Canada passes anti-Islamophobia motion

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#21
On behalf of Islam? Canada is supposed to be a secular country. What message should they be sending, other than the one of tolerance and respect they already are?
A message on behalf of law and order. That says if you escalate these hate crimes, we will escalate the charges against you.
 





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#23
OKAY OKAY OKAY STOP RIGHT THERE

That particular hadith isnt even about the current events
that hadith is talking about the events after the coming of Anti-Christ that since the Jews are waiting for their Messiah but the actual Messiah is supposed to be Jesus Christ but they don't believe that so when Jesus Christ will come back to the world again and the muslims and the christians and some of the jews will follow Jesus Christ so those who will be following the Anti Christ after seeing the Anti Christ dead will rather than following Jesus Christ, would actually go and hide behind the trees and stones and because of the presence of Jesus Christ even the trees and stones will speak up against them because nature wouldnt want to be touched by the followers of the Anti christ

In that Video the imam clearly says "At the end of times when muslims will triumph over the most evil of mankind"

GOD! that poor imam lol getting blamed for something he didnt do
 





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#25
So in Islamic prophecy, the only ones who will be the most evil of mankind will be Jews?
the most evil of mankind means Anti Christ there lol not jews
Jews will just be the majority of followers but not all of them
and some will join Jesus Christ but many wont
its not only jews but some muslims christians etc as welll
 





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#26
So why does Muhammad single out Jews in that hadith? Why don't the rocks, etc., just say, Hey, there's a follower of the antichrist here?
 





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#28
And this coming messiah is actually the antichrist? I asked before, is Islamic prophecy is based around the idea that Jews are evil? Tell me how it's not.
 





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#29
And this coming messiah is actually the antichrist? I asked before, is Islamic prophecy is based around the idea that Jews are evil? Tell me how it's not.
If Jesus Christ already appeared in the world then ofcourse the other Christ is going to be the Anti christ.
We can't have two jesus christ.

"This day [all] good foods have been made lawful, and the food of those who were given the Scripture is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them. And [lawful in marriage are] chaste women from among the believers and chaste women from among those who were given the Scripture before you, when you have given them their due compensation, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse or taking [secret] lovers. And whoever denies the faith - his work has become worthless, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers."

"Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans [before Prophet Muhammad] - those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve."




 





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#30
As far as hate crimes go, it looks like Jewish people are about twice as likely to be the victims of hate crimes in Canada than Muslims, so this motion makes even less sense.
 





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#31
I hate getting into religious debates because it is a sensitive topic and often very subjective.

From what little I know about Islam, I can tell you it is not a religion of violence and hatred like mass media would have you believe.
Also, Hadiths should be taken with a grain of salt because they were compiled over 200 years after the death of the Prophet. So approximately 3-4 generations would have been passed before people compiled a book of things that the Prophet may have said during his lifetime.

The one thing that is meant to be 100% authentic in Islam is the Quran. It is a compilation of verses that were revealed to the Prophet at different moments in his life directly from God. Note that the order of revelation is not the same order that it is currently printed in. Some of the infamous "violent" verses that people absolutely love quoting were revealed at times of wars, when the muslims were outnumbered
(3 to 10) and afraid to fight. It was about having faith and winning despite being outnumbered. Even then, the Quran states that one must not harm women, children and anyone who doesn't fight them back.

As for religious tolerance, there are numerous instances where the Quran says simply convey the message (educate about islam) and clearly mentions that there must not be compulsion in accepting it. In fact one short chapter (named The Unbelievers 109) which is widely memorised clearly states "For you is your religion, and for me is my religion."

I don't understand Arabic so I don't know what this Montreal Imam is saying. In the Quran, Jews are often mentioned as "Children of Israel" and were once God's favourite people. They're even claimed to be more superior in intelligence (though Idk if this is part of actual Quran or whispered Hadiths). The division between these religions came at the inception of Islam whence the Jews refused to believe that Prophet Muhammed was an actual prophet (on an equal level as Moses) because he was not an Israelite (God's favoured group) but rather Arab. This viewpoint of early Jews had been deemed arrogance and mentioned in the Quran. So now what "Hard-Core Muslims" do is just blatantly lash out at them.

