BTS discussion thread

Daisy2

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Apr 12, 2021
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This is the popular thread ever on vc!!! Its great not gonna lie, all of you did an amazing job spending your time to something productive to help others but some of you have mixed imagination with reality. Guys I have some question for you.....

1. What makes you to think some strangers named idols need to be saved or you think they wanna be saved? I see they are happily fooling around and enjoying whatever the hell they are doing. They show some sadness sometimes but thats just a show or regular mood changing or drugs. As random person we also get depressed sometimes. They are out there by their own will and deserve to be crashed under their own evil works. I don't see any sign amongst any A level celebrities coming outta industry in any way. Would you feel the same way for a politician or any jackass billionaire or millonaire alike them? Ans is NO! You peeps are still somewhat delusional for them who wants to pity them and this thread or illuminati topic is sort of backup for your delusion. They don't care to be saved and they don't need your pity and prayer, simple as that.

2. What makes you to think to nuture a kpop idol agency needs to PROGRAM them? They both have tons of pragmatic work and business than revolving around programming. Their greed and hunger after fake fame is enough not to be programmed. Mk ultra is the biggest trap for woke people to consider them innocent. Only for this one damn theory you can't get outta imagination of them being innocent thinking those grown men and women and teens don't know whats happening around them, sorry but not sorry. Programming idea was an experiment from CIA using various drugs and chemicals. Its experimental process speaks it can't be perfected after childhood or ever at any age. Anyone and anyhwhere breaking mirror doesn't mean alter ego, try to step back for a moment and take that just as aesthetics, then you can connect them with reality.
Now some of you come up with media faked their childhood, but its way too delusional to think the whole media, their family members, friends, neighbors, schoolmates and their peeps too need to lie about their childhood, its impossible to feed every single people with whom they have come to touch needs to be fed with lies by the agency. If this was the case you would get the news decades ago, it can't be kept secret. If its experiment really anywhere secretly located, still where some kpoper who are begging for constant materialism noone needs to keep them under program. So get this fact done. They know what hole they are digging for themselves and others.

3. What makes you to think some products named idol need to be sacrificed by highly calculative elites according to their mvs storyline? Sorry but not sorry you people mixed freemasonry and satanic sings with the storyline. I know their have been many signs of death before so called sacrifices of some celebrities, but if this was the case then everyone who acted death or tragedy in the media would be dieing all over the world. You people made it look like any young celebrities isn't allowed do die just because of sacrifice, otherwise they all will be blacklisted as sacrificed one. You can say murder or suicide or murder named suicide for some sinister reason. But yeah if they need to shut down anyone,someone who is happy and jolly with that life won't be so called sacrificed over the one who is depressed or rebel, mark my word. But it doesn't mean the latter one is gonna so called sacrificed everytime, keep that in mind to stay away from delusion.

I felt the need to share some common knowledge to you guys. So don't mix up imagination with reality and don't take every object too literally or every overly unrealistic theories too seriously. Learn to question why that should be a thing to be believed at first place. But be careful occult stuffs are real and its everywhere.
Couldn't agree more. The thread is amazing but obesessing over 7 random korean guys both ways is not practical. Having 1730 pages with mixed theories over theories dumps real facts. It will drive you insane without your realization and concious.

Another thing I noticed, do you ever realize how much view it has? More than 4M views isn't a easy deal. A big agency is definitely gonna hire people, especially when it come to the image of a public icon, to manipulate people. This should be a common knowledge by now. Many big agencies and corporates use this sneaky tactic not to rise opposition against them for maximum profit. Someone here was accused being an insider. The picture I have got from that user that should be clear for y'all s/he was here on purpose without others realizing. Not gonna lie the thread has already crucified the boyband exposing them. Now the agency will try their best to use the same theories for sympathy and empathy cause they have nothing to hide and will create empathetic theories and rumours to manipulate this huge amount of woke people. You guys should be careful in this thread.
 

Love Life

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Mar 4, 2021
Messages
93
Couldn't agree more. The thread is amazing but obesessing over 7 random korean guys both ways is not practical. Having 1730 pages with mixed theories over theories dumps real facts. It will drive you insane without your realization and concious.

Another thing I noticed, do you ever realize how much view it has? More than 4M views isn't a easy deal. A big agency is definitely gonna hire people, especially when it come to the image of a public icon, to manipulate people. This should be a common knowledge by now. Many big agencies and corporates use this sneaky tactic not to rise opposition against them for maximum profit. Someone here was accused being an insider. The picture I have got from that user that should be clear for y'all s/he was here on purpose without others realizing. Not gonna lie the thread has already crucified the boyband exposing them. Now the agency will try their best to use the same theories for sympathy and empathy cause they have nothing to hide and will create empathetic theories and rumours to manipulate this huge amount of woke people. You guys should be careful in this thread.
I second that!! Because of some crazy theories people overlook blatant occult, pizzagate, tafficking signs.
 

Love Life

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Mar 4, 2021
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Speaking on the credibilty of mk ultra, ever thought the background history of its very own writter? Heres a link I recommend to read every single line intently....this might shake your preconception abit;)

http://www.eaec.org/expose/FritzSpringmeier1.htm

FRITZ SPRINGMEIER – ANOTHER HUMAN TRAGEDY

John S. Torell

Articles like these are not fun to publish. It brings grief to the body of Christ and it tends to give credit to the Devil who does not need any more publicity. But when a Christian is a public speaker and writer and is not living according to the Bible and teaches false doctrine, the New Testament tells us to speak out and warn the Church about such a person.

Not only is Fritz speaking in meetings and writing books and articles, but he is also a "self-proclaimed de-programmer" trying to help some of the most emotionally damaged people on earth. He does not claim to have any background in pastoral counseling, he does not claim any education from the secular world in human behavior and mental illness, he has just plowed in to do a work which very few people with a sound mind want to enter unless there has been much prayer, fasting and reading of the Bible.

fritz, springmeier, de-programmer, Illuminati, occult
Neither is Fritz Springmeier your average Christian speaker and writer, most of his activity has been involved in "exposing" the Illuminati, bringing out "facts" about occult organizations, and for the last ten years or so, he has been very active in exposing the "mind control programs," which for the last 100 years have been a pet project for many nation’s intelligence services. Some of the most active nations in these ugly, painful and deadly programs have been the Soviet Union and Germany, from around 1914 until 1945, when the German programs were absorbed by the United States, France, England, Japan, China, North Korea, North Vietnam, and Israel. There have been and still are a number of small nations who are dabbling in mind control, particularly in South America, a number of African nations as well as a number of Muslim countries.

The United States has come to the forefront in mind control, since it took over the German programs as well as the Japanese programs after World War II. The most well known program in the United States is "Project Monarch," which I have written on in previous issues of The Dove. The reader must now understand that when we begin to research this "nether world" of darkness, it is run by ruthless intelligence agents who do not abide within the limits of law. Instead, they make their own laws as they go, and as I have written in previous articles, all intelligence services for the last 50 years or so, are controlled and operated by the World Government. Thus the president of the United States does not have control over the CIA, the intelligence services of the Army, Navy, Air Force etc., instead they answer directly to the World Government. That’s the reason why the KGB, the Mossad, the MI5 and the CIA etc. work together in the world doing their dirty business.

Pray that President Bush will be able to take back the control over all American intelligence branches.

Very few Christian pastors have any knowledge of these programs, and if a church stumbles onto a victim who tries to tell them what has happened to them, the pastor and his staff will most likely not believe him, but refer the person to the nearest mental institution. The world in which the intelligence services operate is a world of violence, betrayal, lies and death. It is a world run by people with criminal minds.

In order to protect itself, the intelligence service will operate counter intelligence, and place agents in Christian circles to trap any victim or agent who is trying to escape this diabolic world of darkness. Over the years I have seen people like Johnny Todd, Alberto Riviera, Rebecca Brown, Carl Sanders, and some others infiltrate the Christian community and do much damage. And they do it "in the name of Jesus." [All of the above mentioned persons have been exposed in prior issues of The Dove.]

Most of the victims coming out of mind control programs or from occultism have been sexually abused and are very vulnerable. For a so-called "Christian Counselor" to take advantage of women coming out and become sexually involved with victims is unacceptable and against everything that the Bible teaches. The information coming out concerning Fritz Springmeier indicates that he is either caught up in sinful activities, or he is a counter intelligence agent working to catch victims coming out, and then either discourage them to the degree that they lose hope and return to their handlers, or they commit suicide. Fritz has also left his second wife and has been working and living with a victim called "Cisco."

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS

Titus 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
I Timothy 6:3-5 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
Romans16:17-18 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
Jesus also spoke that we are to inspect the fruit of each other, and that we are to judge by the fruit if the tree is good or bad. Here are the words of Jesus:

Matthew 7:15-20 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Fritz, age 45, has emerged in Christian circles as an expert on the Illuminati and Satanic mind control. Later in this article I will include a write-up on Mr. Springmeier that will examine where he is from in detail, what he has done and the different names he has used. For a number of years I have felt that there is something wrong with this man, but since I did not have the documentation and knowledge of his operation, all I could do was to pray and wait for the Lord to open a door for more information.

