Can meaning exist without God?

[Violette]

If there’s no God and we’re all just here by chance in a finite universe with death patiently waiting to claim us all, then wouldn't life be meaningless? You’d gain nothing and lose everything. I hope you value your existence as more than an accidental byproduct of nature.

 

[Illuminized]

Pretty much all the dominating religions portray a bleak outlook of life, a life without purpose, including Christianity. It does not end with death but it should also not end with the afterlife. The idea of permanently staying in an otherworldly paradise, doing nothing but singing songs and having a good time, defies all occurrences in Nature. Everyone does something to get something. Work, the driving force always has been work. Some might bring up the passages about this world being in a fallen, imperfect state and that before the fall of man, this earth reflected heaven. These people must explain how the movement of the planets were affected by this, because from what I can tell, the planets still revolve around the sun in a rather orderly manner, giving no indication of evil or "sin". The passages only say that satan rules over this earth, it says nothing of other worlds, which are still under god's dominion. If this law of harmony prevails in outer space (which has been said to be fit as a dwelling place for god and god is certainly not imperfect), then why shouldn't it apply to the heavenly paradise? It follows that even in heaven, there will be much work to do. It won't merely be a life of indolence, which would actually be defying the "will of god".

 

[mecca]

Atheists find meaning in their lives in every way except through religion or belief in God.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Pretty much all the dominating religions portray a bleak outlook of life, a life without purpose, including Christianity. It does not end with death but it should also not end with the afterlife. The idea of permanently staying in an otherworldly paradise, doing nothing but singing songs and having a good time, defies all occurrences in Nature. Everyone does something to get something. Work, the driving force always has been work. Some might bring up the passages about this world being in a fallen, imperfect state and that before the fall of man, this earth reflected heaven. These people must explain how the movement of the planets were affected by this, because from what I can tell, the planets still revolve around the sun in a rather orderly manner, giving no indication of evil or "sin". The passages only say that satan rules over this earth, it says nothing of other worlds, which are still under god's dominion. If this law of harmony prevails in outer space (which has been said to be fit as a dwelling place for god and god is certainly not imperfect), then why shouldn't it apply to the heavenly paradise? It follows that even in heaven, there will be much work to do. It won't merely be a life of indolence, which would actually be defying the "will of god".

Platonic ideas held that the physical was bad and only spirit was good. On the other hand, the Bible clearly states that one day there will be a new Heaven and a New Earth...

It seems that Gods plan in redemption is to restore what was originally created. When Jesus had resurrected he was able both to appear from nowhere apparently yet eat with the disciples. Perhaps these days a quantum physicist would say he was a multidimensional being.

The question is - do you enjoy a starter any less at a restaurant for knowing that a main course is coming?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Atheists find meaning in their lives in every way except through religion or belief in God.

Providing they don't ask too many questions of the universe they rub along fairly well as life contains so many distractions.

What of the poor atheist thinkers though - take Mark Twain, a very humorous man in his youth,

A myriad of men are born; they labor and sweat and struggle for bread; they squabble and scold and fight; they scramble for little mean advantages over each other. Age creeps upon them; infirmities follow; shames and humiliations bring down their prides and their vanities. Those they love are taken from them and the joy of life is turned to aching grief. The burden of pain, care, misery, grows heavier year by year. At length ambition is dead; pride is dead; vanity is dead; longing for release is in their place. It comes at last - the only unpoisoned gift ever had for them - and they vanish from a world where they were of no consequence; where they achieved nothing; where they were a mistake and a failure and a foolishness; where they have left no sign that have existed - a world which will lament them a day and forget them forever. Then another myriad takes their place and copies all they did and goes along the same profitless road and vanishes as they vanished - to make room for another and another and a million other myriads to follow the same arid path through the same desert and accomplish what the first myriad and all the myriads that came after it accomplished - nothing!​

​

Mark Twain, The Autobiography of Mark Twain

Contrast this - one quote is from T.B. Larimore, a Christian educator and gospel preacher, written in his later years:

