Carbohydrates are not essential

billy t

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Dietary glucose is not essential. There is no deficiency state associated with lack of dietary glucose. This is mentioned in many biochemistry books.

I currently eat around 100 grams of carbohydrates a day because I play basketball and need them for explosiveness. However, I have ate a close to zero carb diet in the past for almost 3 years and had no noticeable side effects. My mental clarity was great, energy levels were consistent throughout the day etc, etc.

Many people think that you need carbohydrates in order for the brain to function but this shows a lack of knowledge in biochemistry. The body still has ways of making glucose despite someone not consuming any.

Some people will argue "well that proves that glucose is so important that the body makes it". This is a stupid argument. Lions make vitamin C endogenously. Does that mean that lions have to eat citrus fruits?
 






TrustNo1

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Low/zero carb works good for a short time, but the body needs carbs in the long-term.
"The liver supplies sugar or glucose by turning glycogen into glucose in a process called glycogenolysis." When the body is not getting proper nutrients, it will almost "eat itself" to survive. This also puts loads of stress on the body.
Considering that the body is using up the excess stored glucose from the liver, doesn't it mean that you do need to consume it in order to have this backup in the first place?
Also, we're not lions :)
 






billy t

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Low/zero carb works good for a short time, but the body needs carbs in the long-term.
"The liver supplies sugar or glucose by turning glycogen into glucose in a process called glycogenolysis." When the body is not getting proper nutrients, it will almost "eat itself" to survive. This also puts loads of stress on the body.
Considering that the body is using up the excess stored glucose from the liver, doesn't it mean that you do need to consume it in order to have this backup in the first place?
Also, we're not lions :)
Your claim that the body "needs carbs" in the long term is false. The body can make its own glucose to supply all of the bodies needs. Once the brain is adapted to using ketones for energy it only needs around 30 percent of its needs from glucose which frees more glucose for other organs. Many of the bodies organs can run on fat. Many argue that the brain and other organs run better on fat as it is a cleaner fuel source. The body can make glucose from amino acids (gluconeogenesis) so as long as ones protein intake is adequate then all of the bodies glucose needs will be met. Not only that but the body can make glucose from glycerol.


The body eats itself in the absence of PROTEIN and CALORIES not carbs.

You have also made the mistake of assuming carbs and glucose are synonymous. The body does not need dietary glucose because it can make ENDOGENOUS glucose.

Based on the above, there is no need for the body to "eat itself" because all of its needs are being met. If the body did cannibilize itself as you claim then why is there no deficiency state associated with lack of carbs? Why don't biochemistry textbooks mention the deficiency state associated with lack of carbs?

As for you question, "Considering that the body is using up the excess stored glucose from the liver, doesn't it mean that you do need to consume it in order to have this backup in the first place?"

Again this is based upon your misunderstanding that glycogen in the liver must come from dietary carbs. The liver can still store glycogen in the absence of eating carbs. With time, it becomes more efficient.
 






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TrustNo1

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Your claim that the body "needs carbs" in the long term is false. The body can make its own glucose to supply all of the bodies needs. Once the brain is adapted to using ketones for energy it only needs around 30 percent of its needs from glucose which frees more glucose for other organs. Many of the bodies organs can run on fat. Many argue that the brain and other organs run better on fat as it is a cleaner fuel source. The body can make glucose from amino acids (gluconeogenesis) so as long as ones protein intake is adequate then all of the bodies glucose needs will be met. Not only that but the body can make glucose from glycerol.


The body eats itself in the absence of PROTEIN and CALORIES not carbs.

You have also made the mistake of assuming carbs and glucose are synonymous. The body does not need dietary glucose because it can make ENDOGENOUS glucose.

Based on the above, there is no need for the body to "eat itself" because all of its needs are being met. If the body did cannibilize itself as you claim then why is there no deficiency state associated with lack of carbs? Why don't biochemistry textbooks mention the deficiency state associated with lack of carbs?

