Blood sacrifice. Are they divine or satanic?

Lisa

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#81
Actually, the answer does satisfy me, but it doesn't explain how evil and rebellion first entered Heaven :).

Thank you not only for the remainder of your post, but also for the compassion, on your part, that I sensed while reading. No more questions, at this point, your honor.
Satan wanted to be like God...and be God. Basically he encouraged Adam and Eve into doing what he did.
Isaiah‬ ‭14:13-14‬ ‭
But you said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.​
‭‭
You’re welcome.
 





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#84
I'd be much interested in @Infinityloop 's thoughts on this question unless @AspiringSoul answers for you?
why would God subject us to that in the first place?
God created evil and made us capable of evil.
Telling people to not blame God ie 'God didnt create evil' is just a convenient mythos
1) By the very existence of evil...and God as the Creator of all things...God created evil, that is simple logic. if the bible states God did not create evil, then i question the mythos behind that statement, as in, it's intent and who it was intended to and what it's point actually was.
To what end though? While you gave a reason somewhere down in your posts (it spurs us on to be better people), no offense but I don’t think that’s a good enough reason for God to “create” evil neither is it sufficient justification for its existence as necessary. I will concede that He does take responsibility for what He allows to happen (opening chapters of Job)

As an aside, with the acquaintance that we humans have with the problem of evil and the destruction it wroughts, and God knows this obviously. So let us imagine, if you were God why would you “create” evil? Of what use is it, other than destruction? Does God delight in/find satisfaction in destruction/chaos? (Inotherwords, I need a better answer from you than the one you furnished earlier) :)

This is just my personal conclusion to this age-old question. It is impossible for God to be the source of evil or to “create” evil. Evil is inherently self-destructive. Its culmination is death. An evil person not only destroys that which surrounds him but ends up destroying himself. If God had an evil nature, it stands to reason that there would come a time when He would cease-to-be, as it’s the logical conclusion to that nature. But as we all know, God is infinite and immortal, therefore cannot cease to be or self-destruct. And the end of God means the end of all life because it is His existence that sustains all things, animate and inanimate.

Nature bears or retains the imprint of its Maker. God’s good and perfect nature is evident throughout the natural world, though much marred by the effects of the Fall. If God’s evil nature was a real thing, this imperfection would be evident in the natural world aswell.

Furthermore, aside from religion, laws of the land and whatever else, why does Man aspire to be good? He loathes the results of his evil actions on himself and what he cherishes. Where does he get this sense from, this aspiration to be good? Evil is senseless and irrational. Evil=destroy. Yeah, we rob banks, kill people, poison rivers etc because it benefits us somehow but at the heart of it, there is no real reason why we do these things. This augments my point that it is impossible for God to be the source of evil. There is no incentive for Him to be “defective”. (Job 34:10-15) Therefore, if evil cannot be “created”, its existence is thus a by-product of something.

From a Christian pov, God as the source of evil changes a lot of things;

  • It means that evil will NEVER cease, neither in this age nor the age to come, because the source of evil cannot cease to be/is immortal. Inotherwords, we can all sit tight and wait for Earth 2.0. I don’t think iam interested in living in another age that is a continuation of the current one. Death would be a much welcome release for me. We can jettison those nice biblical promises about the end of sin, death and suffering.
  • It negates the Cross and everything it stands for: the testament that it is to the goodness of God and it also renders useless man’s redemption.
  • It becomes a water-tight argument for Universal Reconciliation (@Todd). God has no justifiable grounds for condemning people to an eternal sleep or banishing them from His presence because they are evil. They are evil because they are simply taking after their father’s/creator’s nature.
  • It makes God out to be hypocritical. He expects us to overcome our evil natures while He, somehow retains His and cannot “overcome” it.
Actually, the answer does satisfy me, but it doesn't explain how evil and rebellion first entered Heaven :).
"Evil is simultaneously rational and irrational. Because evil is irrational, in its rebellion against the order that reason imposes, it seeks to be irrational and chaotic to fight reason. But implicit in this drive to be irrational is a kind of logic – a logoi of evil, which is therefore still rational. Van Til called this becoming epistemically self-conscious – evil seeks to become consistent with itself, in its inconsistency. Evil cannot be consistent with its attack on reason – to do so is a manifestation of still being rational."~ Jay Dyer