My personal encounter with Fritz goes back to around 1992, when someone put Fritz on The Dove mailing list and he responded by sending me material. I was given his home telephone number and we talked a number of times. On November 7, 1993 he wrote a blistering two page letter to me, in which he said:

"John, I have a serious bone to pick with you. There is no use in sugar coating the fact that you have greatly offended me. I am offended because I had the expectation that you knew how to act like a Christian, and next, that you knew something about what is going on. It turns out that the expression a little knowledge is dangerous has proven correct again. Apparently, you have little knowledge and are extremely dangerous to the Christian side of things....."
Fritz was very angry with me for an article I had written concerning Johnny Todd in the Autumn/Winter 1993 issue of The Dove. This article, exposing Todd as a false teacher, was written after much research, including talking to Pastor Roland Rasmussen, of Faith Baptist Church in Canoga Park, California. Todd had been introduced to Pastor Rasmussen in 1977 by Jack Chick (publisher of the Chick tracts) and after having interviewed Todd, took him in as a member in the church and gave him recommendations to speak in other churches. A year later evidence was presented to this pastor that Todd was not only preaching and teaching in churches, but he was still into witchcraft, teaching and recruiting new members for the witch covens. (For a copy of this 1993 article on Johnny Todd, write for a reprint and include $7.00 to cover postage and handling).

When I read his letter I did not become angry or offended, instead I felt sorry for Fritz that he was unwilling to look at the truth and accept it, particularly since the information on Johnny Todd was very well documented, not just from one source, but from several sources. The most credible story was that of Pastor Rasmussen, who had gone out of his way to help Todd and was then betrayed. Together with his deacons, Johnny Todd was confronted in person and audio tapes teaching witchcraft, which had been recorded by Todd himself, were played in this meeting. But Fritz would have nothing of this. To him it was part of a conspiracy to destroy Todd.

NOTE: I can really understand the frustration that Pastor Rasmussen must have gone through, with not only Fritz attacking him, but also Jack Chick, publisher of Chick Tracts, refusing to believe the facts as they were laid out. The same thing happened to me, after Carl Sanders was exposed as a fraud, and three of us pastors met in Walnut Creek, California on January 3, 1995, to try to bring Carl Sanders to repentance. Carl Sanders had requested the meeting, and he came with his wife, his music director and his wife. The entire meeting was recorded on audio cassettes and the meeting ended with Carl refusing to repent, and the meeting ended on a very ugly note. When I brought out a complete expose on Carl Sanders in The Dove magazine, a number of people felt that it was not true and that it was written as a personal vendetta against Carl. Some folks supporting Carl contacted me, and we supplied them with documents, including copies of the audio cassettes where Carl, himself, could be heard making some awful statements. But some people still refuse to accept the truth, even when they hear it and see it in print.

THE MIND-SET OF FRITZ SPRINGMEIER
When we read the writings of a person, it will display what the person is thinking, unless the person is deceptive and is trying to write something he does not himself believe. In the 1995 Newsletter (March-April, Vol.4,No.3) written by Fritz, he makes the following statements on page 8:


"These five tools will help you to protect yourself from the deception of the controlled media. To summarize they are:
1. Learning to unwarp whatever we learn to get back to what is the kernel of truth in a statement.
2. Learning difference between general and specific truths.
3. Learning how probability and statistics can be used and misused.
4. Learning how truth is a balance of opposites.
5. Learning that there are different levels to understanding anything."
When I read this, red flags went up all around me. This is tricky double talk, which is normal in intelligence services, by politicians and from people in the occult.

Fritz is telling his reader that whatever they know up to this point, they have to discard and then using his material find the "real truth." But he then tells them there is no real truth, it is a balance of opposing viewpoints. And while a person is trying to find out truth, there are different levels of understanding, which means that what I believe today might not be what I will believe tomorrow when I reach a different level of understanding. This flies right in the face of what Jesus taught us and recorded in the Bible:

Matthew 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
MY MEETING WITH FRITZ SPRINGMEIER
As a pastor and teacher, I had been invited to speak at a seminar on May 27, 1995 in the city of Vallejo, California. One of the organizers was Doug Millar (a self appointed crusader against ritual child abuse, who lives in his car and travels from state to state). The topics were on Satanism, witchcraft, Satanic ritual child abuse, and mind control. Another speaker to be featured was Fritz Springmeier. Fritz came down from Oregon with a group, including two women, whom he claimed had come out of project Monarch and were in the process of being de-programmed by Fritz. Also, part of this entourage was a man by the name Kurt Billings, who had come out of the occult and teamed up with Fritz’s organization.

At this time I spent some time with Fritz and he seemed to have overcome his anger against me for speaking out against Johnny Todd. I tried to ask him to document the information that he was presenting, but he had a hard time telling me exactly where he had learned this and that. I asked him to send me material in the mail, but nothing ever come of this. I spent more time with Kurt Billings who told me all about his life and released a river of information about the occult world. When I tried to talk to the women that Fritz had with him, they had very little to say and seemed afraid. I listened to the teaching that Fritz had, and I was bothered with his material. There was so much detailed information on how things were done in the mind control programs, that I felt it was almost like he was teaching us how to do it.

The seminar was not very well organized and it ended up in a big argument among the speakers and organizers as to who was going to finish the last session. I told the organizers that I did not want to be part of this argumentation and my team and I left the seminar. After this my contact with Fritz ended.

HOW PEOPLE STARTED TO CONTACT ME CONCERNING FRITZ
Around 1998 I was contacted by several persons who shared their concern over Fritz Springmeier. They all had one thing in common, they were very afraid of Fritz and told me that under no circumstances could I use their names as a source. Some of them feared that they would be killed if Fritz found out that they were talking with me.

I told them that I would not do any write up on Fritz unless I had bonafide documentation that what was said was true. I was told that Fritz had abandoned his wife, that he had been married before, that he had been in Federal prison and that his real name was not Fritz Springmeier. My standard answer was, "Send me solid documentation and cross references." For a year nothing happened and I left the subject alone. Then during year 2000 I received more phone calls from a number of people and they all said the same thing. I was also sent photo copies of court documents, false identifications used by Fritz, and a number of other documents that verified that Fritz was not the person he had projected to the world. It is obvious to me, that the information released about Fritz is substantiated. I also have in my possession an affidavit written by Fritz, in which he refutes all the accusations against him and slanders all persons speaking out against him. Instead of coming out with facts only, he uses character assassination against each person speaking out against him, so that it does not matter what they present, with the reputation taken away, no one will listen to the facts they are presenting. It is the same tactic used by prosecutors and defense lawyers – destroy the credibility of the witness, and then it does not matter what they say, no one is going to believe the witness.

The people who have spoken to me and written to me are people who have known Fritz personally, some a long time others a shorter time. Some have been deeply involved with Fritz for years, and then because of things done wrong, they had no other choice than to leave. Thus all I can tell you is that a group of people who for the last ten years have been around Fritz, seeing what went on behind the scenes, they could not maintain their integrity with God and at the same time support Fritz Springmeier.

I am now going to insert a written document at this point in this article, which was not written by me (John S. Torell). It is a compilation done by a person, who has first hand knowledge of Fritz and also who knows personally all the people involved in the ministry of Fritz. The write up will give the reader ample information to understand, that there is a problem in the ministry of Fritz Springmeier.