My faith has never been stronger; my hope has never been brighter; my head has never been clearer; my heart has never been calmer; my life has never been purer. I love all; I hate none. My love for some lifts my soul into the realm of the sublime. I am willing to die today; I am willing to live a thousand years, to tell the old, old story of Jesus and his love. My friends are dearer to me; association with them is sweeter to me; my sympathy for suffering souls is stronger; my love for all the pure, the true, the beautiful, the good, and the sublime—from the bud, the blossom, the babe, up to Him from whom all blessings flow—is truer, tenderer, sweeter, than ever before…. I sleep soundly, dream sweetly, and “rejoice evermore.” “The word” is sweeter and stronger to me than ever before. O it is delightful to love and be loved, and to do whatsoever duty demands! My vanity is all gone. What the people say does not bother me. I’ll never waver, but always to the right be true.​

 

[Etagloc]

Platonic ideas held that the physical was bad and only spirit was good. On the other hand, the Bible clearly states that one day there will be a new Heaven and a New Earth...

It seems that Gods plan in redemption is to restore what was originally created. When Jesus had resurrected he was able both to appear from nowhere apparently yet eat with the disciples. Perhaps these days a quantum physicist would say he was a multidimensional being.

The question is - do you enjoy a starter any less at a restaurant for knowing that a main course is coming?

Platonism is theistic. Plato was definitely not an athiest. He lived before Christianity but.... his philosophy I think is religious.

 

[Vytas]

If there’s no God and we’re all just here by chance in a finite universe with death patiently waiting to claim us all, then wouldn't life be meaningless? You’d gain nothing and lose everything. I hope you value your existence as more than an accidental byproduct of nature.

I found out that on this topic atheist are like day and night on internet and in real life. Online they come up with some ideas, philosophical approach and what not. And when you ask them eye to eye, they don't want to talk, think or hear anything about it...They have no meaning and deal with it by do not thinking about future. Concentrating they thoughts and efforts on making their life as materially comfortable as possible...
Bible explains it so well

Mat 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
Mat 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
Mat 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

 

[Helioform]

I guess it just depends on your definition of God.

If you see God as an anthropomorphic being (as in the Bible), then you can relate to him/her more easily and your life is more "meaningful" I suppose.

But if you see God just as an emanation of intelligence that oversees the creation of stars, galaxies, planets and living organisms, then you can always relate to that entity but in a more subtle way. Meaning becomes just a matter of acknowledging that everything is created for a reason, but without any direct connection to that creator. That leaves you the freedom of taking control of your life without having to wait for a God to tell you what to do.

Some say that "God" as understood by most people, was just a dream of good government. Because the human being often worships, it needs some kind of hierarchical structure to be assimilated in and the meaning is found in that.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Platonism is theistic. Plato was definitely not an athiest. He lived before Christianity but.... his philosophy I think is religious.

Hi Etagloc, I know Plato was theistic - I didn't cite him as an example of atheism, just confused theism.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

ah... gotcha. Thanks for clarifying. Maybe I read your post too quickly lol.

Or maybe I wrote it too quickly ;-)

 

[Violette]

Pretty much all the dominating religions portray a bleak outlook of life, a life without purpose, including Christianity. It does not end with death but it should also not end with the afterlife. The idea of permanently staying in an otherworldly paradise, doing nothing but singing songs and having a good time, defies all occurrences in Nature. Everyone does something to get something. Work, the driving force always has been work. Some might bring up the passages about this world being in a fallen, imperfect state and that before the fall of man, this earth reflected heaven. These people must explain how the movement of the planets were affected by this, because from what I can tell, the planets still revolve around the sun in a rather orderly manner, giving no indication of evil or "sin". The passages only say that satan rules over this earth, it says nothing of other worlds, which are still under god's dominion. If this law of harmony prevails in outer space (which has been said to be fit as a dwelling place for god and god is certainly not imperfect), then why shouldn't it apply to the heavenly paradise? It follows that even in heaven, there will be much work to do. It won't merely be a life of indolence, which would actually be defying the "will of god".