As for you question, "Considering that the body is using up the excess stored glucose from the liver, doesn't it mean that you do need to consume it in order to have this backup in the first place?"

Again this is based upon your misunderstanding that glycogen in the liver must come from dietary carbs. The liver can still store glycogen in the absence of eating carbs. With time, it becomes more efficient.
So your into the Keto diet I suppose. Well do whatever is working for you.
I'm just noticing a lot of women who are going low carb and seeing their health fall apart some time later - hair loss, poor menstrual cycles, lack of energy.
 






billy t

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I don't currently eat keto. I followed keto for like 3 years and experienced none of those side effects you mentioned.

Those side effects are all due to lack of calories not lack of carbs.
 






billy t

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Tell all this to Shawn Baker who basically eats nothing but meat.


It really looks like he "lacks energy".
 






Tidal

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All my life I've eaten exactly what my body tells me it wants, including meat, veg, 'junk food' and anything else, and I've paid absolutely no attention to what the latest food fads are, or what's supposed to be good or bad for us.
For example right now my body is telling me it fancies some brussel sprouts, so I'll do myself some for dinner with a tin of spuds and a beefburger all covered in nice thick gravy.
The moral?- I'm 73 years and am not dead yet..:)
 






Mr.Anderson

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Just because you don't need carbs to live this doesn't mean you should avoid them, mostly because they come bundled with some other amazing stuff. Like dietary fibers. Good luck with your bowel movements.
 






billy t

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Just because you don't need carbs to live this doesn't mean you should avoid them, mostly because they come bundled with some other amazing stuff. Like dietary fibers. Good luck with your bowel movements.
I never said healthy people should avoid carbs. I said they are not essential.

Many government health agencies recommend around 250 grams of carbs a day and put emphasis on it hence this myth is in need of being debunked. They never put a recommendation for protein though. They treat carbs as if they are the most important macronutrient. Don't eat protein and fat and your in SERIOUS, SERIOUS trouble. Don't eat carbs, no problem. You will adapt. Yet carbs are treated as the most important macro.

Fiber is not needed for bowel movements. Another myth. This is a myth that came from the grain industry to sell cheap grains in the form of cereals. The body adapts to whatever amount of fiber you eat. Fiber is not even digestible. In fact, many times fiber actually causes constipation.

Again, I am not saying to avoid fiber. I am saying it is not essential. Everything you are saying is based on common myths that get repeated over and over again and people take it as the gospel truth. Fiber does not stop constipation at all. Sometimes it actually causes it.

Here's a study about it.

.

Quote: "This study has confirmed that the previous strongly-held belief that the application of dietary fiber to help constipation is but a myth. Our study shows a very strong correlation between improving constipation and its associated symptoms after stopping dietary fiber intake".

Furthermore, when I ate keto in the past I got my fiber from green vegetables. You argument that fiber is needed for bowel movements is false but even if it WAS correct you can get fiber from green vegetables.

Can't copy the link to the study for some reason. Here it is: 1622029655670.png
 






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Mr.Anderson

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I never said healthy people should avoid carbs. I said they are not essential.

Fiber is not needed for bowel movements. Another myth. This is a myth that came from the grain industry to sell cheap grains in the form of cereals. The body adapts to whatever amount of fiber you eat. Fiber is not even digestible. In fact, many times fiber actually causes constipation.

Again, I am not saying to avoid fiber. I am saying it is not essential. Everything you are saying is based on common myths that get repeated over and over again and people take it as the gospel truth. Fiber does not stop constipation at all. Sometimes it actually causes it.

Here's a study about it.

.

Quote: "This study has confirmed that the previous strongly-held belief that the application of dietary fiber to help constipation is but a myth. Our study shows a very strong correlation between improving constipation and its associated symptoms after stopping dietary fiber intake".