WHO IS FRITZ SPRINGMEIER​
Fritz Artz Springmeier is regarded as one of the foremost authorities on the Illuminati and mind control. He has been on numerous radio shows and spoken at several conferences. A prolific writer, Springmeier has published several books, most notably, Be Wise As Serpents, The Watchtower and the Masons, The Top 13 Illuminati Bloodlines, The Illuminati Formula Used to Create an Undetectable Total Mind Controlled Slave and Deeper Insights.
Although Mr. Springmeier has disseminated a plethora of intriguing information, a veil of mystery surrounds this renowned researcher. Born in Garden City, Kansas on Sept. 24, 1955, Fritz’ previous name was Victor Earl Schoof, which he legally changed in 1987. The most recent name he uses may, in fact, be likened to a puzzle. Several survivors of ritual abuse and mind control have indicated being profoundly triggered after seeing or hearing his pseudonym. Fritz was the name Josef Mengele used while hiding out in South America. "Spring" in occult lingo means new. Meier may be a derivative of the German word meister, which means master. Hence; the new master in the likeness of Josef Mengele.
Arthur Alexander was either an Uncle or Grandfather on his mother’s side. One source claims Fritz' birth name is Arthur Alexander, Jr., however, this has not been cross referenced or objectively substantiated. Fritz’ father worked as an agricultural engineer for the United Nations and was assigned to such locations as Nepal, Libya, and Hawaii. After Fritz graduated from high school, he allegedly attended West Point. When Texe Marrs checked into his credentials, he found out there was no record of Fritz (or Victor Schoof) ever attending there.
Springmeier became interested in the Jehovah’s Witnesses, even though he supposedly became a Christian during his ‘teen years. While attending Kingdom Hall, he met a woman who he eventually married and had a child together. This marriage did not last long, as his wife filed for divorce on the grounds of child abuse – a charge that was never proven. The custody rights of their young son went to her. Disgruntled over the court decision, Fritz kidnaped the boy and fled to Oregon from the mid-west. He eluded law enforcement for about two years and was finally captured by the FBI. Springmeier was sentenced and served an unspecified amount of time in a federal prison. Some time after his release, he went back to Oregon and became involved in a counter-cult ministry to JW’s called, Witness Inc.
Due to unresolved disagreements with the leadership of the organization, he abruptly left. Shortly thereafter, Fritz joined another ministry but departed for reasons unknown. Around this time period, Springmeier met a Christian woman and married for the second time. He jokingly told her the reason he married her was because of her bloodline, which comes from an Illuminati family. She later came to the realization that it may have been closer to truth than not.
In the early 1990's, Fritz decided to go into full time ministry, along with being a stay-home dad with their new born son. While doing research on the Illuminati, he came across a woman by the name of Linda Anderson, who uses the alias, Cisco Wheeler. She is reputed to be a survivor of MK ULTRA-MONARCH programming. Springmeier became fascinated by her vast wealth of information, which he used extensively in his newsletters and books. This fascination soon turned into an obsession as Fritz started regularly spending the night at her house in order to protect her from being accessed. Strangely, Cisco’s husband lived in another dwelling next to the house, but did not seem to mind Fritz staying there. Springmeier’s wife, however, was quite concerned and upset over her husband s close relationship with Cisco. He would tell those close around him that his wife did not understand how important it was that he stay close to Cisco because her life was in jeopardy and he was one of the few people that could truly help her.
As a result of all the turmoil within the Springmeier family, their youngest son was experiencing severe emotional problems. Fritz’ wife took him to a therapist for an evaluation. The therapist felt the youngster may have been traumatized through sexual abuse. Another counselor also evaluated the psychological report and drew the same conclusion.
One day, Fritz’ wife found a black box under their bed. To her astonishment, there were several fake ID’s with Fritz’ picture on many of them. He used such aliases as Ian McDiarmid, Peter Dunne, Amos Eicher, and Vernon Schwartz. Fritz’ wife could no longer deal with his deceptiveness, insensitivity and abandonment so she filed for a divorce.
Shortly before the couple parted, Fritz and Cisco went to a mind control symposium in Texas and introduced her as Mrs. Springmeier. Many thought he was arrogant and obnoxious as he constantly interrupted the speakers and thought he should have been a presenter because of his vast knowledge about MPD, mind control, and ritual abuse. Also around this time, he was given a large sum of money, specifically for the the reprinting of two different books he’d written. Much to the dismay of the benefactor, he used only a small portion of the money for the books as most of it was used frivolously on personal items for Linda. The books were already made and stored by someone who was formerly in ministry with Fritz and who worked as a liaison between him and the printer.
In July 1996, Fritz and Cisco tried to get the books from this individual by banging on his door around 3:30 A.M., but were told he needed to pay the printer for them first. This infuriated Fritz who called the police and accused this person of stealing his books. The police talked to the printer to get his side of the story and he reconfirmed that the books were not officially the property of Springmeier because he had not paid for them. The police then told Fritz and Cisco to vacate the property, which they proceeded to do with much disdain.
In 1997, Springmeier wrote a letter, peculiarly titled, "Affidavit," to those on his mailing list. He charged Terry Cook, Ron Patton, and his second ex-wife, with conspiracy to bring his ministry down. Much of this confusing and poorly written letter was riddled with innuendos, half-truths and lies. For instance, he mentions, " Several people from the Terry Cook and Ron Patton group called Texe Marrs and simply slandered me with outright fabrications." First of all, there was never a connection between Cook and Patton. Mr. Patton called Terry Cook once regarding information about Carl Sanders. He also concocted a story saying Ron Patton had been under the tutelage of the Jesuits and was an alcoholic before converting to Protestantism. There is no evidence to substantiate these erroneous claims either. Further along in his writing, Fritz comments that, "Several people have told me my ex-wife is controlled by demons and given her life to Satan." Once again, he makes outlandish accusations to discredit those who he perceives as trying to destroy his ministry. His ex-wife has been attending a strong Bible believing church for several years and the leadership and congregation can attest to the solid faith she has in Jesus Christ.
This letter may have, in fact, been written as a form of damage control because Ron Patton had written an article titled, "Exposing the Exposers," in the Spring 1997 issue of his newsletter, Endure To The End. Essentially, Patton questioned why Springmeier aloud himself to be interviewed by the CIA front tabloid, CONTACT (December 17, 1996). Ron makes an interesting observation: during the interview, Fritz acknowledges his calling in life is to be a religious and social reformer. Coincidentally, in his book, The Illuminati Formula Used To Create A Total Mind Controlled Slave, he states on page 14 that one of the occupations the programmers select and groom for a young child under mind control is a religious and social reformer. This presents the question: why would Fritz use such precise wording to describe himself and why would a Christian use such ambiguous terminology for his calling?
Throughout the years, Fritz Springmeier has made numerous predictions of what will come to pass, yet were unfulfilled. In one of his newsletters in 1992, he adamantly predicted a December stock market crash due to the nation’s banks collapsing. However, he did admit he was inaccurate in his forecast and sent an apology letter to those on his mailing list. In another 1992 newsletter, he predicted that President George Bush would be reelected. Again, Fritz sent another letter to his readers to explain that his inside source told him of Bush’s inevitable second term in the White House, but the elite must have changed their minds and decided on Bill Clinton. In yet another document, entitled, Important Messages from the Desk of Fritz Springmeier, he unabashedly remarked, "The leadership in both Russia and the U.S. are preparing for war. From 8:00A.M. to 6:00P.M. on June 6, 1996 the proper [planetary] alignments will occur to detonate numerous nuclear devices." Of course, no catastrophic event Springmeier was predicting ever occurred. In 1999, Fritz writes a lengthy article: The war in the Balkans is following a script to create WWIII. In the beginning of the article, he states, "Over two weeks ago, this author was given inside information that the New World Order (NWO) had pulled all their key people -- specialists, and so forth out of San Diego, CA. These people were given a secret high-level briefing which told them to leave San Diego by April 3 [1999] and that their reason to leave was that Russia was going to drop nuclear bombs on San Diego, Seattle, NYC . . ." As we well know, this did not take place either. Springmeier apparently believed this was going to occur as he illegally entrenched himself on someone’s property in Eastern Washington.
In conclusion, one could surmise, after thoroughly analyzing the evidence presented that Fritz Springmeier does, in fact, have a hidden agenda. Although he has put out an enormous amount of information on topics relating to the NWO, he tickles the ears of the listeners and readers, thereby exploiting his expertise as a cover or front. Granted, some of his books have been an invaluable asset to many counselors and therapists whose clients are SRA and MC survivors, but has it proven to be a cure-all for complete de-programming? Several survivors have commented that while staying at Cisco’s house, there were sexual relations going on between the two of them. Is this appropriate conduct for a man who calls himself a Christian? Also, if Fritz is such an expert in de-programming, where are all the survivors he has personally helped and why hasn’t Cisco been set free from her programming?
The Holy Bible warns us of wolves in sheep’s clothing and in due time, the Lord reveals who are truly His and who are of the devil. Let us not forget that this is a spiritual battle and souls are at stake. We should therefore pray that Fritz Springmeier be genuinely convicted by the Holy Spirit and surrender before the throne of Jesus Christ.
This is a letter from Mrs. Gail Springmeier (his second wife) that she wrote to Texe Marrs.

