BTS/KPOP Shipper Mentality

AndrAt3A

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I’m sorry but do you not understand? BTS may be marketed as a close brotherhood but the Jonas Brothers are actual brothers? In what world would skinship between them be acceptable? That would be incestuous! Transgenderism isn’t acceptable to you but incest would be?
I live in the West - the U.K.to be more precise! I can tell you that Harry Styles’ relationship with Caroline Flack was not well received. Yes, he was above the age of sexual consent which is 16, but he fell into the grey area between sexual consent and adulthood. He was 17 and she was 14 years older than him. Lots of people thought that was wrong. I don’t really have an opinion either way about it and don’t want to drag it all up, given as the female celebrity involved recently committed suicide. Don’t be mistaken however, that people in the west found it acceptable.
As regards the Jonas brothers and their purity rings. They have quite openly talked about the fact that wearing them was part of a trend at the time. They came from religious backgrounds and at the time they wore them, they truly believed they would wait for the right time to have sex. As they got older and started dating, they realised that was no longer how they felt, so they removed the rings. That is their choice and their right. They said to continue wearing them was a lie because it wasn’t who they were anymore.
I understand that bts are not actual brothers and the Jonas brothers are. I do not condone incest, my point was just that. While the kpop companys promote members as brothers, then turn around and make them do skinship and other borderline sexual things to eachother to try and normalize it. I know you dont agree with a lot of what it talked about on this forums and you take things as face value
ie: if lisa says she is a woman-then I believe she is a woman, no need to speculate further-
But you have to see my point on how the shipping material that the companys make idols do is wrong. Not just a culture difference, if we have everyday citizens say that they do not touch other males the same way idols do.
This is an example that would be taken as something else in western cultures.

Can we come to a agree to disagree or something.? You have to at least see my points even if you don't agree with them
 






Hon33

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Dont waste your time my friend, we all know that other user
Always turning a blind eye everytime someone post proof about kpop idols criminal behavior

Drunk driving, prostitution, adiction to heroin. You name it!!! and you will find kpop idols guilty of it
take a look at Big Bang....with one of the members even involved on a prostitution ring....that's enough evidence to show kpop is not innocent at all. The image idols show is fake and forced.

But behind the scenes they are not clean.....the story has been confirmed a million times with all the illegal scandals involving these people. After the kpop groups lose popularity they get exposed, and thats the reality of it

Those who want to remain blind and living in the "kpop unicorn world" can stay that way.
it's not our problem and they already made their decision. ;)
You're absolutely right that Kpop idols can be as guilty of those things as anyone else! I have always said that.
No one lives in a unicorn world.
What you are saying is so hypocritical! Someone posted here saying that One Direction were cute boys, perfect boyfriends etc. In reality, they were the complete opposite. She thinks they were branded in a certain way and they weren’t. She was wrong about them but no one is calling her out. I know she was wrong because I live in the country they were promoted in. The evidence, was posted all over the tabloids, almost every day of the week. They gave interviews where they admitted to their behaviours etc, etc, etc.
Your friend who wrote this about One Direction, got it wrong. Just like in another thread where she accused someone of treating his wife so badly she committed suicide - only she got the wrong person!
I’m supposed to sit back and say nothing when I know the real truth to be different than it actually was.
Where things are substantiated - they are absolutely true. However, just because a handful of idols do wrong, doesn’t mean they all do. It certainly doesn’t mean they are gay, transgender, involved with the occult or anything else.
 






Hon33

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Lol you love to argue.
You know nothing about me to assume I don't know how different the cultures are. In fact, my culture is similar to theirs.
Yes, Disney stars and Jonas Brothers start of squeaky clean and break away from that after, who denied that?
I really don't understand why you're going on about this...Disney/teenage boy groups are marketed as wholesome that's not even a secret. Them breaking away from it is a different story. Kpop groups are also marketed as wholesome (also not a secret) but it's done on a whole new level. Culture plays a very small role, as you've read on the site many things kpop idols do go against their culture. I know you believe the wholesomeness in entertainment is all real so I won't bother anymore.

Anyway, keep believing the media and the lies they feed you.
Disney promote their stars as clean because they are a) marketing them towards children and b) the stars are very young themselves?
I love to argue?
I’m not the one following you all over this board, picking fights with you? If you didn’t keep saying stupid things to me, I wouldn’t have to keep answering.
 






Hon33

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I understand that bts are not actual brothers and the Jonas brothers are. I do not condone incest, my point was just that. While the kpop companys promote members as brothers, then turn around and make them do skinship and other borderline sexual things to eachother to try and normalize it. I know you dont agree with a lot of what it talked about on this forums and you take things as face value
ie: if lisa says she is a woman-then I believe she is a woman, no need to speculate further-
But you have to see my point on how the shipping material that the companys make idols do is wrong. Not just a culture difference, if we have everyday citizens say that they do not touch other males the same way idols do.
This is an example that would be taken as something else in western cultures.