It is impossible to explain the origin of sin so as to give a reason for its existence. Yet enough may be understood concerning both the origin and the final disposition of sin to make fully manifest the justice and benevolence of God in all His dealings with evil. Nothing is more plainly taught in Scripture than that God was in no wise responsible for the entrance of sin; that there was no arbitrary withdrawal of divine grace, no deficiency in the divine government, that gave occasion for the uprising of rebellion. Sin is an intruder, for whose presence no reason can be given. It is mysterious, unaccountable; to excuse it is to defend it. Could excuse for it be found, or cause be shown for its existence, it would cease to be sin. Our only definition of sin is that given in the word of God; it is “the transgression of the law;” it is the outworking of a principle at war with the great law of love which is the foundation of the divine government.
 





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#85
The word 'evil' is not archaic, and Red already linked to the Hebrew word, which includes 'evil' among the literal, that's right, literal options. Choose whichever translation best suits your purposes, but Prophet Isaiah clearly said that God makes peace and creates evil, at least as it is sometimes translated into English, and that by the best linguists King James could afford to employ for his monumental project -his gift to English-speaking Protestants.

This is not to say, however, that God is subject to anything He creates. To me, that is a separate, side topic.
God is shown as the creator of all concepts, which he created for his pleasure.

That is why Christians sing of Adam's sin being a happy fault and necessary to god's overall plan.

Christians never this conundrum as they do not understand their own ideology which is based savior, who must have sins to die.

Adam, like Satan, must be seen as members of god's loyal opposition.

Not Original sin but Original Virtue; the way the Jews wrote the myth, and the way it was meant to be read.

Regards
DL
 





Lisa

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#87
??

Who created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?
Who sets the standards for evil if not your god?

Regards
DL
Its not that God doesn’t know what evil is...the tree opens peoples eyes to the difference. You know what is evil and you know what is good after you eat the fruit. By eating the fruit and going against God that was evil because they wanted to be like God.

He only sets the standard for good because He is good.
 





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#88
Its not that God doesn’t know what evil is...the tree opens peoples eyes to the difference. You know what is evil and you know what is good after you eat the fruit. By eating the fruit and going against God that was evil because they wanted to be like God.

He only sets the standard for good because He is good.
Whose opinion on evil do you trust above your god's?

Regards
DL
 





Axl888

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#90
Here is my take on good and evil.

So, being creations of God, angels and men are hardwired to do good and follow the will of God, this is because all of God's creation were good in the beginning. But God gave us free will, the freedom to do good or evil.

Good and evil are just consequences of free will operating under laws or commandments, so good and evil are inherent to free will.

But then, who ultimately determines which is good and evil? In Judeo-Christian world, only God, His will and commandments (laws) are absolute and universal. Therefore whoever follows and adheres to His will and commandments (laws) is doing "good", and whoever transgresses them is doing "bad or evil".

If there are no commandments (laws), how do we determine which is good or evil? We cannot! There is no good or evil if there are no commandments (laws).

So, if there is no God, then there are no commandments (laws), if there are no commandments (laws), then there is no good or evil, a version of the world which the author of this thread and the rest of the atheists in the world can be happy with.

But then, there is GOD! And the authority over the material and the spiritual world is all His, and to that I say Amen.
 





Lisa

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#91
Here is my take on good and evil.

So, being creations of God, angels and men are hardwired to do good and follow the will of God, this is because all of God's creation were good in the beginning. But God gave us free will, the freedom to do good or evil.

Good and evil are just consequences of free will operating under laws or commandments, so good and evil are inherent to free will.

But then, who ultimately determines which is good and evil? In Judeo-Christian world, only God, His will and commandments (laws) are absolute and universal. Therefore whoever follows and adheres to His will and commandments (laws) is doing "good", and whoever transgresses them is doing "bad or evil".

If there are no commandments (laws), how do we determine which is good or evil? We cannot! There is no good or evil if there are no commandments (laws).

So, if there is no God, then there are no commandments (laws), if there are no commandments (laws), then there is no good or evil, a version of the world which the author of this thread and the rest of the atheists in the world can be happy with.