THE LETTER FROM MRS. GAIL SPRINGMEIER​
Written to Texe Marrs, Director
Power of Prophecy Ministry
1708 Patterson Road, Austin, Texas 78733
Dear Texe and Secretaries,
This last month has been a confusing time in the life of this family. I’ve acted in a way that seemed expedient for the safety of my children and myself. Texe, you and your staff members have always been very kind, patient, and polite during my interactions with you, and I want to give all of you a personal explanation as to why our phone suddenly was changed to an unlisted number, that you could no longer reach us. I also want to give you my personal apology for not informing you long ago about my husband’s moral failings, his abandonment of his family, and the major problem he has with authority.
For the past 16 months Fritz has lived outside our family. I can count on two hands the number of times that he has spent the night in our home during that time. He has basically been using his home as an office. He has been "de-programming and protecting" this Satanically-ritually abused woman, who has Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD). Perhaps you have seen a copy of the book they co-authored "An Illustrated Guide to Monarch Mind Control," by Fritz Springmeier and Cisco Wheeler. Cisco is the name of an alter ego within the MPD system, of a woman whose name is actually Linda Johnson.
In March 1995, Fritz and Cisco traveled to a symposium in Texas using the names Fritz and Cisco Springmeier. The shared the same motel room and were generally known to be husband and wife. It was several weeks later that I discovered this when someone called for Fritz and assumed that I must be Cisco when I answered the phone. I also know for a fact that Fritz and Cisco share the same bedroom at her house (supposedly always in different beds), so that he can protect her from being triggered by "astral-projections," and access in general. Although Linda's husband lives in his own apartment behind the garage on the same property, I have no understanding of how he tolerates his wife's sleeping arrangements.
I have been prayerfully trying to break Fritz away from this situation. Every Christian friend that knows about this situation has told him that he needs to put his family before "ministry" and his personal needs, and that he needs to realize that he is abandoning his family. I have tried to be loving toward him, and be as supportive of his ministry as I can. I have tried to show him that there is room for his ministry at home. Finally, however, I have come to realize that I can't draw him away from Cisco, and that I'm now very little more than a Christian front for a "ministry" and the writings of a man badly deceived and outside of the protective cover of any Godly authority structure.
I love my husband, but for the sake of our children and Fritz's soul itself, I will no longer support his "ministry," nor will I hide his sin. Our children have suffered greatly by Fritz's abandonment. Our 14 year old, Michael, is actually my child from my first marriage and his father is deceased, however, Fritz has been his step dad for half his life. Michael no longer respects Fritz, because he is old enough to see what is going on and how badly his mother is hurt by Fritz's lack of attention. Sadly, the fact that Fritz lives with Linda has become common knowledge with our 4-year-old, Erick, and he acts out his anger with aggressive attitudes and hitting.
Also, Fritz's "ministry" is not supporting itself. Just a couple of weeks ago Fritz was suggesting that we borrow $17,000.00 on the equity of our home to pay the printing of 3000 "Top 13 Illuminati" books (so he could sell 1000 of them to you).
My teaching job is the mainstay of this family, and besides our great provider, our Heavenly Father, our home is our only security. We have no savings, investments, etc., only our home and hundreds of unsold "Watchtower and Mason" books. By the way, Fritz still owes $2,500 to the publisher who printed those. The money from your last order was supposed to go directly to the publishers. It is unknown how it was spent, but it didn't get to the publishers.
The reason I changed our phone number is so that I would no longer need to explain that I had no idea when Fritz would be home, nor did I know when he gets up in the morning. I have simply refused to be a Christian front any longer. On Friday, August 25, 1995, Fritz was served with divorce papers. I need to see a repentant heart and behavioral change over a long period of time, before I'll even consider living with him again. So far, he is very angry with me, and acts out the appearance of being very unjustly treated. He states that I still don't "support his ministry and never have." I believe he sees "support" in dollars and cents, because a friend and I together saved him from several lawsuits for mail fraud last Summer and Fall, essentially saving his "ministry." You may remember getting calls from people wondering who this Fritz Springmeier was, and whether he should be trusted when he would cash checks, and not process an order for six months, or so.
I believe our friend and I did you a great disservice by saving Fritz from the consequences of his own action last year. Fritz wasn't every appreciative of our help, however, yet he shouldn't be able to look me in the face and say "you never have supported my ministry." It simply is not true.
In the first paragraph of this letter I referred to the safety of this family. I married Fritz, because I was in love and I felt he was a devoted Christian and a victim of his first wife. The fact remains, however, that Fritz is a convicted felon, and he spent time in prison. His crime was interfering with custodial rights and kidnapping his son. He was on the run with his son by his first marriage, James, for almost four years. During this time he used false identification under 6 or 7 names. A couple of weeks ago, I found this ID carefully filed away in a file box, with his current driver's license blown up, as if for examination for duplication. Fritz is trained as a grapho-analyst, and is a talented graphic artist. He has made his own driver's licenses before and a trusted friend says he has created more false ID. He saw Fritz with a current Canadian passport and credit cards under the name of "Amos Eicher," one of the aliases he used on the run. Why? I'm not sure, but I feel that he must be getting ready to run again. Until I can be sure of why he needs this ID, I'm seeking supervised visitation for Erick.
I don't even know who this man is any more. In recent months I have told Fritz that the only reason that I stuck with him were because I loved him and, although I didn't always agree that what he was doing was right, that I firmly believed that he thought he had God's approval for what he was doing. Well, I no longer believe in him, and I thought it only right to tell you openly and honestly that his life style is no longer Christian, and now you can determine how you want to deal with his "ministry."
I will say it again, I love Fritz and find no pleasure in discrediting him. In fact, last winter I wrote a long letter to the publishers of "The Little Cloud Report," Camille Blumstrum, defending my husband against their anti-Semitic accusations (I remember that you also wrote in his defense – thank you). I’m much more used to defending rather than discrediting, but I can no longer defend Fritz.
Again, I apologize for the "front" I maintained through July and the first weeks of August. I was trying to keep the appearance of a normal life, while finding out as much as I could about what Fritz was involved with. I realize that you have quoted Fritz in your books, and marketed his books, and I really hated to be a party to this and to put you in this position. God bless your ministry, and direct you in His way.
Gail Springmeier
This is an unsigned confession that written by Fritz wherein he is trying to apologize for his false prophesying released some time ago that never came to pass.


IMPORTANT CONFESSION (Of Fritz Springmeier)
To my newsletter readers and the Christian body in general:
This letter concerns an important confession from me to you. I prefer to call my sins for what they are – sin. I pray that I do not rationalize my sins away, but confront them and deal with them. And yet, I feel it is important to explain some of the background of what is being confessed – not that I might subtract from my guilt – but that the proper understanding of what mistakes I made are understood that we might all strive to learn from my mistakes. It is with the hope that an explanation of what happened may edify more than a simple confession that I have written this letter.
The Spirit gives us the living Word from the Scriptures and the living Word direct by revelation to God’s people. This Word is then passed on to God’s people. The minister, Sunday morning, tells you what God’s Word is saying. The prophet hears God’s Word and tells you what the message he received means. Actually, God’s prophets are called more often to look at God’s written word and forth tell it, than they are to foretell something. This is clear from the Old Testament prophets. This means a minister who tells forth (preaches) the Word of God is a prophet. How many ministers unintentionally tell us incorrectly what the Word of God is saying. I am guilty of mishandling God’s word.
In a fashion parallel to the minister/prophet incorrectly telling us what some Bible verse means, I incorrectly put forth what God’s word meant. I will clarify specifically what I am getting to. In the course of receiving lots of information about December, I went to the Lord to find out what would happen. I received a vague green light that an economic disaster would happen.
The Scripture teaches us that in the mouth of two or three witnessed every word is established. When the Lord asked me to write seven books back in 1979, I waited until I found 3 witnesses that backed up what I was sensing in the Lord. I have done this as an unspoken rule. It is something I learned from being Amish. All of our ministers when they finished a sermon would ask several men to give a testimony as to whether his sermon was correct, and that if there were any mistakes to bring it onto correct ground. That type of humility is rare in the worldly churches. I really appreciate the good examples of humility that so many of my Amish brothers set for me. Likewise, although I functioned as a prophet for many years and the Lord showed me that I was to serve him in this capacity–it was not until others confronted me with it, and told me that I was a prophet, that I admitted it. Again it was comforting to have several solid men from God bear witness of what the Spirit had revealed to me.
Getting back to what I received from the Lord about December. What I received was right, but I didn’t know how to communicate it. Just like the minister who reads a verse of God’s word and picks up three commentaries about that verse to understand it, I went to other prophets to understand what God had put in my heart. I was far more specific in my newsletters about what was to happen than what God showed me. I was trying to understand what God’s vague green light meant. Many other people including a number of Prophets of God will recognized in Christian churches were very specific about what was to happen, and I decided that is what God must be trying to tell me. It wasn’t willful sin on my part. It was similar to the sin of ignorance when the minister gets 3 modern commentaries that give a more specific meaning to God’s Word than what the Bible actually originally had. The prophet is given fresh revelation and the people must decide how to handle it, because much of what may be given can’t be verified by Scripture one way or the other. What I said about December’s Stock Market crash was certainly not unscriptural. But I was specific where God had not been specific. And I was wrong. Prophets don’t always understand what God is giving them. Daniel didn’t. In I Peter 1:10-12 we read, "Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow." Here we see the Prophets were diligently trying to understand what God was telling them.
The apostles spoke forth prophecies that the end times would soon come, but what did God mean by "things which must shortly take place"? (Revelation 1:1) We would not call John a false prophet for not understanding what God had given him.
My job assignment is to give hope, to call people back to the Word of God, and to warn of sin’s consequences. I don’t try to get into the foretelling business, but I do believe that God will show his prophets what he is doing. And because I trusted that others were also receiving correctly, I felt that what I was hearing should fit into the broader context of what God’s people were hearing. Today, there are many written prophecies, such as J. R. Church gives a year by year prophecy for this decade based upon the Psalms. He feels the numbers of the Psalms refer to years in the twentieth century.
One of my pet peeves with modern Bible translations is that they are specific when God’s word is vague. People enjoy the clarification, and defend these new translations because they understand them better, but the Word of God has been changed. I am guilty of being specific when God’s word to me was vague. I didn’t handle God’s Word to me accurately. With a few people I was able to discuss things more in depth and was able to explain clearer what I was trying to communicate.
I feel somewhere in all of what’s taken place, is a lack of commitment to my duties, a sloppy attitude in carrying out my duties, and this needs to be repented of.
Your comments are welcome. Your forgiveness is welcome. Your revelations from God are also welcome.
I feel a closer walk with God will be beneficial for me. A great deal of force is being exerted by Christians to get me to compromise and sin. I believe those who read my newsletter do not want me to compromise. Please pray for me. May we all together continue drawing closer to God.
your brother-in-Christ,
Fritz Springmeier

CONCLUSION - Written by John S. Torell
There is a cry in the Christian community that we are not to judge, just leave people alone and let the love of God take care of all things. This is not a Biblical teaching at all. Let us settle this issue here and now by looking at these Bible verses:

I Corinthians 5:1-13 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, to deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
The Bible is very clear as the apostle Paul lays out the teaching of judging. WHEN THERE IS ABUSE AND CHRISTIANS DO NOT SPEAK OUT, THEY BECOME GUILTY OF THE ABUSE!

The American Medical Association (AMA) acknowledged during the year of 2000, that there were about 100,000 medical doctors in the United States who had been reprimanded or faced hearings of possible loss of a license to work as a medical physician. Many of them had performed "botched" surgeries or done damage to a patient by subscribing the wrong medication. When a coalition of concerned people asked for a list of these medical doctors, the AMA answered that in no way could they publish such a list. It would mean the end of a career for each of these doctors. The AMA insisted that the public had no right to know, and that when a person needed medical assistance, he should not have the option to find out the skills of the physician who was going to operate on him, nor if he was a medical doctor with a bad record. This does not sound very good, but it is true.

