturated fat and cholesterol is a bogus study.

How could cholesterol POSSIBLY be the big bad villain it is depicted as if cholesterol is an essential nutrient needed for optimal cognitive function and the synthesis of Vitamin D?!

The problem is not in studies contradicting each other. The problem is in you not knowing the difference between THEORETICAL science and PRACTICAL science. Differentiate between these two and you will save yourself a lot of energy.

 

[Maldarker]

Studies that link meat to colon cancer are based on poorly-designed epidemiological research that focused on one variable while failing to control for other variables. In a nutshell, I could design a study that linked taking showers in the morning instead of evening to colon cancer and my hypothesis would be just as valid. This is the reason why all these studies contradict each other because the research is a joke. Its not enough to just read an abstract. You must actually scrutinize the research and find out how the authors came to their conclusions.

You asked about butter. Is it good, or is it bad? Well mate, what is the evidence that saturated fat and cholesterol are bad? How about you start with that. Once you work out that cholesterol and saturated fat are not bad because there is no evidence for it except rodent/rabbit studies and flawed epidemiological research then you will realize that ANY study that links butter, coconut oil and meat to heart disease based on saturated fat and cholesterol is a bogus study.

How could cholesterol POSSIBLY be the big bad villain it is propped up as. Cholesterol is an essential nutrient needed for optimal cognitive function and the synthesis of Vitamin D.

The problem is not in studies contradicting each other. The problem is in your not knowing the difference between THEORITICAL science and PRACTICAL science. Differentiate between these two and you will save yourself a lot of energy.

Thank you now you understand where i'm coming from. The point being made in general is we have doctors doing research give out evidence & people run to that make new diet fads based on it, and within a couple years the opposite. These are renowned Universities that seem to not really know asses from elbows but the people suffer. Your giving advice saying that they are wrong so my question is what are your credentials that make you understand this better then them when it seems no one has got the right answer.

 

[billy t]

Thank you now you understand where i'm coming from. The point being made in general is we have doctors doing research give out evidence & people run to that make new diet fads based on it, and within a couple years the opposite. These are renowned Universities that seem to not really know asses from elbows but the people suffer. Your giving advice saying that they are wrong so my question is what are your credentials that make you understand this better then them when it seems no one has got the right answer.

What constitutes a fad diet? May be defining your terms might be a good idea since this seems to be the backbone of your argument.

Most doctors do not keep up with the latest scientific literature. Lets be honest here. They dogmatically follow the advice of government health agencies and match symptoms to white pills.

 

[billy t]

What constitutes a fad diet? May be defining your terms might be a good idea since this seems to be the backbone of your argument.

Most doctors do not keep up with the latest scientific literature. Lets be honest here. They dogmatically follow the advice of government health agencies and match symptoms to white pills.

When I say that the link between cholesterol/saturated fat and heart disease has been proven to be wrong I do not mean that there is a legitimate scientific debate on the issue. No, it is a VERIFIABLE FRAUD. Anyone who thinks otherwise has not looked diligently into the issue. Whole books have been written on the subject.

Statin Nation: The Ill-Founded War on Cholesterol, What Really Causes Heart Disease, and the Truth About the Most Overprescribed Drugs in the World: Smith, Justin: 9781603587532: Amazon.com: Books

Statin Nation: The Ill-Founded War on Cholesterol, What Really Causes Heart Disease, and the Truth About the Most Overprescribed Drugs in the World [Smith, Justin] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Statin Nation: The Ill-Founded War on Cholesterol, What Really Causes Heart...

www.amazon.com

 

[Maldarker]

What constitutes a fad diet? May be defining your terms might be a good idea since this seems to be the backbone of your argument.

Most doctors do not keep up with the latest scientific literature. Lets be honest here. They dogmatically follow the advice of government health agencies and match symptoms to white pills.

1) A fad diet is a limiting of certain nutrients be it carbs etc or limiting one substance but load up on another example would be the south beach diet.
2) Agree most doctors don't give a shit and follow what they are told makes money for the establishment they are working for.

3) again what are your credentials that make you smarter then researchers? Just asking.

 

[billy t]

1) A fad diet is a limiting of certain nutrients be it carbs etc or limiting one substance but load up on another example would be the south beach diet.
2) Agree most doctors don't give a shit and follow what they are told makes money for the establishment they are working for.

3) again what are your credentials that make you smarter then researchers? Just asking.