Can we come to a agree to disagree or something.? You have to at least see my points even if you don't agree with them
Yes, we can agree to disagree. Of course, we can. You are entitled to your opinion.
About BTS though. I don’t know where in the world you are from, so I don’t know where your coming from on this whole brothers thing. The Jonas brothers are real brothers, so the kind of fan service etc that Kpop idols do would be weird. BTS maybe promote as a “brotherhood” - I don’t really like them that much, so I know little about them. In that sense of the word, brotherhood means something different. It refers to a really deep friendship. I can’t talk about what BTS do on stage a lot because I don’t know them. I understand though, that some of the stuff Kpop groups do can seem a little weird.
You have to understand though, that a lot of the time, the shipping comes from fans. I don’t know why they do it but they do. It’s not just Kpop though. As I said, it happened in groups like One Direction too. It’s not confined to Kpop, which is the argument I was trying to make.
I’m not really sure that Western cultures see it the same way, as other cultures. The attitude of many young people here would be tgst it doesn’t matter whether they are gay or not. A lot of young people here believe it is wrong to assume someone’s sexuality so they really pay that much attention to skinship, shipping and fan service. They don’t assume anything from it. It just is what it is.
Maybe as people speculate here, they are desensitised to it. Maybe it’s just not that important to them - for them, a person is more than their gender or sexuality or their race or religion.
As a Christian, I see a lot of people who are angry at that attitude. They think that young people are immoral or wrong for thinking that. In this life though, the only actions you have to account for are your own. God set us several rules to live by - spread his word and love each other. By showing tolerance to other people even if you don’t agree with their lifestyle, you are doing what we were asked to do.
By showing love and understanding to people who are different from you, you are showing God’s love and spreading his word. If you feel disdain for them, it only harms you.
 






Hon33

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One ship that weirds me out is NCT 127's Yuta and Mark. I'm not sure why but it doesnt sit right with me.
Why would it weird you out any more than any other ship?
The reason people ship them is because they are very good friends. They have both spoken about it. Yuta has a very playful nature and I’m guessing he plays up to it a little. He tends to become very attached to individual members. It’s probably just the way he is. He has said that Mark understands how lonely he becomes living apart from his family and that’s why they get on well.
 






tmbrown3

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Why would it weird you out any more than any other ship?
The reason people ship them is because they are very good friends. They have both spoken about it. Yuta has a very playful nature and I’m guessing he plays up to it a little. He tends to become very attached to individual members. It’s probably just the way he is. He has said that Mark understands how lonely he becomes living apart from his family and that’s why they get on well.
They all bother me, the type of attachment yuta has to mark just rubs me the wrong way. Almost like an abuse victim/mentally ill person clinging to a person. But i do remember there being evidence or something of Yuta not mentally sound so *shrug*. Taeyeon from GG reminds me of that too. But they do belong to SM and we all see how much SM "cares" about mental health.
 






sadtruth

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One ship that weirds me out is NCT 127's Yuta and Mark. I'm not sure why but it doesnt sit right with me.
Mark seems uncomfortable with shipping in general. I saw a vid where someone (sorry I can't remember his name) kept trying to kiss Mark and Mark was screaming and dodging him. It's probably coz he's from America and not into boys being touchy with him. It'll be interesting to see if they change him.
 






tmbrown3

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Mark seems uncomfortable with shipping in general. I saw a vid where someone (sorry I can't remember his name) kept trying to kiss Mark and Mark was screaming and dodging him. It's probably coz he's from America and not into boys being touchy with him. It'll be interesting to see if they change him.
He seems to be somewhat ok with Yuta being clingy/overly touchy although he does do the nervous laugh a little.
 






Hon33

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Mark seems uncomfortable with shipping in general. I saw a vid where someone (sorry I can't remember his name) kept trying to kiss Mark and Mark was screaming and dodging him. It's probably coz he's from America and not into boys being touchy with him. It'll be interesting to see if they change him.
You are right. Mark does seem uncomfortable with it usually. However, he doesn’t seem as bothered about Yuta because I think they have a very close friendship. He is also very close with Jungwoo.
 






sadtruth

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He seems to be somewhat ok with Yuta being clingy/overly touchy although he does do the nervous laugh a little.
Yeah, he has to be, it's part of his job and he's surrounded by boys who are trying to touch him...Sounds wrong but that's what's happening. Naturally, even if you're not into it, you'd gravitate to the ones you're least uncomfortable with and soon you'll get used to it. They've been practising outside of what we see so we don't really know exactly what's going on...Maybe he knows Yuta won't take it too far. I do feel bad for him because he clearly doesn't like it. He probably didn't know acting gay was part of kpop and now he has no choice but to go along with it.
 