All professions in the United States are well regulated, and if you are going to open up a business, you must apply for a licence. Any customer has the option of checking out a contractor or business operator, before submitting to a deal. Not so when it comes to the MEDICAL FIELD and CHRISTIAN MINISTRY! Anyone can hang out a "shingle" and call themselves pastors, evangelists, apostles, teachers, counselors, etc. and no one is going to bother to check if the person is qualified. It is bad enough to teach false doctrine, living a life of lies, but when a person is trying to work so-called counseling or de-programming and then mentally and spiritually destroy the victims coming for help, something must be said and done.

HERE IS MY ASSESSMENT OF FRITZ SPRINGMEIER
Having two failed marriages behind him, and having lived with a married woman is not a great witness for Christ. The man shows a lot of mental instability, and using information given him by people coming out of the occult, to write books is not the smartest thing to do. When I read his material I find a lot of truth in it, but also a lot of confusion and some things are just flat wrong.

Because the Christian community at large knows so little of the occult world and the dark world of mind control, he has been able to capitalize on this and gain some kind of a following. This is how Johnny Todd, Alberto Rivera, Rebecca Brown and Carl Sandersinvaded the Christian community. And they are not the only ones, there are thousands of impostors trying to make a living, by presenting themselves to be some kind of "expert," who has been called by God to warn the church of Jesus Christ.

One of the major characteristics of Fritz and the others I mentioned here, is that they do not want to submit to any type of authority. They want to operate as "Lone Rangers," and when anyone questions them, they become angry and leave. Jesus sent out his disciples two and two, and he also set up a church with pastors, evangelists, teachers, prophets, apostles, etc and that all these should be in submission to one another. (Ephesians 4:11-32) When a person is living a life of lies, there is no way they can or will submit to a local church body nor be held financially accountable.

If a person claims that there is no one else on this earth that is true to God, and that he has been sent out to correct all people, I say, WATCH OUT!

In the thousands of deliverances that we have done in our ministry, we are acutely aware of the demonic pressure that comes against us, the fragility of the person seeking relief and how important it is that the counselors who are praying and casting out the demons must be in good standing in the kingdom of God. At times I have seen demons jump and attack a member of the team, and later I learned that the person had hidden sins in his life. One man in our ministry was jumped upon by demons and became so oppressed that he renounced his faith in Christ and started to live a life of sin. Only through the prayers of his wife, children and others in the church was he set free, but he was in torment for several years. It is fitting now to quote this from the Bible:


Acts 19:11-17 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul: So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.
Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the LORD Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth. And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so. And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.
As far as I am concerned, Fritz Springmeier needs help, and he is in no condition to operate as a Christian counselor. I am sure that Fritz is going to read this article and I welcome him to do it. My advice to you Fritz is this, stop in your tracks, take an inventory of your life, be totally and brutally honest with yourself, ask God to forgive you for what you have done wrong, and then seek out a Bible preaching loving pastor and church where you live, and put yourself under that pastor and church and ask them to help you to be healed in your soul and body, so that once again you can begin to function in the kingdom of God. Fritz, look at this standard for a minister as set forth in the Bible:

I Timothy 3:1-7 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
The body of Christ does not hate you Fritz, but you must be corrected. There would be no greater joy in my life than to hear, that you have surrendered to Christ and are seeking help.

To all of you who are reading this article, pray for Fritz, for his children, and for the people he has hurt and for those who have hurt him. Let us pray that God will do a mighty work and redeem one of his fallen servants, Fritz Springmeier.

UPDATE ON FRITZ A. SPRINGMEIER​

Just a few days before we started to print this issue of The Dove, we received the following newspaper article on Fritz. It looks like Fritz has "dumped" Linda Johnson, also known as "Cisco," and found himself another woman, whom he has married. There is a possibility that the "new" Mrs. Springmeier could be Cisco, but under a new name. Regardless, this will be the third marriage for Fritz, as far as we know.

If you want to follow up on this arrest case, you can go to "The Oregonian" website and check Archives. Following is a copy of the report of Fritz’ and Patricia’s arrest as printed in The Oregonian, March 2, 2001.


The Oregonian​
Deputies, feds arrest Corbett couple
An investigation continues into activities of a white separatist group, including drugs and weapons Friday, March 2, 2001
By Stuart Tomlinson of The Oregonian staff
CORBETT --
Federal agents and Clackamas County sheriff's deputies arrested a Corbett couple Thursday as part of an ongoing investigation into the activities of a white separatist group.
Fritz A. Springmeier, 45, also known as Victor E. Schoff, and his wife, Patricia Springmeier, 46, are accused of first-degree manufacture and distribution of a controlled substance, and conspiracy to manufacture and distribute controlled substances. They are being held in the Clackamas County Jail.
Agents from the FBI and the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms as well as sheriff's deputies searched the couple's home on Groce Road for several hours Thursday, said Deputy Angela Blanchard, spokeswoman for the Clackamas County Sheriff's Department.
Blanchard said police seized equipment used to grow marijuana, several weapons and white separatist literature. The weapons were not "anything illegal to have in your home," she said.
Fritz Springmeier was known for writing books and tracts on the beliefs of the Christian Patriot Association, an ultra-right-wing group based in Boring. "He does a lot of public speaking and proclaims himself to be a self-employed author," Blanchard said.
Last month, police arrested three people in a Sandy-area home and seized military-style weapons and 50 marijuana plants. Two of the people were released, but a third suspect, Forrest E. Bateman Jr., 29, is being held at the Justice Center Jail in Portland on outstanding warrants for previous charges of assault and illegal possession of an AK-47 assault rifle.
In the Feb. 9 raid, agents also seized a small amount of ammonium nitrate and fuel oil, and literature affiliated with the Army of God, a white supremacist group connected to the 1997 bombings of an abortion clinic and a gay nightclub in Atlanta.
Blanchard said Fritz Springmeier and Bateman met at a Christian Patriot Association meeting several years ago.
"We think that part of their supplemental income came from selling marijuana," she said. "We believe they were very close and worked in concert together to operate a marijuana grown operation."
In November, federal agents arrested six members of the Christian Patriot Association on accusations of operating a $186 million "warehouse bank" scheme in Clackamas County that allowed 900 people across the nation to hide their money from the Internal Revenue Service. The case has not yet come to trial.
 
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Boopdedoop

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Speaking on the credibilty of mk ultra, ever thought the background history of its very own writter? Heres a link I recommend to read every single line intently....this might shake your preconception abit;)

http://www.eaec.org/expose/FritzSpringmeier1.htm
mk ultra had no single individual writer. Fritz Springmeier was just an American conspiracy theoriest who went to seek this type of information. However, there is no denying the credibility of mk ultra because it did exist. Those things really did happen back in the day and it had the public extremely worried and I suppose that's why someone like him got popular back in the day because people wanted to soak as much in as they could because there was nowhere else to get this info. However, now we actually do have credible sources which is documentation released from the government in 2016. I'll give you the link and you can check it out for yourself there are over 200 pieces of documentation of what had occurred all written by different individuals.


There are maybe ten documents missing however they were destroyed or stolen when they were gathering together the documents.

And here is the actual victim's testimonies of what had happened to them in the experiment. But that is only a small segment of what they had done to people.


But from what I saw from Fritz Springmeier he wrote a ton of books about the bloodlines of the Illuminati and from what I read from your article is he did have a weird way of getting that type of information.
 

Boopdedoop

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mk ultra had no single individual writer. Fritz Springmeier was just an American conspiracy theoriest who went to seek this type of information. However, there is no denying the credibility of mk ultra because it did exist. Those things really did happen back in the day and it had the public extremely worried and I suppose that's why someone like him got popular back in the day because people wanted to soak as much in as they could because there was nowhere else to get this info. However, now we actually do have credible sources which is documentation released from the government in 2016. I'll give you the link and you can check it out for yourself there are over 200 pieces of documentation of what had occurred all written by different individuals.


There are maybe ten documents missing however they were destroyed or stolen when they were gathering together the documents.

And here is the actual victim's testimonies of what had happened to them in the experiment. But that is only a small segment of what they had done to people.


But from what I saw from Fritz Springmeier he wrote a ton of books about the bloodlines of the Illuminati and from what I read from your article is he did have a weird way of getting that type of information.
https://www.owltail.com/people/87Bk5-fritz-springmeier/appearances

Here is some of the podcasts it was talking about in your article. However, you always have to remember when you listen to conspiracy theories you don't know how credible they are or not. Technically we are also theorist however, the only places we get our information is from the internet which could have a million holes in it also.
 

Love Life

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mk ultra had no single individual writer. Fritz Springmeier was just an American conspiracy theoriest who went to seek this type of information. However, there is no denying the credibility of mk ultra because it did exist. Those things really did happen back in the day and it had the public extremely worried and I suppose that's why someone like him got popular back in the day because people wanted to soak as much in as they could because there was nowhere else to get this info. However, now we actually do have credible sources which is documentation released from the government in 2016. I'll give you the link and you can check it out for yourself there are over 200 pieces of documentation of what had occurred all written by different individuals.


There are maybe ten documents missing however they were destroyed or stolen when they were gathering together the documents.