One thing I should point out is that a large proportion of Muslims have never read a translation of the Quran. Most kids who are born in muslim families simply know basics like "be nice to everyone" and lol "don't eat pork". Most racism derives from culture differences rather than religious differences.

My personal opinion on the matter is that there is an agenda to wipe out religion completely and to make the world secular before shaping it into something else. Attacks on Islam have increased in the past decade (post 9/11) and muslims around the world are desperately trying to separate their version of Islam from the terrorist version shown in the media. Prior to that, Christianity was facing similar attacks with reports of people destroying abortion clinics and killing adulterers. Protestants fighting against Catholics, Similar to how Sunnis are fighting against Shias - one group claiming to be superior to the other and more in line with the "original". And Judaism has always been mocked and everyone knows about conspiracy theories involving them -.- Again, the Israeli Jews claim to be superior to non-Israeli jews. There is clearly a pattern here..

If there is law put in to safeguard a particular group who is in recent times being attacked, lets appreciate it. If you're not in their shoes, you cannot imagine what is happening to them. Can we please unite together as a group rather than draw lines between ourselves and blame one other? Neither one of us is superior to another.
 





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#32
it is merely a motion calling on the government to condemn islamaphobia and all forms of systemic racism and religious discrimination"
You have to have a screw loose to have a problem with this and realise it obviously does include anti-semitism.

@Thunderian @manama
The hadith of the Prophet SAW about jews actually does apply to the modern state of Israel but before I get to that I want to make my own position clear.
As I believe in the Quran aswell as the Bible I do strongly believe the 'holy land' belongs to the israelites/jews because God promised it to them and has also made it clear they'll return there one day. I don't believe there is such a thing as a 'Palestinian'
think about it
who were the phillistines? they were the enemy. The romans purposely wanted to discredit God's religion so they named the land Palestine. By the time muslims appeared, the land had been called Palestine for a long time and muslims simply just adopted the name, Filastin.
Huge irony when you consider the David vs Goliath/stone throwing incident and then see how it has turned around where the 'phillistines' are now the believers and the ones resorting to throwing stones.This turn in events is very important in the context of that hadith too which i'll eventually get to.
My religious position is anti-israel too..but again i'll get back to that. From a secular pov however i believe in a 2-state solution and jews still deserve a homeland there on the basis of their ancestral ties.

Surah 17 in the Quran is called al-isra (referring to the night journey of the Prophet SAW to Jerusalem) but it is also called 'Bani Israel'.
In it God reminds the jews of their past, when they became 'arrogant/sinful' and were subsequently kicked out of Jerusalem by Babylon. Then God granted them return (he made them a nation again..and this is an important part of the viewpoint i'm going to get to).
Then it happened again when the Romans invaded, destroyed the city and the temple and killed over 1 million jews (in 70AD, that is some brutal!!).
Yet this was God's punishment..and Jesus endorsed it.

@Thunderian you realise your religion is not morally better in this case. :)

6 Then did We grant you the Return as against them: We gave you increase in resources and sons, and made you the more numerous in man-power.
7 If ye did well, ye did well for yourselves; if ye did evil, (ye did it) against yourselves. So when the second of the warnings came to pass, (We permitted your enemies) to disfigure your faces, and to enter your Temple as they had entered it before, and to visit with destruction all that fell into their power.
8 It may be that your Lord may (yet) show Mercy unto you; but if ye revert (to your sins), We shall revert (to Our punishments): And we have made Hell a prison for those who reject (all Faith).



Also @manama there is verse 104 in this chapter and i strongly believe muslims have deliberately and deceitfully changed it's meaning.

104 And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, "Dwell securely in the land (of promise)": but when the second of the warnings came to pass, We gathered you together in a mingled crowd.

this is the Abdullah yusuf Ali translation
but this is how it should read

104And We said unto the Children of Israel after him: Dwell in the land;
but when the promise of the Hereafter cometh to pass We shall bring you as a crowd gathered out of various nations.
This is the pickthal translation but it is still not good enough
Basically this is the end times promise of the messianic zion that was promised in the bible. So it is true that one day God will make Israel a nation again and gather the remnant of jews and lost tribes of israel back to the land.
For me what matters here is, clearly at some point in time the 'palestinians' would not be living there. It was never promised to them.

There was always the possibility of God making the jews a nation again ie having Mercy on them
BUT again God's punishment would apply if they were sinful.