Furthermore, when I ate keto in the past I got my fiber from green vegetables. You argument that fiber is needed for bowel movements is false but even if it WAS correct you can get fiber from green vegetables.

Can't copy the link to the study for some reason. Here it is: View attachment 56543
I haven't said, in any my 36 words of the last post, that fibers were needed for bowel movements. Drop the strawman.

Again, I reinterate that altough carbs aren't essential to life, some of them are amazing chemicals that greatly increase your life quality (in example: lycopene).

Regarding "Everything you are saying is based on common myths that get repeated over and over again"

nope:

WhatsApp Image 2021-05-26 at 09.05.43.jpeg

This is just a bit of what I have studied during my graduation years, I know very well what I'm saying.

And about the NCBI article, the authors explicit mention that these were people that were already suffering from idiopatic constipation and were vegetarian. If anything, this paper just show how dangerous can be to overdo something. These guys used the same paper as you to tell that sometimes reducing fibers could help (at [80] reference) but the fibers work well in most cases.

Heck, the guy even wrote this "The results of this study should lead us to reexamine popular beliefs in benefits of dietary fiber and more studies should be undertaken to confirm or repudiate these results."

But then again, do whatever floats your boat. I'll be here muching my lycopene rich tomato.
 






Tidal

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Speaking of food fads, around 30 years ago there was a big push to "educate" Brits about the importance of including roughage (fibres) in our diet, so I used to crumble up shredded wheat and sprinkle it on my dinner.
But every few weeks I used to get terrible bowel cramps and it took me a while before the penny dropped and I realised it was probably the roughage clogging up my gut, so I quit eating roughage and the cramps never occurred again..:)
 






Maldarker

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I haven't said, in any my 36 words of the last post, that fibers were needed for bowel movements. Drop the strawman.

Again, I reinterate that altough carbs aren't essential to life, some of them are amazing chemicals that greatly increase your life quality (in example: lycopene).

Regarding "Everything you are saying is based on common myths that get repeated over and over again"

nope:

View attachment 56545

This is just a bit of what I have studied during my graduation years, I know very well what I'm saying.

And about the NCBI article, the authors explicit mention that these were people that were already suffering from idiopatic constipation and were vegetarian. If anything, this paper just show how dangerous can be to overdo something. These guys used the same paper as you to tell that sometimes reducing fibers could help (at [80] reference) but the fibers work well in most cases.

Heck, the guy even wrote this "The results of this study should lead us to reexamine popular beliefs in benefits of dietary fiber and more studies should be undertaken to confirm or repudiate these results."

But then again, do whatever floats your boat. I'll be here muching my lycopene rich tomato.
He thinks he/she/it is a health guru so think of that what you will.
 






billy t

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He thinks he/she/it is a health guru so think of that what you will.
I haven't said, in any my 36 words of the last post, that fibers were needed for bowel movements. Drop the strawman.

Again, I reinterate that altough carbs aren't essential to life, some of them are amazing chemicals that greatly increase your life quality (in example: lycopene).

Regarding "Everything you are saying is based on common myths that get repeated over and over again"

nope:

View attachment 56545

This is just a bit of what I have studied during my graduation years, I know very well what I'm saying.

And about the NCBI article, the authors explicit mention that these were people that were already suffering from idiopatic constipation and were vegetarian. If anything, this paper just show how dangerous can be to overdo something. These guys used the same paper as you to tell that sometimes reducing fibers could help (at [80] reference) but the fibers work well in most cases.

Heck, the guy even wrote this "The results of this study should lead us to reexamine popular beliefs in benefits of dietary fiber and more studies should be undertaken to confirm or repudiate these results."

But then again, do whatever floats your boat. I'll be here muching my lycopene rich tomato.
You said, "Like dietary fibers. Good luck with your bowel movements." I may have misunderstood what you meant here exactly. You didn't eloborate.

I agree, small amounts of fiber have been shown to help people in some studies. I just believe fiber has been overhyped a lot.