Hon33

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Yeah, he has to be, it's part of his job and he's surrounded by boys who are trying to touch him...Sounds wrong but that's what's happening. Naturally, even if you're not into it, you'd gravitate to the ones you're least uncomfortable with and soon you'll get used to it. They've been practising outside of what we see so we don't really know exactly what's going on...Maybe he knows Yuta won't take it too far. I do feel bad for him because he clearly doesn't like it. He probably didn't know acting gay was part of kpop and now he has no choice but to go along with it.
Wow, you’ve got some very extreme views. So, let’s just double check what you’re saying. Mark has to be okay with Yuta touching him because he is surrounded by gay boys who spend their time running around trying to touch each other. What kind of boys do you know? Do all the straight boys you know run around trying to touch girls? Just because someone is gay doesn’t make them a sexual predator.
Yuta is one of the most masculine guys in NCT. The other members describe him as very pure minded and kind. He has sisters and I’ve seen several interviews where he is quite outspoken on gender equality and judging girls on their looks etc.
He has said Mark is his best friend and he has said how deeply he feels about him. There really is nothing wrong with that. Hugging a friend does not make you gay. Yes, he is quite clingy with him but he says that Mark understands how much he misses his family because he misses his too. Mark actually seems really comfortable right Yuta but he does with Johnny and a few others too.
Stop making things sexual, which aren’t!
 






sadtruth

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Wow, you’ve got some very extreme views. So, let’s just double check what you’re saying. Mark has to be okay with Yuta touching him because he is surrounded by gay boys who spend their time running around trying to touch each other. What kind of boys do you know? Do all the straight boys you know run around trying to touch girls? Just because someone is gay doesn’t make them a sexual predator.
Yuta is one of the most masculine guys in NCT. The other members describe him as very pure minded and kind. He has sisters and I’ve seen several interviews where he is quite outspoken on gender equality and judging girls on their looks etc.
He has said Mark is his best friend and he has said how deeply he feels about him. There really is nothing wrong with that. Hugging a friend does not make you gay. Yes, he is quite clingy with him but he says that Mark understands how much he misses his family because he misses his too. Mark actually seems really comfortable right Yuta but he does with Johnny and a few others too.
Stop making things sexual, which aren’t!
Omg
You're doube checking what I said by coming up with a story of your own? Wtf?!?!? I said boys go around touching girls and boys who are gay are predators? That’s what YOUR thinking process is like. That’s what YOU took from my reply.
That's not what I said. You've really got some sort of issue where you can't put things together. You're twisting and assuming things once again and I'm not going to constantly explain myself to you.
I don't want to talk to you so stop replying to me!
 






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Hon33

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Omg
You're doube checking what I said by coming up with a story of your own? Wtf?!?!? I said boys go around touching girls and boys who are gay are predators? That’s what YOUR thinking process is like. That’s what YOU took from my reply.
That's not what I said. You've really got some sort of issue where you can't put things together. You're twisting and assuming things once again and I'm not going to constantly explain myself to you.
I don't want to talk to you so stop replying to me!
Sweetie, its called irony. I was making fun of what you said which was rather childish and unfair if me because we are obviously not on a level playing field.
You implied that someone had to put up with touching ftom other males which he didn't want to consent to because the industry he works in was forcing him to pretend to be gay. You clearly don’t understand that by what you said, you were implying that all gay males are promiscuous, which is an unhelpful stereotype. I asked if the straight boys you knew all acted like that because if they don’t, you have no reason to assume that gay ones do - never mind the fact that you don’t actually know if anyone you are talking about is even gay in the first place.
Its a sad world where two guys can’t say nice things to each other and show each other affection without being accused of being forced to be gay.
Sweetie, I’m not twisting anything. What you wrote is there in black and white. You said it sounded wrong but it was what was happening! Don’t blame other people for taking that kind of statement the wrong way!
 






tmbrown3

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Yeah, he has to be, it's part of his job and he's surrounded by boys who are trying to touch him...Sounds wrong but that's what's happening. Naturally, even if you're not into it, you'd gravitate to the ones you're least uncomfortable with and soon you'll get used to it. They've been practising outside of what we see so we don't really know exactly what's going on...Maybe he knows Yuta won't take it too far. I do feel bad for him because he clearly doesn't like it. He probably didn't know acting gay was part of kpop and now he has no choice but to go along with it.
I feel bad for all the ships that are male/male or female/female. I get why the ships are there and why companies try hard to have the same sex ships but you gotta feel bad for them a little.Their fans and their companies' agenda are horrible. From companies trying to make fans seem like they could possibly be with them (i mean the fan technically could) and sasaengs stalking them/being obsessed with them. I just dont feel like i would want to be a kpop idol tbh, or even potentially date/marry one.
 