Now @Thunderian that hadith mentions muslims killing jews....and jews hiding behind stones and trees.
You realise this is an old testament theme?

Jeremiah 2
26 “As the thief is ashamed when he is found, so is the house of Israel ashamed—they, their kings, their princes, and their priests and their prophets,
27 saying to a stock, ‘Thou art my father,’ and to a stone, ‘Thou hast brought me forth.’ For they have turned their back unto Me, and not their face; but in the time of their trouble they will say, ‘Arise, and save us!’

Jeremiah 3
6 The Lord said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king: “Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? She hath gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot.
7 And I said after she had done all these things, ‘Return thou unto Me.’ But she returned not, and her treacherous sister Judah saw it.
8 And I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
9 And it came to pass, because she made so light of her whoredom, that she defiled the land and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.


maybe you already know where i'm about to go with this...but before I do, more on this 'stones and themes' topic, what exactly does it refer to?
idolatory?
but in what sense?
 





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#33
I looked for answers in the bible once. I obviously connect this to the 'whore of babylon' prophecy in the bible and it's destruction actually coincides with the hadith in question.

The book of Habakkuk is very important. It foretold the destruction of ancient babylon (meaning it contains signs and deeper meaning of the identity of mystery babylon)

very important read
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Habakkuk+2&version=NIV

“‘Woe to him who piles up stolen goods
and makes himself wealthy by extortion!

How long must this go on?’
7 Will not your creditors suddenly arise?
Will they not wake up and make you tremble?
Then you will become their prey.
8 Because you have plundered many nations,
the peoples who are left will plunder you.
For you have shed human blood;
you have destroyed lands and cities and everyone in them.



^^
context
it was referring to the system of usury.

buit what is this?

You have plotted the ruin of many peoples,

shaming your own house and forfeiting your life.
11 The stones of the wall will cry out,
and the beams of the woodwork will echo it.
12 “Woe to him who builds a city with bloodshed
and establishes a town by injustice!

Now you know about the sins of the whore of baylon in Revelation 17/18

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+18&version=ESV

For all nations have drunka]">[a]
the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality,
and the kings of the earth have committed immorality with her,
and the merchants of the earth have grown rich from the power of her luxurious living.”


of course I believe this is referring to the network of jewish people who pretty much have made their wealth through usury (ie the rothschilds/rockerfellers and so forth ie the BANKERS) they are the Chaldeans of the modern age.
Who controls the hollywood, porn, music, the media and the governments? On this forum people talk about the occult connections in hollywood...but who is behind it?
who are the globalists intent on establishing a one world government? (the whore sits on the beast right?)

And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints,
who is this?
don't tell me it's the catholic church, it isn't and we all know it. Jesus specifically accused the jews of this when he said
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you
also the wood and stones is connected with the stoning and crucifixion (of the Prophets and saints).
but even still, there is more

Zechariah 5
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=zechariah+5&version=ESV
For everyone who steals shall be cleaned out according to what is on one side, and everyone who swears falselyb]"> shall be cleaned out according to what is on the other side.
4 I will send it out, declares the Lord of hosts, and it shall enter the house of the thief, and the house of him who swears falsely by my name. And it shall remain in his house and consume it, both timber and stones.


what is this referring to?
who is the thief and the one who swears falsely?
it refers to the system of usury ie the money lender and the one who makes the pledge (ie mortgages/loans).
this is a Curse
and then it tells us

5 Then the angel who talked with me came forward and said to me, “Lift your eyes and see what this is that is going out.” 6 And I said, “What is it?” He said, “This is the basketc]">[c] that is going out.” And he said, “This is their iniquityd]">[d] in all the land.” 7 And behold, the leaden cover was lifted, and there was a woman sitting in the basket! 8 And he said, “This is Wickedness.” And he thrust her back into the basket, and thrust down the leaden weight on its opening.
9 Then I lifted my eyes and saw, and behold, two women coming forward! The wind was in their wings. They had wings like the wings of a stork, and they lifted up the basket between earth and heaven. 10 Then I said to the angel who talked with me, “Where are they taking the basket?” 11 He said to me, “To the land of Shinar, to build a house for it. And when this is prepared, they will set the basket down there on its base.”