People who eat low carb can still eat get lyposine from tomatos. Ketogenic diets usually require less than like 40 grams of carbs a day so someone could still eat some tomatos here and there. I am not advocating eating keto or zero carb.

Lyposine may have benefits. Its not something I have looked into in depth. However, bioflavanoids and so on in plants have also been overhyped a lot. The body produces glutothione which is the most powerful antioxidant in the body pretty much so if you have good glutothione levels then any benefit you get from antioxidants from plants is so insignificant it is not even worth paying attention to.
 






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billy t

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He thinks he/she/it is a health guru so think of that what you will.
Do I? Please direct me to this post where I claimed to be a health guru so I can delete it because I don't recall making this claim....
 






Maldarker

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Do I? Please direct me to this post where I claimed to be a health guru so I can delete it because I don't recall making this claim....
Well u might as well be read the above post. how about the sugar discuss or this one on carbos sure seems u u got it on lock and your way is the health way follow my way the way your doing it sucks. Just like a "GURU" or fanatic. Hey i like ur excitement! don't get me wrong. But not all of the stuff your saying is healthy for everyone. For example do you know how important blood type is to food you eat. That is a big one right there. These only eat this only eat that sure works for a time but not for a looooooong time. Grandpa lived to 95 died from missing Grandma not from what he ate. He even got covid and got over it so... i will follow his way, moderation of what you eat and stay away from over processed food.
 






Lurking009

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Dietary glucose is not essential. There is no deficiency state associated with lack of dietary glucose. This is mentioned in many biochemistry books.

I currently eat around 100 grams of carbohydrates a day because I play basketball and need them for explosiveness. However, I have ate a close to zero carb diet in the past for almost 3 years and had no noticeable side effects. My mental clarity was great, energy levels were consistent throughout the day etc, etc.

Many people think that you need carbohydrates in order for the brain to function but this shows a lack of knowledge in biochemistry. The body still has ways of making glucose despite someone not consuming any.

Some people will argue "well that proves that glucose is so important that the body makes it". This is a stupid argument. Lions make vitamin C endogenously. Does that mean that lions have to eat citrus fruits?
You are correct. It's nice to mix it up and eat other food groups, but physically speaking, we do not need carbs to live.
 






Lurking009

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Low/zero carb works good for a short time, but the body needs carbs in the long-term.
"The liver supplies sugar or glucose by turning glycogen into glucose in a process called glycogenolysis." When the body is not getting proper nutrients, it will almost "eat itself" to survive. This also puts loads of stress on the body.
Considering that the body is using up the excess stored glucose from the liver, doesn't it mean that you do need to consume it in order to have this backup in the first place?
Also, we're not lions :)
Not true. Having eaten low carb myself for many, many years, I can attest there have been no negative results. Thousands on low carb diets have also attested to the long term health benefits they have experienced. There are independent studies galore to support the science.
 






billy t

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Well u might as well be read the above post. how about the sugar discuss or this one on carbos sure seems u u got it on lock and your way is the health way follow my way the way your doing it sucks. Just like a "GURU" or fanatic. Hey i like ur excitement! don't get me wrong. But not all of the stuff your saying is healthy for everyone. For example do you know how important blood type is to food you eat. That is a big one right there. These only eat this only eat that sure works for a time but not for a looooooong time. Grandpa lived to 95 died from missing Grandma not from what he ate. He even got covid and got over it so... i will follow his way, moderation of what you eat and stay away from over processed food.
[/QUOTE
.
Strawman arguments are not worth responding to.

As for the part about eating in a way that matches your blood type then I am not aware of any evidence for this theory.
Theory behind popular blood-type diet debunked

.

Quote: "We can now be confident in saying that the blood type diet hypothesis is false." Last year, a comprehensive review published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition found no evidence to support the 'blood-type' diet and called for properly designed scientific studies to address it"
 






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