And here is the actual victim's testimonies of what had happened to them in the experiment. But that is only a small segment of what they had done to people.


But from what I saw from Fritz Springmeier he wrote a ton of books about the bloodlines of the Illuminati and from what I read from your article is he did have a weird way of getting that type of information.
Umm...mk ultra was highly secretive experiment and nihilistic your right. It had been documentate way before. The information your giving adapted from past history and what Im referring to are two different things. Past experiment of programming were just scientific without any involvement of religious or satanic affect. What I'm saying someone who contradicts his own beliefs and can't uphold the pride of his own ministry, how much legit his talks on detailed satanic description and mind control to refer today without any providence of source from him? More irony is whenever asked he preferred to shut that person or avoid. So, why was he so afraid off to face his own document?
 

Boopdedoop

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Umm...mk ultra was highly secretive experiment and nihilistic your right. It had been documentate way before. The information your giving adapted from past history and what Im referring to are two different things. Past experiment of programming were just scientific without any involvement of religious or satanic affect. What I'm saying someone who contradicts his own beliefs and can't uphold the pride of his own ministry, how much legit his talks on detailed satanic description and mind control to refer today without any providence of source from him? More irony is whenever asked he preferred to shut that person or avoid. So, why was he so afraid off to face his own document?
oooh sorry I thought you meant something else.

from this quote in the article
"In the first paragraph of this letter I referred to the safety of this family. I married Fritz, because I was in love and I felt he was a devoted Christian and a victim of his first wife. The fact remains, however, that Fritz is a convicted felon, and he spent time in prison. His crime was interfering with custodial rights and kidnapping his son. He was on the run with his son by his first marriage, James, for almost four years. During this time he used false identification under 6 or 7 names. A couple of weeks ago, I found this ID carefully filed away in a file box, with his current driver's license blown up, as if for examination for duplication. Fritz is trained as a grapho-analyst, and is a talented graphic artist. He has made his own driver's licenses before and a trusted friend says he has created more false ID. He saw Fritz with a current Canadian passport and credit cards under the name of "Amos Eicher," one of the aliases he used on the run. Why? I'm not sure, but I feel that he must be getting ready to run again. Until I can be sure of why he needs this ID, I'm seeking supervised visitation for Erick."

You can tell that he was very mentally unstable. Who knows what was going through his mind or clouding his thoughts half of the time. His "source" was people telling him things and who knows who these people were. He probably only had so much information and there was only so much he could talk about it. With his state of mind, he probably thought his life was threatened that's why he avoided giving more information on it.
 

Boopdedoop

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Just wanna share something. Out of the blues, I dreamt of V. He was very much different from what we see on cam. I think he’s a good person in real life but got drag in to the negative side because I think he was forced to do things that he doesnt like. What do you think guys?
Ngl I feel like dreams have nothing really to do with seeking truth from other worldly psychic force to seek information. But I believe its perceptions in your own mind that make you have dreams. Your own wants, desires, worries, fears, and what you have been thinking about a lot create your dreams. None of us know what these people are like in person. However, I'm not going to deny the possibility of you being right because any human being could be like that.
 
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Love Life

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oooh sorry I thought you meant something else.

from this quote in the article
"In the first paragraph of this letter I referred to the safety of this family. I married Fritz, because I was in love and I felt he was a devoted Christian and a victim of his first wife. The fact remains, however, that Fritz is a convicted felon, and he spent time in prison. His crime was interfering with custodial rights and kidnapping his son. He was on the run with his son by his first marriage, James, for almost four years. During this time he used false identification under 6 or 7 names. A couple of weeks ago, I found this ID carefully filed away in a file box, with his current driver's license blown up, as if for examination for duplication. Fritz is trained as a grapho-analyst, and is a talented graphic artist. He has made his own driver's licenses before and a trusted friend says he has created more false ID. He saw Fritz with a current Canadian passport and credit cards under the name of "Amos Eicher," one of the aliases he used on the run. Why? I'm not sure, but I feel that he must be getting ready to run again. Until I can be sure of why he needs this ID, I'm seeking supervised visitation for Erick."

You can tell that he was very mentally unstable. Who knows what was going through his mind or clouding his thoughts half of the time. His "source" was people telling him things and who knows who these people were. He probably only had so much information and there was only so much he could talk about it. With his state of mind, he probably thought his life was threatened that's why he avoided giving more information on it.
Threatened? Or more likely to get backlashed off? With some criminal records?


Fritz Springmeier, "political prisoner"?

On Halloween, Alex Jones conducted a Skype interview with Fritz Springmeier, who was released from prison in March. You can watch the full interview on Infowars, but here's the first part:

I have written about Fritz Springmeier many times in passing. He has appeared at least once on this blog ("Al Gore and the Suitcase of Blood"), several times on Swallowing the Camel, and quite a few times on blogs dealing with "Satanic panic".

It would be exhausting and rather pointless to detail his entire career here, but if you're unfamiliar with Springmeier, here are some details you may want to know:

  • Born in 1955, he used the name Victor Earl Schoof until legally changing it to Fritz Springmeier in 1987.
  • He says he attended West Point, but did not.
  • He professes to be a very religious man, and once ran a sort of Christian lay ministry (he is not an ordained minister, and does not have any theological training).
  • In 1997 he allegedly circulated a strange "affidavit", accusing several other Christian ministers, including Alex Jones's mentor Texe Marrs, or trying to sabotage this ministry. "Several people have told me my ex-wife is controlled by demons and given her life to Satan," he wrote of his second wife, Gail.
  • To his mind, every religious tradition outside of the Judeo-Christian is basically Satanism. This includes ancient Egyptian beliefs, Theosophy, and any form of occultism. Oh, and Jehovah's Witnesses. And the Catholic Church. In a 1996 Prophecy Club lecture, Springmeier said every human on Earth is tracked from birth to death by Jesuit priests.
  • His conspiracy writing and lectures have been a huge influence on David Icke. Much of Springmeier's misinfo has made it into Icke's books. For example, the Belgian castle called Chateau Amerois is referred to by both Springmeier and Icke as the "Mothers of Darkness" castle, in which the elite hold ghastly Satanic rituals and slaughter children.
  • In the early '90s, he became deeply interested in the subject of government mind control programs, and trained himself to be a deprogrammer of women who allegedly survived "Project Monarch", a supposed offshoot of MK-ULTRA*. He ended up leaving his second wife and young son for one of these women, Cisco Wheeler. Together they authored books and gave lectures on Illuminati mind control techniques. Their best-known work is the massive book The Illuminati Formula Used to Create an Undetectable Mind Controlled Slave.
  • Cisco Wheeler, like all alleged Monarch victims, was deliberately programmed to have multiple personalities (Dissociative Identity Disorder). One of her alter personalities was a cat.
  • Springmeier's take on history is, um, creative. In the Prophecy Club lecture cited above, he declared that Hitler was descended from the Rothschilds. You'll see more of his unique interpretations of history later in this post.
  • He really, and I mean really, hates The Wizard of Oz. He's convinced it's a Satanic parable used in the mind control programming and ritual torture of young children. He thinks the same of every film, book, and TV show that appears to reference Oz in any way (for instance, the movie K-Pax).
  • In his book Bloodlines of the Illuminati, Springmeier attempted to identify the 13 families that have controlled the world for centuries. His M.O. was to tick off lists of prominent people with the same last name, without bothering to ascertain if they were actually related to one another, then link them to the Illuminati by the most tenuous connections. For example, reporter Robert Collins was implicated simply because he had the surname Collins and because the Illuminati "control the press" (Springmeier provided no evidence that the Illuminati does, in fact, control the press). Likewise, he tied serial killer Ted Bundy to the Bundy/McBundy families, and explained that his sadistic sociopathic condition is quite typical of Illuminati members, even though Bundy's name came from a working class stepfather.
  • In the '80s, he vociferously defended"former Illuminati member" John Todd long after Todd's stories were shown to be fraudulent. The late Mr. Todd was a "Christian" con artist posing as a former Satanist. He was also a convicted rapist. Though he had a long history of complaints against him for propositioning teenage girls, and faced related criminal charges several times, Springmeier insisted that Todd's r*pe conviction was a frame-up by (who else?) the Illuminati. At one point, he even claimed that Todd had been abducted from prison and murdered by Illuminati agents in 1994. This was not true. Todd was released from prison in 2004, was remanded into custody as a dangerous sex offender, and died a natural death three years later. Now, Springmeier uses the same cry of frame-up in reference to his own criminal activities.
  • In their book Deeper Insights Into the Illuminati Formula, Springmeier and Wheeler state that the Illuminati has been creating "synthetic humans" (made partly from cows) since the 1970s.
  • In 2001, he and his third wife, Patricia, were arrested for having a marijuana grow op in conjunction with a white supremacist, Forrest E. Bateman, Sr. Bateman was convicted in 1989 of racially intimidating a high school student in Forest Grove, Oregon, and three years later he appeared on the state police's Ten Most Wanted list for firearm offenses and assault connected to skinhead activities. And now we get to the heart of the matter...

Kooky as he was, and annoying as his continuous stream of nonsense could be, I had no reason to suspect that Springmeier was in any way a violent man. So I was shocked in 2002, when Springmeier was indicted on charges of planting a bomb in an adult video store and robbing a bank in Damascus, Oregon, years earlier.
Here's what happened: On the afternoon of October 8, 1997, a propane bomb exploded in the Fantasy Adult Video Store in Damascus. No one was injured.