The woman sitting in the basket symbolises the jewish nation.


so longgg story short
1000%
the stones and trees/wood/stocks/timber are symbolic of the jewish nation, their idolatory and their practice of usury which they learnt ever since they were in exile in Babylon.
This is connected with adultery/whoredom which again is mentioned in throughout these quotes
but why?

it's because worldly wealth represents idolatory. You know God didn't like it when the jews worshiped false gods or sought alliances with other nations...God wanted them to believe in Him. He didn't merely punish them a small amount, He caused their city to be destroyed, hundreds of thousands to over a million jews were killed, the temple was destroyed and they were exiled.

Now ask yourself
how has the modern state of israel been established, backed and protected?
wealth...technology...alliances (ie with america/the west).
the irony is despite all of this most christians somehow are deluded enough to think these prophecies do not refer to israel but instead refer to the vatican and some even think it refers to islam LOL
They also think GOD is the one supporting israel
even though messianic zion/israel is a land without borders and without weapons, protected by God.

Make no mistake, you will be judged on this by God one day...
you know full well the jews control the money, your entertainment, your news and your government etc there is no excuse to pretend.
the Holocaust happened so we're not' supposed' to say this but it is as plain as day.
We all know it.
 





Last edited:

Lisa

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#34
I looked for answers in the bible once. I obviously connect this to the 'whore of babylon' prophecy in the bible and it's destruction actually coincides with the hadith in question.

The book of Habakkuk is very important. It foretold the destruction of ancient babylon (meaning it contains signs and deeper meaning of the identity of mystery babylon)

very important read
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Habakkuk+2&version=NIV

“‘Woe to him who piles up stolen goods
and makes himself wealthy by extortion!

How long must this go on?’
7 Will not your creditors suddenly arise?
Will they not wake up and make you tremble?
Then you will become their prey.
8 Because you have plundered many nations,
the peoples who are left will plunder you.
For you have shed human blood;
you have destroyed lands and cities and everyone in them.



^^
context
it was referring to the system of usury.

buit what is this?

You have plotted the ruin of many peoples,

shaming your own house and forfeiting your life.
11 The stones of the wall will cry out,
and the beams of the woodwork will echo it.
12 “Woe to him who builds a city with bloodshed
and establishes a town by injustice!

Now you know about the sins of the whore of baylon in Revelation 17/18

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+18&version=ESV

For all nations have drunka]">[a]
the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality,
and the kings of the earth have committed immorality with her,
and the merchants of the earth have grown rich from the power of her luxurious living.”


of course I believe this is referring to the network of jewish people who pretty much have made their wealth through usury (ie the rothschilds/rockerfellers and so forth ie the BANKERS) they are the Chaldeans of the modern age.
Who controls the hollywood, porn, music, the media and the governments? On this forum people talk about the occult connections in hollywood...but who is behind it?
who are the globalists intent on establishing a one world government? (the whore sits on the beast right?)

And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints,
who is this?
don't tell me it's the catholic church, it isn't and we all know it. Jesus specifically accused the jews of this when he said
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you
also the wood and stones is connected with the stoning and crucifixion (of the Prophets and saints).
but even still, there is more

Zechariah 5
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=zechariah+5&version=ESV
For everyone who steals shall be cleaned out according to what is on one side, and everyone who swears falselyb]"> shall be cleaned out according to what is on the other side.
4 I will send it out, declares the Lord of hosts, and it shall enter the house of the thief, and the house of him who swears falsely by my name. And it shall remain in his house and consume it, both timber and stones.


what is this referring to?
who is the thief and the one who swears falsely?
it refers to the system of usury ie the money lender and the one who makes the pledge (ie mortgages/loans).
this is a Curse
and then it tells us

5 Then the angel who talked with me came forward and said to me, “Lift your eyes and see what this is that is going out.” 6 And I said, “What is it?” He said, “This is the basketc]">[c] that is going out.” And he said, “This is their iniquityd]">[d] in all the land.” 7 And behold, the leaden cover was lifted, and there was a woman sitting in the basket! 8 And he said, “This is Wickedness.” And he thrust her back into the basket, and thrust down the leaden weight on its opening.
9 Then I lifted my eyes and saw, and behold, two women coming forward! The wind was in their wings. They had wings like the wings of a stork, and they lifted up the basket between earth and heaven. 10 Then I said to the angel who talked with me, “Where are they taking the basket?” 11 He said to me, “To the land of Shinar, to build a house for it. And when this is prepared, they will set the basket down there on its base.”