But then, there is GOD! And the authority over the material and the spiritual world is all His, and to that I say Amen.
If there is no God, then there is no world or people in it..so then no one to complain that life is bad or unfair or that God is. God sure does put up with a lot from people who don’t like the way He did/does things and are under the impression that they could do better somehow then God...the ultimate in pride? Is that like telling a shop owner that you could run his business better than he could? Lol!
 





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#92
Does Yin destroy Yang?

No. Yin completes Yang.

Strange that you do not see the perfection of creation.

Regards
DL
Why does Yin need to complete Yang?

Is good insufficient without the presence of evil? I can’t believe you espouse the outrageous thought that we need evil for creation to experience some sort of balance. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised because this is what the modern mythology of evolution teaches.

Let’s imagine the Fall hadn’t happened and the race of Men hadn’t known evil/rebellion. Would your philosophical position of “yin completes yang” still hold?

Come to think of it, if we need evil to balance out good, we should then dispense with the justice system: prisons, courts etc. Evil people shouldn’t be penalized for their efforts at balancing out good.

1572272287492.png
 





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#93
Well the Christian God required his own son as a sacrifice, to die in the most horrible way. I would say that Christianity reaches the markers of a Death cult for that reason.
And witchcraft is also a part of it, with the whole 'I am protected by the blood of Christ' thing. It sounds like black magic to me.

Yes I know this is very unpopular to say and I'll probably be discarded as an anti Christian troll for it, but it's genuinely amazing to me that people don't see how these aspects of Christianity come across to those who don't believe.
Christianity is about self-sacrifice (the giving up of one's own interests or wishes in order to help others or advance a cause), not about sacrificing others. It's this Christian teaching that relieved cults around the world to abandon any sacrificial rituals. It defeated the power of Satan.

Satan demands man to shed the blood of others so he can have eternal life.

Christ shed his own blood to give man eternal life.

This couldn't be more opposite.
 





Lisa

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#94
Christianity is about self-sacrifice (the giving up of one's own interests or wishes in order to help others or advance a cause), not about sacrificing others. It's this Christian teaching that relieved cults around the world to abandon any sacrificial rituals. It defeated the power of Satan.

Satan demands man to shed the blood of others so he can have eternal life.

Christ shed his own blood to give man eternal life.

This couldn't be more opposite.
I thought Christianity was about salvation and reconciliation to God?
 





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#96
I agree.

Christians never wants to admit to their pagan roots.

If it had a moral ideology, it would not have had to grow by inquisitions and murder.

It could have convinced by argument if it had a moral ideology.

Regards
DL
Christianity was a revelation. What pagan roots are you talking of?

Christianity is a moral ideology. It is the knowledge of good and evil.

That Christianity grew by inquisition or murder is historically false. If anything Christianity grew in spite of inquisition and murder that Christians suffered themselves.
 





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#98
Depending upon which English translation one uses, the Bible, Prophet Isaiah (45:7) in particular, does not say that. In fact, he says quite the opposite, thus proving, to me, that your spiritual instincts are accurate:

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

(KJV)​

Be wary of the Judaizers. That is Torah.

The Gospel says:

Luke 6:43-44

For there is no good tree that bringeth forth evil fruit; nor an evil tree that bringeth forth good fruit. For every tree is known by its fruit.

Luke 18:19

None is good but God alone.

1 John 1:15

This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.
 





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#99
Be wary of the Judaizers. That is Torah.

The Gospel says:

Luke 6:43-44

For there is no good tree that bringeth forth evil fruit; nor an evil tree that bringeth forth good fruit. For every tree is known by its fruit.

Luke 18:19

None is good but God alone.

1 John 1:15

This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.
Welcome back. That is Torah, or more specifically one of the prophets, but it is also appended to the New Testament, however seemingly incongruously, at times, and is thus part of and helps comprise what is more universally called the "Bible." Keeping your warning in mind, and since the days of Marcion, he or she is a wise Christian indeed who knows just where the so called Judaizing ends and Christianity proper begins.:)
 





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With the risk of re-appearing as the forum's veteran dead horse flogger, I feel this is a necessary emphasis to distinguish the new and old testamentary concepts of God. The Christian concept of the divine is more Greek than Hebrew. Christians need to think more Plato and Aristotle and less Moses and Isaiah to start seeing the distortion for what it is.