Roughly ten minutes later and six miles away, a man in camo fatigues, later identified as Forrest Bateman, Sr., walked into the Damascus branch of Key Bank of Oregon and demanded cash from a teller, firing his assault rifle at the ceiling to intimidate bank employees and patrons into complying with his demands. He exited the bank with a mere $6000.

The bombing and robbery went unsolved until 2001, when police discovered the pot operation Springmeier, his wife, and some friends were running.
Springmeier and Bateman were arrested after deputies of the Clackamas County Sheriff’s Office seized fifty marijuana plants, bomb-making materials and illegal weapons**, and Army of God literature from Bateman’s home in Sandy, Oregon, in February. Anthony Huntington (Bateman's housemate), Patricia Springmeier, and a woman named Jennifer Williams were also arrested. Bateman already had outstanding warrants against him for of assault and illegal possession of an assault rifle.
The FBI was brought into the case because of the weapons and Army of God literature, which indicated possible terrorist activities.

Anthony Huntington turned out to be the weakest link in the robbery chain. Faced with serious prison time for weapons and drug charges, he confessed his own role in planning the 1997 bombing and bank robbery, and gave up the names of his co-conspirators, including Springmeier and Bateman (most reports hint there was at least one other man involved, but no other co-conspirators are named). The drug and weapons charges were dropped and replaced with charges related to the bombing and robbery.

Batemen pled guilty and was sentenced to 9 years in prison. Springmeier pled not guilty, was convicted, and received the same sentence as Bateman. Huntington, for his testimony against Bateman and Springmeier, received a reduced sentence for his role in the bombing and robbery. He was released in 2005.
It should be noted that the longest prison term was served not by Springmeier, but by Bateman. Bateman was released from prison in September, a full seven months after Springmeier.

In my opinion, these three guys got off easy: Five and nine years are ridiculously short sentences for two violent crimes that could easily have resulted in fatalities.




Now here's where the "political prisoner" part comes into play. Springmeier claims total innocence in this affair. His story is that he knew Huntington only from Bible study. He knew nothing about the bombing, he knew nothing about the robbery, and the whole thing was a frame-up. He has even said he has an alibi: He was working at a print shop in Eagle Creek, a town ten miles from Damascus, exactly when the robbery occurred. But his boss refused to confirm this, he says, because Springmeier had once offended him by criticizing Billy Graham.

According to Fritz, he was framed for a variety of reasons: He helped people leave the Illuminati, he published his mind control research, he exposed an "entire community" of Illuminati members in Bend, Oregon (forcing them to sell their homes and move elsewhere).
He insists there was no evidence against him (both he and Jones betray a total lack of understanding of just what circumstantial evidence is, and how powerful it can be when used properly). He claims the three witnesses who testified against him at trial were bribed, though he presents no evidence of this. Not even circumstantial evidence.

Hard information about the case is scanty. Most of the original news articles have been taken down, and Internet searches just bring up the same small amount of info provided by Springmeier's supporters (you'll find dozens of re-posts of Henry Makow's essay "How Fritz Springmeier Was Framed", which will not tell you how Fritz Springmeier was framed; it's simply more of Makow's usual "the Illuminati did everything and that's the end of it" b.s.).

It is not known to me precisely why Springmeier was growing pot, nor why he decided to take part in a bank robbery. The authorities seem to think he and his buddies were "fundraising" for even more sinister activities, such as bombing abortion clinics or federal buildings. It's entirely possible, however, that Springmeier just wanted some cash.

In spite of his association with the racist Bateman, I have found no evidence that Springmeier is directly involved with organized racist or racial separatist groups. His wife maintains that he is not a racist.
He does have some peculiar ideas about Nazis and Jews, though. In Deeper Insights Into the Illuminati Formula, he and Wheeler contend that the Nazi concentration camps were established not because the Nazis wanted to confine and exterminate citizens they deemed non-Aryan, but simply to perform mind control experiments on children. The racial supremacy thing was just a "cover". And he espouses conspiracy theories that Jewish people essentially control the world. In Bloodlines of the Illuminati, he and Wheeler wrote, "Since the core of the conspiracy of power is Jewish, the attitude of those allied with it hinges on their attitude toward the Jewish people." They also stated that Oliver Cromwell was "financed by Jews, and helped the Jews gain power in England."
It has been widely reported that Springmeier penned literature for the Christian Patriot Organization, an allegedly white supremacist group that operated an illegal warehouse bank in Oregon. I have found no evidence of this.

Is it possible that Springmeier was framed? Sure. Not likely, but certainly possible. Given the dearth of reliable, readily available info on the case, it's difficult to discern exactly what happened here. To reach an opinion on the case, you have to rely heavily on hearsay and on Fritz's word.

I choose not to believe Springmeier because he is not credible. He already had a criminal record (for parental abduction), and was engaged in drug-related activity, before the bank robbery charges were filed. He hung around with a skinhead bank robber, which is creepy any way you look at it. He believes - or wants us to believe - that fake Illuminati cowpeople walk among us, and that Auschwitz was more a science lab than a death camp. There's just no reason to take his his word for anything. Springmeier is one odd, shady dude.

Alex Jones has a history of supporting incarcerated people who were definitely not persecuted, yet insist they were. Remember Ed and Elaine Brown, the elderly New Hampshire couple who decided that paying income tax is for fools, and were duly convicted (after an armed stand-off) of not paying their taxes? They cried foul from prison, and Alex Jones put them on the air to share their story with the world. What he did not share with the world were the couple's various allegations that Freemasons, Zionists, Illuminati members, and Jesuits had framed them. That would have seemed silly to most of his listeners, because it's fairly obvious that Freemasons and priests don't give a flying crap about a couple of goofy senior citizens in rural New England who don't feel like paying their taxes.

The same goes for Springmeier, of course. The Powers That Be aren't particularly interested in persecuting small-town Oregonians who publish underground books full of weird mind control instructions, quirky religious beliefs, and warnings about synthetic cowpeople. If they did, Alex Jones wouldn't have many guests left.

I know I'll be getting a shitstorm of emails about this, along the lines of "You don't know if Fritz is innocent or not!". Yeah, well, Jones doesn't know either. In the opening of the video, he makes it clear that he based his opinion of Springmeier's sincerity on vibes: "I didn't get any bad vibes from him, and I know that that's always the real signal." Somehow, I don't think that would stand up in court.
Also, Jones has been selling Bloodlines of the Illuminati, and it would certainly not be to his benefit to admit that he's been hawking the wares of a convicted bomber and bank robber, would it?

He was charged for criminal activities eg bomb attack, robbery and more. For sure some say bomb attack was frame up but, what excuses he came up with? He claimed he was ten miles away from the attack spot on his workplace but his patron lied of his presence, only for past backstabbing on someone, too much proof for frame up? Also was covering up accusation of sexual asault on Todd. He was running around hiding for several years and then got proven by police. Hmm....very cold blooded for an unstable person?

He presented himself as a christian counselor and teacher. But on any debate can't confess critical questions when challenged. He cheated on his 2nd wife with one of his patients and then abandoned his family, so much Christian?

Several times made prediction saying "I was told by God" but that didn't happen then said "It was vague call from God". But his actions speaks he is outta reservation of Christianity to be called by God in this materiallistic world phase, who will believe this sort of statement on an apology paper?

This last part sounds a highly bigoted or fraud person would say behind the curtain of Christianity. And as in, no source was ever being provided from him just to hear out and believe. Heres the problem, nothing makes to take him seriously anyway.
 
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azure sirius

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Speaking on the credibilty of mk ultra, ever thought the background history of its very own writter? Heres a link I recommend to read every single line intently....this might shake your preconception abit;)

http://www.eaec.org/expose/FritzSpringmeier1.htm
How VC uses him as a source then? Where he is getting this info or its just rambling? This fritz guy speaks complete nonsense at times.
 

blue sky

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It could be. But I guess this dude is twisted, not totally fraud or totally insider. The article you shared in that the speaker noticed and described it several times Fritz was incredible in double talk and covering up in a way thats most of the cases noticable in secret agents. His activities weren't Christian at all, more like a guy with a mission would do, running around various places with fake ids, criminal records are questionable for a true researcher, and still breathing when his underground books exposing elites are on CIAs webpage, yeah many people say the reference of the book were just from Osama's book collection, but still its open out there without any restrictions, thats pretty interesting to be believed as trustworthy. The speaker says:

"When we read the writings of a person, it will display what the person is thinking, unless the person is deceptive and is trying to write something he does not himself believe. In the 1995 Newsletter (March-April, Vol.4,No.3) written by Fritz, he makes the following statements on page 8:


"These five tools will help you to protect yourself from the deception of the controlled media. To summarize they are:
1. Learning to unwarp whatever we learn to get back to what is the kernel of truth in a statement.
2. Learning difference between general and specific truths.
3. Learning how probability and statistics can be used and misused.
4. Learning how truth is a balance of opposites.
5. Learning that there are different levels to understanding anything."


When I read this, red flags went up all around me. This is tricky double talk, which is normal in intelligence services, by politicians and from people in the occult."