1) Then according to that definition nobody can change their eating habits because it is not possible to do that without limiting certain nutrients or increasing others. Hence anyone who limits any macro or nutrient or increases others then they are following a fad diet.
2)
3) I don't claim to know better than researchers. I read studies by experts and material by health researchers who direct me to studies. I didn't come to any of these conclusions on my own. I am just trying to learn like everybody else. I am only sharing views I have came across and presenting them for others to consider or challenge.

 

[billy t]

1) A fad diet is a limiting of certain nutrients be it carbs etc or limiting one substance but load up on another example would be the south beach diet.
2) Agree most doctors don't give a shit and follow what they are told makes money for the establishment they are working for.

3) again what are your credentials that make you smarter then researchers? Just asking.

Another point. When government agencies tell people to decrease their fat intake to lose weight its never seen as a fad diet yet when someone decreases carbs it is automatically categorized under fad diet by default. Bizarre.

 

[Maldarker]

Another point. When government agencies tell people to decrease their fat intake to lose weight its never seen as a fad diet yet when someone decreases carbs it is automatically categorized under fad diet by default. Bizarre.

1) Then according to that definition nobody can change their eating habits because it is not possible to do that without limiting certain nutrients or increasing others. Hence anyone who limits any macro or nutrient or increases others then they are following a fad diet.
2)
3) I don't claim to know better than researchers. I read studies by experts and material by health researchers who direct me to studies. I didn't come to any of these conclusions on my own. I am just trying to learn like everybody else. I am only sharing views I have came across and presenting them for others to consider or challenge.

Excellent!

And just focusing on the 1st point: So balance would be best not?

 

[billy t]

Excellent!

And just focusing on the 1st point: So balance would be best not?

Balance is a vague term to use when it comes to diet. The way the mainstream media use the term it implies that all food groups are equally as important. Hence grains and legumes basically have their own category. So, if you eat from all the other food categories (poultry, meat, vegetables, fruit, seafood) but exclude grains these individuals would consider your diet to be "lacking balance".

If someone eats seafood, red meat, eggs, dairy (if tolerated) fruit during spring and summer and chuck in some organs from time to time then they should be getting all of the nutrients that they need. Therefore, such a diet is balanced. A diet is only lacking balance when it leaves someone deficient in something that is required to be healthy. Vegan diets are unbalanced and starvation diets because they lead to deficiency in essential nutrients overtime as the bodies stores become depleted.

Fruit did not used to grow in winter. It now grows all year around due to humans modifying the fruit to grow in shorter light cycles. Is that considered a lack of balance?

I agree that everything in ones diet must be balanced but there is many nuances to it. What is a balanced diet for a diabetic is not the same as balance for an athlete who has no problems with blood sugar. Diet has to be contextual to each individual.

However, some things apply across the board. Alcohol is toxic to everyone regardless of their health status. Some individuals are just more resilient than others. Vegetable oils high in pufas are bad for everyone. Everyone needs Vitamin C, etc, etc.

 

[Maldarker]

Balance is a vague term to use when it comes to diet. The way the mainstream media use the term it implies that all food groups are equally as important. Hence grains and legumes basically have their own category. So, if you eat from all the other food categories (poultry, meat, vegetables, fruit, seafood) but exclude grains these individuals would consider your diet to be "lacking balance".

If someone eats seafood, red meat, eggs, dairy (if tolerated) fruit during spring and summer and chuck in some organs from time to time then they should be getting all of the nutrients that they need. Therefore, such a diet is balanced. A diet is only lacking balance when it leaves someone deficient in something that is required to be healthy. Vegan diets are unbalanced and starvation diets because they lead to deficiency in essential nutrients overtime as the bodies stores become depleted.

Fruit did not used to grow in winter. It now grows all year around due to humans modifying the fruit to grow in shorter light cycles. Is that considered a lack of balance?

I agree that everything in ones diet must be balanced but there is many nuances to it. What is a balanced diet for a diabetic is not the same as balance for an athlete who has no problems with blood sugar. Diet has to be contextual to each individual.

However, some things apply across the board. Alcohol is toxic to everyone regardless of their health status. Some individuals are just more resilient than others. Vegetable oils high in pufas are bad for everyone. Everyone needs Vitamin C, etc, etc.

That's what i am saying. We are unique each of use probably doesn't need exactly what the next person does.

And what i mean by lacking is yes cutting out totally something and not replacing it with something to match it.

Thanks for such awesome dialogue Billy!