Religions and world views that include a creator do have a life with purpose. Life without God is just random chances. Even coincidences are pretty strange without God. I’m sure whatever occurs in the spiritual world isn’t limited by the laws of nature that apply here in this world. The movement of the earth didn’t change after the fall of man so I’m not really following you...? I agree, there will be work to do in heaven. We will serve Him and we will no longer suffer from sin.

 

[Violette]

Atheists find meaning in their lives in every way except through religion or belief in God.

How is that? They gain nothing and lose everything after death. If nothing exists after the universe is gone then everything in this life ultimately has no meaning or value. The universe will end eventually, it’s finite.

 

[Violette]

I found out that on this topic atheist are like day and night on internet and in real life. Online they come up with some ideas, philosophical approach and what not. And when you ask them eye to eye, they don't want to talk, think or hear anything about it...They have no meaning and deal with it by do not thinking about future. Concentrating they thoughts and efforts on making their life as materially comfortable as possible...
Bible explains it so well

Mat 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
Mat 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
Mat 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

“Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.”-
Arthur C. Clarke. Those verses are perfect, thank you

 

[Violette]

I guess it just depends on your definition of God.

If you see God as an anthropomorphic being (as in the Bible), then you can relate to him/her more easily and your life is more "meaningful" I suppose.

But if you see God just as an emanation of intelligence that oversees the creation of stars, galaxies, planets and living organisms, then you can always relate to that entity but in a more subtle way. Meaning becomes just a matter of acknowledging that everything is created for a reason, but without any direct connection to that creator. That leaves you the freedom of taking control of your life without having to wait for a God to tell you what to do.

Some say that "God" as understood by most people, was just a dream of good government. Because the human being often worships, it needs some kind of hierarchical structure to be assimilated in and the meaning is found in that.

I can respect that. Do you view God as an impersonal force that connects the world?

 

[Helioform]

I can respect that. Do you view God as an impersonal force that connects the world?

Yes mostly. I view the Gods of the various religions as Demi-Gods, or Avatars, who have created life on this Earth. But not necessarily on other planets.

 

[Kung Fu]

Yes mostly. I view the Gods of the various religions as Demi-Gods, or Avatars, who have created life on this Earth. But not necessarily on other planets.

That's interesting what you're saying. How would you interpret the verses below, particularly the part on bold?

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds, The Beneficent, the Merciful. Master of the Day of Judgment, Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help. Show us the straight path, The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.

Quran 1: 1-7

 

[Helioform]

That's interesting what you're saying. How would you interpret the verses below, particularly the part on bold?

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds, The Beneficent, the Merciful. Master of the Day of Judgment, Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help. Show us the straight path, The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.

Quran 1: 1-7

The more I know about Islam the more I find it fascinating...I suppose that would suggest Allah created life on many planets. A bit like the Bible's "In my father's house there are many mansions."

 

[Violette]

Yes mostly. I view the Gods of the various religions as Demi-Gods, or Avatars, who have created life on this Earth. But not necessarily on other planets.

Interesting, when I read your original post the first thing that came to mind was the movie Avatar. It’s a pretty vivid and brilliant representation of pantheism.

 

[Helioform]

Interesting, when I read your original post the first thing that came to mind was the movie Avatar. It’s a pretty vivid and brilliant representation of pantheism.

I've never seen that movie but I've heard it was probably Cameron's best one. An Avatar is a Hindu concept (probably the oldest religion in the world), and there are verses in Vedic scripture that apparently predict the coming of various religious figures, including Jesus. Some say that Jesus was an Avatar, although it conflicts somewhat with the Hindu concept.

 

[Kung Fu]

The more I know about Islam the more I find it fascinating...I suppose that would suggest Allah created life on many planets. A bit like the Bible's "In my father's house there are many mansions."

What's funny is that before I became a Muslim I was talking to this Muslim dude about life on other planets. I thought, him being a Muslim and all, he would deny the possibility of life on other planets but I was wrong. The verse I posted is very direct and is the second verse of the first chapter. I say this because atheists and people who are uninformed tend to believe that us Muslims don't believe in aliens but that simply isn't so.