The book of mind control is very subversive without any solid evidence. But CIA passes green card to publish it from their website, these don't add up. If this was really legit then why to open it for public? Or its just an eyewash to represent as a crazy conspiracy book? But also ngl many symbols and applications can be noticed many places. Then why to open up a real secret to the public? I guess the definition we get from that book of all that aren't totally correct, or lie, or bogus, to distract public from the actual meaning of it. The characteristics of the narrations mostly revolve around a base motto, "celebrities are MKed and has no authority over their actions, We can't do anything against them so lets get back just to cry and pray till Jesus comes."

This is tricky. Here blind and woke, both people share the same mindset to stay away from the actual truth. Blinds will just take every mainstream exposure as unicorn and trend, thats obvious but also, so called woke people will just digest whatever is out there as conspiracy, cause its base can found in the past or scattered here and there or noowhere and of course, they have a mindset of if anyone jokes about a certain conspiracy, then that has to be real so they crawl back to conspiracies without any proof, but both are pointless, cause noone is trying to think outside of the box and again, secret societies and government doing their deceptive job perfectly.
Due to my lack of knowledge, I will be speaking in general: sometimes the enemy will purposefully make another enemy look like an enemy of them so that we trust them bc they are our enemy's enemy (idk if there is a real quote that describes it perfectly so bear with "mine"). The problem is that we tend to think that some things are either 100% good and right OR 100% evil and wrong which is
wrong.
Not only for this website or the likes of it, but for everything, we shouldn't forget to balance and filter what we read and double, even triple check.

Also concerning this industry that this thread is talking about, I'm not saying that it has any ounce of good at all, but the subject here is F.S's works. Idk how guilty he is, if he is slandered or not, maybe the CIA let his works on purpose so we don't trust him which would be stupid or maybe it is really untrustworthy but yeah, always double-check and know what you can take or not.
 
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queen82

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I personally don't think so. Bang started to get hard time after that scandal to stand up so poured all his energy to rise up beetees AFAIK. Beetees was copying Block b that time alot and plagiarismed from here and there to form up and was lucky to still get a dedicated fanbase. I don't think it has anything to do with GLAM
ok thanks for your answer
 

vic

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Just my two cents, I think it's entirely possible that FS is "controlled opposition" or whatever you want to call it. They know some people are going to try and dig up their projects so instead of letting people figure out the truth, they sent out people to act as the enemy's enemy like @blue sky said. I personally believe it's lies mixed with truth. (Or truth mixed with lies, whichever it is.)

I think this way because I've already heard similar claims of Cathy O'Brien, or rather her late husband Mark Phillips. Theory is that he was actually her handler. This because:
1. he was former CIA, claims to not have known of the mind control. some say this is impossible
2. Cathy and Mark are/were dismissive of other survivors (don't search out truthful testimonies, only listen to our controlled story)
3. they managed to not get assassinated (Mark died naturally)
4. just the whole story of Mark saving and deprogramming Cathy sounds a bit weird. Mark apparently knew how to mind control
5. they took in some random girl and manipulated her?? or Mark did, I'm not claiming to know anything for sure tho

For those who don't know, Cathy's basically a mind control/NWO whistleblower. Her and Mark have written many books, search them up on YT if you want to know more. This video is a must-watch if you're interested in this case (it's what made me doubt their story):

Like @Boopdedoop said, there's still plenty of other evidence for MKU. I personally believe the survivors. Even that critique about Fritz mentions Cisco Wheeler, a multiple (=has DID) and an abuse victim. So FS should be taken with a grain whole baggage of salt, but MKU is still real. imho atleast.

@Love Life really brought out great discussion, I thought she was going to be a troll haha. There are a few new members, welcome y'all
 

vic

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I really appreciate @Love Life's alternative perception, it's really fresh and probably much needed for certain people to wake up. Just as much as it's hard for some people to accept the moral failings of their former faves, likewise it can also be hard to accept all the abuse and deception out there. Just a thought.

I generally just accept I don't and can't know most things. This is the major reason I take distance from writing in VCF now. I'm not someone who fixates on one theory, rather I explore different ideas. That's all good until my posts end up inconsistent. I value truth but it's hard to find when the topic itself is veiled in so much secrecy. Sometimes you have to let go without knowing the whole story and that's okay.
 

Love Life

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Due to my lack of knowledge, I will be speaking in general: sometimes the enemy will purposefully make another enemy look like an enemy of them so that we trust them bc they are our enemy's enemy (idk if there is a real quote that describes it perfectly so bear with "mine"). The problem is that we tend to think that some things are either 100% good and right OR 100% evil and wrong which is
wrong.
Not only for this website or the likes of it, but for everything, we shouldn't forget to balance and filter what we read and double, even triple check.

Also concerning this industry that this thread is talking about, I'm not saying that it has any ounce of good at all, but the subject here is F.S's works. Idk how guilty he is, if he is slandered or not, maybe the CIA let his works on purpose so we don't trust him which would be stupid or maybe it is really untrustworthy but yeah, always double-check and know what you can take it or not.
This!! I agree with you to some extent but smokescreen is no help either. Better know what materials fritz were emphasizing on. Connecting a total scientific process to supernatural and demonic category will only blow ones mind but, its pseudoscientific and as usual not believable for anyone, even for people like us when we raise question, for the lack of plausible requirements and sources. Taking full control over ones mind by torturing or any destructive way and reprogramming idea is mainly deviative from the practical viewpoint and less effective. If the process was to make superhuman, terrorist, laboratory workers, factory workers and other similar type people, we would find the theory believable but, for the production of some decorative prostitutes aka entertainers it has no value from both sides and no profit but more tragedy cause agencies would need to invest more money just to over and over reprogramming which will make no difference with the dedication of a money hunger entertainer or prostitute, you will find plenty of people like that everywhere where no programming needed, so applying other worldly applications are just lose of money. You should not forget the importance of money while discussing this sort of stuff.
Simply what Im saying, there is no need of mk ultra cause media and the government has already reinforced the same result from us. Also what description we get about synthetic human, sudden reference of demon anywhere and more other wordly stuff from a misleading guy who can't proof his loyalty to the religion and shakes his morality, raising question and not believeing his work is the best thing anyone can do and other intellectuals also think the same way who studied on him, cause this person is hypocritical in every movement and uses religious and demonic references he needs to scape a problem. Spreading misconception over real facts will only make us to round in a circle no matter we are average people or not, same result. Someone who comes up with sources, people also doubt but when a gibberish person rabmbling on something, connecting science to demon, hear me out, thats just nonsense and deceptive. Believing in the most comfortable theories cause that confirms our inner wish to sympathize over someone and to loose ourself just on the mercy of God, is the same result what we get from average people.
To describe him in one word, ugly to hear but everyone will find it out later,is just rubbish.
 

Love Life

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Just my two cents, I think it's entirely possible that FS is "controlled opposition" or whatever you want to call it. They know some people are going to try and dig up their projects so instead of letting people figure out the truth, they sent out people to act as the enemy's enemy like @blue sky said. I personally believe it's lies mixed with truth. (Or truth mixed with lies, whichever it is.)

I think this way because I've already heard similar claims of Cathy O'Brien, or rather her late husband Mark Phillips. Theory is that he was actually her handler. This because:
1. he was former CIA, claims to not have known of the mind control. some say this is impossible
2. Cathy and Mark are/were dismissive of other survivors (don't search out truthful testimonies, only listen to our controlled story)
3. they managed to not get assassinated (Mark died naturally)
4. just the whole story of Mark saving and deprogramming Cathy sounds a bit weird. Mark apparently knew how to mind control
5. they took in some random girl and manipulated her?? or Mark did, I'm not claiming to know anything for sure tho

For those who don't know, Cathy's basically a mind control/NWO whistleblower. Her and Mark have written many books, search them up on YT if you want to know more. This video is a must-watch if you're interested in this case (it's what made me doubt their story):

Like @Boopdedoop said, there's still plenty of other evidence for MKU. I personally believe the survivors. Even that critique about Fritz mentions Cisco Wheeler, a multiple (=has DID) and an abuse victim. So FS should be taken with a grain whole baggage of salt, but MKU is still real. imho atleast.

@Love Life really brought out great discussion, I thought she was going to be a troll haha. There are a few new members, welcome y'all
I appreciate your analysis but I already answered that before. Mk ultra is definitely real and there are past victims who are still suffering mentally and lack of government involvement. Fritzs connection with demons, rituals to a prosaic scientific experiment is just smoking gun. And where there is no source of this sort of claim from a problematic and having criminal background person, no room to believe just his words. Moreover, his activities does look of an agent with the back of cops, or maybe not, just a fraud, or just mixing lies to cover the truth, but totally not believable at all, because, its already mainstream. A mainstram celebrity and a mainstream far fetched conspiracy theory has the same brainwashing affect on people, from religious and non religious, both ways, but really not helping when we trynna know the truth. So better question the one to whom you can't frown at, for example in this forum, fritz and VC;) If we can't question why we are believeing, then theres a problem in understanding, which lead us to the same categories of sheeps.
 

Love Life

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I generally just accept I don't and can't know most things. This is the major reason I take distance from writing in VCF now. I'm not someone who fixates on one theory, rather I explore different ideas. That's all good until my posts end up inconsistent. I value truth but it's hard to find when the topic itself is veiled in so much secrecy. Sometimes you have to let go without knowing the whole story and that's okay.
Or.....start to question why you are feeling inconsistent for what invisible binding, you will find a new way out. Start to question why to believe VCF or any other similar categories website should be the ultimate reason of inconsistency, start to go beyond than accepting at first place everything to avoid inconsistence.
 
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