The woman sitting in the basket symbolises the jewish nation.


so longgg story short
1000%
the stones and trees/wood/stocks/timber are symbolic of the jewish nation, their idolatory and their practice of usury which they learnt ever since they were in exile in Babylon.
This is connected with adultery/whoredom which again is mentioned in throughout these quotes
but why?

it's because worldly wealth represents idolatory. You know God didn't like it when the jews worshiped false gods or sought alliances with other nations...God wanted them to believe in Him. He didn't merely punish them a small amount, He caused their city to be destroyed, hundreds of thousands to over a million jews were killed, the temple was destroyed and they were exiled.

Now ask yourself
how has the modern state of israel been established, backed and protected?
wealth...technology...alliances (ie with america/the west).
the irony is despite all of this most christians somehow are deluded enough to think these prophecies do not refer to israel but instead refer to the vatican and some even think it refers to islam LOL
They also think GOD is the one supporting israel
even though messianic zion/israel is a land without borders and without weapons, protected by God.

Make no mistake, you will be judged on this by God one day...
you know full well the jews control the money, your entertainment, your news and your government etc there is no excuse to pretend.
the Holocaust happened so we're not' supposed' to say this but it is as plain as day.
We all know it.
I do think God brought Israel back into her land. He did make an everlasting covenant that includes the land. That Israel will also be unbelieving when He brings them back is also tied up in the gentiles believing in Jesus. Paul says that God isn't done with Israel but He is offering salvation to the gentiles first and when the time of the gentiles is fulfilled, He will focus on His chosen people again. That they are in their land is also exciting since some of them are also talking about building their temple and that is soooo close to their actually trying to make it a reality. And the reason that's exciting is because when its built that will be prophecy fulfilled and we shall soon see Christ again. Of course that will be some very tough times...and even saying tough times is downplaying what that time will truly be like....
 





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#35
Also, Hadiths should be taken with a grain of salt because they were compiled over 200 years after the death of the Prophet.
I have never heard a Muslim say anything like this. I don't want to get into a discussion on Islam on this thread, but I was under the impression that the Quran can't be understood properly without hadith.
 





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#36
it is merely a motion calling on the government to condemn islamaphobia and all forms of systemic racism and religious discrimination"
You have to have a screw loose to have a problem with this and realise it obviously does include anti-semitism.
As I said, racism and religious discrimination are already covered by Canada's laws and constitution. This motion singles out Islamophobia without defining what it is, even though it is Jews who are the target of much more racism and hate crimes than Muslims.

The problem with this is that no determination has been made as to what constitutes Islamophobia. What if a motion was passed that said specifically that Judeophobia was to be condemned, when Muslims were the targets of hate crimes twice as often as Jews? What if the term Judeophobia was left undefined, and that left the door open for mere criticism of Israel to be classed as Judeophobia, and subject to prosecution under Canada's criminal code? Would you be comfortable with that?
 





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#37
For the record, I would be against this motion of it was singling out Judeophobia just as much as I am against it because it singles out Islamophobia. It's an awful piece of governing by a supposedly secular country.
 





Lisa

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#38
For the record, I would be against this motion of it was singling out Judeophobia just as much as I am against it because it singles out Islamophobia. It's an awful piece of governing by a supposedly secular country.
I was reading a blog and that person says that citizenry (meaning Canadians) to believe sharia law courts are coming soon. What do you think about that, would you agree?
 





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#39
I have never heard a Muslim say anything like this. I don't want to get into a discussion on Islam on this thread, but I was under the impression that the Quran can't be understood properly without hadith.
Not necessarily. It's an interesting topic and deserves a thread of its own so I'll save it for a later time.

As to this new law I actually agree with you and that this is merely another ploy to restrict the ability to have meaningful discussions kind of like what the LGBT are trying to do with these ridiculous gender pro-noun laws.
 





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#40
@Lisa you haven't read what I wrote at all clearly.
You don't need to sell me gods
Promise because I already mentioned that.

There is a period before the messianic times when Jerusalem will change considered "like sodom and Egypt" and now is that time

In fact when you really think about it
Sodom was destroyed by Rocks and Egypt was destroyed by the staff of Moses.
But I doubt you are intelligent enough to understand this.