tmbrown3

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Wow, you’ve got some very extreme views. So, let’s just double check what you’re saying. Mark has to be okay with Yuta touching him because he is surrounded by gay boys who spend their time running around trying to touch each other. What kind of boys do you know? Do all the straight boys you know run around trying to touch girls? Just because someone is gay doesn’t make them a sexual predator.
Yuta is one of the most masculine guys in NCT. The other members describe him as very pure minded and kind. He has sisters and I’ve seen several interviews where he is quite outspoken on gender equality and judging girls on their looks etc.
He has said Mark is his best friend and he has said how deeply he feels about him. There really is nothing wrong with that. Hugging a friend does not make you gay. Yes, he is quite clingy with him but he says that Mark understands how much he misses his family because he misses his too. Mark actually seems really comfortable right Yuta but he does with Johnny and a few others too.
Stop making things sexual, which aren’t!
Yeah none of the guys in NCT nor most in kpop are particularly masculine. Believing in gender equality =/=! masculinity, clothes =/=! masculinity, social media mannerisms and personality =/=! masculinity. TBH, I dont think anyone really considered what he said as sexual but you.
 






sadtruth

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I feel bad for all the ships that are male/male or female/female. I get why the ships are there and why companies try hard to have the same sex ships but you gotta feel bad for them a little.Their fans and their companies' agenda are horrible. From companies trying to make fans seem like they could possibly be with them (i mean the fan technically could) and sasaengs stalking them/being obsessed with them. I just dont feel like i would want to be a kpop idol tbh, or even potentially date/marry one.
Yeah, it's all really messed up.
Tbh fans aren't completely at fault, they wouldn't be so crazy about idols if idols didn't have to create the fantasy of them being their boyfriends. It's determental for the idols and the fans, but companies don't care about either.

I'm a girl btw :p
 






Hon33

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Yeah none of the guys in NCT nor most in kpop are particularly masculine. Believing in gender equality =/=! masculinity, clothes =/=! masculinity, social media mannerisms and personality =/=! masculinity. TBH, I dont think anyone really considered what he said as sexual but you.
I’m really not sure what your post means. Where did I say that any of those things equalled masculinity?
The only thing I mentioned was how Yuta was a nice guy who seemed to care about gender equality issues. I didn’t say that contributed to his masculinity. Quite the opposite really. I meant that in spite of his masculinity it might show he has a softer side which explains why he is affectionate etc with Mark.
A definition of masculinity would probably include attributes which people think are typical of men - handsome, strong, intelligent, muscular, a sharp jaw line, dressed in a particular way etc, etc. Increasingly though, that definition is including men who are all of those things but also include men who aren’t afraid to be what they want to be - men who dress how they want to dress, who know how to show emotion, who can be very funny but very sensitive. There is so much more to masculinity than you appear to believe.
How you find none of NCT or any other Kpop males masculine is beyond me. in reality, there is no definition of masculinity.
I don’t know who you’re talking about when you said no one said anything sexual. Yuta? The other poster?
If the other poster didn’t mean anything sexual then she needs to think about she writes things. She talked about being touched by boys and it being wrong and she mentioned how people in Kpop had to pretend to be gay. If you mean Yuta, then please tell me where I said he said anything sexual?
 






Hon33

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Yeah, it's all really messed up.
Tbh fans aren't completely at fault, they wouldn't be so crazy about idols if idols didn't have to create the fantasy of them being their boyfriends. It's determental for the idols and the fans, but companies don't care about either.

I'm a girl btw :p
There might be some fans who think Kpop idols are their boyfriends but I’m guessing most fans are perfectly well aware they are not! That’s a very silly thing to say.
When Chen of Exo announced he had a girlfriend, western fans were mostly happy for him. He got a lot of support.
Fans want their idols to be happy and fulfilled.
 






Hon33

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I feel bad for all the ships that are male/male or female/female. I get why the ships are there and why companies try hard to have the same sex ships but you gotta feel bad for them a little.Their fans and their companies' agenda are horrible. From companies trying to make fans seem like they could possibly be with them (i mean the fan technically could) and sasaengs stalking them/being obsessed with them. I just dont feel like i would want to be a kpop idol tbh, or even potentially date/marry one.
You get why the companies have same sex ships? Why do the companies do it?
 






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